New class being possibly revealed “very soon”

[smokeybandit]

4 hours ago, alfaeric said:

Another thing I find amusing is how people extrapolate their opinions of icon and oasis to everyone. Even though the large ships are getting premium fares and are selling full but the small ships are the lowest fares and don’t always sail full. 

What small ships aren't sailing full though? It's likely more the long and thin routes, which are more likely to get slotted to a smaller ship, that aren't sailing full. The more traditional vacation routes, no matter ship size, are definitely full.

[shipgeeks]

4 hours ago, alfaeric said:

Another thing I find amusing is how people extrapolate their opinions of icon and oasis to everyone. Even though the large ships are getting premium fares and are selling full but the small ships are the lowest fares and don’t always sail full. 

The Vision class ships based in Baltimore always sail full!  

[alfaeric]

44 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

The Vision class ships based in Baltimore always sail full!  

No, they don't.  We were just on her for 2 cruises, and the second one had +400 fewer people.

 

 

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

What small ships aren't sailing full though? It's likely more the long and thin routes, which are more likely to get slotted to a smaller ship, that aren't sailing full. The more traditional vacation routes, no matter ship size, are definitely full.

Just posted about the vision, but given they are also consistently the cheapest cruises, they are not the highest demand ships.  

 

Think what you want, but when we see that they are the cheapest cruse AND the times we have sailed are not the fullest, yea.  Maybe really close to full, but given the price per night, nowhere near the relative demand for mega ships.

[smokeybandit]

Vision is a classic example of a long and lean route since she does so many 9 nighters.
 

[shipgeeks]

15 hours ago, alfaeric said:

No, they don't.  We were just on her for 2 cruises, and the second one had +400 fewer people.

 

 

That was one that got moved to Norfolk unexpectedly, and quite a few pax cancelled.

 

[shipgeeks]

15 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Vision is a classic example of a long and lean route since she does so many 9 nighters.
 

And many 12-nighters.

[Southern Dan]

I personally would love a 12 night cruise leaving from Tampa on a brand new small ship.  Would be on her every January during the NFL playoffs enjoying the games in Playmakers!

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, shipgeeks said:

That was one that got moved to Norfolk unexpectedly, and quite a few pax cancelled.

 

You mean back in Feb when we got on and off the ship in Baltimore?  I wasn't aware that we got off in Norfolk and was bussed back to our waiting car that we could see from our cabin when we got off the second time.....

[alfaeric]

Just to ground people a little in size....  

 

Almost all of the talk is about a ship that is somewhere in the Voyager to Freedom class ships- which is between ~3600 to 4600 passengers.  Just for fun, stick with Voyager for 3600 passengers.

 

This compared to Vision (2200) or Radiance (2500).

 

So at a min, the ship needs about ~500 more cabins at double occupancy.  Sure, you can stretch it like the Enchantment- but that added ~150 cabins.

 

The only choices are to make it wider or higher for those added cabins.

 

Wider is very possible, but it would end up limiting the places they can go, too.  So higher is the most likely thing.  That's multiple decks higher.  Have to be a heck of a stack to retract multiple decks in.

 

I want it to be true, too.  As we really enjoy sailing out of Baltimore.  But realism of what they are actually saying suggests that the ship isn't likely to be that small.

[F27TW]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:57 PM, fenton04 said:

Out of the archives.

 

Very cool to see!   She was a beautiful ship .. and i remember the food was just incredible. 

CostaRiviera was my very first cruise .. and the ship that god me hooked!
 

[Ourusualbeach]

On 5/4/2024 at 5:11 PM, alfaeric said:

Just posted about the vision, but given they are also consistently the cheapest cruises, they are not the highest demand ships.  

 

Think what you want, but when we see that they are the cheapest cruse AND the times we have sailed are not the fullest, yea.  Maybe really close to full, but given the price per night, nowhere near the relative demand for mega ships.

Only iof you compare inside cabins.  Take a look at the prices for the balconies and you will see that they are quite high.

 

This is one of the major design flaws of the Vision class is the lack of balcony staterooms.

[Southern Dan]

21 hours ago, alfaeric said:

Just to ground people a little in size....  

 

Almost all of the talk is about a ship that is somewhere in the Voyager to Freedom class ships- which is between ~3600 to 4600 passengers.  Just for fun, stick with Voyager for 3600 passengers.

 

This compared to Vision (2200) or Radiance (2500).

 

Everything I’ve been seeing on various message boards is that the captains on ships have been saying they will be sized in between Radiance and Voyager Class.  We’ll find out eventually I suppose…

[Cruise a holic]

While the Icon of the Seas was a remarkable ship, perfect for young families, as a Senior, I found it too big.  We were in a suite- but it was smaller then the Oasis class suites, with less storage space.  I prefer the Oasis class ships. They have  many of the bells and whistles and choice, it isn't as huge as the Icon ships.  We do not like the small ships.  Less choice- and some need serious renovations.  Perhaps they will be sold.

 

Let's face it- as time marches by, many more young families will be sailing and the industry has to prepare for them. 

Edited May 6 by Cruise a holic

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, Cruise a holic said:

They have  many of the bells and whistles and choice, it isn't as huge as the Icon ships.

It really isn't that much smaller.

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Only iof you compare inside cabins.  Take a look at the prices for the balconies and you will see that they are quite high.

 

This is one of the major design flaws of the Vision class is the lack of balcony staterooms.

So then it doesn't sail full like the mega ships.

