Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, Kineticoh20 said:

Read this on Princess site....

"All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas."

What troubled me was the term compensation as opposed to tip on top of compensation. Is anyone else reading it as it's part of thier regular pay? Throughout the year? That is odd language too.

 

 

I have no problem calling it compensation.  That is what it is.   What I might (probably do) have issue with is how the pooled monies are redistributed to staff.  

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I couldn't agree more.  The simplest thing would to just add $16 or $17 per day to cruise fares.

They would do that and then someone find a clever way to extract more involving staff appreciation somehow

 

It's just the nature of the beast

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan

[karatemom2]

And for anyone saying it’s not “transparent” I don’t think Princess could make it more clear. It is spelled out in black and white! 
 

The “Crew Appreciation” is a daily amount for each guest that will be automatically added to your onboard account for your convenience, to recognize the efforts of a wide variety of crewmembers who contribute to the experiences of all our guests.  The crewmembers eligible to receive these funds work in various departments, many of whom rotate among different ships, throughout our fleet of ships. The amount of the Crew Appreciation will be based on stateroom category, as set out below:

[JimmyVWine]

5 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I couldn't agree more.  The simplest thing would to just add $16 or $17 per day to cruise fares.

But they kind of do.  I haven't paid "Crew Appreciation" since maybe 2016-2017.  Instead I purchased "Plus 40". Then "Plus 50".  Then "Plus 60".  Now "Premier 80."  My cruise fare goes up by a set amount per day, and I don't get scammed or hoodwinked.  I know my cost up front.  I suspect that a majority of passengers are doing the same, and this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing. 

[dog]

4 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 
But in reality, why is that different then just charging that same amount as a daily crew appreciation? The cost is the cost - it comes out the same. 
 

if you don’t object to paying the daily service cost, what difference does semantics make? Whether it is in the fare, or added to the fare as an onboard expense?

It is discretionary for standard fare.

[Torfamm]

4 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 
But in reality, why is that different then just charging that same amount as a daily crew appreciation? The cost is the cost - it comes out the same. 
 

if you don’t object to paying the daily service cost, what difference does semantics make? Whether it is in the fare, or added to the fare as an onboard expense?

Just increasing cruise fare would eliminate these discussions and let the cruise line pay the money out however they like without upsetting guests who are bothered by it being called crew appreciation.

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I have no problem calling it compensation.  That is what it is.   What I might (probably do) have issue with is how the pooled monies are redistributed to staff.  

One way or another the staff appreciation we pay (which should be advertised as compensation anyway) is quite simply increasing profits for Princess

 

Nothing more nothing less

 

It's a very clever but underhand way of extracting extra money from passers before the leave the ship (for no cost) in huge amounts per cruise

 

That's what it is. Disguised as a gratuity to thank the staff for a great job done. Doesn't matter what they spend it on. It's just adding to profits for shareholders and taking advantage of customer goodwill

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan

[Bgwest]

1 hour ago, whitecap said:

I will not tip to make up for the employer not paying a good wage.  

Yet this is exactly what cruise lines are hoodwinking us into doing. 
Well thought out post. 

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

You do understand that by altering the business model to eliminate the crew appreciation pool service charge, your cruise cost will not change. Those dollars will just be allocated in another way - either via higher cruise fares or mandatory service fees? 
 

 

It will increase the fares for those who typically cancel the crew appreciation.   

[Bgwest]

52 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

To find it's actually a "staff compensation" charge

You’ve nailed it.  
With your permission, I will begin using your definition.  

[dog]

4 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Delete

Edited May 29 by dog

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

One way or another the staff appreciation we pay (which should be advertised as compensation anyway) is quite simply increasing profits for Princess

 

Nothing more nothing less

 

It's a very clever but underhand way of extracting extra money from passers before the leave the ship (for no cost) in huge amounts per cruise

 

That's what it is. Disguised as a gratuity to thank the staff for a great job done

 

I seriously doubt they would adopt this policy if it were not beneficial to the bottom line.   

 

Would you be willing to replace the current system with an increase in cruise fares that will likely be more than the current fare + gratuity?  And then, would you say tipping should still happen, or would it be no longer expected? 

 

I suspect people's strong feelings on this are heavily weighted by their home tipping culture. 

 

[karatemom2]

Just now, ldubs said:

 

It will increase the fares for those who typically cancel the crew appreciation.   

 
Correct. Frankly I don’t care how they charge me - I would pay the charge either way. 
 

