HAL Cancelling Noordam Cruises from NYC November 2008 (Merger of Several Threads)

[hammybee]

It actually blew me away and showed me that Holland America is not the premium-priced cruise line I had thought it was.

 

Sometimes they are and sometimes not. They are competitively priced in hyper competitive markets, like Alaska, Caribbean, Mexico and increasingly in Europe where they tend to make up for pricing with onboard spending.

 

Longer sails/ unique intineraries command a premium.

 

HAL is the cruise line with two heads.:)

[sail7seas]

Pulling out of the NYC market in the winter is almost a no brainer. I am glad they took this action instead of reducing the crew/ service and diminishing the experience.

 

I so agree, Hammy.

 

I am so much happier to see them relocate Noordam to FLL than to diminish the experience on that beautiful ship. How sad that would be. That ship and her crew are way too special for that.......all HAL ships are too special for that! IMO......

[hammybee]

Travelocity lists some of the cains that are available. I have never been able to get them to list all of the ones we are interested in.

 

No web site shows all the cabins available for a given cruise. To do so is akin to showing your hand in a game of poker.

[hammybee]

It's the lack of information and conflicting information coming from Seattle that appears to be frustrating many of us.

 

I understand.

[Frick_&_Frack]

Pulling out of the NYC market in the winter is almost a no brainer. I am glad they took this action instead of reducing the crew/ service and diminishing the experience.

 

I still just wish they would have kept a ship here for a few months for a series of R/T out of NYC. They could have had Europe in the Summer, Fall/Spring (parts of them at least) in NYC and the worst weather months in FLL.

 

Hopefully, they will do as they did once before, pull out and come back in two years time...

[sail7seas]

:) And I am still wishing, all these years later, they would leave one ship in the Caribbean 12 months a year. I never lose hope it might happen again during my lifetime. But chances are looking very slim!

[Frick_&_Frack]

:) And I am still wishing, all these years later, they would leave one ship in the Caribbean 12 months a year. I never lose hope it might happen again during my lifetime. But chances are looking very slim!

 

I *used* to wish that; but with a DH who will not go on a plane and parents who can't, I'll settle for NYC so I can keep my cruising habit going! ;)

[hammybee]

 

 

I would like to know where you got these statistics (such as they are). I do not believe you are correct that the majority of TAs work from home ... not saying none do, but I don't think the majority do. And even those that do have access to their computers just as they would in an office situation. Working from home doesn't make people stupid :).

 

From The Unofficial Guide To Cruises, 2007 edition reprinted in many newspapers:

 

"Mom and Pop travel agencies have dropped from 33,000 in 2001 to about 17,000 in 2004, and some predict there will be fewer than 5,000 by the end of the decade. Meanwhile, the number of home-based travel agents has skyrocketed, and now account for one-third of all cruise sales. They are expected to reach half a million agents before the decade ends."

Licening requirements/start-ups costs are very low and attract people looking to suppliment their primary incomes. The majority of travel agents are part timers. The majority of agents selling cruises have never been on a cruise ship, unless they are located near a port.

 

Despite all of this, there are indeed some excellent agents out there who look out for their client's best interests. Clearly some travel agents are on top of this situation, else we would not be aware of it.

[jaja]

OK- Today I tried to find my booked cruise on my online TA site and found it gone..:(

Oct.29 2008 --so I came back here to find this thread..

I am devasted-this was a special occasion cruise-and just can't be "replaced" by just any cruise (esp. out of NYC where options are slim)

I have a call into the agent-no reply yet...

 

It is 9/28 and from what I have read on this thread-news has been out there for days..and no one contacted me ...can I assume others are also having this problem?

They are one of the biggest online TAs going-and I find it impossible that they did not know (esp since they are no longer listing my cruise !) and contact me....

I feel they owe me a big explanation!:mad:

 

jaja

[cruisinbulldog]

If you check out the Maasdam for 2008 -- there is a cruise that has several sea days:

Ft Lauderdale

HMC

At Sea

St Thomas

Dominica

At Sea

Curaco

Aruba

At Sea

At Sea

Ft lauderdale

 

Yes several sea days.. But not sailing ou t of NYC!!:rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

Licening requirements/start-ups costs are very low and attract people looking to suppliment their primary incomes. The majority of travel agents are part timers. The majority of agents selling cruises have never been on a cruise ship, unless they are located near a port.

