B2B and the PVSA

[Munday]

Hello All,

 

Before I call Princess, can someone familiar with the PVSA confirm if this B2B is legal to book;

 

Cruise 1: LA, San Diego, SF, Victoria, Vancouver

Cruise 2: Vancouver, Ketchican, Seattle

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

[hrhdhd]

No. You can't be transported from one U.S. port to another without a distant foreign port, and none of these counts.

[burnabyjean]

If it's a round trip, then the port only has to be foreign, not distant foreign. That's why round trip Seattle to Alaska only has to stop in Victoria. Your proposal is not round trip as you are not returning to the same port, so the non-US port would have to be distant.

[SomewhereGirl]

It's OK if they are on different ships.

[NavyVeteran]

2 hours ago, Munday said:

Hello All,

 

Before I call Princess, can someone familiar with the PVSA confirm if this B2B is legal to book;

 

Cruise 1: LA, San Diego, SF, Victoria, Vancouver

Cruise 2: Vancouver, Ketchican, Seattle

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

14 minutes ago, SomewhereGirl said:

It's OK if they are on different ships.

It would also be legal on the same ship if you disembarked Cruise 1 in Victoria, spent one night on land, and embarked the next day for Cruise 2 in Vancouver. You would have to have the deviation approved by Princess in advance, and they would have to make arrangements with the Canadian government to process a disembarkation in Victoria. Even though it would not violate the PVSA, I have no idea if Princess would approve this.

[Coral]

2 hours ago, Munday said:

Hello All,

 

Before I call Princess, can someone familiar with the PVSA confirm if this B2B is legal to book;

 

Cruise 1: LA, San Diego, SF, Victoria, Vancouver

Cruise 2: Vancouver, Ketchican, Seattle

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Same ship, nope. Different ships, yes.

 

If same ship - think of it this way, on the West coast you can't start in one US city and end in another (with out a distant foreign port which you won't get on a coastal).

Edited May 14 by Coral

[Cruise Raider]

No, that is a violation and they won’t allow it.  
Of interest, I know others may argue with me on this, but wanted to tell you of my experience.  We were to travel from Seattle roundtrip on the Royal, take the bus from Seattle to Vancouver to embark on the Majestic before disembarking in Los Angeles.  We were informed it was not allowed even for the life of me, I could not see the violation. 
We had the option of disembarking in Vancouver to stay one night there, so we did that.  

 

[Coral]

10 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

No, that is a violation and they won’t allow it.  
Of interest, I know others may argue with me on this, but wanted to tell you of my experience.  We were to travel from Seattle roundtrip on the Royal, take the bus from Seattle to Vancouver to embark on the Majestic before disembarking in Los Angeles.  We were informed it was not allowed even for the life of me, I could not see the violation. 
We had the option of disembarking in Vancouver to stay one night there, so we did that.  

 

I believe you but this is wrong. They screwed up.

[Cruise Junky]

14 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

No, that is a violation and they won’t allow it.  
Of interest, I know others may argue with me on this, but wanted to tell you of my experience.  We were to travel from Seattle roundtrip on the Royal, take the bus from Seattle to Vancouver to embark on the Majestic before disembarking in Los Angeles.  We were informed it was not allowed even for the life of me, I could not see the violation. 
We had the option of disembarking in Vancouver to stay one night there, so we did that.  

 

That’s mind bogglingly wrong. 

[Cruise Junky]

4 hours ago, Munday said:

Hello All,

 

Before I call Princess, can someone familiar with the PVSA confirm if this B2B is legal to book;

 

Cruise 1: LA, San Diego, SF, Victoria, Vancouver

Cruise 2: Vancouver, Ketchican, Seattle

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Not legal on the same ship.  You are sailing from LA to Seattle (two different US ports) with no foreign DISTANT port in the middle  

[Cruise Raider]

38 minutes ago, Coral said:

I believe you but this is wrong. They screwed up.

I think so as well but we had a great time, nevertheless.  

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Cruise Raider said:

I think so as well but we had a great time, nevertheless.  

Were you planning on settling the bill, and taking all your luggage with you when you disembarked in Seattle?  If not, then they are correct.  You must permanently disembark for one voyage to be declared ended, and then you can start another.

[Cruise Junky]

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Were you planning on settling the bill, and taking all your luggage with you when you disembarked in Seattle?  If not, then they are correct.  You must permanently disembark for one voyage to be declared ended, and then you can start another.

They were two different ships. Royal Princess to Majestic Princess.  

[TRLD]

3 hours ago, Cruise Raider said:

No, that is a violation and they won’t allow it.  
Of interest, I know others may argue with me on this, but wanted to tell you of my experience.  We were to travel from Seattle roundtrip on the Royal, take the bus from Seattle to Vancouver to embark on the Majestic before disembarking in Los Angeles.  We were informed it was not allowed even for the life of me, I could not see the violation. 
We had the option of disembarking in Vancouver to stay one night there, so we did that.  

