HAL Formaly introduces "as you wish dining"

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

Come on get real, NCL was never known for their cuisine, even before they went to "free style" cruising, their competition was and always has been Carnival!!

 

Look at the premium cruises like Silversea that have gone to open seating and you can see that their cuisine and service did not suffer. What HAL has done is gave us the option of HAL's better service and smaller ships and open dinning with out having to settle for either NCL's and Princess’s inferior service, larger crowded ships and poor cuisine

 

The first time we sailed on NCL (1992) on the Westward, we had traditional dining and the food was excellent. When we went back on NCL last year, it was horrible. As to Silversea, isn't there just one sitting? So basically, anytime you get to the dining room you are guaranteed a table.

[songanddance]

I agree, my wife and I hate being told where and when to eat dinner and the new AYWD was the main reason we booked with HAL on the November Volendam Panama Cruise instead of booking with Princess. :) We can now get HAL superior service and quality with the open dinning option. No more inferior NCL or Princess cruises for us in the future. WAY TO GO, JOB WELL DONE HAL!!!

 

We do not like eating late or too early on cruises. If you take the traditional early seating in most cases you miss the destination sail aways and if you eat late you end up going to bed on a full stomach.

 

I may be a pessimist here but both NCL and Princess had excellent service BEFORE they put forth their freestyle concept. The reason for putting it in was to attract a more mass market audience to fill the numerous ships all the lines seem to love to build. Once instituted, the lines noticed how badly they can abuse the passenger and still have them come back for more abuse. hence the constant lowering of service.

 

Guaranteed, this new policy is the beginning of the end of HAL as it has been well known and loved for years and in fact generations.

 

Cunard tried to lower their standards of dress etc and the passengers refused to go along so they reinstitued higher standards. It will be up to the loyal HAL passenger to refuse to go along if they wish to keep what is so very important to them.

 

If you want Traditional and they won't give it to you make a big stink on-board and demand it. If enough people do this on any given cruise then they will have to relent and return to a quality product.

[Cruising-along]

 

Here's one of my late DH and I on the Amsterdam for our 25th Anivesary.

 

 

Sharon, what a nice picture! I LOVE your dress too. It's the same color as the dress I chose for my "mother of the bride dress" for our daughter's wedding in Sept.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Come on get real, NCL was never known for their cuisine, even before they went to "free style" cruising, their competition was and always has been Carnival!!

Actually NCL's direct competitor in the past was seen as Royal Caribbean... Not that the food on either one was ever all that good IMHO! Indeed both have had to upgrade their food over the past few years, as has Carnival.

 

Carnival used to be seen as being in an even lower market segment than NCL or RCI. Now, not so much, as Carnival has gone (comparatively) "upscale" recently and competes in the standard market with NCL, RCI and now Princess too.

 

HAL and Celebrity are still considered "premium" though this distinction seems rather tenuous these days.

 

So basically, anytime you get to the dining room you are guaranteed a table.

Silversea has open seating, not single-seating dining. Same for Seabourn, SeaDream, Regent, Oceania, Azamara. Among North American lines, the only holdouts in a market segment above HAL are Crystal with traditional two-seating dining and Cunard with a combination of two-seating and single-seating dining (the latter being the only one where you are guaranteed a table).

 

I may be a pessimist here but both NCL and Princess had excellent service BEFORE they put forth their freestyle concept.

I'm bemused by all the talk of excellent food and service on NCL in the pre-Freestyle days (1990s). I didn't think it was all that good, frankly - adequate, yes, but far from excellent and certainly no better than you will get on any standard-market line (NCL, Royal Caribbean, Carnival) today.

 

Ont he other hand, at that time Princess was still a premium product, competing with HAL and Celebrity... NCL was (and always has been) in the standard segment, competing with Royal Caribbean and (once it moved up from budget to standard) Carnival.

 

For all the whining about NCL it seems to me that NCL's passengers like NCL just fine - it may not be your taste but that doesn't mean it's bad.

