A Flights by Celebrity error that worked to my favor.

[emmas gran]

Please block me I’m sick of you gripping and moaning, also bragging about your Great Wall Street job if it’s that good pay for the upgrades

[Bo1953]

The OP insinuated that EU261 rulings may have influenced LH's options shown,  I must admit that my knowledge of EU261 was rudimentary at worst case, yet would suggest that if the OP read the 2022 article,  they would have understood that this regulation applies, mainly, when one is at the airport ready to board OR already boarded. 

 

As such to imply that this regulation may have been a factor is not in the realm of possibility,  IMO.

 

The OP can pose this 'hypothetical' on the Cruise Air Forum here on CC where those who fly a great deal will provide them with a great foundation as to when and how EU261 can be invoked. 

 

As well,  the OP can summarize their situation there and receive great input as to the best way to proceed and/or handle the challenge, if it is thought they have a case either with the airline or X or both. 

 

bon voyage 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Bo1953

[chemmo]

OP, I genuinely understand your pain. It doesn’t happen very often in life you get something for nothing and you were happy about it then cross when it was taken away. I would have felt the same too…
 

In all our years of holidaying we have only ever had one free upgrade. We checked into the MGM in Las Vegas and were upgraded to a high rollers suite…As none gamblers to say we were surprised was an understatement. My husband was nervous at check out the next day in case we suddenly were presented with a high bill charged to our card…

 

I am glad Celebrity offered you some OBC…Try to celebrate that and put your disappointment behind you now…

 

Re using Flights by Celebrity or any other third party flight company we stopped using them long ago…

 

Quite simply we have found the money saved hasn’t outweighed the difficulties when there has been a a problem. If everything goes according to plan then, yes, you can save it is when things don’t go to plan there is an issue.
 

Over the many years we have been flying we have been affected by strikes, weather conditions, flight time changes, pre booked seating jumping around. When we have booked direct it has usually been an easy sort, when it has been through any agency (not just FBC) it has been bedlam and chaos.  Each blaming the other for not being able to rectify a situation not of our making.

 

Re airlines themselves some are definitely more customer friendly than others. In our experience Virgin has been wonderful, BA absolutely rubbish (even when booked in business). To our surprise AA was excellent when bad weather wrecked our flight plans. I say to our surprise as AA didn’t have the best reputation at the time…Lufthansa, rather inflexible and as for some of our UK budget airlines….

 

 

 

[Stockjock]

8 hours ago, chemmo said:

OP, I genuinely understand your pain. It doesn’t happen very often in life you get something for nothing and you were happy about it then cross when it was taken away. I would have felt the same too…
 

In all our years of holidaying we have only ever had one free upgrade. We checked into the MGM in Las Vegas and were upgraded to a high rollers suite…As none gamblers to say we were surprised was an understatement. My husband was nervous at check out the next day in case we suddenly were presented with a high bill charged to our card…

 

I am glad Celebrity offered you some OBC…Try to celebrate that and put your disappointment behind you now…

 

Re using Flights by Celebrity or any other third party flight company we stopped using them long ago…

 

Quite simply we have found the money saved hasn’t outweighed the difficulties when there has been a a problem. If everything goes according to plan then, yes, you can save it is when things don’t go to plan there is an issue.
 

Over the many years we have been flying we have been affected by strikes, weather conditions, flight time changes, pre booked seating jumping around. When we have booked direct it has usually been an easy sort, when it has been through any agency (not just FBC) it has been bedlam and chaos.  Each blaming the other for not being able to rectify a situation not of our making.

 

Re airlines themselves some are definitely more customer friendly than others. In our experience Virgin has been wonderful, BA absolutely rubbish (even when booked in business). To our surprise AA was excellent when bad weather wrecked our flight plans. I say to our surprise as AA didn’t have the best reputation at the time…Lufthansa, rather inflexible and as for some of our UK budget airlines….

