New York Daily News

[johnql]

Old news - this topic was extensively discussed in a thread earlier this week.

[above sea level cruiser]

[quote name='Don Haynes']Charters are common in the travel/tourist industry. Airlines, hotels, and cruise ships. Unfortunately, these passengers were bumped for Rosie's charter. All of the passengers are getting a full refund, plus $100 per cabin on board credits for another NCL cruise. [B]Five plus months is a long time from the sailing date, all of the passengers have plenty of time to switch ships or cruise lines.[/B] While this decision may have been a public relations nightmare for 200 to 300 booked customers, its a win win marketing decision for NCL.

However, the Daily News, a tabloid rag, didn't mention this. At a cost of possibly a half million dollars, NCL gains at least ten times that amount in nationwide marketing.[/quote]

I myself find this VERY comforting, five months?...how absolutely wonderful of NCL. "Bumping" is not good PR regardless of the carrier. JMHO:mad:


[quote name='johnql'][B]Old news - this topic was extensively discussed in a thread earlier this week[/B].[/quote]

Ya, it sure was but it's still an interesting read and my guess is that the original thread is nowhere to be found.:(

[KeystoneCruiser]

[quote name='Don Haynes']Charters are common in the travel/tourist industry. Airlines, hotels, and cruise ships. Unfortunately, these passengers were bumped for Rosie's charter. All of the passengers are getting a full refund, plus $100 per cabin on board credits for another NCL cruise. Five plus months is a long time from the sailing date, all of the passengers have plenty of time to switch ships or cruise lines. While this decision may have been a public relations nightmare for 200 to 300 booked customers, its a win win marketing decision for NCL.

However, the Daily News, a tabloid rag, didn't mention this. At a cost of possibly a half million dollars, NCL gains at least ten times that amount in nationwide marketing.[/quote]


This may have been a good decision for NCL's pocketbook, but it is still a very poor and, in my opinion, a very unethical way to treat customers who are just as good as Rosie O'Donnell.

But of course, this is NCL corportate at its normal operations: screw the common people for our own pockets.

[Don Haynes]

I can't believe this anti-business attitude. If someone offered to buy your old chunker for $500 today but had to wait for Friday, and someone else offered to buy it for $1000 a few hours later, who would you sell your car to? No difference with Rosie.

[Host CMLA]

[quote name='above sea level cruiser']Ya, it sure was but it's still an interesting read and my guess is that the original thread is nowhere to be found.:([/QUOTE] Then you'd guess wrong. There have been 5 threads started covering this same topic with the same link to the same story. All of the threads have been combined into this one, the first one started, and a redirect was left in place for 24 hours so the OP of the latter threads would know where the thread went. This thread you are on is the original thread.

[SailAways]

[quote name='Don Haynes']I can't believe this anti-business attitude. If someone offered to buy your old chunker for $500 today but had to wait for Friday, and someone else offered to buy it for $1000 a few hours later, who would you sell your car to? No difference with Rosie.[/QUOTE]

This is not an anti-business attitude, it is pro-consumer.

Don't know about you, Don, but if we made an agreement with the person making the $500 offer, he is the one who would get the vehicle, regardless of what happened after the deal was accepted.

You have stated, and re-stated your "business" ethics, and from a "business" perspective, they work only as far as making the big bucks.
They certainly do not work as far as good customer relations are concerned.

[mikeythemars]

O.K. a question for the historians here:

Does the ugly loud-mouth in discussion always do her charters the same general way (mid July, seven day sailings?)

I'm asking because I'm looking to book a cruise on the Gem out of NYC in July 2008 (as soon as the schedules become available) and I really, [I][U]really[/U][/I] want to avoid having it subsequently torn away by some idiot celebrity.

[curiouscat]

Hey... you left out insulting her sexual orientation too....:( I really think this is the underlying hatred here... it's deplorable.

Just because you don't "like" her I wouldn't be soo quick to insult her personally and look more to the co she is booking thru....NCL....

You'll just have to take your chances if you want to sail NCL... she is a major stockholder and her partner owns a TA that charters NCL sailings:D


CuriousCat

"beware of those that cast stones"

[Shark Bait]

I have traveled to many resorts and have been on many cruises and never had a confirmed reservation cancelled.

