Has Anyone Else Noticed???

[MrPete]

....with their "dormitory" studio cabins..all 100 sq feet of them' date=' they might draw a whole new bunch of cruisers who want that experience.......[/quote']

 

100 sq ft???!!!!! OMG!!!!! NO WAY!!!!! I could not sleep in a closet.

[dan40]

RCCL is following the Washington D.C. business model.

 

Spend more than you take in, in the mistaken belief that your beautiful but impractical, ideas, err, ships, are worth it.

 

They are also using logic like D.C.,

RCL has never, ever been anything but a mass market line. But they, "Won't discount cabins and dilute the brand!"

But they own Celebrity, always know as an upscale line. Not lux, but upscale from mass market. And they are very deeply discounting the X brand??

[i just got an offer of a 15 day Celebrity cruise for $53. per day, trans Canal]

So with 'X' they are sanding on the Crown Jewel, and with RCL, they are polishing the plastic. Good plan, very Governmental.

 

By the way, we have many cruises on RCL, and I really like the line [not as much as CCL]. But I like them for what they are not what they think they are or would like people to believe they are.

 

Dan

[gtalum]

I don't think Carnival would be permitted to buy NCL either.....

 

They had enough trouble overcoming anti-trust regulations when they took over Princess.....

 

You're probably right. NCL is very small' date=' though, so in the current climate it might be allowed.

 

I'm sure Carnival would be interested in some of their ships, however...but not necessarily the Epic......it's too bizarre, frankly......with it's "revolutionary" design.. But, who knows....with their "dormitory" studio cabins..all 100 sq feet of them, they might draw a whole new bunch of cruisers who want that experience.......

 

But, somebody has to do something about that hat thingie on top (or is it eyebrows?)....Looks like if they really applied the brakes, it would flip up on the bow......HA!!

 

Yeah, EPIC sure is an ugly boat. That forehead thing is hideous.

 

That said, I think CCL could only buy NCL to operate as a separate unit. The ships wouldn't work with Carnival's current fleet, or any of CCL's other lines' fleets. I think they would only want to buy if they can buy the entire company.

 

This is all fantasy anyway, of course. :)

[FloridaCruisinNewbies]

I wouldn't want to be paying that mortgage, would you?

 

 

 

 

.

 

But.... it is an AWESOME ship... you have to admit and give them props for that, at least!

[gtalum]

But.... it is an AWESOME ship... you have to admit and give them props for that, at least!

 

It's an awesome ship, but the timing is horrible. Carnival was prescient when they stopped playing the "biggest ship at sea" game. Maybe it was all planned, like when the USA basically put the USSR out of business with the arms race. :D

[FloridaCruisinNewbies]

I can understand RCCL wanting "price integrity" and doing away with many discounting practices. They have such heavy' date=' heavy debt with more on the way (Oasis' sister ship, Allure). How they are ever going to keep up with their debt will be interesting to watch.

 

I wonder, however, about trying to justify much higher fares on cruises that don't offer anything more than any other "mass-market" cruise. Sure, Cunard is higher priced...so is Seaborne, Silversea and others...but, they are luxury vessels and can charge luxury prices. They appeal to a certain "niche" market who will gladly pay the rates for the experience.

 

However, RCCL is not in the luxury market. Their ships are very nice and the cruise experience is a good one....but nowhere near the luxury niche.

They seem to keep playing around with onboard amenities, modifying their loyalty programs, showing preferential treatment for some suite passengers - using normally public deck areas and other actions trying to draw the "big spenders" onboard.

 

I wish them well but......

 

Meanwhile, Carnival continues to provide a wonderful cruise experience on beautiful ships. Their prices are great and discounts readily available to those who are vigilant. I've noticed very little cost cutting onboard...and nothing at all that detracts from the overall cruise. I believe that many of those methods are "behind the scenes" while they try to protect the vacation venue. Bar prices might have been raised a little, the room service menu has been modified a little, side dishes at dinner a little smaller (but, you can still order all you want), menus have been tweaked a little. Prices are a little higher than they were a few years ago but still well below RCCL and others.

They haven't loaded up on for-fee venues such as restaurants that have a service charge. The places where there are fees such as the specialty coffee/pastry concessions and the wonderful Supper Clubs are definitely optional and have had no effect at all on the other dining selections that are free.

 

I wish RCCL well........meanwhile, welcome to those RCCL folks who've decided to give Carnival a try.....I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.[/quote']

 

Uh oh! Is this scary or what? I AGREE with G'Ma Again!!! Well said!!

[Cruise Cat]

RCCL is following the Washington D.C. business model.

 

Spend more than you take in, in the mistaken belief that your beautiful but impractical, ideas, err, ships, are worth it.

 

They are also using logic like D.C.,

RCL has never, ever been anything but a mass market line. But they, "Won't discount cabins and dilute the brand!"

But they own Celebrity, always know as an upscale line. Not lux, but upscale from mass market. And they are very deeply discounting the X brand??

[i just got an offer of a 15 day Celebrity cruise for $53. per day, trans Canal]

So with 'X' they are sanding on the Crown Jewel, and with RCL, they are polishing the plastic. Good plan, very Governmental.

 

By the way, we have many cruises on RCL, and I really like the line [not as much as CCL]. But I like them for what they are not what they think they are or would like people to believe they are.

 

Dan

 

This makes me wonder how their capitalization contracts are structured. I wonder if it is on a per ship bases (kind of like how housing developers work)? So, maybe they get investors for each specific "project" and keep everything seperate for that ship the rest of it's life becuase it it tied to specific investors, bonds, etc. Might apply to the lines they have bought as well depending on how they financed the buyout. That would explain why they can really cut the price down on some ships/brands and not others (taking into account simple demand influences as well of course).

[CA27]

We were looking for a cruise out of NYC to celebrate my mother's 60th b-day this May. The choices were an 8-day Bahamas cruise on Carnival Miracle, a 5-day Bermuda cruise on RCCL Explorer of the Seas, and a 7-day Bermuda cruise on Norwegian Dawn.

 

While we would've like to have done RCCL (we really like their ships), it's hard to argue with the value you get for your money on Carnival. We were able to get a balcony on Carnival on an 8-day cruise for about $400 less than a balcony on RCCL's 5-day cruise to Bermuda. The Carnival price was about $250 less than NCL's 7-day Bermuda cruise. It was a no brainer. We had sailed on the Miracle last year (first time on Carnival) and really liked it, even though our itinerary was changed due to TS Hannah. We also like the fact that the Miracle made 3 stops as opposed to just being in Bermuda for 2-3 days.

 

Out of a group of 12, only 3 of us had sailed Carnival before, but at the time of booking Carnival was having a sale where they extended the past guest fares to the rest of our group, and that sealed the deal for us.

 

I think RCCL is hurting itself by pricing itself out of the range of its intended customer base. Also, I wish that these cruise lines would put more caribbean/bahamas-bound ships in the NYC area.

[KimberleyFL]

An annual friends cruise I take in September on Royal has increased 300 - 400 dollars since last year. That cruise will be sailing with out our group of 20 this year. Maybe we will go with Carnival next year. Our Inspiration this year is a test. From everything I have read I think we will have just as much fun.

 

I have cruised on both Carnival and RCI. I love the RCI ships (not because of the size and offerings like rock climbing, but for the elegant look of the ships). I have only been on Carnivals Fantasy class ships. I'm going on a Carnival Spirit Class ship (Legend) in September and I am very impressed by pictures of the Legend.

Although you will have a great time on the Inspiration (I've done it twice - was great), next time you may want to look into Carnivals ships in newer classes if you like more of an elegant style ship.

[dan40]

This makes me wonder how their capitalization contracts are structured. I wonder if it is on a per ship bases (kind of like how housing developers work)? So, maybe they get investors for each specific "project" and keep everything seperate for that ship the rest of it's life becuase it it tied to specific investors, bonds, etc. Might apply to the lines they have bought as well depending on how they financed the buyout. That would explain why they can really cut the price down on some ships/brands and not others (taking into account simple demand influences as well of course).

 

Regardless of how creatively their debt is structured, they need profit at the bottom line. Even before the market collapse, RCL's profit was only a small fraction of CCL's. And that was with higher prices AND full ships.

 

 

An empty cabin brings in $0.

A $1000.00 cabin sold at $100.pp brings in $200. plus onboard expenditures.

The debt load is an increasing constant, it cannot be paid with a decreasing variable.

 

Dan

[ikelmay]

I am looking forward to taking an RCCL cruise to be able to make a comparison - I find it amazing that RCCL seems quite happy to allow the Celebrity brand to discount (we've have a couple of amazingly priced Celebrity cruises) and yet the Royal Caribbean brand seems locked in at a stupidly high price point for the product.

 

I wonder too how the management strategy at CCL could have differed so much from both NCL and RCCL who have been playing the 'bigger is better' game. Ego tripping by CEO's and PR departments? After the first few runs of these monster ships, I'd hate to have to try and fill them week after week.

[Cruzman]

I honestly think it has more to do with their corporate culture and identity than anything else. And I'm not saying this to disparage any RC cruisers, but so much guff flies around Carnival being the Wal-Mart of cruising and calling it Carnivore Cruises, etc. that I don't think their corporate ego would allow them to cut their prices to Carnival's level as it goes against their identity and marketing plan. They say they offer a superior product (which is very much up for debate -- haven't sailed RC, so I can't say personally), so their prices are more expensive. We'll see how long it lasts ... they might be looking to pick up business from Seaborne or Seven Seas if everyone downgrades, but that marketshare is so small, I can't imagine it paying off. As the saying goes, the most expensive cabin is the one that's unoccupied.

 

The notion that RCCI has never reduced prices to fill their ships is just wrong. The cheapest cruise I ever went on was on the Grandeur of the Seas April 12,2003 out of New Orleans, 7 days. The total cost for the two of us in an OV cabin was $870.

 

Apparently, there has been a major shift in corporate policy since that time; and an ill conceived one IMHO. I am another who sees little (if any) difference in the product offered by Royal and Carnival. With that in mind, I haven't sailed on Royal since March of 2004 because they refuse to compete in the market place. Instead, I have cruised 17 times on cruise lines such as Carnival, Princess, HAL and Costa since my last Royal sailing. Unless and until, RCCI wakes up and decides to compete for my cruise dollars, It is unlikely that I will be sailing with them again.

[gtalum]

The fact is RCCL can't operate with lower average fares. Their debt load is simply too large, and growing.

[nbsjcruiser]

My wife and I love RCCL (to be honest we love Carnival too) but the RCCL cruises for the week that we are cruising were 400 more for a similar cruise. It also hurts that RCCL chooses not to cruise out of Galveston in the summer months...

 

We love RCCL as well. Equally loving to us is our money. So we priced a 7 day cruise, outside cabin, anywhere in Florida for late next February - 3 people outside cabin:

7 Night Western LOS - $3100 CAN

7 Night Eastern Oasis - $3900 CAN

6 Night IOS - $2900 CAN <-- 6 NIGHT

 

Carnival has far more departure ports to pick from, a broader range of ships and length and we eventually selected the Valor 7 day western - $1950 CAN

$1000 to $2000 cheaper than any RCCL ship. That's our air flights and/or spending money. RCCL has the huge ships and they need to fill them at a huge price. I've said this on the RCCL board - I fear for their future. Their timing with the big ships could not have come at a worse time. The funny thing is, their smaller ships like the Radiance or the Jewel are their most beautiful ships.

 

RCCL is simply too expensive for us right now.

[travelntreats]

Though many will disagree with me' date=' Carnival and RCI are basically the same product. Carnival just charges less.

 

Besides, RCI has that big new fancy ship to pay for. ;)[/quote']

Basically the same.... maybe, if you discount the rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, pool tables, Royal Promenade.... those items alone are a significant difference regarding activities CCL does not offer !

[gtalum]

Basically the same.... maybe, if you discount the rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, pool tables, Royal Promenade.... those items alone are a significant difference regarding activities CCL does not offer !

 

Depends on what you want, I guess. CCL's success relative to RCCL seems to indicate that those are not significant differences.

[terisu10]

I love cruisisng on Carnival. I would LOVE to try RCCL but everytime I go to book a cruise and compare the prices, I just cannot justify spending more. We just booked the Valor for May 31 and I am even more excited after reading some of the reviews. We have cruised in the middle of summer with the ship full of teenagers and in the winter when it was quiet and relaxed. I have no complaints. If RCCL ever matches Carnival prices I might consider - but I don't know - I really love those spacious Carnival balcony cabins :)

[Lib0007]

I would like to sail someday on one of RC's large ships . . . . but I would much rather take two Carnival cruises for the same price! The prices for the spring break cruises were over double what we paid for our upcoming Miracle cruise.

[dan40]

Basically the same.... maybe, if you discount the rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, pool tables, Royal Promenade.... those items alone are a significant difference regarding activities CCL does not offer !

 

Voyager class ships sailed, more than a dozen.

Rock walls climbed, none.

ice rinks, skated, none.

pool tables played, none.

Royal Promenade visits, many, many, lots, lots.

The alfresco tables at the English style Pub provide superb people watching and meeting.

RCL does many repositioning cruises, prices are very low on these cruises. That is our main interest.

 

Dan

[Kurbanfan]

Voyager class ships sailed, more than a dozen.

Rock walls climbed, none.

ice rinks, skated, none.

pool tables played, none.

Royal Promenade visits, many, many, lots, lots.

The alfresco tables at the English style Pub provide superb people watching and meeting.

RCL does many repositioning cruises, prices are very low on these cruises. That is our main interest.

 

Dan

 

You not only like the floating mall.....you spend time sitting there:p

For shame for shame for shame:p

I can't wait to sit and drink in the mall on the Mariner.........

[mizLORInj]

I did get my RC cruise to Bermuda discounted last year--OBC too.

The rock climbing wall was open maybe 2 or 3 times the entire cruise. Ice skating show was cool. Promenade was just ok IMO.

RC has been more expensive since I've been cruising (2003). But I work with loyal RC people who are diamond level with RC and swear they're the best. To each his own I guess!

I prefer a variety!

[scottyo72]

I wonder too how the management strategy at CCL could have differed so much from both NCL and RCCL who have been playing the 'bigger is better' game. Ego tripping by CEO's and PR departments? After the first few runs of these monster ships, I'd hate to have to try and fill them week after week.

 

Actually, for a while the biggest ship distinction passed between RCCL and Carnival. Epic, while big and unusual, will be NCL's first and only post-Panamax ship, and it is not as big as RCCL's Freedom Class, let alone the Oasis. Most of NCL's fleet is slightly larger than Carnival's Spirit Class and smaller than the Triumph Class.

[LADYBUG34113]

There have been TV news stations plugging for cruises and some are offering free airfare. A couple days after that, there was a news special about one Cruise Line that has cancelled an order for a new ship. Sorry, Can't remember it it was RCI or Norweigan. Some are hurting more than others. Carnival did the right thing by lowering their rates. Even looking at other cruise lines, no one compares to the prices of Carnival.

 

I think I will stay with Carnival. lol

[tinabinab]

We've cruised on both lines and agree that they are very comparable. I love cruising no matter what ship I am on - and being the bargainista that I am, will continue to go where the best value is. Thats really the bottom line and I hope that RCI's egotistical thinking of "not diluting the brand" will not lead to there eventually being no brand left to dilute.

[Cindy]

True....except NCL has a monster ship too' date=' over a billion $$$$...the "Epic".

[/quote']

 

That thing's a ship?:confused: I thought it was a poorly designed stadium pressbox plunked on top of something that floats. It just doesn't look like a ship to me!

 

We love RCCL as well. Equally loving to us is our money. So we priced a 7 day cruise, outside cabin, anywhere in Florida for late next February - 3 people outside cabin:

7 Night Western LOS - $3100 CAN

7 Night Eastern Oasis - $3900 CAN

6 Night IOS - $2900 CAN <-- 6 NIGHT

 

Carnival has far more departure ports to pick from, a broader range of ships and length and we eventually selected the Valor 7 day western - $1950 CAN

$1000 to $2000 cheaper than any RCCL ship. That's our air flights and/or spending money. RCCL has the huge ships and they need to fill them at a huge price. I've said this on the RCCL board - I fear for their future. Their timing with the big ships could not have come at a worse time. The funny thing is, their smaller ships like the Radiance or the Jewel are their most beautiful ships.

 

RCCL is simply too expensive for us right now.

 

I'm a soon-to-be "ship jumper" too. It all started with our summer family cruise out of LA. When my mom started looking around she realized she could save $7,000 by moving us to the Splendor from the Mariner. I was reluctant because I loved the Mariner, but that's certainly a lot of money and I didn't have a problem with the change of ships.

My big problem is I'm a creature of habit. We cruise a lot out of Galveston, and when we took our first cruise from there in 2002, The RCCL ships had balconies and the Carnival ships (with the exception of a handful of suites) didn't. Since in addition to being a creature of habit I'm also a balcony snob:o we sailed on the Rhapsody. Then Princess brought the Grand in, and we did that for 3 Spring Breaks, followed by the last 2 Spring Breaks on the Voyager. I never really considered the Conquest for the simple reason that I was sticking with what I know and am familiar with.

Now, however, I find myself with not one but 2 Carnival cruises booked! Every time I checked Voyager Spring Break 2010 pricing for the same JS category we had last week, the price has been stubbornly stuck at $2,500 PER PERSON! That's a HUGE chunk of change more than we paid this year, and $1,500 more than I booked a Cat. 11 on the Conquest for. Part of my problem is I'm limited to the expensive holiday sailings because of my job, but the thought of paying that kind of $$$ for a JS is ridiculous in my opinion.

Now remember, I'm a creature of habit and I like things that are familiar, so I do keep checking prices on the RCCL site, but at this point I'm not even sure I'd switch if I saw a comparable fare. When I think about it, I don't use many (any?) of the things that RCCL likes to charge top dollar for. I watch the ice show, but I don't use the skating rink. I don't rock climb, and I don't think it would be fair to the other passengers to subject them to a view of my soon-to-be 49 year old bottom going up a wall!:p I like wandering around the Royal Promenade, but at least half the time it's cluttered with sale tables which makes it just as crowded and hard to navigate as any other ship I've ever been on. And finally, even though I like things that are familiar, sometimes things can be too familiar. On our cruise last week, the ice show, the two production shows, the parade, the street party, and several of the guest entertainers were the same ones we saw last year. Maybe it's time to try something new!

The things that are important to me on a cruise are a balcony, a spacious cabin, decent food, good wine, and a reasonably quiet adult pool area. I've found those on Princess and RCCL, and I'm confident I'll find them on Carnival also! I'm sure there will be things I like and dislike, just like there are on the 2 lines I've sailed, but I'm looking forward to the experience!