Has Anyone Else Noticed???

[dclark]

I strongly suspect, like G'ma, that CCL would not be permitted to buy RCCL due to antitrust laws. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see CCL buy NCL though, which is much smaller and is also in big trouble.

 

Not true- if RCL were default on a loan payment, CCL not only would be allowed to buy up RCL; they'd be encouraraged. That's because defaulting would have a huge, world wide effect.

 

However, CCL has no intention of buying them out. Buying a company is liking getting married- you also get the rest of the family. If CCL were to buy out RCL, they'd have to assume all of their debt.

No, what CCL would do is wait for liquidation, then compete against other companies to buy their ships for pennies on the dollar. I say pennies because who has the money? NCL is hurting, that leaves Disney, MSC and Oceania, maybe.

RCL strategy is to make people think their cruises are worth more. That is why they had the "Royal Champions" and refuse to lower prices. Keep prices high and people will think the old sucker's myth "You get what you pay for".

I see this biting them because I think there are number of people who have only cruised RCL who will now be trying CCL. They will be so happy with a cruise that costs much less that they may not ever come back to RCL. I have seen some RCL prices that even exceeded Disney. I'll be going on the Valor this summer with family (four of us) and after that will be going on a PRincess cruise with my daughter in early July and those two cruises will still cost $800 less than one cruise for four on RCL:eek:

[MistyRo76]

I took my first Carnival cruise about 10 years ago and paid $699 for a 7 night Eastern Caribbean cruise. I was 23, had never booked this type of vacation before and was going fro Spring Break with my sis and a friend....we thought we were getting a steal. But since I started working for an airline that year and was able to fly for free, cruising has become my vacation of choice. Last month I booked my 11th Carnival cruise and got a 7 night Exotic Western Caribbean for $399 (price recently dropped to $369, so I am eagerly awaiting my new statement reflecting my new price). Throw in the $25 pp credit we got for booking within a month of our previous cruise and we are paying $344 plus tax for 7 nights. With the free flights and some great experience at booking great hotels for less, I can afford to cruise at least once, sometimes twice a year by cruising on Carnival. And Carnival has always been great to me and I have never had a bad experience in my 10 cruises so far.

 

While some of the RC ships looks really great and I would love to try them...I just don't see the need. Esp in today's economy. I am sure more and more people aren't quite ready to give up the annual family vacation, but aren't as willing to spend the money that they did a few years ago. I think that with the Oasis ships, RC might prove that bigger isn't always better or more profitable. Carnival is looking pretty smart right now for putting a focus on updating some of their smaller, older ships that are good money makers for them. Carnival also has done a great job of diversifying their itineraries and departure ports to allow more people the opportunity to drive to a port rather than pay for airfare. And areas where Carnival might have scaled back onboard due to cost cutting aren't really make or break things, for me at least.

 

So unless I suddenly come into some unexpected windfall, I will happily continue to cruise on Carnival (hopefully once or twice every year!)

 

Misty

[cruisetobeaches]

RCL has a massive debt to deal with vs their annual income.

 

For those stock tech geeks (like me):

 

CCL

Key Financials 2008

Revenue Total //Net Income //Earnings/Share //EBITDA //Long Term Debt

$11.57B //$1.84B //$2.29 //$3.14B //$6.11B

 

 

RCI

Key Financials 2008

Revenue Total //Net Income //Earnings/Share //EBITDA //Long Term Debt

$6.53B //$573.7M //$2.18 //$5.03B //$6.54B

 

Look at the net income to debt ratio.......................

 

(Haven't figured out how to make a table 'stick', so you'll have to spread out the numbers under the category.

[simkoreb]

I am a very frugal cruiser, but like to try new things....for a few years I have been wanting to try RC, and each cruise I book I price compare the different lines. It's never even been close!! I have done 4 Carnival and one Princess (I thought they were more similar than different)...I will never sail Royal Carribean with the price differences I see. They're losing out on my money, that's for sure!!! I see no way to justify the money I would spend for a similar cruise experience. I can live without the "extras."

[mongo]

used to sail rhapsody out of galveston, but haven't sailed rccl since they moved her away. really miss "the not so big" ship 7 days sailings out of galveston. would even still consider sailing rccl out of there, at the higher prices, cause a partially full ship is less crowded than a full one. and i hate people. also noted that they, rccl, seem to not be sailing out of new orleans anymore. bad decisions.

[spencercoop]

Lots of speculation around the RCCL board on this very subject over the past several months. Carnival had a really hard time taking over Princess and had to jump through a bunch of hoops to do it.