If they needed to cancel these people they should have offered them a free alternative package. The bottom line of NCL doesn’t phase the disappointed cruiser.

[FONT="]I can’t believe the lack of ethics.[/FONT]

[Don Haynes]

I did a little research on the smooth jazz full charters that I know of and found the following full charters
-The Jazz Cruise-HAL Westerdam 11/11/2007-11/18/2007
-The Smooth Jazz Cruise-Westerdam 1/20/2008-1/27/2008
-Dave Koz and Friends -Westerdam 11/4/2007-11/11/2007
-North Sea Jazz Cruise-Rotterdam 7/5/2007-7/17/2007
-The Latin Music Cruise-Westerdam 1/27/2008-2/3/2008

Carnival has the following charters (not sure if they are full charters but I suspect they are)

-The Elvis Tribute -Celebration 8/30/2007-9/6/2007
-The All Star Jazz Cruise-Spirit 1/19/2008-1/27/2008
-Festival at Sea-Legend 8/12/2007-8/19/2007

Royal Carribean contribution (that I know of)
-Tom Joyner's Fantastic Voyage - Freedom of the Seas 5/20/2007-5/27th/2007

My point is this. Guest pay a hefty premium (45% or better) to the promoters who charter the ship and they are sell outs every year and have a higher % of repeat guest then the normal % on a non charter cruise. Groups such as Hogs on the High Seas (which my older brother is going on ) continue to do large group bookings and have become so popular they will probably be able to full charter a smaller ship very soon. Tom Joyner's group is in it's 8th year.

If I am the senior VP of sales for a cruise company, this is a no brainer, all fixed cost are covered, a very deep pocket guest who probably has not been exposed to cruising before is a guest on a full charter, loves it and will probably want to go on a "normal" cruise.

Whether you like Rosie or not, has nothing to do with it. She has opened the business opportunity for NCL to attract a highly desired travel segment that are very loyal to companies that treat them well. NCL for now has a major marketing edge and they will continue to make the business decisions that impact their bottom line.

Plus I am sure that when all cruise lines are approached about full charters with less then a year out, they run a business model that will identify excess capacity during any given week and projection of displaced revenue and what is needed to incentify the displaced customer to keep cruising on the same line.

These are business decisions plain and simple. Nothing personal. I remember all the uproar when Carnival pulled 3 ships out of service to come to New Orleans, charterd by the US Government. IMHO it was the right thing to do and displaced guest still found a way to cruise

[newmexicoNita]

[quote name='Shark Bait']I have traveled to many resorts and have been on many cruises and never had a confirmed reservation cancelled.

If they needed to cancel these people they should have offered them a free alternative package. The bottom line of NCL doesn’t phase the disappointed cruiser.

[FONT="]I can’t believe the lack of ethics.[/FONT][/QUOTE]I have had hotel reservations cancelled but never a cruise, nor have I had a cliant have a cruise cancelled, but beleive me it happens more than you may think. Of course the percentage is still low and chances are none of us will ever have this happen. No, I do not think the cruise line should have offered them a free alternative package; that is niave to think any company would do that. More than $100 OBC yes, but certainly not a free week long cruise. NMNita

[macy115]

We just returned from the Sun. We were originally booked on the Jewel for last week but we were also bumped off when Rosie chartered the ship. We also were offered the same $100.00 on a future NCL cruise. I had already paid for my airfare to Miami and also prepaid for a Hotel room for the night before. I felt that was so unfair and posted my displeasure on this board. I was surprised when so many people thought that I was wrong in complaining about the situation. I called our TA to find another NCL ship for the same week (We love NCL Freestyle) and we were able to book the Sun out of New Orleans. We had to pay a $300.00 penalty to change our flight and we could not get a refund on our Hotel (booked with a prepay online discount site) Shoreguy posted that He thought that NCL should have compensated us for our Airline penalty and recommended that I call NCL and calmly explain my situation and see if they would do anything to help with the additional expense. I called and I was told to send the all of the paperwork showing what additional expenses that I had incurred and that they would try to get me an OBC. I was surprised when about a month later I received a check in the mail for $480.00 ($300.00 airfare $80.00 hotel + the $100.00 that they originally offered) As it turned out we had our best cruise ever on the Sun.

