For those that have done both: Carnival Magic or RCI Navigator of the Seas

This will be our first cruise. We are a mid to late 40's professional couple and are recent empty nester's so it will just be the two of us on this trip.

We will be sailing May 31st from Galveston (because we can drive to the port) on either the Magic or the Navigator, in a balcony cabin. Both ships sail to Cozumel, Grand Cayman, and Jamaica. Both cost roughly the same: Carnival costs $2500 and Royal Caribbean costs $2400.

A bit about us. We don't drink, smoke, cuss, gamble, or party- thus the reason we've never tried a cruise before- it just didn't sound like our kinda thang. But we DO love tropical islands, palm trees, watching the ocean from a balcony, exploring new cities and cultures, relaxing around a quiet pool and hot tub...and eating! Food is our only vice! We diet all year long but on vacation all bets are off so good food is important to us on this cruise.

I thought I would list our pros and cons of each ship here. Partly to wrap my mind around what we do or don't like, and partly so those of you with first hand knowledge can help guide us where our assumptions are wrong. So here goes:

CARNIVAL MAGIC: Carnival seems to invest a lot of money in neon. Way too much neon for our tastes so the decor is a big detractor for us. And, to be perfectly honest, we are really afraid that the oarty crowd Carnival ships are famous for just might ruin the trip for us. After all partying is fun when you're the one doing it, but to onlookers it's mostly just loud and obnoxious. Since we sit firmly in the onlooker category these days, it seems that could get old real fast.

HOWEVER....a lot of things about the Magic DO appeal to us. The water slides and ropes course look like a lot of fun! We would definitely try them for sure. And we'd do the putt-putt too. The comedy shows get rave reviews and who doesn't love a good laugh?! The food gets a lot of good word of mouth and the idea of the Tandoori is a huge plus to us, as is the Mongolian Wok and Guys Burgers, plus the pizza and desserts on Carnival get great press! We like that the buffet is always open and there's even a CHOCOLATE BUFFET! YUM! I also like that there are lots dining areas with great ocean views and lots of comfy looking loungers scattered around the various decks for your ocean viewing pleasure.

As for the Navigator Of The Seas:

We think the ship itself is gorgeous and the passengers in the youtube videos we've watched seem more sedate and better behaved and that really appeals to us. We like that the Solarium is glassed in and has a pool AND a hot tub so we could go back and forth from hot to cold. And the nighttime entertainment shows seem like something we would vastly prefer to bars and casinos. The Ice Show gets rave reviews and shows like The Quest and Love&Marriage are on youtube and look hilarious to us.

HOWEVER...... we wouldn't use any of the big ticket items that most people rave about when they recommend Royal Carribbean. We wouldn't ice skate. Or use the Flowrider. Or climb the Rock Wall. We wouldn't watch the parades... indoors...in the crowded...umm...Mall? Even thiugh we think the Promenade looks pretty -a cruise seems like the place to be outside enjoying an ocean view and the smell of the ocean, not indoors shopping! But the biggest negative to us is that the food gets so many bad reviews!! All my life I've heard how great cruise food is, what gives Royal Caribbean?? And there are only 3 places to eat unless you pay extra (well 4 counting Room Service) but 2 of those 3 close down in between meals so we wouldn't be able to avoid the crowd by going a little early or a little late. And no 24 hour ice cream or chocolate buffet either.

Honestly I really want to love the Navigator because it just seems nicer overall, but after listing out all our thoughts here, the cons are stacking up against it.

For those of you that have cruised both. Any suggestions? Are our perceptions off base?

Been on both ships within the last 12 months (Navigator in April 14 and Magic in Sept 14). Your assessments of both ships are pretty good. If you don't want to see the party atmosphere then Royal is probably a better option. Its more laid back kinda letting you find your own pace and do things on your scheduled while Carnival is more about festive fun type events. Probably one big difference I recall was on the Navigator on a normal day you might have a couple of hundred people around the pool area at any time during the day or night hours while on Carnival they only time you will see a couple of hundred people around the pool will be at 7 am in the morning. The rest of the time there will be at least 6 or 700 or more around the pool area. Both have the outdoor movie screens but the Magic made much better use of theirs than they did on the Navigator ( the Navigator had just come out of dry dock when we were on her so maybe that had something to do with that). Both ships have adult only areas (Senerity on Magic and Solarium on Navigator ) and you are correct with the Solarium area being enclosed on the Navigator while the Serenity area is open air but it is very nice (has a tendency to get a little wild at night). One final thought along this line, they hosted an adult only pool party on the Navigator in the Solarium area one night and that event had the largest number of people in the entire pool are during our entire trip (was completely packed) and they had an outdoor theater night on the big screen on the main pool deck while about 15 kids watched the movie. Never quite figured out what they were trying to accomplish with the setup on that one. On the Magic the nights are usually dedicated to the Dive in Movie but they do have one night where they have a big block type party with a buffet.