 

Was the bus transport a Princess transportation option, or a standard commercial bus?

 

If it was a Princess bus, then I can see why it might cause a potential conflict since the complete trip was on cruise line provided transportation. 

 

If you traveled on your own then I do not see why there would be a PVSA conflict.

 

It would be pretty easy for a cruise line to put mechanisms to bypass the intent of PVSA by setting up schedules with two shops from US ports meeting in the same foreign port and selling two individual bookings without an overnight gap. So there seems to be some considerations going beyond get offone ship and on another owned by the same line on the same day. Even if you fully disembark one ship with luggage and board another on the same day from the same line.

Edited May 14 by TRLD

[Cruise Raider]

5 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Was the bus transport a Princess transportation option, or a standard commercial bus?

 

If it was a Princess bus, then I can see why it might cause a potential conflict since the complete trip was on cruise line provided transportation. 

 

If you traveled on your own then I do not see why there would be a PVSA conflict.

I was just going to take the QuickShuttle bus .. so private.  I couldn’t see a PVSA violation but it ends up we decided not to fight it as we didn’t want to get up that far and be denied boarding.  We found a wonderful hotel to stay at in Vancouver and so glad we took that option anyway.  We don’t care much for cities but found a great little boutique hotel up there so, it ended up to be a very nice trip.  

[mahasamatman]

11 hours ago, SomewhereGirl said:

It's OK if they are on different ships.

 

False. It would have to be a different cruise line.

[Mark_K]

29 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

 

False. It would have to be a different cruise line.

You may be right, but that’s never been my impression, and it is The Passenger Vessel Services Act not The Passenger Cruise Line Services Act. 

[NavyVeteran]

39 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

 

False. It would have to be a different cruise line.

That is incorrect. The PVSA applies to vessels - not to cruise lines.

U. S. Customs and Border Protection provides AN IMFORMED COMPLICANCE PUBLICATION on the PVSA. I would recommend reading this for official details instead of relying on what someone tells you.

 

Page 14 makes it clear that the PVSA applies to what a passenger actually does - not to the published itinerary. This would apply to disembarking early or to combining two or more itineraries into a B2B.

Edited May 15 by NavyVeteran

[Cruise Junky]

48 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

 

False. It would have to be a different cruise line.

You’ve posted that a few times please stop. 

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

 

False. It would have to be a different cruise line.

No, two ships of the same cruise line are not considered to be one voyage.  The definition of what constitutes a "voyage" is when a passenger permanently disembarks (i.e. settles the bill and takes their luggage) the ship, the voyage is ended.  Since, by definition, you permanently disembark one vessel to get on another, the first voyage ends, and a new voyage begins.

[eclue]

They need to abolish the PVSA  - it is outdated and serves no purpose today. I have had two trips ruined because of it.

 

[Coral]

1 hour ago, mahasamatman said:

 

False. It would have to be a different cruise line.

 

Your information is not accurate.

Edited May 15 by Coral

[DallasGuy75219]

8 hours ago, TRLD said:

If it was a Princess bus, then I can see why it might cause a potential conflict since the complete trip was on cruise line provided transportation.

Still not a PVSA violation.  PVSA applies to voyages on a single ship, not the whole cruise line.  Not mention they would have debarked in one port and embarked in another.

 

Changing ports and/or changing ships "breaks" any potential PVSA-violating (single) voyage, because it creates two distinct voyages.

 

Whoever told @Cruise Raider this was a PVSA violation was wrong to begin with.

[NavyVeteran]

31 minutes ago, eclue said:

They need to abolish the PVSA  - it is outdated and serves no purpose today. I have had two trips ruined because of it.

 

It isn't going to happen, since it protects US companies. Similar laws apply to freight and to air travel. For example, if British Air has a flight from London to New York continuing to Los Angeles, you could travel from London to New York or from London to Los Angeles, but you could not travel from New York to Los Angeles. Without that law, would we have any US airlines?

Without the PVSA, American Cruise Lines would immediately go out of business - they could not pay US wages and compete with foreign lines. Note that Viking had to build US flag ships and hire US crews to sail on the Mississippi.

[Coral]

My TA had someone who wanted to do LA to Vancouver and then Honolulu on the same ship (2 voyages). She really thought it was wrong but called Princess. The Princess reps kept telling her it was ok but she kept escalating it. She ended up being right but it took her a long time for Princess to recognize that it was wrong. They then noted on their booking engine that the 2 voyages can not be booked together.

 

I am not surprised someone wrongly informed @CruiseRaider. This is one of those things that many on CC understand this better than cruise line employees.

Edited May 15 by Coral