10% VAT tax added to all "free at sea drinks" on NCL while in Med?

[joandy2425]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

I can't count the number of times I've read on Cruise Critic statements like "I think people should be paid a living wage" and "I'm OK paying more if it means people are properly compensated." And yet, it seems when the reality sets in on what paying people more actually costs them, people balk at it. Be careful what you wish for. Did you think all of that "I'm OK paying more" wasn't actually going to cost you anything? Like @graphicguy says, it sounds like some people shouldn't cruise at all, or perhaps cruise less frequently. If a VAT is going to be a "make it or break it" item for you, then simply take one cruise a year instead of two, etc. Or drop the Premium+, FAS Plus, etc. Plenty of ways to budget for this, trust me.

 

I agree to a certain extent but when there's a lack of consistency and, in fact, knowledge from NCL staff it makes it tricky to know what charges to expect.  Whether its a cruise or any other type of holiday, I don't think its a stretch to expect people to want to have a rough idea of what its going to cost.

 

I had a call yesterday from our Cruise Consultant who told me she couldn't give me a full explanation of how/why the VAT is charged.  To be clear, I absolutely was not making any complaint, just asked for an explanation to understand it better.  Her understanding was that it only applied in Spanish waters and she didn't think it would be charged in France.  She had apparently just come from a meeting which was covering the topic as they have had lots of correspondence about it.....the upshot being that they "are trying to iron out the kinks".  When we discussed future cruises she finished up by saying "hopefully it'll be resolved by then and VAT won't be an issue".  Price hikes incoming I imagine!

[DCGuy64]

Just now, joandy2425 said:

Price hikes incoming I imagine!

Yup, if NCL ends up rolling the VAT into the cost of the cruise, price hikes are all but inevitable. But never fear, people won't worry because now VAT will be included/hidden so it'll be "free." LOL

[joandy2425]

Just now, DCGuy64 said:

Yup, if NCL ends up rolling the VAT into the cost of the cruise, price hikes are all but inevitable. But never fear, people won't worry because now VAT will be included/hidden so it'll be "free." LOL

 

Indeed!  If only NCL had been more up front about it, guests would have known to expect it and would have paid it without even thinking about it.  Anyhoo, time to get the next cruise researched and booked 😀

[steamboats]

9 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

Agreed.

 

I wonder whether this is due to a difference in rules between countries.

 

Previously the VAT charged has mainly been by Spain, whereas this on (I believe although the threads are getting a bit confused in my mind) is from France. Maybe in France you have to charge the VAT on the service charge but you don’t in Spain.

 

Im speculating now though.

 

I haven´t read anything about mandatory service charges in France yet. But I remember that I had notices about the Italian VAT with RCI and recently with Oceania. But Italy was always pretty inconsistent.

 

steamboats

[steamboats]

36 minutes ago, RD64 said:

NCL has been having problems since the Spring - first with Greece and then Canada - with regards to not being able to sell alcohol, unless it was part of a drink package. Canada I believe was certain bars only, etc.

 

Also Italy, UK or Gibraltar... The only cruise line saying that there are "local" taxes (which there aren´t in Italy) and not selling alcohol or even other non alcoholic beverages.

 

16 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I think maybe you meant to say "specific" to NCL, but that is not accurate. Someone who sailed with Celebrity reported also being charged VAT.

 

RCI/Celebrity are charging the VAT in Spanish waters (or for the whole duration of the cruise when there is no non EU port). But they are charging only when you buy a single drink and not for drinks ordered with a package. That´s an NCL problem.

 

14 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yup, if NCL ends up rolling the VAT into the cost of the cruise, price hikes are all but inevitable. But never fear, people won't worry because now VAT will be included/hidden so it'll be "free." LOL

 

We Europeans have to pay VAT on our cruise price (and yes, I don´t "see" as it´s included in the cruise fare) and therefore the European cruise fares are usually higher than the same cruise sold in the US. Some Europeans do book with an US TA to get a cheaper US price.

 

steamboats

[yakcruiser]

Don't be surprised if NCL doesn't drop the FAS drinks package and make people purchase like the other mass market lines. Think about it, their ships are running close to 100% capacity now and a bean counter would argue that there is no need to give away something for free that you can charge for. And they could drop the initial price of the cruise $50 a day to get people to book and they would come out ahead. Added bonus would be most people would be so mad they would not notice VAT charges baked in.