As far as the food goes in my opinion it really was not that much different. We have a tendency to stick more with the buffets rather than the Main Dining Room but we do always make at least on Formal night. Carnival offers the Sea Day brunches which are pretty cool and the Magic has a few more outside/fast food type areas if you want to stay outside. The food is pretty good on both ships in my opinion.

I probably enjoy the Comedy show on Carnival more than any of the other types of shows but the both do have the Love and Marriage/How Well Do You Know Your Spouse types of games. I am not a theater/play type of person so the Ice Show didn't keep my attention very long. Probably was very nice if you are into the choreographed type of event like that but it wasn't for me. The Generation type music shows on Carnival were a bit more of my speed.

Cant go wrong with either one. I love the Magic and I like the happenings a bit more on Carnival so we decided we are probably going to stick with Carnival from here on out to try and get the perks later on down the road.

Probably going to book a Magic cruise sometimes within the next 3-4 months.

RC Oasis of the Seas April 2012

Carnival Triumph January 2013

Carnival Triumph September 2013

RC Navigator of the Seas April 2014

Carnival Magic September 2014

Awww, will always have a soft spot for the Navigator as we spent our honeymoon 12 yrs ago (tomorrow :D) on her and she was brand new. Beautiful ship then and from what I have read she is still going strong.

We cruise a lot with Carnival (just got off of Liberty New Years cruise out of PC) and not everyone on Carnival parties, gets drunk, smokes or cuss ;)....our son loves to cruise and for us it is all about the journey and where we are going, the ships are a blast, the food good (CCL and Royal about the same)...give it a try but prepare by reading everything you can....

Are there rude, pushy or drunk people onboard? Of course but you will get that in crowds no matter where you go on vacation. Get a balcony cabin and you will have some private outdoors time, your own little getaway from the other passengers, its the best (coffee brought to your cabin every morning to watch the sun rise from your private balcony :D), you will love it!

One thing you should probably know first. The Solarium on Navigator is not glassed in. It is adults only, but it's open air.

I've also been on both ships. Think of the Navigator Promenade like any other cruise ship central atrium. It's not where you hang out during the day. It's more of a transit area and more for hanging out in the evenings. The Promenade is really impressive, especially when you see it in person for the first time. Go on the hsip and I think you'll find you like it more than you thought.

Don't worry about food. Food quality on Carnival and Royal Caribbean, as it is on all mass market cruises, is exactly the same. You get lovers and haters on both, but the fact still remains, it's all banquet quality.

My biggest complaint about Magic is, it's one of the most crowded ships I've ever been on. These 2 ships are almost exactly the same size, yet Magic carries a lot more passengers. The Lido deck is extremely crowded and the one pool is a joke. That, and Carnival has really cut down on live music entertainment. On the Navigator, the pool deck is sprawling with 2 huge pools side by side, along with the pool in the Solarium. Plus, they still have a live reggae band playing next to the pool.

Between these 2 ships, I recommend Navigator.

We have sailed the Navigator and enjoyed it. It's a very nice ship. We have also sailed the Dream out of NO. Yes, it is more crowed and also had a lot of teens that were less than behaved. If you sail the Navigator, be sure and go to the scavenger hunt.:)

Peeps experience will differ depending on their age, their traveling companions, and their daily habits. I've been on numerous cruise ships including the two you mentioned and everyone has its pros and cons. And don't judge either by people relating things about the other peeps on board...they are analyzing that through their own set of biased glasses.

If you feel the two ships are equal take a good long look at the location of the rooms you can book, what is above and below them, their location in regards to stairways and elevators, and (for the smoothest ride) how close they are to ship's center. If you love balconies this is a must since forward and aft will bounce you about a bit and tend to be more environmental noisy when the ship is moving.