 

Guaranteed, this new policy is the beginning of the end of HAL as it has been well known and loved for years and in fact generations.

Do you really think HAL has not had a bigger change than this for generations?

 

With all the complaints over the past five years or so about how HAL is going down the tubes, it's hard to believe there are any "traditionalists" left anyway ;) .

[Cruising-along]

We do not like eating late or too early on cruises. If you take the traditional early seating in most cases you miss the destination sail aways and if you eat late you end up going to bed on a full stomach.

 

This is the same reason I'm looking forward to AYW dining. That plus if you're in port and doing excursions, you have to rush back and change clothes to make an early seating, or end up with room service or the Lido for dinner. The late seating is too hard on (my) stomach.

[MERIDIAN]

I think what luvmybxr meant was that the luxury cruise ships such as crystal,silversea etc.. can seat their entire passenger load in one sitting if NEED BE-most of those ships were designed to do a one sitting meal due to their low passenger counts, they can easily handle stragglers coming to the dining room at any time consequently they can offer atyw dining without penalty.

[HeatherInFlorida]

..............

 

The first time we sailed on NCL (1992) on the Westward, we had traditional dining and the food was excellent. When we went back on NCL last year, it was horrible. ............

 

Our first and only cruise on NCL was on the Westward from New York to Bermuda in the early 90's. I don't recall the food that clearly, but I know I had no complaints. But we had traditional dining, a nice round table for 8, and we had one of the best cruises on that ship in my recollection.

 

It had formerly been a Royal Viking (Star or Sky???....Doug would know) ... a great ship, a fantastic cruise.

 

Based on that cruise we would have booked NCL again in a heart beat. But the Freestyle dining is the deal breaker for us ... that and the silly looking paintings on the hull:o .

[fcorey]

I think what luvmybxr meant was that the luxury cruise ships such as crystal,silversea etc.. can seat their entire passenger load in one sitting if NEED BE-most of those ships were designed to do a one sitting meal due to their low passenger counts, they can easily handle stragglers coming to the dining room at any time consequently they can offer atyw dining without penalty.

 

We've looked at other lines. What we liked about HAL is the smaller size. A Vista is about as large a ship as I am interested in. While I am a bit impressed with the technology of the RCCI leviathans, Freedom and the new genesis class, the sheer volume passengers amazes me. We thought that Cunard may be our next choice but after what I have read here I am not so sure. Celebrity seems appealing also, but if we are really to jump ship on an upcoming cruise it will likely be to try Oceania. A transatlantic getaway, but even then I am torn between that and a trans-canal on HAL. For us HAL has provided a good balance of the things we want and reasonable fares on mid-sized ships. The dining seating was never something I really considered a major factor before this thread. I'd be open to trying AYW out, why not, but I think I may end up missing the traditional for the people, seeing the same table mates and wait staff each evening, not because my drink is waiting etc.

[Rotterdam]

Nobody forces anyone to sit with folks they don't like with traditional seating either - if one doesn't care for their tablemates, all one has to do is ask the Maitre'd to move you. I frankly don't see "Freestyle" resolving this issue at all.

As far as getting to know your waitstaff, it's nice to have one or two folks who remember your name, your preferred drink, etc. - regardless of their motivation (for which I'm perfectly happy to tip extra for their efforts.) - Just as it's nice to know your banker, your postman, your building manager, the checkout lady at the grocers, the lady at the dry-cleaners, etc... In a world where one is too often treated like a number rather than a person, it's the little interpersonal niceties that make cruising "Traditional-Style" a pleasure and a joy for many of us.

 

I really liked the set seattings & having the option to order from room service on those days in port or just wanting to relax in the suite.