 

The consensus seems to be that they wouldn't be permitted to take over RCCL due to the anit-trust laws against monopolies....or like that....

 

I can't imagine Carnival would want to absorb the incredible debt of RCCL. They are pretty conservative and are in good shape by being so. I can see them maybe buying a couple of the newer ships....but not the monsters Oasis and Allure.

 

I didn't even think of that. That is probably a possibilty for Carnival to buy some of RC Radiance or Voyager class ships. I think the Freedom would be too big for Carnival becuase they are trying to not go as big as other cruise lines.

 

RC needs some help somewhere before they start to sink in debt. I heard that RC is billions and billions of dollars in debt, while Carnival pays for all their ships in cash.

 

I don't think that RC would want to sell any of their ships, but when it comes down to it, they might have to to get rid of some of their debt.

[misguidedangel]

I really don't think RCI can afford to discount cabins that much. They are known for their big, innovative ships. They keep getting bigger and bigger without lookin at the bottom line. They have to borrow billions to complete the Oasis and Allure and they don't even know if they will be able to sell the ship out week after week after week. They will have to sell ALL ships out week after week just to keep up with the payments they will be making.

 

Carnival is smart and knows their market. They are building bigger ships, but they also know the Conquest class and Spirit class ships are a hit. They can use those ships as a base to design a ship that bigger and has everything the passenger wants and still fill their ships week after week, I have never been on a cruise where the ship did not sail at full double occupancy. The last cruise I was on was less than 50 passengers short of every berth being full!

 

To be honest, I wouldn't go on RCI's ships. I've looked at the layouts/design and to me it doesn't have what I want. I don't cruise to ice skate, rock climb, surf, I cruise to relax and have fun. The same would go for NCL. I wouldn't go on them because I don't like the freestyle idea. I don't like the idea of the pay-for-service specialty restaurants. I want to pay for the price in the cruise and have one or two specialty restaurants. Prices for NCL are even more than RCI when I checked!

 

I cruise solo, so Carnival's pricing is just right for me! I pay 200% of the fare, so it is much less and I always have a great time!!!

[dan40]

I really don't think RCI can afford to discount cabins that much. They are known for their big, innovative ships. They keep getting bigger and bigger without lookin at the bottom line. They have to borrow billions to complete the Oasis and Allure and they don't even know if they will be able to sell the ship out week after week after week. They will have to sell ALL ships out week after week just to keep up with the payments they will be making.

 

Carnival is smart and knows their market. They are building bigger ships, but they also know the Conquest class and Spirit class ships are a hit. They can use those ships as a base to design a ship that bigger and has everything the passenger wants and still fill their ships week after week, I have never been on a cruise where the ship did not sail at full double occupancy. The last cruise I was on was less than 50 passengers short of every berth being full!

 

To be honest, I wouldn't go on RCI's ships. I've looked at the layouts/design and to me it doesn't have what I want. I don't cruise to ice skate, rock climb, surf, I cruise to relax and have fun. The same would go for NCL. I wouldn't go on them because I don't like the freestyle idea. I don't like the idea of the pay-for-service specialty restaurants. I want to pay for the price in the cruise and have one or two specialty restaurants. Prices for NCL are even more than RCI when I checked!

 

I cruise solo, so Carnival's pricing is just right for me! I pay 200% of the fare, so it is much less and I always have a great time!!!

 

Carnival hasn't built a "new" ship since the Fantasy. Fantasy and Ecstasy were hits, as were the rest of the class. So they have been building them ever since. Some they puff out taller, some are puffed out wider, all are stretched a little or a lot longer, some, wider and taller. Spirit class, still a Fantasy, just stretched out longer and thinner. The only innovation was the mass of balconies introduced with the Destiny. [followed by all other cruise lines] Otherwise its just been improvements and variations on a theme. Saving Carnival millions of dollars for sure and probably billions. They KNOW before the first piece of hull is cut that the ship will work for them because they have built so many of them before.

This is not a complaint, I think they are brilliant.

 

I thought that RCL had caught on to the trick with the Voyager class. They were puffing that class up and out and longer, and saving money in the process. And then they blew a Billion on the Oasis. Not much Voyager left on the Oasis. And the timing was as bad as anyone could imagine.

 

Dan

[MDSue]

I'm one of those crossover people. I sailed last year with RCCL and loved it and had a wonderful time. I have to admit that as nice as it was, I missed the nice plush bathrobes and the ice-cream bar that Carnival offers.

This year when it came time to book I just couldn't justify the almost $300 pp more that Royal Caribbean charged for a similar itinerary so we booked with Carnival.

