CCL High Debt /what is Your Opinion

[cruisemom42]

20 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

That is why I am in favor of CCL selling HAL to a white knight who can re-brand HAL and rebuild the quality that HAL was known for.

 

For those who remember your Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade:

 

[Guest ldtr]

11 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Strictly speaking, positive cash flow occurs only after all expenses have been paid, and repayment made on maturing loans.

 

The first quarter tends to be a strong period because of the holiday season. So, a big reduction in net loss is encouraging. But, CCL has to brace for the shoulder seasons. 

 

In any case, the first quarter was profit and cash positive at the operating level, but not sufficient at the corporate level.

 

You don't need to look at the accounts to understand the perilous state of the industry. Everyone is offering discounts and promotions. The industry has expanded capacity in anticipation of years of high growth. After the pandemic, that growth has not met expectations. 

 

The good news is that the industry has not gone into an all-out price war. That would be mutually assured destruction. Instead, the industry has replied on higher onboard spending, and discrete gifts of OBC. 

 

So expect high excursion prices, and drink prices will be raised above drink packages cut-off limits.

 

HAL's problem is that despite $1 deposits and HIA promotions, prices are still at or BELOW pre-pandemic levels. HAL is struggling to hold on to its customer base. This is a branding problem.

 

That is why I am in favor of CCL selling HAL to a white knight who can re-brand HAL and rebuild the quality that HAL was known for.

 

Hope this helps. 

The industry passed the really perilous stage when it demonstrated that it could be cash flow positive on operations this last quarter.  Now that has been demonstrated it opens up the worst case but highly unlikely scenario of a restructuring if interests rates were to make it a problem in paying off debt. Now that operations are showing a profit they would be able to get the debt holders to support such a restructuring similar to what the airlines have done multiple times in the past. One that would wipe out the shareholders, convert the debt holders to equity holders and get rid of the debt, but leave the passengers whole.  That is now the worst case option. very unlikely that it come to that, but it is there if needed.

 

I expect q2 will results will show ccl to be cash flow positive overall, not just for operations. If so the business just become a matter of slowly grinding through the debt.

 

As far as someone buying HAL, I would consider it to be extremely unlikely. The other big holding companies would not be interested in any price CCL would sell it for. The equity players are going after investments in the small ship premium space.

 

On the HAL cruises I have been looking at prices are not lower than 2019. They might be for Alaska or the Caribbean, I have been looking there.

[OlsSalt]

RE: Harvesting for higher onboard spending:

 

Upcoming cruise is a Big Birthday cruise, even though we depart one day after the actual birthday. However, online I was  just offered a "Birthday Flower and Balloon" special - great price, so I purchased it. They "knew" this was a good offer to make at this time. (Scanning birthdays in their reservation forms?)

 

This also led to also feeling indulgent about signing up for the Thermal Spa, since this is an Alaska cruise - online spa reservations warned "only a few places left".  So why not I said, and grabbed one of the "last slots". 

 

Had no intention of purchase either item ahead of time, but one thing led to the next. Making up for too many months of lost cruise time, so indeed why not? My unspent travel account over the past few years of zero cruising was begging to be spent. "They "knew" that too.

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by OlsSalt

[BermudaBound2014]

20 hours ago, ldtr said:

I have found during the past few months  have been pretty much the same as pre covid on the 3 lines i have been on. Occupancy back up, ships fully staffed, entertainment back. A few changes from 2019 but really about the same as one saw during any 3 year period pre covid.

 

Considerably better than earlier in the restart.

 

You are the first (only) person I've read who is suggesting that cruising is back to the same experience as 2019. I keep reading about more and more cuts across all the major cruise lines.

 

I sailed Celebrity in January and can say, without a doubt, that cruising was not the same as pre-covid. The cutbacks were evident just about everywhere. Still a lovely experience, but not at all the same as 2019.

 

If you believe that cruising has returned to pre-covid status, more power to you!!  I tend to lean more toward realism and believe that the consequences of carrying 34 Billion dollars of debt are likely apparent to the cruise passenger.

 

PS: I was wrong about 54%. That was occupancy Q122, not for year 22. As you mentioned, the average occupancy of CCL over 2022 was only 75%. My apologies.  (Psst... see, it's not that hard to admit when wrong 😉 ). 

 

On a positive note: Quarter one 2023 posted some really good occupancy numbers. The summer numbers are good too, but fall travel is down. If you are looking for a cheap get away, this fall might be a good time.

 

Here are occupancy numbers for Q123: 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

You are the first (only) person I've read who is suggesting that cruising is back to the same experience as 2019. I keep reading about more and more cuts across all the major cruise lines.

 

I sailed Celebrity in January and can say, without a doubt, that cruising was not the same as pre-covid. The cutbacks were evident just about everywhere. Still a lovely experience, but not at all the same as 2019.

 

If you believe that cruising has returned to pre-covid status, more power to you!!  I tend to lean more toward realism and believe that the consequences of carrying 34 Billion dollars of debt are likely apparent to the cruise passenger.

 

PS: I was wrong about 54%. That was occupancy Q122, not for year 22. As you mentioned, the average occupancy of CCL over 2022 was only 75%. My apologies.  (Psst... see, it's not that hard to admit when wrong 😉 ). 

 

On a positive note: Quarter one 2023 posted some really good occupancy numbers. The summer numbers are good too, but fall travel is down. If you are looking for a cheap get away, this fall might be a good time.

 

Here are occupancy numbers for Q123: 

 

 

I guess you have not noticed that the number of complaints here on CC about the conditions on cruise ships is way down compared to last year. Now it is mostly the same people that really seem to like complaining about a cruise line. Posting pretty much the same complaints month after month. 

[Mary229]

6 minutes ago, ldtr said:

I guess you have not noticed that the number of complaints here on CC about the conditions on cruise ships is way down compared to last year. Now it is mostly the same people that really seem to like complaining about a cruise line. Posting pretty much the same complaints month after month. 

I think people forget that in 2019 there were already changes afoot.  Entertainment/enrichment needed to be revamped.  Menus and recipes were outdated and need a refresher.  If a leisure business is not forever changing it will soon fall behind. 
 

That said I have found that the ships are approaching pre Covid staffing levels but there are a large majority of that staff who are inexperienced.  The good news was CCL did meet with the state department concerning visa applications.  This is new, the old management team acquiesced to government dictates never questioning, never demanding.  
 

does anyone know if the HAL training academies have reopened? 

[scooter6139]

Lordy, another "financial doom, what do you think?" thread.  🙄

 

Can't you just go out and enjoy your cruise?  Or not.

[Guest ldtr]

55 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think people forget that in 2019 there were already changes afoot.  Entertainment/enrichment needed to be revamped.  Menus and recipes were outdated and need a refresher.  If a leisure business is not forever changing it will soon fall behind. 
 

That said I have found that the ships are approaching pre Covid staffing levels but there are a large majority of that staff who are inexperienced.  The good news was CCL did meet with the state department concerning visa applications.  This is new, the old management team acquiesced to government dictates never questioning, never demanding.  
 

does anyone know if the HAL training academies have reopened? 

People also tend to forget the number of changes from year to year even before Covid. There have been some changes from 2019 to today. But about the same as any 4 year period before Covid.

 

Funny that many of the people complaining about cutbacks currently are the same as complained about cutbacks  before covid.

 

There are 3 main things I will be looking at in the next 10q.

 

1. Occupancy

2. If they are cash flow positive

3. amount of deposits received for cruised not yet taken

 

item 3 is the best indicator of demand and the dollar value of those bookings.

[Haljo1935]

3 hours ago, ldtr said:

...There are 3 main things I will be looking at in the next 10q.

 

1. Occupancy

2. If they are cash flow positive

3. amount of deposits received for cruised not yet taken

 

item 3 is the best indicator of demand and the dollar value of those bookings.

Re item 3 - what impact, if any, do reduced deposits ($1, $25, $50) have on the analysis? Is it the number of deposits relative the number of bookings, the dollar value of those deposits relative the dollar value of the bookings, or some other calculation?

I would think a $1 deposit on a $5,000 booking would not necessarily be as valuable as a $500 deposit on that same $5000 booking. Full disclosure, I am not "schooled" in cruise finance, so $1 may carry the same weight as $500, but hope not.