 

All of the cruise lines have cut staff so much the service is rushed at best,,,the training is lacking & the food...well thats another subject. If HAL had more staff it certainly would improve the situation...we have not had a knowledgeable wine steward on HAL line in years(on the Noordam - the poor guy couldn't answer any of our questions & for some funny reason each of the 4 nites in the DR he suggested the most expensive wine on the list??????). The overworked area mtr'd worked so hard we felt terrible for him...but he was fighting a losing battle...again he did not have enough staff! All I want is some hot decent food, a bottle of wine & water with my meal in a somewhat timely manner..not too much to ask.

 

The lines now have a mentality of push em in & push em out. HAL is hardly a 5 star line or whatever sayoing they have come up with in their advertising. So next time we go we will be making it easy on ourselves...no diningroom! WE eat ashore at great restaurants & have casual lido & room service while at sea.

 

Even the specialty restaurant is lacking....better than the DR but hardly worth the surcharge...the food was better but the servoce so so....oh to go to sea...

[hammybee]

I think what luvmybxr meant was that the luxury cruise ships such as crystal,silversea etc.. can seat their entire passenger load in one sitting if NEED BE-most of those ships were designed to do a one sitting meal due to their low passenger counts, they can easily handle stragglers coming to the dining room at any time consequently they can offer atyw dining without penalty.

 

Here's the scoop on the higher end:

 

Crystal: 2 fixed/assigned seatings, 6:30 and 8:30 and 7 and 9:00, in Europe

Oceania: Open Seating 6-9:30

Regent: Open Seating 8-10

Seaborn: Open Seating 7:30-10:30

Sea Dream: Open Seating 6-10

Silver Sea: Open Seating 7:30-9PM

Windstar: Open Seating 7:30-9:30

[HeatherInFlorida]

.......................

All of the cruise lines have cut staff so much the service is rushed at best,,,the training is lacking & the food...well thats another subject. If HAL had more staff it certainly would improve the situation.......................

 

I wouldn't say "all" .... on the contrary, I have found Celebrity consistently not to be rushed at all. On our last 3 Celebrity cruises our waiter had only 3 to 4 tables. We had plenty of time to talk, he knew all our names, it was very relaxed. And this wasn't true at just our table. Everyone compared notes trying to decide who had to best waiter!

 

Not saying Celebrity excels in every area, but in the dining room they are lightyears ahead of HAL.

 

But as far as HAL is concerned, I would completely agree.

[AirGorilla]

Look at the premium cruises like Silversea that have gone to open seating and you can see that their cuisine and service did not suffer. What HAL has done is gave us the option of HAL's better service and smaller ships and open dinning with out having to settle for either NCL's and Princess’s inferior service, larger crowded ships and poor cuisine

 

I wouldn't be so quick to characterize Princess as having "inferior service, larger crowded ships and poor cuisine." We sailed on the Caribbean Princess last month, and I assure you that the service was not inferior to HAL's. I can also assure you that the Princess cuisine was superior to what I last experienced on HAL. This particular Princess ship is huge, but, interesting, did not feel crowded (the Zuiderdam felt more crowded to me).

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

Our first and only cruise on NCL was on the Westward from New York to Bermuda in the early 90's. I don't recall the food that clearly, but I know I had no complaints. But we had traditional dining, a nice round table for 8, and we had one of the best cruises on that ship in my recollection.

 

It had formerly been a Royal Viking (Star or Sky???....Doug would know) ... a great ship, a fantastic cruise.

 

Based on that cruise we would have booked NCL again in a heart beat. But the Freestyle dining is the deal breaker for us ... that and the silly looking paintings on the hull:o .

 

When we chose to sail on NCL Crown last year, it was because we LOVE Bermuda and prefer the older, smaller ships. We had an idea, from reading the boards, about freestyle and thought we were prepared. The fact that the service in the dining room was non-existent; the food was horrible; and having dressed up (not quite as formal on our other X, HAL, Princess cruises). We were not happy to be seated at dinner next to a table with people in jeans, tank-tops. What sealed it for me was after 5 days of seeing people walking around the ship and bathing suits, and dressing in shorts to the lounges and shows at night, was when I took my son to get some lunch in the buffet area with a sarong wrapped around my bathing suit, and being told that "I needed to dress to get food!" I started laughing so much that I think the lady thought I was nuts, I just took my son and continued to get him something to eat. I am worried if NCL went downhill so fast because of freestyle, that others will follow, and then what is left? But that's just MPO.

[DeepWaterMariner]

We sailed NCL before and after Freestyle cruising was introduced. I'm not sure if the food was worse, the same, or better but there were more options for dinning. NCL would never be our first choice, in fact they are probably tied for last, but we enjoyed the change from our normal regimented cruise dinning. Our Freestyle experience was on one of their oldest ships which wasn't built for the Freestyle concept. There were two main dinning rooms serving the same food. I got turned away one evening for wearing jeans but jeans were allowed in the Italian restaurant so we ate there. To make up for the shortcomings of a ship with fewer dinning rooms there were a couple to terrific barbecues on deck which did the trick for us on a couple of evenings. I'm the first person to admit that this wasn't the best dinning experience of our long cruise history, but it was fun having the choices and we'll probably do it again on one of NCL's newer ships just for a change of pace. BTW, our wine steward on our last Celebrity cruise turned our entire table against him by taking great liberties in pushing wine more expensive than any of us desired...we would have all rather done without a wine steward.

[mchell810]

...

 

What the Lido does give us (AYW crowd) is flexibility in too early (5:45 & 6:15) or too late (8:15 & 8:30) dining times, but is not what we prefer.

 

...

 

What everyone appears to miss and the cruise lines have discovered is that alot of us would accept "Traditional" just not at the times offered. ... What "AYW" gives us is choices. We can choose to relax after a day of excursions prior to dining, go early and attend the entertainment, or eat late and sleep late because it is a sea day. [highlight]AYW TAKES NOTHING AWAY FROM THOSE THAT OPT FOR TRADITIONAL.[/highlight] I do not understand those that are opposed as they still get traditional ...

 

I reallly have to agree here. HAL is trying to please as many people as they can by offering choices. I don't see how AYW hurts traditional. Even when you choose traditional you don't always get what you want. I just returned from the Oosterdam (7/14 sailing). My husband and I selected a table for 2, but were assigned a table for 4. We ate in the Lido the first night until we could be assigned a table for 2 (no offense, we just didn't want to be with strangers). My husband and I loved going to the dining room, but when we were not ready to eat for the early seating we choose the Lido because we could go when we were ready. Isn't that what vacation is all about?

[Copper10-8]

.........It had formerly been a Royal Viking (Star or Sky???....Doug would know) ... a great ship, a fantastic cruise......

 

Royal Viking Star was built by Wartsila Shipyards in Helsinki, Finland for Royal Viking Line and completed in 1972. Royal Viking Line was acquired by Kloster (NCL) but Royal Viking Star initially kept her identity. In 1990/1991 however, she was transferred to the Norwegian Cruise Lines' fleet and renamed Westward for New York-Bermuda and Carib cruises. She was then transferred to Royal Cruise Lines in 1994 and renamed Star Odyssey. Sold to Fred Olsen Cruise Lines in 1996, she became Black Watch. She remains there today under that name as their flagship.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I think what luvmybxr meant was that the luxury cruise ships such as crystal,silversea etc.. can seat their entire passenger load in one sitting if NEED BE-most of those ships were designed to do a one sitting meal

Crystal has two seating dining so they certainly can't seat everyone at once.

 

The other ships were designed specifically for open seating, not single seating. None of these lines has ever had single seating.

 

I am worried if NCL went downhill so fast because of freestyle, that others will follow, and then what is left?

Without getting into a discussion on whether NCL went downhill or not, what makes you think it is open seating that made them go downhill?

 

Surely it is entirely possible that they went downhill (if they did) for some other reason?