 

 

 

I have a different kind of upgrade story from decades ago.

I was a business major, and my father (RIP) was a professor of law & economics.  But I wasn't quite ready to sit behind a desk, so I took a job with the San Diego Community College Police at the age of 19 (18 years of age minimum) and then San Diego PD at the age of 22 (21 years of age minimum).  

After doing a stint in law enforcement, I started interviewing with some of the big Wall Street firms.  I was hired by my current employer.  My then manager said that I was the first person he had interviewed who was wearing a 9mm pistol at the time of the interview.

Back then, all of the training was in the World Trade Center.  My employer provided me with a roundtrip economy ticket on American Airlines, San Diego to NYC, where I'd train for a couple of months or so (I think it's shorter now).

I didn't have a lot of business attire, but I did have a couple of suits for court appearances and such.  I wore one of them on the flight to New York.  

As I boarded the plane, the gate agent pulled me aside and I thought I did something wrong.  She said, "You don't look like you belong on coach.  I'm upgrading you to First Class!  Have a nice flight!"

Candidly, I barely knew what that meant, as I'd never flown First Class before.  I was pretty much broke, so when they offered me free drinks, I declined because I didn't have a lot of money to pay for them.  But that was a really nice gesture from AA, even if I didn't appreciate it quite as much at the time.

But of course, if Flights by Celebrity had been involved, I'm pretty sure they would have found a way to cancel that upgrade and move me back to economy, lol.

In this photo, I'm the guy in the red tie with some of the other trainees, 4th from the left, with the scraggly mustache, which was pretty much obligatory for police at the time.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Stockjock

[Stockjock]

Here's a response I just received from Celebrity that is even more irritating.

I won't rehash the story, you can scroll up to read it.  But...

Lufthansa told me that they had set me up to be rebooked on the business class flights that Flights by Celebrity cancelled, only in economy.  While I wasn't thrilled with this, especially since there were only about 2 seats together near the extreme back restroom, I told them fine and asked what I needed to do.  They said that the change was in place, but just needed to be approved by Flights by Celebrity,

I called Flights by Celebrity and they apparently sent the approval request, which I figured was the least they could do after screwing up my business class upgrade (i.e. later economy flight, more crowded).  Here's the reply that I received...

 

Dear Stockjock,

I hope this email finds you well.

 

I am reaching out to you regarding a schedule change you requested. A case was opened to obtain approval from the airline. However, we have received notification that the change made to the original flights is considered a minor change. As a result, the airline cannot approve the request, and any changes made will be considered voluntary changes, subject to prevailing rates. Please let me know if this is something you would like to proceed with, and I will be glad to assist you.

 

Please feel free to contact us if you need further assistance.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Hector Porras

GTS Executive Escalation

Email hectorporras@rccl.com

Edited June 25, 2023 by Stockjock

[mahdnc]

30 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

Here's a response I just received from Celebrity that is even more irritating.

I won't rehash the story, you can scroll up to read it.  But...

Lufthansa told me that they had set me up to be rebooked on the business class flights that Flights by Celebrity cancelled, only in economy.  While I wasn't thrilled with this, especially since there were only about 2 seats together near the extreme back restroom, I told them fine and asked what I needed to do.  They said that the change was in place, but just needed to be approved by Flights by Celebrity,

I called Flights by Celebrity and they apparently sent the approval request, which I figured was the least they could do after screwing up my business class upgrade (i.e. later economy flight, more crowded).  Here's the reply that I received...

 

Dear Stockjock,

I hope this email finds you well.

 

I am reaching out to you regarding a schedule change you requested. A case was opened to obtain approval from the airline. However, we have received notification that the change made to the original flights is considered a minor change. As a result, the airline cannot approve the request, and any changes made will be considered voluntary changes, subject to prevailing rates. Please let me know if this is something you would like to proceed with, and I will be glad to assist you.

