Blackjack card counting

[teddie]

4 minutes ago, OCSC Mike said:

 

You could always try to explain to the grumps that whatever someone else does is just as likely to help them as hurt them, mathematically speaking, but that's pretty much guaranteed to go poorly. 🤣

From what I've heard, I'll not risk  it.  Slots for me, then 🙂

 

Teddie

[RJ257]

51 minutes ago, teddie said:

Indulge me, gamblers:

 

I am not a card-player in the casinos--while I'd love to play Black Jack, I am afraid I'll tick off the other players if I  take the "wrong" card due to my inexperience.  Rest assured--I won't be trying it. 

 

Now, here's my question, which goes all the way back to the movie, Rainman.  If an individual is talented enough to count cards, how would anyone know? And why is it not allowed?  Why is it any different than being an astute and observant player?

 

Don't kill me for asking,

 

Teddie

 

 

 

I wouldnt worry about other players. Ignore comments, play your game and enjoy yourself.

[BoLTMaNv2]

@teddieCard counters learn to accept all players. if the "other decisions" are not favorable they can always cash out and move tables. I would not be concerned not being an "expert"

 

Best thing you can do to improve your odds is learn basic strategy and play 3:2 with enough bankroll 20x min bet. You can even bring that "cheat sheet" with you in a card form to the table and reference it.

 

Card counting is not hard if you want to learn it. Despite have the knowledge of both CC and BS there is no guarantee for anyone. Blackjack is VERY cyclical. I typically can get up pretty good , if I stay to long i lose some of the up. Best to learn when to leave.

Edited November 19, 2023 by BoLTMaNv2

[sanchoucsb]

4 hours ago, teddie said:

Indulge me, gamblers:

 

I am not a card-player in the casinos--while I'd love to play Black Jack, I am afraid I'll tick off the other players if I  take the "wrong" card due to my inexperience.  Rest assured--I won't be trying it. 

 

Now, here's my question, which goes all the way back to the movie, Rainman.  If an individual is talented enough to count cards, how would anyone know? And why is it not allowed?  Why is it any different than being an astute and observant player?

 

Don't kill me for asking,

 

Teddie

 

 

 

1. Card counting is nothing like the movie Rainman and does not require you to be a genius or savant. It only requires you keep a single number in your head and then add or subtract one as you see high or low cards come out. It requires concentration and quick arithmetic but that’s all. It is not about remembering every card that has been played like in Rainman and other movies. 
 

2. Card counting tells you when you are more or less likely to win a particular hand. But it usually (see #3, below) doesn’t help you win that hand. That means that to take advantage of knowing the count, you need to vary your bet quite a bit and bet more when the deck is in your favor. It’s the varying bets, not the counting, that is noticed by the casino. 
 

3. Occasionally, card counting might actually help you win a hand by suggesting that you should hit when basic strategy says to stand, or vice versa. Unfortunately, this kind of obvious error is also easily noticeable by the casino, especially if you seem to be “guessing” right more often than not, and especially combined with the variable betting discussed in #2, above. 
 

[SRF]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:14 AM, starvenger said:

I think you're looking at my words out of context.

 

I don't talk about "overcoming" or anything of that nature. I simply stated what I think gives you the best opportunity to be net positive over the short term. But I probably could've been clearer, as I was trying to imply a very short term - maybe one or two shoes at most. That's hardly "overcoming" a disadvantage. That's simply trying to capitalize on the cards falling in your favour.

 

But to your point, unless you're card counting/playing with a team... yes, you're almost always playing at a long term disadvantage at a casino. That is something you know and accept once you step up to a table. 

 

Progressive betting it a good way to lose a LOT of money.  It is not unheard of to lose 30 more more hands in a row.  You will be out a LOT.

 

No, you don't need a team to make card counting work.  But you have to change your bets based on the count, and the casinos look for that better pattern.

[starvenger]

9 minutes ago, SRF said:

Progressive betting it a good way to lose a LOT of money.  It is not unheard of to lose 30 more more hands in a row.  You will be out a LOT.