Reduced deposits is an easy way to get bookings to present a ship as xx% sold - quite different than having xx% cruise value committed.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Re item 3 - what impact, if any, do reduced deposits ($1, $25, $50) have on the analysis? Is it the number of deposits relative the number of bookings, the dollar value of those deposits relative the dollar value of the bookings, or some other calculation?

I would think a $1 deposit on a $5,000 booking would not necessarily be as valuable as a $500 deposit on that same $5000 booking. Full disclosure, I am not "schooled" in cruise finance, so $1 may carry the same weight as $500, but hope not.

Reduced deposits is an easy way to get bookings to present a ship as xx% sold - quite different than having xx% cruise value committed.

One could also call it payments received for cruises not yet taken since the majority will be for cruises within 90 days of the date reported (within final payment date)  A smaller portion will be long term deposits.  It is basically a indicator of the next quarter. If it goes up it means either more people traveling or higher average fare per person. The opposite if it goes down.

 

Basically a leading indicator of the direction of the business up or down.

Edited June 21, 2023 by ldtr

[BermudaBound2014]

21 hours ago, ldtr said:

I guess you have not noticed that the number of complaints here on CC about the conditions on cruise ships is way down compared to last year. Now it is mostly the same people that really seem to like complaining about a cruise line. Posting pretty much the same complaints month after month. 

 

I have not noticed that the numbers of complaints have decreased. It seems to me that the numbers are increasing, and some of the poor reviews are coming from very loyal HAL sailors.

 

Your comment got me thinking, so I went and looked at the last 10 reviews here on CC for the Koningsdam because that's the ship I'm sailing. This obviously isn't scientific, and a very random sample, but the last 10 reviews from May of 2023 are worse than the last 10 reviews from May of 2022 (3.1 compared to 3.5). Again, not scientific, but the reviews here on CC aren't pointing to reduced complaints. IMO complaints on Social media are increasing also.

 

Maybe it's because I follow all the main cruise lines that I'm more aware of actual cuts made to the product? In the last week NCL announced they are cutting 7 major Broadway style performances (and entertainment is NCL's bread and butter imo). There was also an article not too long ago describing the cuts to RCL food quality. I believe all the lines have moved (or are trying to move toward) once a day cabin service. Many of the lines have initiated room service charges. Just yesterday Princess announced a cut to their shareholder/military OBC program. 

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I still believe that cruising is an exceptional value. The cuts on Celebrity were very evident in January. Not only was beef only on the MDR once, the lido was scaled back significantly, they initiated a $10 room service charge and eliminated the ability to order room service from the MDR menu. Cuts in quality and staffing everywhere, but it was one of my very best cruises.

 

I think expectations are important. I don't expect cruise lines to provide me the same product as they did pre-covid until they can get the debt under control. I believe the current numbers are (give or take a billion). 

 

CCL: 34 Billion in Debt

RCL: 20 Billion in Debt

NCLH: 12 Billion in Debt. 

 

And note that with 105% occupancy, RCL wasn't able to turn a profit due to rising interest rates, fuel, inflation, etc... Again, I think cruising is great. I have three booked within the next 8 months, but I will sail with expectations adjusted.

 

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, ldtr said:

One could also call it payments received for cruises not yet taken since the majority will be for cruises within 90 days of the date reported (within final payment date)  A smaller portion will be long term deposits.  It is basically a indicator of the next quarter. If it goes up it means either more people traveling or higher average fare per person. The opposite if it goes down.

 

Basically a leading indicator of the direction of the business up or down.

 

What do you mean by "majority will be for cruises within 90 days of date reported"??? Pre-covid the average booking was made 210 days prior to sailing. Truist is reporting that most people are planning even farther out post-covid. 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[Mary229]

11 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

think expectations are important. I don't expect cruise lines to provide me the same product as they did pre-covid until they can get the debt under control. I believe the current numbers are (give or take a billion). 

 

11 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

What do you mean by "majority will be for cruises within 90 days of date reported"??? Pre-covid the average booking was made 210 days prior to sailing. Truist is reporting that most people are planning even farther out post-covid

Yes, expectations are important.  And the first is people expect their dollar to perform at the level it did in 2019, that is clearly unrealistic.  I have not noted increases in fares until the last few months.  Everything I sailed on last year, this year and my first cruise next year are the same price they were offered in 2019.  
and this relates to your second comment

 

for others more attuned to the economy they are booking further out, locking in today’s prices.  This reflects inflation expectations going forward.  In my lifetime we have only witnessed one episode of deflation, that was brief and will likely not be repeated 

[Guest ldtr]

30 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I have not noticed that the numbers of complaints have decreased. It seems to me that the numbers are increasing, and some of the poor reviews are coming from very loyal HAL sailors.