 

Please feel free to contact us if you need further assistance.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Hector Porras

GTS Executive Escalation

Email hectorporras@rccl.com

 

Unfortunately, the email is the correct response--as you already know--but it should have been in place from the beginning which would have eliminated this rags to riches to rags story.  It was a lot of work on your part only to end up in the same place that you started (and a 6am outbound flight at that!).  I am sorry all this happened to you.  Hopefully your cruise will go a lot better when the time comes.  If it's possible, give your mind a much needed rest today.  Or give your dog a hug.  If you don't have one, you should get one.  They love you no matter what class you are flying in.

Edited June 25, 2023 by mahdnc

[cruisequeen4ever]

Goodness, that took way too much time for you to deal with. It’s sad that you had the chance to taste what it would be like to have an ideal flight time and in business class, only to have it ripped out of your mouth. It is true that booking flights through the cruise line can add a headache like you experienced, or it can save a headache if you missed the ship and needed to be flown to the next port or if the ship was delayed getting back into Port at the end of the cruise, or it can just be uneventful because nothing went wrong. After my last experience, booking air through the cruise line, I decided that if the cost was similar, I would just book through the airlines because it is easier to be able to just deal with one company instead of being sent back-and-forth between two. I had experienced a schedule change that was very stressful when the cruise line was not being helpful, and the airline was sending me back to the cruise line to deal with it. 

[Stockjock]

12 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

Unfortunately, the email is the correct response--as you already know--but it should have been in place from the beginning which would have eliminated this rags to riches to rags story.  It was a lot of work on your part only to end up in the same place that you started (and a 6am outbound flight at that!).  I am sorry all this happened to you.  Hopefully your cruise will go a lot better when the time comes.  If it's possible, give your mind a much needed rest today.  Or give your dog a hug.  If you don't have one, you should get one.  They love you no matter what class you are flying in.

I'll be pushing for Flights by Celebrity to resign from the return ticket.  Twice, they seemed to be willing to do so, but it hasn't been done.  Once that's done, *if* that's done, I should be able to modify the ticket.

I do understand the quite predictable replies from some as to how you must get exactly the flight that was originally chosen, but under the circumstances, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that I be able to fix this on my own, or try to do so, at least to some extent.  Also, bear in mind that 2 Flights by Celebrity reps recommended that I allow Lufthansa to take over the reservation, so I will at least attempt to follow their suggestion.

The outbound flight is fine, so will leave it as-is.  Obviously, the last time I'd use Flights by Celebrity.

[Stockjock]

7 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

Goodness, that took way too much time for you to deal with. It’s sad that you had the chance to taste what it would be like to have an ideal flight time and in business class, only to have it ripped out of your mouth. It is true that booking flights through the cruise line can add a headache like you experienced, or it can save a headache if you missed the ship and needed to be flown to the next port or if the ship was delayed getting back into Port at the end of the cruise, or it can just be uneventful because nothing went wrong. After my last experience, booking air through the cruise line, I decided that if the cost was similar, I would just book through the airlines because it is easier to be able to just deal with one company instead of being sent back-and-forth between two. I had experienced a schedule change that was very stressful when the cruise line was not being helpful, and the airline was sending me back to the cruise line to deal with it. 

When I do a cruise, I always arrive at least 24 hours early, and if it's a European or Asian cruise, typically 3 days early.  While it's possible to miss a cruise, I try to allow for enough time for Plan B, just in case.

Lately, I've been buying insurance for most cruises, and whether I do that or don't, my Amex Platinum also has some nice options in the event of flight delay or cancellations, as long as I put all flights, or even just the taxes in the event of award travel, on the card.  That also includes free medical air evacuation in the event of a medical emergency at sea.

Here's a link on a story where booking w/Amex Platinum saved the traveler nearly $300,000.  And they only put the taxes on that card, as it was award travel.

https://viewfromthewing.com/know-benefits-amex-platinum-medical-evacuation-claim-award-ticket-saves-275000/

[jagoffee]

Stockjock, when is your cruise?  Have you already made your final payment?

[pmarrsouth]

FBC saved you a headache as had they not intervened there would have been quite a commotion when you turned up to ATH to check-in (web checkin would have thrown an error) for a UNITED flight, before the staff there returned your travel party to Y on that leg

 

—

 

Also to the person who seemed to have used FBC to save $5 on 2 FC tickets, rather than booking directly, that is an interesting choice 

[mahdnc]

22 minutes ago, pmarrsouth said:

 

Also to the person who seemed to have used FBC to save $5 on 2 FC tickets, rather than booking directly, that is an interesting choice 

 

You mis-read my post. I didn't book through FBC to save $5 although that was the difference in the price. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by mahdnc

[Stockjock]

2 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Stockjock, when is your cruise?  Have you already made your final payment?

Yes, final payment was a couple of weeks ago.  I see where you're going & it's a good thought, but I'm beyond that point, unfortunately.

[jagoffee]

3 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Yes, final payment was a couple of weeks ago.  I see where you're going & it's a good thought, but I'm beyond that point, unfortunately.

If you have not already, you can look for other flight options and at least evaluate paying the $200 pp to get a full cash refund.  I did this once when I received a significant size flight credit on AA from a different trip.

[Stockjock]

26 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

If you have not already, you can look for other flight options and at least evaluate paying the $200 pp to get a full cash refund.  I did this once when I received a significant size flight credit on AA from a different trip.

Probably not worth it, but how did you get that flight credit?'

Also, do you know if 1 leg can be cancelled for $100 per person, leaving the other flight in place?

[jagoffee]

10 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Probably not worth it, but how did you get that flight credit?'

Also, do you know if 1 leg can be cancelled for $100 per person, leaving the other flight in place?

I received a credit from a totally different trip that I had booked directly with AA that I cancelled. The cancellation was my choice, so I received a credit instead of cash refund.  
 

The numbers worked out for me, so you might want to at least check out all the direct option

s as it gives you a way to get out of the CA. Even if it costs you a little more it gives you the flights that you want.  Maybe Lufthansa will make another change.
 

 By the way, since your “screwed up flight” was a Lufthansa flight operated by United, it added a level of complication to your situation.  The situation involved CA, Lufthansa, and United.  I have found CA to be a good option on Business Class, but flight changes scare the heck out of me. Although you paid for your flights, Celebrity had most likely not paid the airlines for your flights.  

 

Unfortunately you have to reprice the total trip with a round trip.  CA would  need to cancel the complete reservation and then rebook both ways at the current price.  For instance if you book one way and wish to book the return later, it is a cancel and rebook both ways at the current price.  
 

Just in case you did not know.  You can do a dummy booking and see what flight option and pricing is currently available for your cruise.  Of course, it would cost $200 to take advantage of any savings.  I would be inclined to book directly with the Airline unless it was significantly less expensive.

 

Good luck.  

[Stockjock]

25 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

I received a credit from a totally different trip that I had booked directly with AA that I cancelled. The cancellation was my choice, so I received a credit instead of cash refund.  
 

The numbers worked out for me, so you might want to at least check out all the direct option

s as it gives you a way to get out of the CA. Even if it costs you a little more it gives you the flights that you want.  Maybe Lufthansa will make another change.
 

 By the way, since your “screwed up flight” was a Lufthansa flight operated by United, it added a level of complication to your situation.  The situation involved CA, Lufthansa, and United.  I have found CA to be a good option on Business Class, but flight changes scare the heck out of me. Although you paid for your flights, Celebrity had most likely not paid the airlines for your flights.  

 

Unfortunately you have to reprice the total trip with a round trip.  CA would  need to cancel the complete reservation and then rebook both ways at the current price.  For instance if you book one way and wish to book the return later, it is a cancel and rebook both ways at the current price.  
 

Just in case you did not know.  You can do a dummy booking and see what flight option and pricing is currently available for your cruise.  Of course, it would cost $200 to take advantage of any savings.  I would be inclined to book directly with the Airline unless it was significantly less expensive.

 

Good luck.  

It looks like they will release the ticket from their control, as they asked me today if I want them to do this, and I said that I'd like that.  If this happens, I can try to take advantage of Lufthansa's offer to move the flight to a more favorable time.  My business class offer is history, which sucks, but at least I would be able to talk with the airline directly.

[mahdnc]

27 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

It looks like they will release the ticket from their control, as they asked me today if I want them to do this, and I said that I'd like that.  If this happens, I can try to take advantage of Lufthansa's offer to move the flight to a more favorable time.  My business class offer is history, which sucks, but at least I would be able to talk with the airline directly.

 

That is interesting that FBC will release the ticket which is good for you.  I have never heard of that being done before.

[Stockjock]

45 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

That is interesting that FBC will release the ticket which is good for you.  I have never heard of that being done before.

Dear Stockjock,

I trust you are doing fine.

 

I am following up on your case to prevent you from paying prevailing rates, and there was a request sent to our ticketing team to release the flights and give control to the airline, so they can make the changes for you. However, if this is something that you will be doing, I do inform you that by doing that, we will not have control over your tickets, and to assure arrival or schedule changes made by the airline, you will have to talk to them directly, and we will not be able to assist you. I hope you take the right decision in this situation.

 

Feel free to contact us if you need further assistance

My reply...

I think that under the circumstances, this would be a good idea. I assume that there would be no penalty, and I also assume that my pricing would not change. 

[jagoffee]

Congratulations.  It seems like a good idea to me.  Assuming you have not be able to find flights on a different airline that is better for you.  Then you could pay the $200 and get a cash refund and rebook with a different airline.  

[Stockjock]

25 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Congratulations.  It seems like a good idea to me.  Assuming you have not be able to find flights on a different airline that is better for you.  Then you could pay the $200 and get a cash refund and rebook with a different airline.  

I think that I could stay with Lufthansa, if they allow me to make the sort of changes they discussed with me, for no charge.  Their pricing is not unreasonable.  As mentioned, business class is sadly out the window, but they were also discussing some free seat assignments or free meal credits, so we'll see what is or isn't on the table.  An obvious issue I've encountered is that people say one thing and then do something else.  Offers are put on the table and then, magically, vanish.

Not sure if they're releasing the first leg from FbC or not (outbound).  I don't have any issues with those flights, so I don't care if they release them. 

As a side note, I booked flights for a European cruise on MSC.  Return flights from Europe to SoCal were pretty bad, but, I found a one-way to SFO (rather than SAN) for $223 per person with a lot of restrictions.  For roughly only $200 more, I was able to make the ticket fully refundable, add premium seats with more recline and more leg room, priority boarding, and add a 2nd free checked bag.  So I figured somewhere around $450 out the door for all of that was a good deal.  I was able to secure a short-hop domestic flight from SFO to SAN for under $100 using flight credits.

Some of the reviews on TAP Air Portugal aren't great, but I do know that they fly newer planes and have an excellent safety record.  If something goes wrong, I can possibly lean on Amex Platinum and/or EU261 and/or travel insurance (if I buy it), and we have an extra travel day baked into our plans, just in case.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Stockjock

[Bo1953]

14 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Congratulations.  It seems like a good idea to me.  Assuming you have not be able to find flights on a different airline that is better for you.  Then you could pay the $200 and get a cash refund and rebook with a different airline.  

That is, if the ticket is refundable...

 

bon voyage

[Stockjock]

1 hour ago, Bo1953 said:

That is, if the ticket is refundable...

 

bon voyage

Unignored, I appreciate the prior explanation.

[Stockjock]

FWIW, just got another reply from Celebrity...

