Religious Expression on Cruises

[Orcrone]

Well said, Marc. Thank you.

 

Marie

Thank you Marie. BTW, I haven't been spending much time this last week on the board. You may have already posted, but I was wondering if you enjoyed your cruise.

 

Marc

[Vicar]

Orcrone,

 

I would love too, unfortunately there are a few other factors besides Easter.

 

Gf may not be able to get time off, Plus my daughter will be graduating HS in June and I will be shelling out big bucks for College and all that fun stuff.

 

Plus we do have plans for a cruise in November with friends.

 

I really would love to though, I think we would have the Z Rockin and Rollin *LOL*

[Orcrone]

Vicar,

 

I understand. My daughter is also entering her senior year of high school, with my other daughter four years behind. So it's going to be eight years in a row (hopefully) of college for me.

[FlorenceItaly]

Hi Marc - I did post a mini review and some random thoughts. I suppose it is a few pages back. I had a wonderful time. ALASKA is GORGEOUS!!!!!!!

 

I hope to cut my time back on the board. In fact, I am in the process of unsubscribing myself to all the "cruise deal" websites that appear in my mailbox daily...just don't need the temptation :). I met some wonderful people on the Veendam, and we talked about a reunion cruise in June on the Conquest, but dh says no go(rightly so)....already have 3 booked and that is enough. If we weren't already committed to friends I would cancel one of them.

 

I hope all is well with you and yours.

 

Marie

[Orcrone]

Marie,

 

Glad you had a great time. I'll have to look for that review. I went away with DW and our daughters to her family reunion this past weekend. We're trying to convince them to come out to VA for next year's reunion. Now that that's over the next thing we have to look forward to is the Maasdam. Under two months to go.

 

Marc

[RevNeal]

Dear Marc,

 

Thank you for your very kind, and very true, words.

[RevNeal]

Given the latest hurricane developments, I cannot help but wonder how much praying is going on. ;)

 

Perhaps some of our Native Americans brethren and sistren can perform some anti-hurricane dances ... or some such?

[AlinaMaria]

How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God. But then when we are desperate we all remember Him and ask for his always present Love and Mercy. For the first time I traveled on HAL last Feb on the Rotterdam and I will choose HAL as much as possible, I did go to Daily Mass, I found it such a spiritual uplift and relaxing way to start or end my day! Because of my job I don't get to go to Daily Mass often, the ability to do this on my 10 day cruise was a very special gift from God and from HAL. I had only had this same opportunity on a cruise on Celebrity Cruises where a church group was travelling with their priest/spiritual director, they held Daily Mass and it was published on the dailies. As to praying at meals time, I chose praying in silence because I don't impose my faith on anyone, but when I have traveled with my church group or have dinner alone with my mother we do pray outloud but softly, and I do not feel embarrased to do the Sign of the Cross in public, I am not embarrased to show that I am a practicing Christian Catholic. This is one of the reasons my parents sacrificed their lives and future to bring their family from Cuba to the Land of Freedom!!!! Yes, I do read Christian books during my vacation, I do not find many other books that interest me, except for books on history and arts, and of course nursing (my profession) but reading nursing during vacation is not relaxing. I am presently a graduate student working on my Master in Pastoral Ministry and I find that there is such an inmense selection of good books!!! I do respect everyone's choice, including those that choose not to worship our Lord during their vacation, but I do expect that my right to Praise Him is respected too, that is why HAL and Costa will get most of my business.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

PS: Please pray for us in Florida during this difficult weekend when Hurricane Frances is approaching our beautiful state!

 

AlinaMaria

[Thoth]

How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God. But then when we are desperate we all remember Him and ask for his always present Love and Mercy. For the first time I traveled on HAL last Feb on the Rotterdam and I will choose HAL as much as possible, I did go to Daily Mass, I found it such a spiritual uplift and relaxing way to start or end my day! Because of my job I don't get to go to Daily Mass often, the ability to do this on my 10 day cruise was a very special gift from God and from HAL. I had only had this same opportunity on a cruise on Celebrity Cruises where a church group was travelling with their priest/spiritual director, they held Daily Mass and it was published on the dailies. As to praying at meals time, I chose praying in silence because I don't impose my faith on anyone, but when I have traveled with my church group or have dinner alone with my mother we do pray outloud but softly, and I do not feel embarrased to do the Sign of the Cross in public, I am not embarrased to show that I am a practicing Christian Catholic. This is one of the reasons my parents sacrificed their lives and future to bring their family from Cuba to the Land of Freedom!!!! Yes, I do read Christian books during my vacation, I do not find many other books that interest me, except for books on history and arts, and of course nursing (my profession) but reading nursing during vacation is not relaxing. I am presently a graduate student working on my Master in Pastoral Ministry and I find that there is such an inmense selection of good books!!! I do respect everyone's choice, including those that choose not to worship our Lord during their vacation, but I do expect that my right to Praise Him is respected too, that is why HAL and Costa will get most of my business.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

PS: Please pray for us in Florida during this difficult weekend when Hurricane Frances is approaching our beautiful state!