 

As for the prices, no, the suites are lower cost, too- that's where we sail, and the small ships are all much lower than the biggest ships.  Unless the ship is on some special itinerary.  Compare equal itineraries, and the price is lower on smaller ships.

Edited May 6 by alfaeric

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, Southern Dan said:

 

Everything I’ve been seeing on various message boards is that the captains on ships have been saying they will be sized in between Radiance and Voyager Class.  We’ll find out eventually I suppose…

Vision is 2200, Radiance is 2500.  Any bigger than that and it will have to grow a deck, meaning it will have a tough time with the bridges.

[Cruise a holic]

30 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

It really isn't that much smaller.

Having walked a few times a day from our suite at the aft, to the foward part of the ship, I did more steps on my application then ever on the icon

Edited May 6 by Cruise a holic

[RobInMN]

35 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Vision is 2200, Radiance is 2500.  Any bigger than that and it will have to grow a deck, meaning it will have a tough time with the bridges.

Voyager is 3100-4000, so you can increase the footprint without necessarily adding decks. The pool deck on a Voyager class and Radiance class are both on Deck 11. Voyager's extra decks & height come from the "Crown" (Deck 14 vs 13) and the stacks. I am pretty sure you could add 1 deck to Radiance without having any issues with the vast majority of bridges. I think you could add a deck without increasing the overall height too much as they seem to have abandoned the "Crown".

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, RobInMN said:

Voyager is 3100-4000, so you can increase the footprint without necessarily adding decks. The pool deck on a Voyager class and Radiance class are both on Deck 11. Voyager's extra decks & height come from the "Crown" (Deck 14 vs 13) and the stacks. I am pretty sure you could add 1 deck to Radiance without having any issues with the vast majority of bridges. I think you could add a deck without increasing the overall height too much as they seem to have abandoned the "Crown".

We will just to have to agree to disagree.  The 2200 ship Vision barely fits into Baltimore as it is, I don't really know if Radiance will or not.  But adding 10-20% more cabins isn't exactly trivial. Moreso as cabins have gotten slightly larger over time.  AND when you have more cabins, the commonly used spaces also need to be bigger, such as the theater, dining room, and WJ.   Making the foot print bigger means taller, wider, longer.  Longer didn't add many for Enchantment- but it would if it had more decks (like Voyager to Freedom).  Wider could, but I'm not sure how much wider a small ship can get without problems.  And wider also means a ton more interior cabins- which lowers the value of them.  Unless the ship is wide enough to have a central parkish area.  But either longer and wider will change how the ship can use a dock.  Taller, on the other hand....

 

It's not that I don't want it to happen- I really would love to see a 3000 person ship fit into Baltimore.  I just can't see the modern design do it- one with a bunch of balcony decks (far more than the 2 Vision ships have).

Edited May 6 by alfaeric

[cruiselvr04]

If they do make the discovery class I’m hoping for more storage then Oasis and bigger ships.  The older ships have great storage.  Take Radiance and Voyager class for instance.  Even her inside cabins have lots of storage.  Since these ships may be used for longer cruises I’m hoping they are designed with that in mind. If we go for more then a week I have trouble storing all our “stuff” in a regular cabin on Oasis or Quantum class. When they went to divided closets it got even worse. On the older ships I can put everything away easily, out of sight.

[alfaeric]

FWIW, I just looked up estimates of the height out of water (TIL this is also referenced as air draft) of the ships vs. the bridges.

 

Vision class ~170 ft

Radiance Class ~172 ft

 

The bridges are 185 ft, but I'm sure that varies a lot with tide.

 

Voyager class >200ft 

 

There's not enough room to add another deck, so the decks would have to move up and lose one off the top.

 

It would be creative to add that many cabins in the same space.  And, for once, I would actually worry about it feeling crowded.  Which is hard to fathom on a small ship

[blt23]

8 hours ago, RobInMN said:

Voyager is 3100-4000, so you can increase the footprint without necessarily adding decks. The pool deck on a Voyager class and Radiance class are both on Deck 11. Voyager's extra decks & height come from the "Crown" (Deck 14 vs 13) and the stacks. I am pretty sure you could add 1 deck to Radiance without having any issues with the vast majority of bridges. I think you could add a deck without increasing the overall height too much as they seem to have abandoned the "Crown".

How the decks are numbered is completely arbitrary. Relative to the ships' waterlines, Voyager's pool deck is one higher than Radiance's.

 

Once tides and required clearance are accounted for, Radiance is about as tall of a ship as works with the bridges in Baltimore and Tampa. Simply making it one deck taller would absolutely not work for those 2 ports. If they were really aggressive about limiting the height/number of top decks and add retractable stacks, it might be possible to have one additional deck of balcony cabins.

 

Of course, adding such a deck also affects a ship's weight and stability. The natural solution to that is making the hull wider, but Tampa's port isn't exactly known for having wide and easy to navigate channels so that option may not work either.

 

We do know that Vancouver can accommodate (relatively) wider ships and the higher height of its bridge allows 1-2 more decks than Tampa/Baltimore, so building a 3000 passenger ship for that market should be pretty straightforward.

 

So that's what I'm expecting.

[RobInMN]

Total number of passengers is a tough one. I think you'd have to go ~3000 (or more??) for the economics. But if I recall correctly, some of the potentially desirable ports of call that are limiting or looking at limiting cruise ship sizes are targeting 2500 & under? So that might be a factor also?

Edited May 6 by RobInMN

[Southern Dan]

https://www.instagram.com/ssship_cruisenews/p/C6cH2jiuTo_/?img_index=1