[SailAways]

[quote name='macy115']We just returned from the Sun. We were originally booked on the Jewel for last week but we were also bumped off when Rosie chartered the ship. We also were offered the same $100.00 on a future NCL cruise. I had already paid for my airfare to Miami and also prepaid for a Hotel room for the night before. I felt that was so unfair and posted my displeasure on this board. I was surprised when so many people thought that I was wrong in complaining about the situation. I called our TA to find another NCL ship for the same week (We love NCL Freestyle) and we were able to book the Sun out of New Orleans. We had to pay a $300.00 penalty to change our flight and we could not get a refund on our Hotel (booked with a prepay online discount site) Shoreguy posted that He thought that NCL should have compensated us for our Airline penalty and recommended that I call NCL and calmly explain my situation and see if they would do anything to help with the additional expense. I called and I was told to send the all of the paperwork showing what additional expenses that I had incurred and that they would try to get me an OBC. I was surprised when about a month later I received a check in the mail for $480.00 ($300.00 airfare $80.00 hotel + the $100.00 that they originally offered) As it turned out we had our best cruise ever on the Sun.[/QUOTE]

This is a great instance of the cruise line coming through for a customer. It would be nice if they came through for every bumped cruiser, but I doubt that would ever happen.

Thanks for reporting your good outcome in dealing with NCL. I would imagine that your calm attitude played a big part in this.
Good for you!

[mikeythemars]

[quote name='curiouscat']Hey... you left out insulting her sexual orientation too....:( I really think this is the underlying hatred here... it's deplorable.

Just because you don't "like" her I wouldn't be soo quick to insult her personally and look more to the co she is booking thru....NCL....

You'll just have to take your chances if you want to sail NCL... she is a major stockholder and her partner owns a TA that charters NCL sailings[/quote]

Thank you for the "pro-View" lecture. Unfortunately, it didn't address my original question, so I contacted my TA (who works in the group cruise business), and he within minutes was able to confirm the suspect in discussion has a beaten path MO (ergo, chartering mid July, 7 day sailings).

So I'm now armed with information to get the desired product and protect myself from abuse by the impersonal corporate seller and their increasingly divisive celebrity "buddy."

Perhaps NCL needs to remember the saying "[I]the company you keep[/I]....";)

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='editor@cruisecritic'][FONT=Georgia]That is an amazing AMAZING photo! May we use it to illustrate an NCL story? It's lovely....[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia]Best,[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia]Carolyn[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia]Editor[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia]Cruise Critic[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia]PS and where were you, exactly?[/FONT][/quote]


Yes, feel free to use it. I have been asked before how I took this photo, so I already have a photo to show how it was done ...

[IMG]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/ZefH/NCL%20Star/Starphoto.jpg[/IMG]

First of all, it is the Vincent Thomas Bridge (not the St. Thomas bridge). Next, I used an 8 mega-pixel camera with an 8 to one zoom. The channel leaving the San Pedro cruise dock curves. I found a place where I had a clear line of sight up the channel and took the photo as the ship was making a slight left turn. The arrow represents (more or less) my position and the shooting direction of the camera. As you can see, I was safely on land when I took the photo. As a bonus, it was the patio of a restaurant. So I was able to have lunch while I was waiting for the ships to leave.

Here are the photos taken just before and just after the one I posted ...

[IMG]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/ZefH/NCL%20Star/Star2-4-2-06.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/ZefH/NCL%20Star/Star4-4-2-06.jpg[/IMG]

Just to the right of the head on photo is the Vision of the Seas. I took the same photo of the Vision OTS as she was leaving ...

[IMG]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/ZefH/VOS%20leaving%20LA/VOS3-4-2-06.jpg[/IMG]

[fin]

[quote name='curiouscat']Hey... you left out insulting her sexual orientation too....:( I really think this is the underlying hatred here... it's deplorable.

Just because you don't "like" her I wouldn't be soo quick to insult her personally and look more to the co she is booking thru....NCL....

You'll just have to take your chances if you want to sail NCL... she is a major stockholder and her partner owns a TA that charters NCL sailings:D


CuriousCat

"beware of those that cast stones"[/quote]


Wow, what a long stretch to invent some so-called homophobia. Disgusting.

[electricron]

[quote name='SailAways']This is not an anti-business attitude, it is pro-consumer.