I'm not one to stick around if I lose 10 in a row, never mind 30.

 

But yes, a progressive system can lose you money if you hit a bad run. You need wins in order to press, and with most systems you need at least two wins in a row to achieve positive numbers. Even if you go W-L-W-L, you'll slowly lose your buy in.

 

1 hour ago, SRF said:

No, you don't need a team to make card counting work. 

I never said that you needed a team to make counting work.

[jerryg95]

22 minutes ago, starvenger said:

I'm not one to stick around if I lose 10 in a row, never mind 30.

 

But yes, a progressive system can lose you money if you hit a bad run. 

 

A progressive system WILL lose you money if you hit a bad run. 
 

Calling the scheme of pressing bets because you win two in a row a Progressive System is an insult to all other systems. The odds are the same on the hand after two wins as it is after two loses.

[PigsCanFly]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:22 PM, ZoeyVictoria said:

Three-card poker is fun because there is nothing you could do that would affect or irritate other players (as happens in blackjack).  There is usually great camaraderie because every player (and the dealer) wants the others to do well.  

That is why I play 3-card.  It is usually a fun crowd.  That is also why I will not play BJ at a casino.  Other players seem to think that everyone else is doing the "wrong" things solely to affect their play.  That does not happen (that I have witnessed) on 3-card.  And I am still chasing a second Royal Flush.  The 6-card bet keeps me playing.  Love those 5 card straights and above.  A couple of wins can pay for my week.

 

[starvenger]

Would agree, 3 card is fun, if a bit mindless. House edge is kind of high though - something like 5%?

Edited November 20, 2023 by starvenger

[OldSeaDog1969]

It's easier to spot a card counter by his/her betting patterns. Flat betting the minimum at the start of the shoe & then increasing if the count is favorable. The betting range will generally be a 10-20 point spread of the table minimum. 

[FSHLOT]

Not sure why someone would come on a public message board and openly admit they count cards. At least try and be a little discreet about it. 😃

[A&L_Ont]

30 minutes ago, FSHLOT said:

Not sure why someone would come on a public message board and openly admit they count cards. At least try and be a little discreet about it. 😃

Not sure if you are using joke font or not, but this thread is about RC and cruising so this is an appropriate place for discussion. As for discreet, their CC names aren’t their real ones. Even though I don’t play cards I find this interesting, especially when compared to tipping threads. If your post was a joke please accept my apologies.

[FSHLOT]

10 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Not sure if you are using joke font or not, but this thread is about RC and cruising so this is an appropriate place for discussion. As for discreet, their CC names aren’t their real ones. Even though I don’t play cards I find this interesting, especially when compared to tipping threads. If your post was a joke please accept my apologies.

Sorry, but this thread is about counting cards, I know lots of gamblers and they would never come to a public forum and admit they do this. Even though they dont know real names, why even put it to chance?  Just sayin....

[OCSC Mike]

1 hour ago, FSHLOT said:

Not sure why someone would come on a public message board and openly admit they count cards.

 

I can't speak for others but I've been posting about it b/c I gave up counting decades ago.

 

That said, nothing has been posted here that isn't common knowledge to the BJ community and the casinos don't care about it enough to go chasing down posters from a cruise forum using anonymous handles.

Edited November 20, 2023 by OCSC Mike

[livingonthebeach]

30 minutes ago, OCSC Mike said:

 

I can't speak for others but I've been posting about it b/c I gave up counting decades ago.

 

That said, nothing has been posted here that isn't common knowledge to the BJ community and the casinos don't care about it enough to go chasing down posters from a cruise forum using anonymous handles.

 

LOL - you made me have my first ROTFLMAO today! So true, it is common knowledge indeed. Hardly worth investigative resources finding the true identity of a CC poster who may or may not count cards. 🤣

[starvenger]

18 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

LOL - you made me have my first ROTFLMAO today! So true, it is common knowledge indeed. Hardly worth investigative resources finding the true identity of a CC poster who may or may not count cards. 🤣

Yeah they only care once you are actively attempting to cut into their revenue.

[livingonthebeach]

26 minutes ago, starvenger said:

Yeah they only care once you are actively attempting to cut into their revenue.

 

Yes and preferably before you bring down the house! 🤣

[HappyTexan44]

2 hours ago, FSHLOT said:

Sorry, but this thread is about counting cards, I know lots of gamblers and they would never come to a public forum and admit they do this. Even though they dont know real names, why even put it to chance?  Just sayin....

 

 

I can just see it.  "You are from Texas, your wife seems pretty happy and you are playing blackjack.   I bet you are that card counter we've been watching for."  

[starvenger]

1 minute ago, HappyTexan44 said:

 

 

I can just see it.  "You are from Texas, your wife seems pretty happy and you are playing blackjack.   I bet you are that card counter we've been watching for."  

Where's the lie?

[livingonthebeach]

34 minutes ago, HappyTexan44 said:

 

 

I can just see it.  "You are from Texas, your wife seems pretty happy and you are playing blackjack.   I bet you are that card counter we've been watching for."  

LOL - You left out a huge clue - born in 1944. There are only a few million people fitting that description 😂

[HappyTexan44]

10 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

LOL - You left out a huge clue - born in 1944. There are only a few million people fitting that description 😂

 

Well, I wasn't born in '44.   But I can narrow it down, we are leaving from Galveston.  He'll be the only one in the next year from Texas who plays blackjack on a Galveston ship with a happy wife born after '44.   And even then, I'm sometimes grumpy.  So maybe the casino will see me being grumpy and think the one they are watching for isn't DH.  

 

[livingonthebeach]

20 minutes ago, HappyTexan44 said:

 

Well, I wasn't born in '44.   But I can narrow it down, we are leaving from Galveston.  He'll be the only one in the next year from Texas who plays blackjack on a Galveston ship with a happy wife born after '44.   And even then, I'm sometimes grumpy.  So maybe the casino will see me being grumpy and think the one they are watching for isn't DH.  

 

 

Be very careful. You are giving away too many clues. The RCI detectives will find you and send you to the brig where you will be met by the Texan police upon arrival in Galveston and escorted to the Galveston County Jail.  So be grumpy the entire time you are reducing the casino's mathematical advantage. 

[jeh10641]

On 11/18/2023 at 8:31 PM, BoLTMaNv2 said:

@teddieCard counters learn to accept all players. if the "other decisions" are not favorable they can always cash out and move tables. I would not be concerned not being an "expert"

 

Best thing you can do to improve your odds is learn basic strategy and play 3:2 with enough bankroll 20x min bet. You can even bring that "cheat sheet" with you in a card form to the table and reference it.

 

Card counting is not hard if you want to learn it. Despite have the knowledge of both CC and BS there is no guarantee for anyone. Blackjack is VERY cyclical. I typically can get up pretty good , if I stay to long i lose some of the up. Best to learn when to leave.

As Kenny Rogers sang "You got to know when to hold, know when to them!"

[OldSeaDog1969]

10 hours ago, OCSC Mike said:

 

I can't speak for others but I've been posting about it b/c I gave up counting decades ago.

 

That said, nothing has been posted here that isn't common knowledge to the BJ community and the casinos don't care about it enough to go chasing down posters from a cruise forum using anonymous handles.

Plus its not illegal

[Denversail]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:25 PM, OCSC Mike said:

 

It makes the house edge so much larger that it's a useless game to a counter. One of your biggest edges as the player is that you get paid 3:2 when you get BJ but when the dealer gets BJ, he/she doesn't take any extra from you. Regardless of if you are counting or not, this rule is horrible for all players.

Those are pretty much the odds on the strip in Vegas now. Unless you are at a higher limit table you are getting 6:5 payout on BJ with a few exceptions. Unfortunately it is the new standard. 3:2 is just a fond memory along with those $1 steak and eggs.