 

I think you have a false correlation there. NCL may have gone downhill and adopted open seating but that doesn't mean NCL went downhill because it adopted open seating.

[fsalzer]

Without getting into a discussion on whether NCL went downhill or not, what makes you think it is open seating that made them go downhill?

 

Surely it is entirely possible that they went downhill (if they did) for some other reason?

 

I think you have a false correlation there. NCL may have gone downhill and adopted open seating but that doesn't mean NCL went downhill because it adopted open seating.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

 

Fred

[dougnewmanatsea]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Exactly :) .

 

The fact is that open seating has been adopted across the whole spectrum of the cruise industry from the cheapest to the most expensive lines. It does not automatically mean poor food and service any more than it automatically means excellent food and service. It is quite possible to provide good food and service on a ship with open seating and it is most definitely possible to provide awful food and service on a ship with two seatings. I certainly can understand why people prefer one or the other but if the food and service is bad that is just a badly run ship and I don't care what kind of seating it has.

[RevNeal]

I think the correlation they're trying to draw is that, with an already understaffed ship (i.e., the greedy Lines are trying to save money by cutting staffing levels), by shifting to an inherently more labor-intensive method of serving people across a broader range of hours (indeterminate Anytime, Freestyle As You Wish, etc.) there is simply no way that the staff can cope and, hence, service levels and food quality will drop. I think they also combine this with the observation that these ships are not designed to accommodate this kind of dining system -- they're designed for Traditional. While the second observation is accurate, it is also possible that the current configurations can be adapted, so that's probably a neutral point.

 

Several assumptions are being made here, not all of which are as simple as the logical fallacy that was cited. However, even if the assumptions were all substantiated to a sufficient degree as to say they were "proved," it still wouldn't mean that their analysis of the context is correct. It MAY be true that service/quality/etc went down on NCL because of the introduction of Freestyle ... or it may be that the change was either neutral to the decline or, indeed, may have kept it from falling further than it did. A connection between the factors sited and the presumed decline hasn't been sufficiently substantiated.

 

I write the above not being a fan of NCL's system, and at best ambivalent about the introduction of AYW on HAL. HOWEVER ... will AYW spell the death of HAL? I don't think so. Rotterdam, and some others, have in the past stated that they think HAL died back in 1990 (or thereabouts). I don't know. It's certainly not the same HAL, today, that I first started sailing with in 1994 ... in some ways it is BETTER, while in other ways it is not. But to assert that adding AYW to Traditional will necessarily destroy the line, or drag down the clientele-base, or turn the damships into floating McDonalds, or whatever, is to engage in hyperbole of a very rarefied form. It is one thing to express fear or apprehension or dissatisfaction over this change; it is another thing to say that thus-and-such must happen as a result. Indeed, EVEN IF IT DID HAPPEN on NCL, as described, that doesn't mean it will happen on HAL too.

[Rotterdam]

There is a lot to this equation beyond staffing & timing....with the change in business since the 1970's, the bottom line ruled & society has changed - so the bean counters have the final say in decisions instead of hotel/ restaurant staff onboard...this brought about the decline of quality.

 

Yes I have sailed w/ HAL since the mid 1970's - the old HAL is gone - but since I love the sea I have to stop dwelling on the past. I now go with less dress clothes & expect less of the service levels...I enjoy the aft pool & promenade deck..this is not what the lines sell. BUt I found I prefer not to hoarded about w/ the masses.

 

To get a glimpse of the old service levels one has to sail w/ Regent & Seabourn. Unfortunately the lines all seem the same....when you sailed on Rotterdam V - you knew you were on that ship & could not be mistaken for the FRANCE or QE2. The same is for hotels - if you stay at a Four Seasons or Hilton - for the most part - they are decorated the same in Asia as they are in Europe or Hawaii......