Don't know about you, Don, but if we made an agreement with the person making the $500 offer, he is the one who would get the vehicle, regardless of what happened after the deal was accepted.

You have stated, and re-stated your "business" ethics, and from a "business" perspective, they work only as far as making the big bucks.
They certainly do not work as far as good customer relations are concerned.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. NCL ethics are above board, they will refund all your cash, and add on an additional on board credits. If the seller in the previous example told the consumer that if a better offer came along before he fully paid for the vehicle, that the vehicle would be sold to another, and that you'll get your down payment back, I see no ethical problems. A similar clause is on your cruise ticket contract.

It's not unethical to back out of a contract, as long as there are agreed upon penalties. Those penalties were agreed upon when you booked your cruise.

[SailAways]

[quote name='electricron']I disagree. NCL ethics are above board, they will refund all your cash, and add on an additional on board credits. If the seller in the previous example told the consumer that if a better offer came along before he fully paid for the vehicle, that the vehicle would be sold to another, and that you'll get your down payment back, I see no ethical problems. A similar clause is on your cruise ticket contract.

It's not unethical to back out of a contract, as long as there are agreed upon penalties. Those penalties were agreed upon when you booked your cruise.[/QUOTE]



Isn't it strange, to believe that one would have used such phraseology for a $500 transaction. We sold a pickup this week, to a high school student, which we know we could have gotten more for, but he wanted it so desperately, we just couldn't say no to his offer. I assure you, if someone else had come along, and offered more, our answer would have been "Sorry, it is already sold."

We live in a part of our country, where a handshake, and your word are as good as any contract, written, or verbal.

I have stated that I agree that NCL has every "right" to cancel, but that IMHO, it does not create good customer relations.

Perhaps this is one of the instances where you have to be the one being bumped, after spending months and months preparing for a cruise to celebrate a special occasion with family and friends, to adequately feel their pain.

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='electricron']I disagree. NCL ethics are above board, they will refund all your cash, and add on an additional on board credits. If the seller in the previous example told the consumer that if a better offer came along before he fully paid for the vehicle, that the vehicle would be sold to another, and that you'll get your down payment back, I see no ethical problems. A similar clause is on your cruise ticket contract.

It's not unethical to back out of a contract, as long as there are agreed upon penalties. Those penalties were agreed upon when you booked your cruise.[/quote]

Which ethics are your referring to? Legal or business? NCL may be legally okay. But in business, the customer comes first, or the customer might not come at all. I was not on the cruise, but from my point of view, I don't like what NCL did, and it could effect my willingness to book with NCL in the future. Business ethics requires that you honor your commitments, even if you might loose money in the process.

My opinion would be completely different if NCL had said up front, someone is considering chartering this ship for this week. If that happens we will ___________. However, apparently NCL did not do that.

Now perhaps NCL was not notified until recently that someone was interested in chartering the ship. This close to sailing NCL should have said I am sorry, but the ship is not available for charter that week. Perhaps you would be interested in a week toward the end of summer. However, it does not appear NCL did that either.

I wanted to try a Celebrity cruise around September / October 2005. However, when I tried to book it in January of 2005 the ship was no longer open for booking. So I booked a cruise on the NCL Star. Later an even better Celebrity cruise option opened up. I was outside the penalty period. I could have canceled without penalty and booked Celebrity. I did not do so because I was already emotionally attached to the cruise I booked. There was nothing special about it (no celebrations, no friends or family also book). I could have canceled without guilt. Nonetheless, I had a good time and I enjoyed the cruise on the NCL Star.

However, I have cruised on four different lines and I have enjoyed all the cruises. I know I would not appreciate finding out four - five months prior NCL was dropping me because someone who was more important (to NCL - not to me) wanted my cabin. If that is how NCL is going to treat their customers, why should the customers book with NCL? It is a two way street. NCL may have the right to do what it did. But then, the customers have the right to not book with NCL.

Now I know of at least two cases where it appears NCL made it right (in one way or another). As a result I am still willing to book with NCL. Unfortunately I cannot do so through my current TA, as my TA will no longer book cruises with NCL (do to a different, but apparently well documented problem).

NCL must balance its short term goals with its long term goals. Perhaps this is a good business decision today. But will it be a good business decision tomorrow? I know of at least one business that had an excellent reputation among its growing list of customers. Then when the chance for some big bucks came along, it abandoned its loyal customers for the big bucks. Problems developed and without its loyal customer base to keep it going, the company when bankrupt. I have heard of this happening to other companies also.

