Key Bridge in Baltimore collapses into Patapsco River in Baltimore after vessel crashes into support column

[PC 462]

28 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

While the bridge reconstruction will take years, I cannot see any reason that the port will be closed more than a few sailings.  

From your post to God's ears (or eyes!).

[Pyxie]

1 hour ago, ninjacat123 said:

That's what I'm wondering... we embark on Pride Sept 1 and so far it's still out of Baltimore.🤷‍♀️

 

I'm on the August 18 Greenland cruise, but I'm just going to wait and see. I have Southwest flights and a refundable hotel so I can easily pivot to Norfolk if needed.

[jimbo5544]

51 minutes ago, PC 462 said:

From your post to God's ears (or eyes!).

I have been wrong before (today even), but I am more than fairly confident that unless something else really goes bad, the chance will be open ASAP, too much dependent on it.  The only thing that gives some cause for concern is whether some of the containers on the cargo ship that were compromised had something in them that could create a hazardous waste/contamination issue.  Let's hope that is not the case.

[PC 462]

12 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I have been wrong before (today even), but I am more than fairly confident that unless something else really goes bad, the chance will be open ASAP, too much dependent on it.  The only thing that gives some cause for concern is whether some of the containers on the cargo ship that were compromised had something in them that could create a hazardous waste/contamination issue.  Let's hope that is not the case.

I just found this news.  

 

The cargo ship that crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore was carrying dozens of hazardous material containers, some of which were breached during the collapse, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) announced Wednesday.

 

NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy on Wednesday said the agency was able to obtain the cargo manifest of the ship, named Dali, which was on its way to Sri Lanka when it smashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore overnight Tuesday. 

 

She said one of the NTSB senior hazmat investigators identified “56 containers of hazardous materials” on Dali, a 985-foot-long vessel. 

“That’s 764 tons of hazardous materials — mostly corrosives, flammables and some miscellaneous hazardous materials, class nine hazardous materials which would include lithium-ion batters,” Homendy said during a Wednesday press conference. “Some of the hazmat containers were breached.” 

[jimbo5544]

7 minutes ago, PC 462 said:

I just found this news.  

 

The cargo ship that crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore was carrying dozens of hazardous material containers, some of which were breached during the collapse, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) announced Wednesday.

 

NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy on Wednesday said the agency was able to obtain the cargo manifest of the ship, named Dali, which was on its way to Sri Lanka when it smashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore overnight Tuesday. 

 

She said one of the NTSB senior hazmat investigators identified “56 containers of hazardous materials” on Dali, a 985-foot-long vessel. 

“That’s 764 tons of hazardous materials — mostly corrosives, flammables and some miscellaneous hazardous materials, class nine hazardous materials which would include lithium-ion batters,” Homendy said during a Wednesday press conference. “Some of the hazmat containers were breached.” 

Not surprising, now I am sure they will review manifests and try and determine what the exposure to be.  Hopefully nothing really dangerous that impact the initial cleanup and channel clearing.

[At Sea At Peace]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

While the bridge reconstruction will take years, I cannot see any reason that the port will be closed more than a few sailings.  

 

I'd like to concur and agree with you but I'd be just hoping.

 

It appears from the reporting that handling the ship and its cargo (some with issues) is next up as others keep attempting to reach what is believed to be vehicles and/or missing persons.

 

I just can't see being optimistic about navigation until we start to see reports of some massive 'lift and dredge' capable land and sea apparatus start to show up.  Despite the fact that the bridge was steel and heavy, the tides will move pieces around and it will required perpetual monitoring (sonar, diver, mini-subs, etc.) until all such is cleared.  I can't see opening a navigation channel only without safety setbacks and moving debris tracking and removal.

 

Tough, tough blow to Baltimore.

[Earthworm Jim]

I have no idea if this is a significant issue. It may be an easily resolved, no big deal type concern. But Carnival has to suddenly arrange for all the food and other supplies that they were going to get in Baltimore to now be supplied in Norfolk on short notice. Maybe it's just run the trucks necessary to bring the Baltimore supplies down to Norfolk, rather than arrange a local supply in Norfolk.

 

All in all, there are going to be a bunch of people in Norfolk who thought they had Easter Sunday off working instead.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

I'd like to concur and agree with you but I'd be just hoping.

 

It appears from the reporting that handling the ship and its cargo (some with issues) is next up as others keep attempting to reach what is believed to be vehicles and/or missing persons.

 

I just can't see being optimistic about navigation until we start to see reports of some massive 'lift and dredge' capable land and sea apparatus start to show up.  Despite the fact that the bridge was steel and heavy, the tides will move pieces around and it will required perpetual monitoring (sonar, diver, mini-subs, etc.) until all such is cleared.  I can't see opening a navigation channel only without safety setbacks and moving debris tracking and removal.

 

Tough, tough blow to Baltimore.