[insidecabin]

55 minutes ago, yakcruiser said:

Don't be surprised if NCL doesn't drop the FAS drinks package and make people purchase like the other mass market lines. Think about it, their ships are running close to 100% capacity now and a bean counter would argue that there is no need to give away something for free that you can charge for. And they could drop the initial price of the cruise $50 a day to get people to book and they would come out ahead. Added bonus would be most people would be so mad they would not notice VAT charges baked in.

 

FAS has been "take all" for so long many forget that when it started its was a pick and mix.

 

Depending on cabin grade you could pick which element(s) you wanted to take.

 

Prices are driven by what people are willing pay not what it costs to run a cruise.

 

NCL has needed FAS to be cheap to attract bookings, UK they have been offering at 50% off.

 

The issue for NCL is how to make the product more attractive not less attractive

 

Poor communication, negative press and extra on board costs will just get some  people looking elsewhere.

 

NCL had gone a long way in throwing off being the  nickle and dime leaders in the market

 

It was possible to book a cruise, prepay your grats and fill your needs with FAS resulting in a zero extra spend all inclusive cruise.

 

Still going to be interesting when Regent start asking for money off their customers.

 

The UK line to watch will be Marella as their basic price is all inclusive and operate on the core Spain France Italy route.

 

 

 

 

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, insidecabin said:

 

FAS has been "take all" for so long many forget that when it started its was a pick and mix.

 

Depending on cabin grade you could pick which element(s) you wanted to take.

Not so for North America bookings. 

You can accept the whole package but you have the option to decline either or both of the  specialty dining and open bar components of FAS and thereby pay the gratuity charge for the declined components of FAS.

We don't drink alcoholic beverages so we decline the open bar but keep the specialty dining.

[insidecabin]

17 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Not so for North America bookings. 

You can accept the whole package but you have the option to decline either or both of the  specialty dining and open bar components of FAS and thereby pay the gratuity charge for the declined components of FAS.

We don't drink alcoholic beverages so we decline the open bar but keep the specialty dining.

That's how it is now(because of the option to decline paying service).

 

The default is you get all.

 

It used to be you had to choose from the options on the promotion.

 

Eg It would be 1 choice for inside then some time the extra promotion was take 2. 

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, insidecabin said:

It used to be you had to choose from the options on the promotion.

And you still do. It's now a four-pronged promotion but you still have the ability to decline the dining and/or beverage components.

4 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

The default is you get all.

As above, no.

 

In addition you have the option of a Sail Away booking in most categories with only the excursion credit included.

 

So it's not 'the default is all you get" as you claim. There are multiple ways to skin the cat and pay less than the full package price even if the exact details of how FAS is structured has undergone changes from the original version.

 

To me, the airfare promotion is far worse. We most often cruised from our home port, an hour's drive away so we would not have any use for the "free airfare for the second guest" promotion. The cost of that is baked into the base fare and there is absolutely no way to decline it and receive any fare reduction.

[KeithJenner]

What insidecabin is saying is that these days everyone gets all the free at sea promos offered. Yes, they can decline some if they want, but you can have them all whatever cabin you are in.

 

A few years ago it was usually only suites that got everything. We usually book balconies and for many years we usually had the choice of 2 of the 4 options. I believe that lower level cabins (insidecabin would probably be able to confirm this) often only got one of the options.

[Girr]

21 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

I haven´t read anything about mandatory service charges in France yet. But I remember that I had notices about the Italian VAT with RCI and recently with Oceania. But Italy was always pretty inconsistent.

 

steamboats

On the 2 Oct sailing from Marseille there were letters in the cabins stating while in French waters they would be imposing the required 20% VAT on purchases and alcoholic beverages and 10% VAT for non-alcoholic (even with FAS beverage).  Also included 10% on non-FAS food (my interpretation).

 

I don't have a problem with the collection of VAT - it's their laws.  What I do have a problem with is the lack of consistency.  When I sailed in July on the Epic my cruise originated in Rome (loop to Barcelona) and we were charged 10% VAT on all beverages.  Up until that point VAT was only being collected in Barcelona, not the entire cruise.  During this time period everything was a mess.  If you remember there was at least one cruise right before mine while in Livorno only offered beer and wine while in port (this was an overnight in Livorno!).  Some sailings in Greece if you didn't have FAS you couldn't get a drink!  

 

Here on CC people reported this was all being resolved by August - now as to their source?? 

 

Well, it's October and there's still no answer.  Some people report being charged.  Others report not.  It appears on a MED cruise if your cruise leaves EU waters you may, or may not, be charged VAT.  You'd think NCL corporate could figure this out. 

 

I know I'm really cynical, but in some ways I wonder if NCL isn't loving all this upheaval and hoping people cut back on their consumption.  With FAS (and yes you have the option to decline!), I imagine their alcohol purchases are significantly increasing - just two beverages a day alone cover the cost of the service fee.  But for the most part I'd say most cruisers aren't stopping at two or three a day.  Then with the premium package people - imagine that VAT bill after 10+ drinks a day of the "good stuff" times 9 to 14 days at 20%!

 

I'm sailing again on the Epic soon, and I just hope we get some consistency soon.  

Edited October 5, 2023 by Girr
Adding info.

[DCGuy64]

48 minutes ago, Girr said:

don't have a problem with the collection of VAT - it's their laws.  What I do have a problem with is the lack of consistency. 

I'd rather it be inconsistent than consistent. If it's consistent, I might be charged EVERY time. If it's inconsistent, I might not be charged every time so I save money. 😉 (But I do get what you're saying...)

[steamboats]

3 hours ago, Girr said:

On the 2 Oct sailing from Marseille there were letters in the cabins stating while in French waters they would be imposing the required 20% VAT on purchases and alcoholic beverages and 10% VAT for non-alcoholic (even with FAS beverage).  Also included 10% on non-FAS food (my interpretation).

 

The part of my post you quoted was referring to what is done on land in France ... in France there are no mandatory service charges which can be taxed with a VAT. I know what NCL is doing.

 

steamboats 

[Girr]

46 minutes ago, steamboats said:

 

The part of my post you quoted was referring to what is done on land in France ... in France there are no mandatory service charges which can be taxed with a VAT. I know what NCL is doing.

 

steamboats 

  No what I was quoting from is a copy of the letter left in every cabin this week. 

[steamboats]

Just now, Girr said:

  No what I was quoting from is a copy of the letter left in every cabin this week. 

I was referring to my post you quoted 😉.

 

steamboats 

[Russiamomm]

7 hours ago, Girr said:

On the 2 Oct sailing from Marseille there were letters in the cabins stating while in French waters they would be imposing the required 20% VAT on purchases and alcoholic beverages and 10% VAT for non-alcoholic (even with FAS beverage).  Also included 10% on non-FAS food (my interpretation).

 

I don't have a problem with the collection of VAT - it's their laws.  What I do have a problem with is the lack of consistency.  When I sailed in July on the Epic my cruise originated in Rome (loop to Barcelona) and we were charged 10% VAT on all beverages.  Up until that point VAT was only being collected in Barcelona, not the entire cruise.  During this time period everything was a mess.  If you remember there was at least one cruise right before mine while in Livorno only offered beer and wine while in port (this was an overnight in Livorno!).  Some sailings in Greece if you didn't have FAS you couldn't get a drink!  

 

Here on CC people reported this was all being resolved by August - now as to their source?? 

 

Well, it's October and there's still no answer.  Some people report being charged.  Others report not.  It appears on a MED cruise if your cruise leaves EU waters you may, or may not, be charged VAT.  You'd think NCL corporate could figure this out. 

 

I know I'm really cynical, but in some ways I wonder if NCL isn't loving all this upheaval and hoping people cut back on their consumption.  With FAS (and yes you have the option to decline!), I imagine their alcohol purchases are significantly increasing - just two beverages a day alone cover the cost of the service fee.  But for the most part I'd say most cruisers aren't stopping at two or three a day.  Then with the premium package people - imagine that VAT bill after 10+ drinks a day of the "good stuff" times 9 to 14 days at 20%!

 

I'm sailing again on the Epic soon, and I just hope we get some consistency soon.  

I agree completely with this.  I was on a B2B on the Breakaway in the spring.  The TA from NY to Rome and then a 10 night round trip Rome through Italy, Greece and France.  On the TA we had the drink package.    We had to pay VAT in Spanish ports and waters, but nowhere else.  And after we got past a certain point, the casinos opened and there was no more VAT charged on drinks,  In Livorno we could only get beer or wine - no VAT.  No VAT in France.  
 