 

I hope this email finds you well. On behalf of Flights by Celebrity, I would like to extend my sincerest apologies for the frustration and inconvenience you and Ms. X experienced regarding your return schedule change flights from Athens (ATH) to San Diego (SAN). We deeply regret the series of errors and miscommunications that occurred.

 

I want to assure you that your feedback and concerns have been taken very seriously, and we are actively investigating the issues you raised. It is disheartening to learn that our service failed to simplify your travel experience as intended, and instead caused significant frustration and stress. This is not the level of service we aim to provide, and we deeply regret the disappointment you and Ms. X experienced.

 

Regarding the confusion surrounding the changes to your flights, I apologize for the contradictory information you received from our representatives and Lufthansa. And we are committed to addressing this matter to prevent similar occurrences in the future. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by the cancellation of your business class upgrade and the subsequent reissuance of the original ticket. It is truly regrettable that our actions resulted in the loss of such a valuable and exciting opportunity for you and Ms. X.

 

Furthermore, I would like to express my gratitude for your patience and perseverance during your numerous calls to our customer service team. It is understandable that the extended duration and multiple disconnects were extremely frustrating. We acknowledge the importance of efficient and effective customer support, and we are actively working to improve our processes and provide our agents with the necessary tools to better assist our valued customers.

 

I do want to confirm that if you would like us to give control to the airline, there will be no penalties or price difference on our end.

 

Once again, please accept our most sincere apologies for the inconveniences you and Ms. X experienced. We truly value your feedback and the opportunity to rectify the situation. We remain committed to providing you with a smooth and enjoyable travel experience on your upcoming cruise with Celebrity Infinity.

 

Thank you for your understanding, and we look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Warm regards,

And my reply...

Unless you have any other suggestions, relinquishing control of the return flight seems to be the best course of action, as I can then address the situation directly with Lufthansa.

[mahdnc]

2 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

FWIW, just got another reply from Celebrity...

 

I hope this email finds you well. On behalf of Flights by Celebrity, I would like to extend my sincerest apologies for the frustration and inconvenience you and Ms. X experienced regarding your return schedule change flights from Athens (ATH) to San Diego (SAN). We deeply regret the series of errors and miscommunications that occurred.

 

I want to assure you that your feedback and concerns have been taken very seriously, and we are actively investigating the issues you raised. It is disheartening to learn that our service failed to simplify your travel experience as intended, and instead caused significant frustration and stress. This is not the level of service we aim to provide, and we deeply regret the disappointment you and Ms. X experienced.

 

Regarding the confusion surrounding the changes to your flights, I apologize for the contradictory information you received from our representatives and Lufthansa. And we are committed to addressing this matter to prevent similar occurrences in the future. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by the cancellation of your business class upgrade and the subsequent reissuance of the original ticket. It is truly regrettable that our actions resulted in the loss of such a valuable and exciting opportunity for you and Ms. X.

 

Furthermore, I would like to express my gratitude for your patience and perseverance during your numerous calls to our customer service team. It is understandable that the extended duration and multiple disconnects were extremely frustrating. We acknowledge the importance of efficient and effective customer support, and we are actively working to improve our processes and provide our agents with the necessary tools to better assist our valued customers.

 

I do want to confirm that if you would like us to give control to the airline, there will be no penalties or price difference on our end.

 

Once again, please accept our most sincere apologies for the inconveniences you and Ms. X experienced. We truly value your feedback and the opportunity to rectify the situation. We remain committed to providing you with a smooth and enjoyable travel experience on your upcoming cruise with Celebrity Infinity.

 

Thank you for your understanding, and we look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Warm regards,

And my reply...

Unless you have any other suggestions, relinquishing control of the return flight seems to be the best course of action, as I can then address the situation directly with Lufthansa.

 

Wow.  I certainly think they hit the mark as far as acknowledging your grievances and a heartfelt apology.  However the OBC credit amount is in dispute still? 

 

I think you are going to get a Christmas card from them at the end of the year.