I do have to say that even though originally Royal Caribbean charged more last year, they did heavily discount our cruise close to the sailing date and I got $250 dolllars refunded to my credit card. This year, no such luck with Carnival.

Either way, I'm happy to be sailing. I think they both have their pros and cons and I'm looking forward to tryng out Carnival again.

[hospsafe]

Hey CEO of RCL!!!...think about this....I went to Ft. Worth Texas this week. I am a big fan of Marriott Hotels. Due to cost I usually stay at the Courtyard by Marriott. But this week I decided to stay at the Marriott this week in Ft. Worth, TX. It is across the street from Texas Motor Speedway and has a golf course. Their average nightly rate for the week was about the same as a Courtyard by Marriott that is one mile from the full service hotel.

 

The hotel industry gets it. Its a shame that RCL doesn't.

 

"Its all about value, stupid!"

[VABeach]

Well, I actually "prefer" RCI, the upcoming cruise that had originally booked with RCI, is now booked with CCL instead. RCI just can't seem to compete in the $$$ department, and I don't really care about Rock Climbing Walls anyway..... ~ :cool:

[spencercoop]

WOW! RC is loosing a lot of customers!

[TrevyMcShaw]

I have only sailed on RCCI before, but I just booked my next cruise with Carnival. Carnival not only has a better price, but they have ships in ports that I can drive to. With the savings I get by booking with Carnival and not having to pay for airfare, I can afford to cruise twice per year instead of once a year or 1 1/2 years. Keep up the good work Carnival!

[SacredHeart]

I agree. No way for Carnival again. Not my cup of tea. There is a thread on the Carnival board about all the people stating that they were moving from Royal Caribbean to Carnival. Some state that they did not notice a difference. Those are the same ones that think eating at Golden Corral is fine dining.:rolleyes:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=956165

 

I saw this and thought it was hilarious. lol.

 

 

I wonder if I will be welcome on the upper decks on my upcoming cruise... seeing as how I'm one of "those people" from "steerage" (ocean view, Main deck)

[MrPete]

Basically the same.... maybe, if you discount the rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, pool tables, Royal Promenade.... those items alone are a significant difference regarding activities CCL does not offer !

 

I like those things because it deflects people away from things I like to do.....hwile cruising.

 

Except the Royal Promenade. I do like that and spent some pub time there. It's an alternative to a casino which I never frequent.

[Mikew0805]

 

But' date=' somebody has to do something about that hat thingie on top (or is it eyebrows?)....Looks like if they really applied the brakes, it would flip up on the bow......HA!![/quote']

 

Well, there goes my coffee all over the monitor! Thanks for the laugh. :D

[Mikew0805]

Basically the same.... maybe, if you discount the rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, pool tables, Royal Promenade.... those items alone are a significant difference regarding activities CCL does not offer !

 

Ok, Carnival does not have rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks and pool tables. However, the only difference with the Royal Promenade is location. Carnival still has a ship long promenade on their ships, it just happens to be located on the starboard side with views of the ocean. :cool:

[megr1125]

Mom & I are line-shopping since RCCL seems to be forcing it's so called loyal repeat guests away..........hope Mr Goldstein has asked for bailout money to keep the Behemoth OTS afloat!

 

We too can get a cheaper cruise.........and we are kind of tired of RCCLs food and ports..............Soooooooooooo maybe CCL or Princess or NCL.....not sure yet.............

 

guess I shall poke around this board and see what comes up!

[silentbob007]

While the final nail in the coffin might be the constant changes RCCL is making in their loyalty program and onboard experience, my mom is relieved ... she's been wanting to go back to Carnival food quality for years. :)

[dclark]

I saw this and thought it was hilarious. lol.

 

 

I wonder if I will be welcome on the upper decks on my upcoming cruise... seeing as how I'm one of "those people" from "steerage" (ocean view, Main deck)

 

The blind allegiance to RCL used to be comical, but now it is just plain sad. The food on my last RCL cruise was real low buck stuff. If I had gotten a steak as bad as what I got in dining room at any restaurant, I'd send it back. The quality of all the food (basic materials) was real cheap, almost insulting. Things are so bad that they charge for edible steak in the dining room. Rather than improve things, they enlist "Royal Champions" to help make people think they are not bad.

For RCL cruisers that go CCL, you :

1) Won't be hit up in the dining room for a good steak

2) Be careful with the shrimp in the dining room; the are big! They are not dinky like RCL shrimp, don't choke on them!

3) They serve lobster on every cruise! RCL doesn't serve lobster on four day or less cruises (cheap cheap!) and when they do serve it, it is not quite as good as the lobster at a Sizzler.