 

AlinaMaria

Amen to whay all you said! I go to the interdenominational service to just show thanks for allowed to get away on a cruise. That week does seem to help cleanse my spirit. My prayer for the good people of Florida is that none perish.

[digby]

"How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God."

 

 

What I think is sad that you or any other person would presume to judge another's spiritual condition or their relationship to God! Somehow I don't think God would approve.

[cruzincurt]

I need some help here to understand some of this. Can someone point out to me where in the bible it says that to pray to or to praise God you have to gather in a building specially built for the purpose or to attend mass? Perhaps it isn't fair for HAL to single out one religion, say Catholic, and offer mass every day?

 

Doesn't the bible instead say something like: "whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I am there?" Doesn't mention having to have a church building or a mass.

 

Then there is that deal about a camel passing through an eye of a needle?

[RevNeal]

This is a theological question, and only partly related to Cruising, but I'll go ahead and address it from within the context of my setting in ministry (i.e., a protestant United Methodist anglo-catholic).

 

I need some help here to understand some of this. Can someone point out to me where in the bible it says that to pray to or to praise God you have to gather in a building specially built for the purpose or to attend mass?

 

Firstly, there is nothing in Christian Scripture that says one has to gather in a building specially built for the purpose. Indeed, during the New Testament period the early Christians usually worshiped in the homes of their wealthier members (because those homes were larger).

 

Secondly, while it is certainly possible to pray, praise, and worship God on one's own, it is usually considered best to gather together with other Christians for these activities. For a scriptural reference to the importance of doing this, see especially Hebrews 10:24-25.

 

Thirdly, as is true among our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters, many Christian communities provide for the administration of the Sacraments (and, particularly, Holy Communion) only within the context of the representative ministry (i.e. priesthood). Those who are not a part of such a denomination don't, generally, understand or appreciate the importance of this for Christians within such communities.

 

Perhaps it isn't fair for HAL to single out one religion, say Catholic, and offer mass every day?

 

Quite the contrary, questions of "fairness" have nothing to do with it ... it's their fleet of ships, they can offer whatever religious services the please. And, quite frankly, they DO. HAL provides options for many religious expressions on board, not just Roman Catholicism. For instance, I'm a volunteer Protestant Chaplain for the line; on cruises of longer than 7-days HAL provides passage for protestant clergy in return for them serving chaplain duties, including pastoral care, preaching, leading prayer services and Bible studies, and even celebrating the Lord's Supper for those protestants who wish it. For cruises which occur over Jewish Holy Days, the line will do the same for a Rabbi so as to enable such worship services; otherwise, Sabbath services are often held by those who wish it.

 

Doesn't the bible instead say something like: "whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I am there?" Doesn't mention having to have a church building or a mass.

 

No, it doesn't ... but the traditions of many Christians include public worship and the observance of the Sacramental Means of Grace. While many don't seem to share this need, many others do. Why would one object ... as you seem to be?

 

Then there is that deal about a camel passing through an eye of a needle?

 

Yes, indeed. And how do you understand the theological meaning behind that teaching of the Rabbi from Nazareth? Consider carefully what he said, and then consider the luxury cruises we take. :)

[cruzincurt]

Revneal,

 

Thank you for your kind reply. My point I was trying to make was that many people feel the need to demonstrate their belief's to others such as discussed in the thread about praying and holding hands at the dinner table. I try to lead an honest and ethical life; for me, that is praising God for the bounty He has given to me. Many of my acquaintances tell me I'm condemed if I don't attend church (a building). And I certainly understand the opportunity to share in the fellowship associated with gathering with others to share a common experience.

 

I think it is outstanding that HAL, a commercial business, has chosen to provide outlets for their customer's spiritual needs.

 

As for this discussion being off the topic of cruising, people seem to have the need to start such a thread. I wonder what their true intent is for starting the discussion. Are they trying to show that they take their religion with them while the rest of us drink and gamble?

[CDRMark]

Oh Lord, Thy ocean's so large, and my boat is so small.

 

http://members.dsli.com/schooner/triumph

[RevNeal]

My point I was trying to make was that many people feel the need to demonstrate their belief's to others such as discussed in the thread about praying and holding hands at the dinner table.

 

Some people do ... that is true. Not all, and even not all of those who are otherwise involved in organized religious practices on cruises. I don't believe in imposing my religious expression, uninvited, upon others.

 

I try to lead an honest and ethical life; for me, that is praising God for the bounty He has given to me. Many of my acquaintances tell me I'm condemed if I don't attend church (a building). And I certainly understand the opportunity to share in the fellowship associated with gathering with others to share a common experience.

 

Sounds to me as though you're doing what you need to do; as for what others think you should be doing ... lots of people have their own ideas, and while they may very well be correct and right for them, they're not necessarily correct and right for anyone else. My guess is that it's not so much the building that these people are interested in you attending as it is a particular portion of the "body of Christ." But I'm saying that based not on actual knowledge of these people, just of their "type." I often have people tell me I'm going to hades because I'm not worshiping with them, or as they worship. I ignore them.

 

I think it is outstanding that HAL, a commercial business, has chosen to provide outlets for their customer's spiritual needs.

 

I agree. It's among the reasons I continue to do business with them ... and not just because I happen to get an occasional free cruise out of it. :D

 

As for this discussion being off the topic of cruising, people seem to have the need to start such a thread. I wonder what their true intent is for starting the discussion. Are they trying to show that they take their religion with them while the rest of us drink and gamble?

 

I started this thread. As I stated in the beginning, it was begun because the question of holding hands in prayer was brought up on another thread where emotions were tender due to the death of a loved one. I felt the need to run a blind poll to enable people, if they so wished and under the cover of anonymity, to share their own opinions and preferences with the whole board. As someone whose full time vocation is to religious ministry, it's a subject I find interesting on an academic as well as personal side. I enjoy meeting all sorts of wonderful people from all sorts of walks of life; be they religious or not, people -- and especially people on cruises -- are great to meet and get to know. Given how important one's religion -- or lack thereof -- can be to people, I thought I'd address the question directly but in as non-threatening a way as possible. I'm sorry if you took my poll and thread as an attempt either at spiritual one-up-manship or judgmentalism. :)

[Guest Anorak33]

I must "plead guilty" to starting the other thread/poll on praying before meals.

 

Cruzncurt posted:

"As for this discussion being off the topic of cruising, people seem to have the need to start such a thread. I wonder what their true intent is for starting the discussion. Are they trying to show that they take their religion with them while the rest of us drink and gamble?"

 

I really don't see that I have done that - I am not any sort of "Born-again" Christian, actually a very badly lapsed Catholic. I don't have any religion to take on a cruise.

 

I must admit I don't gamble ( don't have lots of money to probably lose) but I certainly enjoy a drink or three especially on a cruise when i don't have to drive home.

 

I was just interested to develop some ideas which came from a thread on here which it would have been in bad taste to continue on that particular thread.

 

The results of my poll and that of the RevNeal were interesting and especially RevNeal's were not what he or I expected.

 

As I understood the polls they showed (to put it briefly) that quite a few members take part in some sort of religious activity on board yet only a quarter would be comfortable with praying before meals.

 

No, my total religious experience on board any ship has been of sharing a dinner table with the chaplain on QE2 (No obvious praying before meals on his part!) and sharing a hottub on Statendam with the chaplain on that ship - who was better known by most passengers for his quizzes than his services.

 

So my "true intent" was to find out how my fellow members felt about the topic in as even-handed and neutral way as possible.

 

That's it!

[RevNeal]

No, my total religious experience on board any ship has been of sharing a dinner table with the chaplain on QE2 (No obvious praying before meals on his part!)....

 

If Cunard has similar guidelines a does HAL, that would not be unusual. We are "encouraged" (i.e., directed) to not be pushy or imposing, but to be willing to lead or participate in such settings. In other words, when identified as the ship's protestant Chaplain I am sometimes asked to offer grace before meals. Not always, however ... and when I'm not asked, I am not supposed to offer. :)

[imsulin]

Hey, Revneal..."A Mighty Fortress Is Our God"...whether that be a cruise ship (my first choice), a church/temple/tabernacle/synagogue/mosque/shrine (don't go very often), or the privacy within which we practice the right things to do and be.

 

(Ya gotta love Martin Luther! My favorite hymn!)

 

Revneal...you're my guy!

[Guest]

I am jewish and have gone to a service on HAL.It is on Friday nights.I also say my prayers every day and night.

[vijoge]

I have never attended a religious service while on a cruise. I guess maybe I've never said Grace before a meal (silently or otherwise), either. But I have, on numerous occassions, looked out across the sea at a particularly gorgeous sunset and the only words that came to my mind were "How great Thou art". Can't wait to see the glory of His handiwork in alaska next summer!

[kryos]

"How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God."

Man, I only wish I could find the time (and energy) to go to services as much as I did on the Zuiderdam! The reason? Simple. I had the time/energy and desire to worship and feel close to my God.

 

Sadly ... and, yes ... this is probably a lame excuse ... but when I am home, I rarely get the opportunity to go to services ... and I realize I am cheating myself. Oh, my intentions are good. I go to work on Saturday night (I work graveyard shift ... including weekends) and I say to myself, "I'm gonna go to some sort of services tomorrow morning!" Especially if I am feeling sad or depressed, just the thought of going will cheer me up. But then the night progresses ... various problems and issues arise at work ... stress builds ... and by morning, I'm exhausted. "Well, I'll go to services next week." Instead of the peace I know I can find in a house of God, I take my peace in my warm bed.

 

So, contrary to taking a vacation from God on my Zuiderdam cruise, I took one with him ... and had a great time in so doing.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Guest Celestia]

Interesting question. Been on an assortment of cruises and it has yet to come up, actually. *Have* been asked directly or indirectly what my religion is, but have found that sudden deafness solves this nicely without hurting anyone's feelings.

 

I think it's nice the ship offeres services for those who want them. They were held in various areas of the ship I had no need of visiting during those times, so it seemed a win-for-all situtation to me.

 

However, if asked by tablemates to join them in prayer/grace, I'd be talking to maitre'd immediately after the meal for a new table assignment. Not making a fuss, mind you, and not saying anything to the prayerful tablemates, who have every right to worship as they please also, just getting myself moved to a different table.

 

FW&FS,

 

C

[kryos]

However, if asked by tablemates to join them in prayer/grace, I'd be talking to maitre'd immediately after the meal for a new table assignment. Not making a fuss, mind you, and not saying anything to the prayerful tablemates, who have every right to worship as they please also, just getting myself moved to a different table.

LOL ... wouldn't that be a bit "overkill?" How about a simple "no thanks, I'm not interested?" If your tablemates ask you to join them, they are probably just making an extra special effort not to leave you out. If you politely refuse, I'm sure they wouldn't ask again. Getting yourself moved could cause you to lose out on some stimulating dinner conversation ... and maybe making a whole lot of new friends who wouldn't care beans about whether or not you wish to pray before dinner.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Guest Celestia]

Note, I didn't say I'd get up and ask for another table RIGHT NOW (that would be overkill), just ask the MD to find me another table for the remainder of the cruise. If it took a couple nights, I wouldn't freak out over it, either. We've also asked to be moved when our companions couldn't find anything at all they liked about the ship/cruise/ports of call/each other (apparently) because their constant negativity was spoiling *our* dinners.

 

Overkill? Asking for a different table when I've discovered I'll be uncomfortable (for two reasons) at the one I'm assigned?

 

Don't think so. The question of saying grace (I'm not comfortable with others' public displays of religion) aside, I'm not one for handshaking or hand-holding in most cruise situtations. I'm just back one week ago today from Circle Hawaii on the Statendam, and despite best efforts, a good half the ship were ill either on board on or disembarking day, due to one couple who got on *knowing* (yes, I heard this from their very own mouths) they probably had the flu, but 'we don't have travel insurance so we'd be out all this money'. Well thanks folks...I came down with it the last morning, and have lost a week's work due to it. Today was the first day I was well enough to even think about leaving the house for a couple hours.

 

(If you fit the profile, and you're thinking about it, go get a flu shot, this one's not fun, folks! My Dr. now tells me if he'd known I was going on a cruise he'd have gotten me one somehow.).

 

So you see, I'd be spoiling *their* grace, 'cause I'm not going to 'just do' the hand holding thing, and I'd be uncomfortable at table with them. I'm sure I'll find equally scintillating conversation at whatever table the M'D finds for me, and that he will find them compatible dining companions as well.

 

FS&FW,

 

C

[Sea Island Lady]

I voted "Pray silently in stateroom."

 

The truth is... I have never seen where a religious venue is offered. We are Methodist and go to church regularly. I have to admit that we skip the prayer at meals on the ship and at restaurants, but I am going to make an effort to do that this next trip because we never miss saying prayers at home.

 

Whenever I cruise, I thank God everyday that I am there at sea. :)