Without question.  Of course recovery is priority one.  That said, not a single threaded job queue in terms of staging, and I have no idea what clearing the shipping channel is compared to clearing everything.  We can be optimistic or pessimistic or realistic, I have no idea where these gray lines begin and or end.  You seem knowledgeable, what is the difference between the navigation channel and the rest?  Does it all have to be removed before shipping can begin?   

[jimbo5544]

21 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

I have no idea if this is a significant issue. It may be an easily resolved, no big deal type concern. But Carnival has to suddenly arrange for all the food and other supplies that they were going to get in Baltimore to now be supplied in Norfolk on short notice. Maybe it's just run the trucks necessary to bring the Baltimore supplies down to Norfolk, rather than arrange a local supply in Norfolk.

 

All in all, there are going to be a bunch of people in Norfolk who thought they had Easter Sunday off working instead.

I bet that is true.  

[vandercapellen]

2 hours ago, PC 462 said:

I just found this news.  

 

The cargo ship that crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore was carrying dozens of hazardous material containers, some of which were breached during the collapse, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) announced Wednesday.

 

NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy on Wednesday said the agency was able to obtain the cargo manifest of the ship, named Dali, which was on its way to Sri Lanka when it smashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore overnight Tuesday. 

 

She said one of the NTSB senior hazmat investigators identified “56 containers of hazardous materials” on Dali, a 985-foot-long vessel. 

“That’s 764 tons of hazardous materials — mostly corrosives, flammables and some miscellaneous hazardous materials, class nine hazardous materials which would include lithium-ion batters,” Homendy said during a Wednesday press conference. “Some of the hazmat containers were breached.” 

So much for local crabs this year.

[KmomChicago]

Just found this on my phone from our Legend cruise. Good morning, Baltimore. 😢

[At Sea At Peace]

57 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

 what is the difference between the navigation channel and the rest?  Does it all have to be removed before shipping can begin?   

 

It's almost a 'never seen this before' given the size and length of the bridge spans, the cargo ship (and certain cargo) sort of holding captive other efforts and recovery efforts of other potential deceased.  

 

I'm not an expert at all, however, given the importance of the 'commercial side' of the Baltimore harbor, it would seem reasonable for them to concentrate on securing a clean and debris free navigation lane.  Then, since it will take considerable time to do the same laterally or up and down tide, and again considering the massive economic impact on Baltimore 'commercially,' it would not be a surprise to see the construction of protections to a navigation lane (to keep or minimize the risk of debris movement into) to keep the port open economically, before we see any work on the to-date unknown future bridge.

 

As an aside, if 'we can't' mobilize a massive effort to reopen a safe navigation to a strategic port, we should be embarrassed and such sends a very bad signal to . . . 

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I have been wrong before (today even), but I am more than fairly confident that unless something else really goes bad, the chance will be open ASAP, too much dependent on it.  The only thing that gives some cause for concern is whether some of the containers on the cargo ship that were compromised had something in them that could create a hazardous waste/contamination issue.  Let's hope that is not the case.

The thing about container shipping and hazardous materials, is "reportable quantity".  While the NTSB has stated that there are x many containers with hazardous materials in them, they are not saying how much, or what the materials are.  Hazardous materials shipped in containers only need to be reported as "hazardous materials" when the amount shipped reaches the "reportable quantity", so there could be thousands of containers on the ship with vast numbers of hazardous chemicals that are, per container, under the reportable quantity, and no one other than the shipper (the company that actually filled the container to be shipped to a customer) knows what they are.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

You seem knowledgeable, what is the difference between the navigation channel and the rest?  Does it all have to be removed before shipping can begin?   

The navigable channel is basically the area under the "center" or largest span of the bridge.  That span is 1200 feet, and you would want to probably clear the adjoining spans on either side, about another 800-1000 feet total.  The remainder of the 1.6 mile (8600 feet) of the bridge is outside the navigable channel, and would not need to be cleared to resume vessel traffic, and lots of it hasn't collapsed.

Edited March 28 by chengkp75

[chengkp75]

From my understanding of the Corps of Engineers plan, they hope to clear the main span of the bridge from the channel first to allow what they are calling "one way", but which is really "one at a time" traffic into/out of the port.  Then, when the spans are removed from the Dali, they will work to remove the Dali, and additional debris from the channel, and resume "two way" traffic, meaning ships can pass each other while under the bridge.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

From my understanding of the Corps of Engineers plan, they hope to clear the main span of the bridge from the channel first to allow what they are calling "one way", but which is really "one at a time" traffic into/out of the port.  Then, when the spans are removed from the Dali, they will work to remove the Dali, and additional debris from the channel, and resume "two way" traffic, meaning ships can pass each other while under the bridge.

Just read a report with someone from the Army Corp of Engineers stating pretty much the same thing.  Also said two barge cranes were "on the way" and that before the Dali could be moved the sections of bridge must be cut up and removed by crane, and this must be done before the ship could be moved out and may well also require sections in the water near Dali also.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

The thing about container shipping and hazardous materials, is "reportable quantity".  While the NTSB has stated that there are x many containers with hazardous materials in them, they are not saying how much, or what the materials are.  Hazardous materials shipped in containers only need to be reported as "hazardous materials" when the amount shipped reaches the "reportable quantity", so there could be thousands of containers on the ship with vast numbers of hazardous chemicals that are, per container, under the reportable quantity, and no one other than the shipper (the company that actually filled the container to be shipped to a customer) knows what they are.

wow....

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

It's almost a 'never seen this before' given the size and length of the bridge spans, the cargo ship (and certain cargo) sort of holding captive other efforts and recovery efforts of other potential deceased.  

 

I'm not an expert at all, however, given the importance of the 'commercial side' of the Baltimore harbor, it would seem reasonable for them to concentrate on securing a clean and debris free navigation lane.  Then, since it will take considerable time to do the same laterally or up and down tide, and again considering the massive economic impact on Baltimore 'commercially,' it would not be a surprise to see the construction of protections to a navigation lane (to keep or minimize the risk of debris movement into) to keep the port open economically, before we see any work on the to-date unknown future bridge.

 

As an aside, if 'we can't' mobilize a massive effort to reopen a safe navigation to a strategic port, we should be embarrassed and such sends a very bad signal to . . . 

yup

[Crowbait]

We are slated to sail on the Legend out of Baltimore to Barcelona on April 15th.  I am already looking at flight and hotel options in Norfolk. In the event that flights are exorbitant, did someone say that there is a train that goes from BWI to Norfork? Anyone have any details about that?

[jimbo5544]

17 minutes ago, Crowbait said:

We are slated to sail on the Legend out of Baltimore to Barcelona on April 15th.  I am already looking at flight and hotel options in Norfolk. In the event that flights are exorbitant, did someone say that there is a train that goes from BWI to Norfork? Anyone have any details about that?

google is your friend

 

Trains from Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport to Norfolk

 

 

Climate friendly

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, Apr 4 

 

Anytime

 

11:16 AM – 4:49 PM

5h 33m

0 changes

 

 

11:31 AM – 4:49 PM

5h 18m

1 change

Fast

 

1:36 PM – 7:09 PM

5h 33m

0 changes

 

 

4:52 PM – 10:33 PM

5h 41m

0 changes

 

 

 

[vacruizer]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

google is your friend

 

Trains from Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport to Norfolk

 

 

 

Climate friendly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, Apr 4 

 

Anytime

 

11:16 AM – 4:49 PM

5h 33m

0 changes

 

 

11:31 AM – 4:49 PM

5h 18m

1 change

Fast

 

1:36 PM – 7:09 PM

5h 33m

0 changes

 

 

4:52 PM – 10:33 PM

5h 41m

0 changes

 

 

 

The last leg of this is by bus from Newport News. 

[MD_Dan]

On 3/26/2024 at 7:27 AM, Pomc99 said:

Was this the bridge that was too low to allow larger cruise ships access to the port of Baltimore?
 

If so, build a new bridge taller to allow the larger cruise ships out of Baltimore. 

I feared it was too soon to comment about this but I'm glad you started!  The TWO limiting bridges were this bridge and the Cay Bridge.  They both had a clearance of 185' and 50+depth in the channel.  Unless they had a drawbridge I don't see it happening.  The Bay Bridge is usually a "white knuckle" experience the first times (and for some, every time) one drives across.  I can't see Maryland and Delaware folks adding much more height - this area is very flat.

[Crowbait]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

google is your friend

 

Trains from Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport to Norfolk

 

 

 

Climate friendly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, Apr 4 

 

Anytime

 

11:16 AM – 4:49 PM

5h 33m

0 changes

 

 

11:31 AM – 4:49 PM

5h 18m

1 change

Fast

 

1:36 PM – 7:09 PM

5h 33m

0 changes

 

 

4:52 PM – 10:33 PM

5h 41m

0 changes

 

 

 

Thanks! 

[MD_Dan]

 

 

Posted Tuesday at 08:12 AM

On 3/26/2024 at 8:08 AM, KmomChicago said:

@chengkp75 is posting on a similar thread on the RCI board.

 

 Possibly a small American Cruise Lines ship was scheduled for Baltimore today. Wonder where they will divert, thinking Norfolk makes the most sense.

 

• • 55
• June 22, 2023
• North Carolina

• #48  

Posted Tuesday at 08:12 AM

On 3/26/2024 at 8:08 AM, KmomChicago said:

@chengkp75 is posting on a similar thread on the RCI board.

 

 Possibly a small American Cruise Lines ship was scheduled for Baltimore today. Wonder where they will divert, thinking Norfolk makes the most sense.

Looks like it went to Washington DC according to cruise mapper.

 

The Potomac is not deep enough for a cruise ship of any size.

 

 

Edited March 29 by MD_Dan

[jimbo5544]

9 hours ago, Crowbait said:

Thanks! 

YW