 

NCL use to be a good cruise line along with Home Lines..but management changed(as did Princess). The only good thing I can say about Carnivore is that they saved the QE2 for us to enjoy for years. Cunard was a mess & Carnivoe kept that line afloat. Unfortunately The Farcus decor has spread like Poisin Ivy all thru the lines. We tried NCL a couple of years ago - the Dawn...they had plenty of restaurants but for the most part we ate in 2 because they had the best service..and this was when I was onboard as a VIP & the F&B Mgr visited us regularly. We have not been back.

 

Many people started to cruise to get that special vacation - to dress up, dance across an ocean & perhaps see the stars iin the sky. The cruise lines have made a mass market vacation & maximizes profits through staff cuts & F&B changes.

 

For a few years on these boards people would type in that they felt they were wronged by the lines for one reason or another. That stemmed from the practice of the old management making sure to keep their repeat passengers happy & the genuine (old fashioned) belief that the companies are honored to have customers using their product. Quality was the best from the time you made your reservation to the time you returned home. This has all gone the way of cocktail rings & fur stoles.....

 

I would like to see efficient service at all levels, a living wage / salary for staff & truth in advertising.

 

My partner & I are in our late 40's & feel we were not ready for Seabourn..but now will sail with them & Regent. Other than perhaps one more QE2 cruise we'll be sailing less...

[MrLee]

I don't find dining to be the difference between a good cruise or (if there is such a thing) a bad cruise but the only bad experiences I've had with dining were on HAL and Celebrity.

 

On the Ryndam, my wife and I had a table for two and the waiters were so busy with the larger tables that we sat for over an hour and never even got a menu. We gave up and ate in the buffet. The next night it was exactly the same story (and I timed it) we gave up after an hour. We ate the rest of that 14 day cruise in the buffet.

 

On Zenith, we were assigned a table for four and when we showed up the other "lady" was so obnoxious about the fact that she didn't get a table for two that we gave it to her. The Maitre 'd was nice enough to find us another table the following night.

 

Give me anytime dining anytime so maybe I can at least sit in the dining room and enjoy a meal with my wife!

[terrydtx]

I wouldn't be so quick to characterize Princess as having "inferior service, larger crowded ships and poor cuisine." We sailed on the Caribbean Princess last month, and I assure you that the service was not inferior to HAL's. I can also assure you that the Princess cuisine was superior to what I last experienced on HAL. This particular Princess ship is huge, but, interesting, did not feel crowded (the Zuiderdam felt more crowded to me).

 

Ever since Princess was bought by Carnival it has lost the premium line class it once had. Was on the Coral Princess 2 years ago and it was the worst cruise I had ever been on. Worst than either of the 2 Carnival cruises I have been on. Nothing but kids and young singles. The food was terrible and the service was not much better than a 3 star hotel.

[AirGorilla]

Ever since Princess was bought by Carnival it has lost the premium line class it once had. Was on the Coral Princess 2 years ago and it was the worst cruise I had ever been on. Worst than either of the 2 Carnival cruises I have been on. Nothing but kids and young singles. The food was terrible and the service was not much better than a 3 star hotel.

 

Perhaps things have improved over the last two years!! Or, maybe the Coral Princess doesn't measure up to the Caribbean Princess.

 

I still stand by my earlier comment.

[DeepWaterMariner]

Yes I have sailed w/ HAL since the mid 1970's - the old HAL is gone

 

I've been hearing this since our first HAL cruise in 1971. Back then people were carping about the replacement of the Dutch stewards with Indonesians. If I recall the problem back then was the bottom line too. Without the change HAL probably would not have survived past the mid 1970's. I don't dispute Rotterdam's argument that HAL isn't the same as it use to be, but businesses have to meet the competition or die within their market. It is true that you can get better service and food on the deluxe lines, but competition has determine what that costs and it is more than most of us care to pay. You're fortunate to be able to afford to step up in class and I'm sure you'll love those lines. I certainly did with my one Seabourn cruise but I still find the mainstream lines a great value even though they aren't what they use to be...few businesses are.