On the second leg I did it solo and went cheap.  I didn’t have a drink package.  Huge mistake.  In Greece I couldn’t even buy a soda, much less an alcohol drink.  Those with the drink package paid no VAT - it was business as usual.  I made friends with people with a drink package.  😂. 
 

another thing I don’t get is that the casino and duty free shops opened every night.  Presumably because we were in international waters.  On these recent cruises where VAT is charged for the whole cruise, does the casino stay closed?

 

I’m on the Epic for a TA on December 1.  I hope they get this all straightened out by then.

[schildiams]

Can we get a VAT  refund for taxes on drinks?

[RD64]

2 minutes ago, schildiams said:

Can we get a VAT  refund for taxes on drinks?

No

[Alba1]

We have just completed our first cruise with NCL on the Epic from Marseille on 25th for 7 nights and it will probably be our last.

We did enjoy the cruise and the ship very much and the food on board was fantastic.

The big downside was we were charged Stealth Vat charges by NCL for EVERYTHING we bought on board. We had the free at sea package with unlimited drinks etc but were charged 20% vat on every drink that we ordered even though it was meant to be all inclusive. So for example, two wines at $10 dollars each which equals $20 should be free on the drinks package but a charge of $4 tax was added to our bill. This happened every time for every drink ordered. To make matters worse, if we were in port another 10% vat charge was added on all purchases making a total of 30% vat charge. How can they justify that? We were not notified of these stealth taxes before our cruise and the que at customer service with complaints showed that fellow passengers were not informed of these charges either. We spoke to a couple that had been on the ship the week before and did not have these charges but were getting the charges on their second week. Another couple were on their 11th NCL cruise and this was the first they had these extra taxes added. They said they are now finished with NCL.

Customer service desk did not appear to know why these charges were being applied and had various excuses and were very unhelpful. I was told to take it up with my travel agent once we were home. Apparently the Epic was only ship in the fleet applying these extra taxes for some reason. If it is an all inclusive package then that is what it should be?

We have travelled with Royal Carribean and P and O on numerous occasions with a drinks package and never been charged extra tax per drink before.

We did have a very enjoyable time on the cruise but we feel that we have been ripped off off by NCL so will not be booking with them again.

[steamboats]

@Alba1 you were charged 20% VAT on the price of the drink (so 4 USD for two 10 USD drinks) plus 10% on the 20% Service Charge (10 % of 4 USD = 0.40 USD) which totals to 4.40 USD. You were not charged at total of 30% which would be 6 USD for the two drinks.

 

steamboats

[Alba1]

1 minute ago, steamboats said:

@Alba1 you were charged 20% VAT on the price of the drink (so 4 USD for two 10 USD drinks) plus 10% on the 20% Service Charge (10 % of 4 USD = 0.40 USD) which totals to 4.40 USD. You were not charged at total of 30% which would be 6 USD for the two drinks.

 

steamboats

Read my post.

20% tax for everything.

An extra 10% charge when in a Port. Makes 30% in a Port.

So if you are trying to be smart or have a new calculator that you are playing with I will try to be more precise for you.

When at sea it was 20% = $4 tax for 2 $10 wines.

When in Port it was the 20% plus and extra 10% vat charge making it a total of 30% tax for all drinks and purchases in Port.

The point is that it is Stealth taxes being added that customers don't budget for.

 

 

[steamboats]

6 minutes ago, Alba1 said:

Read my post.

20% tax for everything.

An extra 10% charge when in a Port. Makes 30% in a Port.

So if you are trying to be smart or have a new calculator that you are playing with I will try to be more precise for you.

When at sea it was 20% = $4 tax for 2 $10 wines.

When in Port it was the 20% plus and extra 10% vat charge making it a total of 30% tax for all drinks and purchases in Port.

The point is that it is Stealth taxes being added that customers don't budget for.

 

 

Check out this thread 

 

showing a receipt of your cruise.

 

steamboats 

 

 

[Alba1]

37 minutes ago, steamboats said:

Check out this thread 

 

showing a receipt of your cruise.

 

steamboats 

 

 

Thanks for the thread. Glad to see I am not the only one complaining about this. 👍

[schmoopie17]

So, this thread started out with 10% being the issue. Now we're up to 30%. Where will it end?

I guess the sky's the limit.