 

My former TA asked me repeatedly to become a 'home TA'. It was remarkably easy and he was so eager for me to do that as an extension of his office that it was an appealing idea. Thankfully, I came to my senses and decided that was not for me before I got involved in it. :)

[sail7seas]

jaja.......

 

I'm very sorry about your disappointment re: your cruise. I hope you are able to work out a suitable alternative.

 

[Frick_&_Frack]

It is 9/28 and from what I have read on this thread-news has been out there for days..and no one contacted me ...can I assume others are also having this problem?

They are one of the biggest online TAs going-and I find it impossible that they did not know (esp since they are no longer listing my cruise !) and contact me....

I feel they owe me a big explanation!:mad:

 

jaja

 

Jaja - not to take sides, but the TA may not have all the details. If you read the boards a bit, you'll see that as late as yesterday evening, some HAL reps were still giving out incorrect information. The communication on this has been a bit lacking. Just keep trying to get someone at your TA on the line and have them call HAL Seattle that can give a comprehensive response including your options.

[RevNeal]

If you all want a cruise with lots of sea days -- round trip from San Diego to Hawaii -- 5 days over to Hawaii and 5 days back!!

 

Agreed. I LOVE that cruise. I've done it twice, and will be happy to do it again ... and again ... and again. It's one of the few cruises where I can actually sit back, relax, and enjoy the transit to Paradise, nock myself out touring for 5 days, and then relax and unwind and rest from the touring for 5 days in transit back to the mainland.

[RevNeal]

I just took a look at current pricing for all sails departing from the NYC area in January-February. Here is the per diem range, across both months, for an inside cabin:

 

Cunard $110-130

 

NCL $100-109*

 

RCL $89-109

 

HAL $91-105

 

In the latter part of February, NCL switches to 7 day sails to the Bahamas.

 

On all but one sailing HAL is the low cost provider and has been all along, with the exception of the limited time sale NCL held awhile ago. None of the ships have sold out as to be expected given they are 3-4 months into the future. All prices are less than they were for 2006 sailings.

 

Reported spending habits of passengers, fuel costs and probable higher than average docking/ground costs along with the fares probably do not combine for a sufficiently profitable run.

 

The combination of 10-11 day intineraries, cold weather coming and going and the undesirability of flying into NYC in the winter/overnight hotel costs probably cause these sails to be unattractive to groups/charters and many potential cruisers who need to fly to a port.

 

Pulling out of the NYC market in the winter is almost a no brainer. I am glad they took this action instead of reducing the crew/ service and diminishing the experience.

 

Sad but true.

[jaja]

Jaja - not to take sides, but the TA may not have all the details. If you read the boards a bit, you'll see that as late as yesterday evening, some HAL reps were still giving out incorrect information. The communication on this has been a bit lacking. Just keep trying to get someone at your TA on the line and have them call HAL Seattle that can give a comprehensive response including your options.

 

Yes--BUT--all the affected Nordam cruises are off their site already !!!!! So they know...:confused:

[hammybee]

 

They are one of the biggest online TAs going-and I find it impossible that they did not know (esp since they are no longer listing my cruise !) and contact me....

I feel they owe me a big explanation!:mad:

 

jaja

 

All of the major online TA's ceased selling these cruises several days ago. The agencies knew. What is unknown is how long it takes for word to make its way to specific agents within each company and them to the consumers. The large agencies have hundreds of agents under their unbrellas.

 

All cruise lines have the right to change their intineraries, embarkation and destination ports at any time. In this case, the sails are a year or more into the future.

 

BTW, Celebtrity has a very nice sailing out of Bayone in late 10/08, Bermuda and Aruba. It does however, disembak in FLL.

[hammybee]

Yes--BUT--all the affected Nordam cruises are off their site already !!!!! So they know...:confused:

 

I have been saying this for days. The major agencies knew what was going down and it's their job to communicate with their clients.

And clearly some agents were communicating, else we would not know.

[jaja]

All of the major online TA's ceased selling these cruises several days ago. The agencies knew. What is unknown is how long it takes for word to make its way to specific agents within each company and them to the consumers. The large agencies have hundreds of agents under their unbrellas.

 

All cruise lines have the right to change their intineraries, embarkation and destination ports at any time. In this case, the sails are a year or more into the future.

 

BTW, Celebtrity has a very nice sailing out of Bayone in late 10/08, Bermuda and Aruba. It does however, disembak in FLL.

 

thanks for the info...I will have to do some investigating...as I prefer smaller ships and not to bother with airports and planes....my options are limited :(

[hammybee]

Sad but true.

 

I have been thinking some of these sailings were most likely to have a Park West @ Sea takeover of the Crows Nest, for VIP buyers, in an attempt to turn loser cruises into profitable ones. Time will tell.

[Frick_&_Frack]

thanks for the info...I will have to do some investigating...as I prefer smaller ships and not to bother with airports and planes....my options are limited :(

 

Options out of this area for smaller ships are limited. I know Celebrity and Princess have dedicated followings. We've done RCCL, CCL and NCL and will rotate with CCL and NCL.

 

My parents switched from the 10/18/08 Noordam to the Carnival Miracle for two sailings next year since they cannot fly and freestyle really isn't something they want to do.

 

I hope you can find a cruise that fits your needs. The initial shock is the worst part. (My parents book direct and HAL never contacted them either.)

[jaja]

Options out of this area for smaller ships are limited. I know Celebrity and Princess have dedicated followings. We've done RCCL, CCL and NCL and will rotate with CCL and NCL.

 

My parents switched from the 10/18/08 Noordam to the Carnival Miracle for two sailings next year since they cannot fly and freestyle really isn't something they want to do.

 

I hope you can find a cruise that fits your needs. The initial shock is the worst part. (My parents book direct and HAL never contacted them either.)

 

thanks..

as you can see from below-we have done the Miracle (we liked it) and are leaving next week on the NCL Crown--Bermuda...

maybe I will just have to go with the Miracle again next year..(it was just nice that Hal was longer and had a different itinerary....

[HeatherInFlorida]

Most large internet agencies (and probably many others as well) use the same booking engine. So the cruises are off their sites for new bookings.

 

It's quite another thing for the people who already booked to be notified. It would be a lot easier for HAL, who has a record of all the people booked on each cruise, to alert the agencies and from there the passengers on those cruises.

 

Is it for each individual agent or agency to search for cruises that have come off the search engine to see if they have clients booked on those cruises? I don't think so. That sort of seems to me like backing into a room.

 

I still completely fail to see why a marginal few here continue to blame the TAs instead of HAL. It is HAL who cancelled the cruises. It is, therefore, for HAL to find the best possible way to notify their passengers.

[hammybee]

Most large internet agencies (and probably many others as well) use the same booking engine. So the cruises are off their sites for new bookings.

 

It's quite another thing for the people who already booked to be notified. It would be a lot easier for HAL, who has a record of all the people booked on each cruise, to alert the agencies and from there the passengers on those cruises.

 

Is it for each individual agent or agency to search for cruises that have come off the search engine to see if they have clients booked on those cruises? I don't think so. That sort of seems to me like backing into a room.

 

I still completely fail to see why a marginal few here continue to blame the TAs instead of HAL. It is HAL who cancelled the cruises. It is, therefore, for HAL to find the best possible way to notify their passengers.

 

Sorry, I do not agree. The contract between a cruise line and travel agency does not provide for consumer- cruise line contact as it relates to the booking. Afterall, the cruise line is paying the agency a commission to offload the customer care function.

 

The typical agent is not holding hundreds of bookings. Most would be thrilled to have a few dozen bookings, at any point in time. Looking for changes in intineraries/ port time, prices and opportunities to upsell at a reduced price is a mark of a good agent. And more importantly, when the unexpected happens, ( charters/delays./cancellations/weather issues) the best agents roll up their sleeves and dig in.

 

One would think that agents would view this as an opportunity. Call the client/let them know their cruise has been cancelled and ask for a few days time to see if some form of "disappointment-inconvenience" compensation can be arranged. Problem solved.

[KAKcruiser]

I think that HAL has the ability to let everybody know about the cancellations. They have contacted me several times over the years in regard to increased taxes, change of ports, etc. It has been by fax or email.