 

Your comment got me thinking, so I went and looked at the last 10 reviews here on CC for the Koningsdam because that's the ship I'm sailing. This obviously isn't scientific, and a very random sample, but the last 10 reviews from May of 2023 are worse than the last 10 reviews from May of 2022 (3.1 compared to 3.5). Again, not scientific, but the reviews here on CC aren't pointing to reduced complaints. IMO complaints on Social media are increasing also.

 

Maybe it's because I follow all the main cruise lines that I'm more aware of actual cuts made to the product? In the last week NCL announced they are cutting 7 major Broadway style performances (and entertainment is NCL's bread and butter imo). There was also an article not too long ago describing the cuts to RCL food quality. I believe all the lines have moved (or are trying to move toward) once a day cabin service. Many of the lines have initiated room service charges. Just yesterday Princess announced a cut to their shareholder/military OBC program. 

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I still believe that cruising is an exceptional value. The cuts on Celebrity were very evident in January. Not only was beef only on the MDR once, the lido was scaled back significantly, they initiated a $10 room service charge and eliminated the ability to order room service from the MDR menu. Cuts in quality and staffing everywhere, but it was one of my very best cruises.

 

I think expectations are important. I don't expect cruise lines to provide me the same product as they did pre-covid until they can get the debt under control. I believe the current numbers are (give or take a billion). 

 

CCL: 34 Billion in Debt

RCL: 20 Billion in Debt

NCLH: 12 Billion in Debt. 

 

And note that with 105% occupancy, RCL wasn't able to turn a profit due to rising interest rates, fuel, inflation, etc... Again, I think cruising is great. I have three booked within the next 8 months, but I will sail with expectations adjusted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by "majority will be for cruises within 90 days of date reported"??? Pre-covid the average booking was made 210 days prior to sailing. Truist is reporting that most people are planning even farther out post-covid. 

 

 

 

oh let's see why. Since final payment is 90 days from sail date that account will hold 100% of the fares for cruises occurring within that period. Basically the next quarters worth of fares plus those that paid in full a little early. That will make up the majority of funds. You also have long term deposits from much further out, but that is a smaller amount of that funds in that balance.  

 

 I am talking about rhe topics posted in the cruise line streams themselves. Last year they were filled with topics of thing wrong with the cruiselines. This year not nearly as many. Last year the live from topics were mostly filled with problems people encountered or the lack of services. This year the opposite tend to be the norm. Most of the topics are actually about cruising and more question answer and less about problem. There are still some but far less than last year.

 

   Just out of curiosity how many cruises and cruise lines have you actually been on in the past year. You mentioned 1 Celebrity 6 months ago. Any other lines or cruises?

 

I have on 8 cruises on 3 different lines in the past year. 4 in the last 6 months. I cruise enough that I gave seen the improvements in the cruises lines from the restart through to today.

Edited June 22, 2023 by ldtr

[BermudaBound2014]

5 minutes ago, ldtr said:

I am talking about rhe topics posted in the cruise line streams themselves. Last year they were filled with topics of thing wrong with the cruiselines. This year not nearly as many. Last year the live from topics were mostly filled with problems people encountered or the lack of services. This year the opposite tend to be the norm. Most of the topics are actually about cruising and more question answer and less about problem. There are still some but far less than last year.

 

On this we will just have to agree to disagree; particularly when it comes to topics on social media which are much more negative this year than last (imo).  Last year folks were cheering about sailing on ships half full. This year the theme seems to be under-staffing and amenity cut backs.

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

6 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

On this we will just have to agree to disagree; particularly when it comes to topics on social media which are much more negative this year than last (imo).  Last year folks were cheering about sailing on ships half full. This year the theme seems to be under-staffing and amenity cut backs.

 

 

We will certainly have to disagree. Keep looking for the  negative topics as they are getting harder to find.

 

 I guess you need them to form your opinion.  I prefer making my own judgements. Will be on 5 different lines for over 125 days during this next year.  

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

36 minutes ago, ldtr said:

I have on 8 cruises on 3 different lines in the past year. 4 in the last 6 months. I cruise enough that I gave seen the improvements in the cruises lines from the restart through to today.

 

18 minutes ago, ldtr said:

We will certainly have to disagree. Keep looking for the  negative topics as they are getting harder to find.

 

 I guess you need them to form your opinion.  I prefer making my own judgements. Will be on 5 different lines for over 125 days during this next year.  

 

I have only been on one cruise this year. That isn't a secret. One persons opinion (whether you or I) is very limited, biased, and can not possibly be generalized to the larger population.

 

My claim is that cuts to the industry are still happening and cruisers might be well served to adjust expectations.

 

Your claim is that cruising has returned to the quality it was pre-covid. Not only does that claim set up unrealistic expectations, I believe it defies basic logic. 

 

I am open to hearing specific concrete examples where cruise lines have improved. NCL just announced they are cutting 9 production shows. That is a concrete example of cuts in the industry. Please provide concrete examples where the industry has improved since covid. I always welcome happy news.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[Sea42]

20 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

On this we will just have to agree to disagree; particularly when it comes to topics on social media which are much more negative this year than last (imo).  Last year folks were cheering about sailing on ships half full. This year the theme seems to be under-staffing and amenity cut backs.

 

 

I think some of the more negative comments are coming from people who have extensive cruising experience.

As someone who cruise about once every few years, I just don't notice the little differences from one cruise to the next. We recently had a great cruise on the Nieuw Statendam. There wasn't anything that made me think "Wow, that's a cutback from our last cruise". We always found things we enjoyed for dinner and we didn't ordered anything where we were told that it was unavailable. The one exception to that was specific wines in our wine package but that certainly wasn't a new experience.

So I think a lot has to do with perspective. You don't miss what you never experienced or don't remember. If we didn't enjoy the current experience, we wouldn't do it again.

[BermudaBound2014]

7 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

I think some of the more negative comments are coming from people who have extensive cruising experience.

As someone who cruise about once every few years, I just don't notice the little differences from one cruise to the next. We recently had a great cruise on the Nieuw Statendam. There wasn't anything that made me think "Wow, that's a cutback from our last cruise". We always found things we enjoyed for dinner and we didn't ordered anything where we were told that it was unavailable. The one exception to that was specific wines in our wine package but that certainly wasn't a new experience.

So I think a lot has to do with perspective. You don't miss what you never experienced or don't remember. If we didn't enjoy the current experience, we wouldn't do it again.

 

That makes perfect sense. I noticed the cut backs on my last cruise, but it didn't dampen my enjoyment. Cruising is still an exceptional value and a wonderful way to vacation (cutbacks or not). I think most people are like you, and walk away from a cruise with very pleasant memories.

 

I'm truly glad you enjoyed your last cruise and wish you many more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[Guest ldtr]

22 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

 

I have only been on one cruise this year. That isn't a secret. One persons opinion (whether you or I) is very limited, biased, and can not possibly be generalized to the larger population.

 

My claim is that cuts to the industry are still happening and cruisers might be well served to adjust expectations.

 

Your claim is that cruising has returned to the quality it was pre-covid. Not only does that claim set up unrealistic expectations, I believe it defies basic logic. 

 

I am open to hearing specific concrete examples where cruise lines have improved. NCL just announced they are cutting 9 production shows. That is a concrete example of cuts in the industry. Please provide concrete examples where the industry has improved since covid. I always welcome happy news.

 

 

 

 

If you actually read what I said is that cruise lines are now mostly back to what they were pre covid, unlike what they were like last year. There have been some changes. But those changes are about the same as what has occured in a similar 4 year period before Covid. 

 

Correspondingly the level of complaints had dropped significantly. There are some, many made by the same people.

 

The changes that one sees are permanent. They are not temporary at this stage of the restart, but more represent continued evolution of the industry.

 

If it is the same quality to day as in 2019 will be up to each individual. I have seen some things that I liked better, other things not as much. Just like if I compare 2019 to 2015 I can say the same thing.

 

If anyone ever expects the cruise industry to flip a switch and recreate what they were doing in 2019, or for that matter 2015 or 2010 they will continue to face a lifetime of disappointment  

 

 if one sets foot on a different ship or for that matter a different line they can always find things that are different, that they may not like, especially if they look hard enough.

 

 

[HappyInVan]

10 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

I think some of the more negative comments are coming from people who have extensive cruising experience.

 

 

You may be right!

 

I would like to do 50 nights a year, and build up to 100 nights. So, I'm looking very carefully at where I'll end up. Still, I have a sentimental attachment to the old-world vibes of the 'classic' HAL. Sorry to see the reduced circumstances that HAL is in.

 

As a comment on the state of the industry, I just received communication from Regent Seven Seas. I last sailed with RSS in 2011. They tracked me down after 3 address changes! Their glossy brochure was very nice. I'll be checking their itineraries which overlap with HAL.

[Guest ldtr]

5 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

You may be right!

 

I would like to do 50 nights a year, and build up to 100 nights. So, I'm looking very carefully at where I'll end up. Still, I have a sentimental attachment to the old-world vibes of the 'classic' HAL. Sorry to see the reduced circumstances that HAL is in.

 

As a comment on the state of the industry, I just received communication from Regent Seven Seas. I last sailed with RSS in 2011. They tracked me down after 3 address changes! Their glossy brochure was very nice. I'll be checking their itineraries which overlap with HAL.

Of course RSS is a considerable higher average price point. HAL had a ratio of % market share revenue/% Markey share passengers of about 2.5. RSS is around 7.5  Different experience, considerably different price point. Oceania comes in about 4 as a comparison.

[mowogo]

18 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Re item 3 - what impact, if any, do reduced deposits ($1, $25, $50) have on the analysis? Is it the number of deposits relative the number of bookings, the dollar value of those deposits relative the dollar value of the bookings, or some other calculation?

I would think a $1 deposit on a $5,000 booking would not necessarily be as valuable as a $500 deposit on that same $5000 booking. Full disclosure, I am not "schooled" in cruise finance, so $1 may carry the same weight as $500, but hope not.

Reduced deposits is an easy way to get bookings to present a ship as xx% sold - quite different than having xx% cruise value committed.

I would assume they have numbers about how many of those reduced deposits convert into cruises, and how many actually just become free income because they make the process of cancelling to be not worth the time to claw back a $1 or $25 deposit for many cruisers. Anything more than a few clicks is too much work to get back a $1 deposit.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

If anyone ever expects the cruise industry to flip a switch and recreate what they were doing in 2019, or for that matter 2015 or 2010 they will continue to face a lifetime of disappointment  

 

 

Exactly. And I would suggest that with 34 Billion dollars of new debt there will be more rapid changes between 2020-2025 than there were between 2015-2020.

 

This is why I believe adjusted expectations will lead to happier cruisers overall.

[Guest ldtr]

47 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Exactly. And I would suggest that with 34 Billion dollars of new debt there will be more rapid changes between 2020-2025 than there were between 2015-2020.

 

This is why I believe adjusted expectations will lead to happier cruisers overall.

Not really. They have debt, but they also have pricing power, which they usually do not have, because of the price increase in the rest of the travel industry and the overall demand for travel. They are increasing prices because they can. They have increased food spend by 26% per passenger per day compared to 2019. If they show overall positive cash flow this quarter they well have demonstrated their ability to weather the debt. The impact will be more about future capital spend than day to day operational spend.

 

Cruise lines have generally been pretty limited when it comes to pricing, that changed with the post covid travel industry. The cruise lines are all taking advantage of that opportunity, as they should.

 

With the exception of NCLH who has cut both on shore and shipside staffint. The level of change is really not more than previous 4 year periods. With NCLH the Broadway shows was one of their claims to fame so the decision to end those show is major. About as big as HAL decision during the 4 year period pre Covid to do away with their production shows and replace them with dance shows and BBC videos, as part of their music walk focus. Far less of the earlier changes Celebrity made with the class system.

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Not really.

 

Did you type that with a straight face? I can't tell if you are serious.

 

34 Billion in debt and you expect no difference to the cruising experience compared to when the company was flush, inflation was nil, and there wasn't a war?  Defies basic logic. 

 

Something has to give on the consumer end. I suspect some fairly major changes in the next few years.  At this point I'm going to let time tell the story.