It’s the very people here complaining and who remove the CA, protesting that the crew should be paid a living wage who will feel the cost increase when it is inevitably made a mandatory charge or added into the fare. 
 

Right now enough people honor the system that those who remove the CA charges do so without any consequence. But eventually I imagine if it tips too heavy in that direction the cruise lines will just adjust pricing accordingly and force everyone to pay an equal share because it will be mandatory. And then I imagine people will complain about that too. 
 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I seriously doubt they would adopt this policy if it were not beneficial to the bottom line.   

 

Would you be willing to replace the current system with an increase in cruise fares that will likely be more than the current fare + gratuity?  And then, would you say tipping should still happen, or would it be no longer expected? 

 

I suspect people's strong feelings on this are heavily weighted by their home tipping culture. 

 

I already cruise elsewhere where tipping is not required. They state that specifically as a benefit of booking with them. They must be paying staff legal wages for that to happen 

 

And at the end of the cruise (and during for certain meals) I still tip cash for good service if I get it

 

But I tip less now than if there were no tips included and the staff were expecting cash tips at the end as in the old days. 

 

(When we shared same table with same waiters every night and obviously the cabin steward) 

 

Cost of cruise is a choice

 

But don't deceive me on staff appreciation

 

Anyway I've learnt my lesson now. Millions haven't I suspect

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 
Correct. Frankly I don’t care how they charge me - I would pay the charge either way. 
 

It’s the very people here complaining and who remove the CA, protesting that the crew should be paid a living wage who will feel the cost increase when it is inevitably made a mandatory charge or added into the fare. 
 

Right now enough people honor the system that those who remove the CA charges do so without any consequence. But eventually I imagine if it tips too heavy in that direction the cruise lines will just adjust pricing accordingly and force everyone to pay an equal share because it will be mandatory. And then I imagine people will complain about that too. 
 

 

Or, increase the crew appreciation amounts, which has happened over time.  Though as I think about daily amounts expected back in the old envelope days, it hasn't increased as much as a lot of other things over the same time period.  

[whitecap]

1 minute ago, karatemom2 said:

 
Correct. Frankly I don’t care how they charge me - I would pay the charge either way. 
 

It’s the very people here complaining and who remove the CA, protesting that the crew should be paid a living wage who will feel the cost increase when it is inevitably made a mandatory charge or added into the fare. 
 

Right now enough people honor the system that those who remove the CA charges do so without any consequence. But eventually I imagine if it tips too heavy in that direction the cruise lines will just adjust pricing accordingly and force everyone to pay an equal share because it will be mandatory. And then I imagine people will complain about that too. 
 

 

I think the point that those of us that you label as "complaining" aren't addressing the cost, rather, the fact that the "crew appreciation" is not appreciation for the job well done by the crew on the ship you are on, but money you are giving to Princess to give out to whoever they decide deserves it and further it isn't just an "appreciation" but wage compensation and bonuses, again, given to whoever they decide deserves it.  

[Interestedcruisefan]

8 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 
Correct. Frankly I don’t care how they charge me - I would pay the charge either way. 
 

It’s the very people here complaining and who remove the CA, protesting that the crew should be paid a living wage who will feel the cost increase when it is inevitably made a mandatory charge or added into the fare. 
 

Right now enough people honor the system that those who remove the CA charges do so without any consequence. But eventually I imagine if it tips too heavy in that direction the cruise lines will just adjust pricing accordingly and force everyone to pay an equal share because it will be mandatory. And then I imagine people will complain about that too. 
 

 

So you purely worry about total cash spent rather than whether passengers are misled into spending it

 

So if you aren't concerned about at what stage you spend it

 

What's wrong with a transparent upfront cost ? 

 

Rather than the cruiseline calling it something that it clearly isn't?

 

You understand how it works most do not?

 

Do you want others to be misled?

[memoak]

4 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Exactly

 

If you go in restaurants and bars on the land the gratuities do have to go to the staff and it's on top of their wages

 

It's not used to top up wages

 

The law makes sure of that

 

Same law should apply to cruise holidays

 

It's giving cruise ships an unfair advantage over land holiday suppliers come to think of it with this deception they are using

Yes but wages in restaurants are very low some all the way down to the minimum allowed by law. There is no deception. Many restaurants now just raise their prices or add the gratuity to the bill so people will pay tips. I assume no one who objects to tips on this thread ever goes to a specialty restaurant since there is now a 18% tip added. If any of you do frequent these restaurants then I assume you know you are being hypocritical 

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 

 

Right now enough people honor the system that those who remove the CA charges do so without any consequence. But eventually I imagine if it tips too heavy in that direction the cruise lines will just adjust pricing accordingly and force everyone to pay an equal share because it will be mandatory. And then I imagine people will complain about that too. 
 