4) I hope you are not allergic to chocolate- every night you'll find some on your pillow when you return

5) Like soft serve or yogurt? CCL will have them both available, 24 hours a day ! WOW! Beware of the calories.

6) The bedding is so comfortable that you run the risk of oversleeping. Set your alarm clock.

7) CCL has the nerve to have 24 hr pizza, you might put on weight in your sleep.

8)After 9 cruises, CCL will wash your clothes for you, for free. How dare they?

 

So, after all these 8 horrible things about CCL, it is nice to see that they charge less!

[ruskatab]

Im platinum on RC and a shareholder and wont be on any of their ships anytime soon unless they lower the price. I cant justify paying more for the same product as Carnival when I have 2 kids in college and a daughter getting married. Carnival food is better and I get an occasional interline discount on Carnival.

[spencercoop]

The blind allegiance to RCL used to be comical, but now it is just plain sad. The food on my last RCL cruise was real low buck stuff. If I had gotten a steak as bad as what I got in dining room at any restaurant, I'd send it back. The quality of all the food (basic materials) was real cheap, almost insulting. Things are so bad that they charge for edible steak in the dining room. Rather than improve things, they enlist "Royal Champions" to help make people think they are not bad.

For RCL cruisers that go CCL, you :

1) Won't be hit up in the dining room for a good steak

2) Be careful with the shrimp in the dining room; the are big! They are not dinky like RCL shrimp, don't choke on them!

3) They serve lobster on every cruise! RCL doesn't serve lobster on four day or less cruises (cheap cheap!) and when they do serve it, it is not quite as good as the lobster at a Sizzler.

4) I hope you are not allergic to chocolate- every night you'll find some on your pillow when you return

5) Like soft serve or yogurt? CCL will have them both available, 24 hours a day ! WOW! Beware of the calories.

6) The bedding is so comfortable that you run the risk of oversleeping. Set your alarm clock.

7) CCL has the nerve to have 24 hr pizza, you might put on weight in your sleep.

8)After 9 cruises, CCL will wash your clothes for you, for free. How dare they?

 

So, after all these 8 horrible things about CCL, it is nice to see that they charge less!

 

You can add to your list that you won't be charged for room service at 2 am on carnival.

[Mikew0805]

The blind allegiance to RCL used to be comical, but now it is just plain sad. The food on my last RCL cruise was real low buck stuff. If I had gotten a steak as bad as what I got in dining room at any restaurant, I'd send it back. The quality of all the food (basic materials) was real cheap, almost insulting. Things are so bad that they charge for edible steak in the dining room. Rather than improve things, they enlist "Royal Champions" to help make people think they are not bad.

For RCL cruisers that go CCL, you :

1) Won't be hit up in the dining room for a good steak

2) Be careful with the shrimp in the dining room; the are big! They are not dinky like RCL shrimp, don't choke on them!

3) They serve lobster on every cruise! RCL doesn't serve lobster on four day or less cruises (cheap cheap!) and when they do serve it, it is not quite as good as the lobster at a Sizzler.

4) I hope you are not allergic to chocolate- every night you'll find some on your pillow when you return

5) Like soft serve or yogurt? CCL will have them both available, 24 hours a day ! WOW! Beware of the calories.

6) The bedding is so comfortable that you run the risk of oversleeping. Set your alarm clock.

7) CCL has the nerve to have 24 hr pizza, you might put on weight in your sleep.

8)After 9 cruises, CCL will wash your clothes for you, for free. How dare they?

 

So, after all these 8 horrible things about CCL, it is nice to see that they charge less!

 

Great list! I agree.

 

You can add to your list that you won't be charged for room service at 2 am on carnival.

 

This is true. That was what was unfortunate about this last Voyager that I forgot to mention in my review. We were at the casino late night and when we came back to the cabin it was well after midnight. I didn't want to spend $3.95 for room service that I was told would take 45-60 minutes, and then have to tip on top of that!

 

Oh I want to add to dclark's list:

 

*Chocolate milk available at no charge on the breakfast buffet, in the MDR for breakfast, and through room service.

 

Yes I like chocolate milk.. cannot stand the white stuff!

[Wennfred]

The past few days I keep reading how people are changing from RC to Carnival because they are getting almost the same cruise for a lot less.

 

I wonder how full RC ships are sailing and if they are loosing a lot of customers with this economy.

 

If I was Carnival I would charge those RCI customers more LOL, They are used to paying more. :D

 

Fred

[Mikew0805]

If I was Carnival I would charge those RCI customers more LOL, They are used to paying more. :D

 

Fred

 

:eek: