Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[HelloKittysMum]

We were just about to book for Christmas for 9 of us when I saw this thread a few weeks ago. Despite several members of the family having flown ultra longhaul on military flights down to Port Stanley (which I suspect make the Maleth look like luxury) we decided that the risk of these was too high and that we would do a different cruise instead. 

 

Now flying on Boxing Day to Houston (direct from Manchester on Singapore in PE) and doing an 11 day cruise on Princess. 

 

(My daughter (22) is glad because she had already asked if we had to do the Caribbean as we've done a lot of the same islands twice - this time we are still doing Caribbean but all different ports).  Never done Princess so will be interesting to compare.  

[ighten]

It does seem this was bound to happen once P&O put a mega ship into the Carribean that caters for mainly UK based pax. There simply are not enough seats using the normal airline fleets capacity.

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, ighten said:

It does seem this was bound to happen once P&O put a mega ship into the Carribean that caters for mainly UK based pax. There simply are not enough seats using the normal airline fleets capacity.

The issue is that this was planned in the days when P&O had a contract with Thomas Cook.

 

With their demise P&O have had to switch operators. A couple of years were masked by Covid, and last year made use of Virgin not being back to full capacity. Now P&O have to look elsewhere.

 

The honest thing is that so many operators scrapped planes during Covid, there is not the charter capacity worldwide that there was when Arvia was planned to go to the Caribbean.

[Ruby Star]

We recently had a land based holiday with TUI to Cyprus in May. A couple of weeks before we were to travel we received an email from TUI to inform us that due to a shortage of aircraft and crew they would be using Sunwing who are a Canadian airline. Sunwing didn't have a very good record in Canada so we were concerned. The flight was fine with the only gripe being the bilingual English/French announcements which were a bit distracting. The Canadian pilot was great. Just an example that TUI are also having to substitute planes and crew for their own packages. We are booked for December 2024 with P and O to join Britannia in the Caribbean and initially I was concerned by this announcement but then remembered what happened to us in May. We are looking forward to this cruise as it is to celebrate our ruby wedding anniversary and we will not let a lack of in flight entertainment spoil it.  I will take a good book and some crossword puzzles.

[carlanthony24]

2 hours ago, Ruby Star said:

We recently had a land based holiday with TUI to Cyprus in May. A couple of weeks before we were to travel we received an email from TUI to inform us that due to a shortage of aircraft and crew they would be using Sunwing who are a Canadian airline. Sunwing didn't have a very good record in Canada so we were concerned. The flight was fine with the only gripe being the bilingual English/French announcements which were a bit distracting. The Canadian pilot was great. Just an example that TUI are also having to substitute planes and crew for their own packages. We are booked for December 2024 with P and O to join Britannia in the Caribbean and initially I was concerned by this announcement but then remembered what happened to us in May. We are looking forward to this cruise as it is to celebrate our ruby wedding anniversary and we will not let a lack of in flight entertainment spoil it.  I will take a good book and some crossword puzzles.

During the summer periods Sunwing were in partnership with TUI to help in the UK and during the Winter TUI would send some aircrafts and crew over to help in Canada. Sunwing ended up being sold to WestJet. I believe the partnership ended this summer.

[carlanthony24]

Maleth departed 1hr 2mins late and landed an hour late. TUI departed just before the 2hr mark delayed and landed an 1hr 20 mins late. Not sure why you would complain over a delay charters always seem to leave late. Trying to get to Oceanic clearance straight away can be a big problem. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by carlanthony24

[molecrochip]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:48 PM, carlanthony24 said:

Maleth departed 1hr 2mins late and landed an hour late. TUI departed just before the 2hr mark delayed and landed an 1hr 20 mins late. Not sure why you would complain over a delay charters always seem to leave late. Trying to get to Oceanic clearance straight away can be a big problem. 

I'm confused as to how the poster would know that the plane was changed three times.

[jeanlyon]

50 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I'm confused as to how the poster would know that the plane was changed three times.

As ex aircrew, I find that very difficult to believe.  

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

I'm confused as to how the poster would know that the plane was changed three times.

More to the point; where would the three planes come from, maybe Tui have some hidden away for just these sort of circumstances. oops, now I have started another rumour.

[jeanlyon]

24 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

More to the point; where would the three planes come from, maybe Tui have some hidden away for just these sort of circumstances. oops, now I have started another rumour.

Yes that's what I meant.  There is no way they had 2 more aircraft just sitting there waiting to be used!!

[carlanthony24]

Makes no sense.

[Thejuggler]

Changed 'plane' could actually mean changed 'airline'.

[yorkshirephil]

22 minutes ago, Thejuggler said:

Changed 'plane' could actually mean changed 'airline'.

I doubt it as this is a charter flight by P&O, I think it is someone having a whinge with a bit of gossip thrown in, according to the post the flight was delayed an hour, which is probably not that bad. certainly not enough time to "change the plane three times". Obviously upset at lost luggage which I think any one would be. Hopefully they will get sorted.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

I doubt it as this is a charter flight by P&O, I think it is someone having a whinge with a bit of gossip thrown in, according to the post the flight was delayed an hour, which is probably not that bad. certainly not enough time to "change the plane three times". Obviously upset at lost luggage which I think any one would be. Hopefully they will get sorted.

Depends on how the poster views "change plane".  Certainly not impossible.

 

1. Book thinking its TUI.  Plane 1.

 

2. Flight changed to Maleth and reserve seats on Maleth plane. Plane 2.

 

3. Maleth swap the plane on the day of the flight - possible different seat seat up. Plane 3.

 

I'm not saying that is what happened but if you look at it that way you can get three planes.

[molecrochip]

Knowing BGI airport fairly well, its likely that the gate was changed three times!

[Megabear2]

Reading the Feefo reviews which are trickling through for the Britannia t/a, something clearly did go amiss before boarding.  Example (my bold emphasis):

 

"We to our dismay were booked on a MALETH AERO flight when most other clients on Manchester flights were with TUI. The flight was appalling, boarding passes were changed at the last minute and were duplicated on the flight causing major problems for the crew onboard the flight. The plane was old, discomfort on old seats was awful and cleanliness of the plane left much to be desired. This in particular was a massive reduction in the standards by P&O and to ask was this perfect is unbelievable."

[snaefell]

7 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Reading the Feefo reviews which are trickling through for the Britannia t/a, something clearly did go amiss before boarding.  Example (my bold emphasis):

 

"We to our dismay were booked on a MALETH AERO flight when most other clients on Manchester flights were with TUI. The flight was appalling, boarding passes were changed at the last minute and were duplicated on the flight causing major problems for the crew onboard the flight. The plane was old, discomfort on old seats was awful and cleanliness of the plane left much to be desired. This in particular was a massive reduction in the standards by P&O and to ask was this perfect is unbelievable."

The discomfort on old seats comment made me smile,IME seats on aircraft in the old days had far more padding than modern ones,we flew on new Etihad Dreamliners to & from the Far East a few years ago,2 8+ hour flights in each direction on flimsy plastic seats with hardly any paddin g,we were in pain for days after!

[Guest]

Back in 2007 for our first ever cruise, Princess chartered a Tui 767 to get us all over to San Juan. That had no IFE (only Virgin consistently did at the time) but I remember the seats being comfy! 
 

Oh how times have changed. We also had Princess charter a Titan airways flight to Barcelona once! That was lovely. They are rather posh for short haul! 
 

I find the TUI 787’s ok. The seat back TVs are small but the aircraft is comfortable. I certainly wouldn’t pay what P&O charge for premium for what you actually get compared to other airlines PE product. 
 

You get a very good deal to get a 10 hour flight included in the price of a 14n Caribbean cruise. You will pay the same price on any other line for a Caribbean cruise and it won’t include the flight. If you want to be picky about your flight, book your own separately (I have seen people do this for a P&O cruise). We paid £550pp in economy with VA to get to Miami last year, and £1000pp in PE this year. Flights are not cheap these days!
 

I guess if P&O are going to put bigger and bigger ships in the Caribbean, there are going to be fewer and fewer airlines (post Covid) that can rent out aircraft for that many people on what is probably now a smaller budget. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Guest

[Megabear2]

42 minutes ago, Glitterati said:

Back in 2007 for our first ever cruise, Princess chartered a Tui 767 to get us all over to San Juan. That had no IFE (only Virgin consistently did at the time) but I remember the seats being comfy! 
 

Oh how times have changed. We also had Princess charter a Titan airways flight to Barcelona once! That was lovely. They are rather posh for short haul! 
 

I find the TUI 787’s ok. The seat back TVs are small but the aircraft is comfortable. I certainly wouldn’t pay what P&O charge for premium for what you actually get compared to other airlines PE product. 
 

You get a very good deal to get a 10 hour flight included in the price of a 14n Caribbean cruise. You will pay the same price on any other line for a Caribbean cruise and it won’t include the flight. If you want to be picky about your flight, book your own separately (I have seen people do this for a P&O cruise). We paid £550pp in economy with VA to get to Miami last year, and £1000pp in PE this year. Flights are not cheap these days!
 

I guess if P&O are going to put bigger and bigger ships in the Caribbean, there are going to be fewer and fewer airlines (post Covid) that can rent out aircraft for that many people on what is probably now a smaller budget. 

Yes I'd agree about flight costs - they are a main driver along with hotels in UK inflation figures as a result. I've just paid Cunard £1800 for return flights to/from Tokyo for May 2025 which was an ouch moment!

 

This thread and other forums have discussed these flights to death regarding the "comfort" etc.  What will hopefully come through now they are operating is whether they are reliable and what the actual experience is for passengers.  There seems to have been some sort of administration errors in seat allocation for instance.  That seems odd as P&O are responsible for dealing with this and seat allocation is dealt with beforehand.

 

My thoughts (not worth much!).  If a fleet operates with basically the same aircraft as TUI does, the passenger will never know if the plane they fly on is the one allocated or not as their seat allocation will be identical so aircraft change causes no problem.  However if the fleet is a mishmash of several aircraft types with different seating configurations any change of plane for operational reasons will have the knock on that the seat allocations made by both passengers and P&O will go to pot and confusion will arise.  

 

The two aircraft plans we have seen posted on this thread are dramatically different.  One shows 2-4-2 configuration the other 3-3-3. If by necessity one of these had to be changed the remainder of Maleth's fleet have yet more different seating layouts.  If every passenger is allocated their seat whilst onboard the ship rather than at the airport check in it's going to cause a problem.  

 

Hopefully the aircraft will prove reliable as otherwise passengers are going to get rather annoyed.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Megabear2

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Yes I'd agree about flight costs - they are a main driver along with hotels in UK inflation figures as a result. I've just paid Cunard £1800 for return flights to/from Tokyo for May 2025 which was an ouch moment!

 

This thread and other forums have discussed these flights to death regarding the "comfort" etc.  What will hopefully come through now they are operating is whether they are reliable and what the actual experience is for passengers.  There seems to have been some sort of administration errors in seat allocation for instance.  That seems odd as P&O are responsible for dealing with this and seat allocation is dealt with beforehand.

 

My thoughts (not worth much!).  If a fleet operates with basically the same aircraft as TUI does, the passenger will never know if the plane they fly on is the one allocated or not as their seat allocation will be identical so aircraft change causes no problem.  However if the fleet is a mishmash of several aircraft types with different seating configurations any change of plane for operational reasons will have the knock on that the seat allocations made by both passengers and P&O will go to pot and confusion will arise.  

 

The two aircraft plans we have seen posted on this thread are dramatically different.  One shows 2-4-2 configuration the other 3-3-3. If by necessity one of these had to be changed the remainder of Maleth's fleet have yet more different seating layouts.  If every passenger is allocated their seat whilst onboard the ship rather than at the airport check in it's going to cause a problem.  

 

Hopefully the aircraft will prove reliable as otherwise passengers are going to get rather annoyed.

Surely P&O must know the seat configuration in advance? They said they are using Maleth a330- which is 2-4-2, with 3-3-3 being the TUI 787? Unless it is the number of rows on the aircraft which is causing issues. 

 

I believe Maleth also have a340s but for cargo (I know this as they are sat at Bournemouth airport!! Old VA aircraft). 
 

It’s certainly not a good look for P&O. Having travelled on numerous a330s and 787s, the latter are certainly a better experience across the board. Reliability also must become a factor with the Maleth fleet being so old. If I was a nervous flyer I would not be happy. However I had many a time sat at the gate waiting for a VA 747 with its engine casings open being fixed! They were old but still fantastic planes.

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Glitterati said:

Surely P&O must know the seat configuration in advance? They said they are using Maleth a330- which is 2-4-2, with 3-3-3 being the TUI 787

They will be given the number of the plane which will have the seat configuration confirmed for that aircraft.  However if you look at Maleth's website not one of their aircraft appears to have the same seat arrangement. Some have 2-4-2, some have an old first class section etc.

 

Therefore if on a cold wet day in Manchester or Gatwick Maleth finds a last minute fault on the aircraft going out to Barbados or Antigua and they need to swap it for a different one, there is a very high chance any seating numbers, location etc will be completely different.  Whilst they can make necessary adjustments to boarding passes at the UK airport when the luggage is checked in, out in Barbados/Antigua P&O have already issued boarding passes for plane "X" and plane "Y" may well have a totally different seat configuration.  No one checks in at these return airports, it's all done before the passengers arrive at the airport.  Cue chaos for both the flight crew and the passengers as boarding passes won't match the seats onboard.

 

Last year my TUI flight was delayed 3 hours, to prevent further delay waiting for the incoming aircraft TUI swapped in a different plane - same seating arrangements we only knew from speaking to onboard staff what had been done.  However the flight before ours the plane had a fault so TUI swapped in a substitute aircraft which was operated by Wamos, different plane, different seating new boarding passed had to be issued etc.  The point being aircraft changed occur all the time, we passengers aren't aware of what has happened unless it's such a big change of aircraft they need to change our seats.

[terrierjohn]

Just been looking at cabin width of both types of plane, airbus A330 is 17ft 3", the Boeing 787 is 18ft, only 9 inch wider with 9 seats as opposed to 8. Based on those dimensions I think I would choose the Airbus.

When we did fly we did plenty of long haul journeys on A330's and A340's, and never experienced any problems, and TBH the older Boeing 767's of US Air with the 2-3-2 configuration were the most comfortable economy planes we ever flew on, obviously IMO.

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Just been looking at cabin width of both types of plane, airbus A330 is 17ft 3", the Boeing 787 is 18ft, only 9 inch wider with 9 seats as opposed to 8. Based on those dimensions I think I would choose the Airbus.

When we did fly we did plenty of long haul journeys on A330's and A340's, and never experienced any problems, and TBH the older Boeing 767's of US Air with the 2-3-2 configuration were the most comfortable economy planes we ever flew on, obviously IMO.

Not all the Maleth planes have the 8 seat configuration if you look at their website.  Some do not have the 2 seats either side.

 

I'd agree on comfort I really liked A330 and A340.  In fact the new A350 is a lovely plane as well.

[yorkshirephil]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Just been looking at cabin width of both types of plane, airbus A330 is 17ft 3", the Boeing 787 is 18ft, only 9 inch wider with 9 seats as opposed to 8. Based on those dimensions I think I would choose the Airbus.

When we did fly we did plenty of long haul journeys on A330's and A340's, and never experienced any problems, and TBH the older Boeing 767's of US Air with the 2-3-2 configuration were the most comfortable economy planes we ever flew on, obviously IMO.

I have never flown on a comfortable plane yet, it doesn't help me being tall plus I fidget. I find the most uncomfortable planes are jet2 and the best dreamliners. I am hoping having my hip done will help a bit when we are next scheduled to fly in March next year. I still won't enjoy it though.

[Louby-Lou]

P & O has some great Caribbean itineraries but we wouldn't want a fly-cruise as we prefer to make our own flight arrangements.  If this were possible it would ease the pressure on the charter flights. Does anyone know the reason P & O doesn't allow this?