 

Wouldn't be anything to complain about?

 

You just book the cruise and pay the new price being asked or not?

 

Like any other purchase?

[karatemom2]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So you purely worry about total cash spent rather than whether passengers are misled into spending it

 

So if you aren't concerned about at what stage you spend it

 

What's wrong with a transparent upfront cost ? 

 

Rather than the cruiseline calling it something that it clearly isn't?

 

You understand how it works most do not?

 

Do you want others to be misled?

 
Once again, who is being mislead. Princess spells it out as clear as day in the explanation. Where is the confusion - seems pretty straightforward to me. 
 

The “Crew Appreciation” is a daily amount for each guest that will be automatically added to your onboard account for your convenience, to recognize the efforts of a wide variety of crewmembers who contribute to the experiences of all our guests.  The crewmembers eligible to receive these funds work in various departments, many of whom rotate among different ships, throughout our fleet of ships. The amount of the Crew Appreciation will be based on stateroom category, as set out below:

[memoak]

24 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

Just increasing cruise fare would eliminate these discussions and let the cruise line pay the money out however they like without upsetting guests who are bothered by it being called crew appreciation.

If they upped the cruise fare you would then find posters not believing it goes to crew

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 minutes ago, memoak said:

Yes but wages in restaurants are very low some all the way down to the minimum allowed by law. There is no deception. Many restaurants now just raise their prices or add the gratuity to the bill so people will pay tips. I assume no one who objects to tips on this thread ever goes to a specialty restaurant since there is now a 18% tip added. If any of you do frequent these restaurants then I assume you know you are being hypocritical 

When I'm In a restaurant paying a bill with a service charge or tip added to the bill I always ask the staff first if the staff get all the tips if I pay by card

 

And if they say no I ask them to remove the tip and pay them cash instead

 

Because I don't want to benefit the business I want to benefit the staff serving in the business

 

Same as on the cruise line

 

That's consistent not hypocritical 

 

In UK you don't even have to ask that question anymore in restaurants as by law the tips have to be added to staff wages and we also have minimum wages as well 

 

The restaurant wouldn't last a month if they tried to do what Princess are doing

 

The bad publicity would close them down (alongside the authorities)

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan

[karatemom2]

3 minutes ago, memoak said:

Yes but wages in restaurants are very low some all the way down to the minimum allowed by law. There is no deception. Many restaurants now just raise their prices or add the gratuity to the bill so people will pay tips. I assume no one who objects to tips on this thread ever goes to a specialty restaurant since there is now a 18% tip added. If any of you do frequent these restaurants then I assume you know you are being hypocritical 

Many restaurants here in LA simply add it on to the bill now, no ifs, ands or buts. You dine there - you pay it. And people do without a second thought - and generally add a bit more over the included 15 to 18 percent. 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, whitecap said:

I think the point that those of us that you label as "complaining" aren't addressing the cost, rather, the fact that the "crew appreciation" is not appreciation for the job well done by the crew on the ship you are on, but money you are giving to Princess to give out to whoever they decide deserves it and further it isn't just an "appreciation" but wage compensation and bonuses, again, given to whoever they decide deserves it.  

 

Bonus pay is wage compensation.  

 

Incentive based bonuses are OK.  They are a good thing if they get staff to focus on what is deemed important.  It would be nice to know the metrics used for the CA distribution.  I think the feedback cards probably come into play.  Maybe ship profitability, IDK.   

 

As a general principle, I would prefer my grats to stay with the staff & ship.  If the cruise line uses this pooled system, I would at least like any extra given to specific staff stay in their pockets.  

[Ombud]

36 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

40 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I couldn't agree more.  The simplest thing would to just add $16 or $17 per day to cruise fares.

 
But in reality, why is that different then just charging that same amount as a daily crew appreciation? The cost is the cost - it comes out the same. 
 

if you don’t object to paying the daily service cost, what difference does semantics make? Whether it is in the fare, or added to the fare as an onboard expense?

As a solo cruiser I prefer this way. If its added into the base fare then I'd pay it twice instead of once. JMHO