The reverse has also happened. Some companies have been able to get through bad times because of the loyalty of its customers (remember the new Coke / classic Coke issue?). There is a value to the company gained when it treats its customers right.

So if NCL develops a reputation for abandoning its customers, based on a clause in its contract, then NCL risks loosing those customers. Are there enough charters and cheerleaders to fill NCL's ships?

[mikeythemars]

[quote name='Cuizer2']So if NCL develops a reputation for abandoning its customers, based on a clause in its contract, then NCL risks loosing those customers. Are there enough charters and cheerleaders to fill NCL's ships?[/quote]

Excellent point - if NCL continues to have such short term vision, it [I]will[/I] come back to hit them. And [B]hard[/B].

[awatt]

[quote name='mikeythemars']Excellent point - if NCL continues to have such short term vision, it [I]will[/I] come back to hit them. And [B]hard[/B].[/QUOTE]


That"s correct!

Last June (I think) we were bumped from teh NCL Jewel 2/17/07 sailing by Rosie O'Donnell, who decides to charter the ship. Although that left more lead time than the current situation, it was not easy to find a replacement ship and accomadations for our group. Everybody had been so excited to be on the new Jewel! We were supposed to be in an A3, very cool.

We were offered a shipboard credit (150?) it if we rebooked a different ship for a similar time frame, but we needed Presidents week.

So I got the last available suite on the Caribbean Princess. We sailed last week and had a fabulous time. Would highly recommend this ship to fans of freestyle as there is alot of flexibility on this ship. Also, multiple pools as well as adult-only areas, so ship did not feel crowded. Best food I've had at sea on 6 different lines, including Regent.

Sorry to ramble but my point is this: By bumping me they made me try another line which I loved. That's not good for NCL. I still love NCL as well, don't flame me. But now I am a little less loyal and feel i have more options to choose from in the future.

[cruzeluvr]

The July 7 sailing of the NCL Dawn has been cancelled since Rosie O'Donnell decided to charter the ship.


[URL]http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1172668560141360.xml&coll=1[/URL]

[smeyer418]

old news,,,discussed before.

[mikeythemars]

[quote name='smeyer418']old news,,,discussed before.[/quote]

But the understandable, justified annoyance at how NCL handled this remains. O'Donnell charted the ship almost a year in advance, but NCL sat on that info and took bookings from the general public until only five months out. Solely as an excuse to hang onto interest from payments.

Yes, I know, the "fine print" in the generic NCL contract allows that sort of thing, but I'm really sick of the apologists for arrogant, insensitive corporations saying that justifies their action. It doesn't - and the nasty P.R. kickback NCL (and failed publisher/inflammatory TV "host" O'Donnell) are deservedly getting for this is alive and well, examples below.:D

[url]http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_21265366.shtml[/url]

[url]http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/02/21/rosie_o_donnell_denies_ruining_cruise_va[/url]

[url]http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272611726.shtml[/url]

[url]http://www.celebslam.com/rosie-mocks-your-lupus[/url]

[url]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=13712[/url]

[url]http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=70355[/url]

[smeyer418]

[quote name='mikeythemars']But the understandable, justified annoyance at how NCL handled this remains. O'Donnell charted the ship almost a year in advance, but NCL sat on that info and took bookings from the general public until only five months out. Solely as an excuse to hang onto interest from payments.

Yes, I know, the "fine print" in the generic NCL contract allows that sort of thing, but I'm really sick of the apologists for arrogant, insensitive corporations saying that justifies their action. It doesn't - and the nasty P.R. kickback NCL (and failed publisher/inflammatory TV "host" O'Donnell) are deservedly getting for this is alive and well, examples below.:D

[URL]http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_21265366.shtml[/URL]

[URL]http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/02/21/rosie_o_donnell_denies_ruining_cruise_va[/URL]

[URL]http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272611726.shtml[/URL]

[URL]http://www.celebslam.com/rosie-mocks-your-lupus[/URL]

[URL]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=13712[/URL]

[URL]http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=70355[/URL][/quote]

I never said it couldn't have been handled better. Most of the bad publicity was aimed at Rosie not NCL.