As a mature individual, myself, I don't use half of the facilities on either ship.

Another vote for Navigator. We've done both and like you are not drinkers, don't gamble and not partiers in any way, don't us the ice rink or flowrider (but it's fun to watch).

The solarium is our favorite area of the ship. The Magic has nothing even similar. Magic has an adult area called the serenity area, but it's on an open upper deck with very little shade and A LOT of wind.

We've done 7 cruises on the Voyager class ships with 2 more booked. We live less than an hour from Galveston so can chose between the two and RCI ships win.

Have a great cruise.

Given your situation, I believe I would recommend the Navigator. The Magic can seem crowded (because of the layout of the public areas) but is a lot of fun, as is the NOTS. I just think you would enjoy the NOTS more than the Magic. My 2 cents. :)

Although we have not cruised on the ships you mention, we have cruised on Carnival and Royal Caribbean as you can see by my sig below. Carnival seems to be geared toward a constant "party" atmosphere and as such draws younger "party" minded passengers. We enjoyed our Carnival cruises but, after experiencing both cruise lines, we find that we prefer RC.

Food is subjective, however we both give RC the nod for better quality. You will not go hungry while the main dining rooms are closed. If you get the munchies between meals, you can get sandwiches, fruit, etc., at the complimentary Café Promenade.

These are just my opinions based on our experiences and preferences. I recommend that you give RC a try. Feel free to view my wife's slide shows. It may help you decide.

Happy cruising. It's a great experience!

This will be our first cruise. We are a mid to late 40's professional couple and are recent empty nester's so it will just be the two of us on this trip.

 

We will be sailing May 31st from Galveston (because we can drive to the port) on either the Magic or the Navigator, in a balcony cabin. Both ships sail to Cozumel, Grand Cayman, and Jamaica. Both cost roughly the same: Carnival costs $2500 and Royal Caribbean costs $2400.

 

A bit about us. We don't drink, smoke, cuss, gamble, or party- thus the reason we've never tried a cruise before- it just didn't sound like our kinda thang. But we DO love tropical islands, palm trees, watching the ocean from a balcony, exploring new cities and cultures, relaxing around a quiet pool and hot tub...and eating! Food is our only vice! We diet all year long but on vacation all bets are off so good food is important to us on this cruise.

 

I thought I would list our pros and cons of each ship here. Partly to wrap my mind around what we do or don't like, and partly so those of you with first hand knowledge can help guide us where our assumptions are wrong. So here goes:

 

CARNIVAL MAGIC: Carnival seems to invest a lot of money in neon. Way too much neon for our tastes so the decor is a big detractor for us. And, to be perfectly honest, we are really afraid that the oarty crowd Carnival ships are famous for just might ruin the trip for us. After all partying is fun when you're the one doing it, but to onlookers it's mostly just loud and obnoxious. Since we sit firmly in the onlooker category these days, it seems that could get old real fast.

HOWEVER....a lot of things about the Magic DO appeal to us. The water slides and ropes course look like a lot of fun! We would definitely try them for sure. And we'd do the putt-putt too. The comedy shows get rave reviews and who doesn't love a good laugh?! The food gets a lot of good word of mouth and the idea of the Tandoori is a huge plus to us, as is the Mongolian Wok and Guys Burgers, plus the pizza and desserts on Carnival get great press! We like that the buffet is always open and there's even a CHOCOLATE BUFFET! YUM! I also like that there are lots dining areas with great ocean views and lots of comfy looking loungers scattered around the various decks for your ocean viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

As for the Navigator Of The Seas:

We think the ship itself is gorgeous and the passengers in the youtube videos we've watched seem more sedate and better behaved and that really appeals to us. We like that the Solarium is glassed in and has a pool AND a hot tub so we could go back and forth from hot to cold. And the nighttime entertainment shows seem like something we would vastly prefer to bars and casinos. The Ice Show gets rave reviews and shows like The Quest and Love&Marriage are on youtube and look hilarious to us.

HOWEVER...... we wouldn't use any of the big ticket items that most people rave about when they recommend Royal Carribbean. We wouldn't ice skate. Or use the Flowrider. Or climb the Rock Wall. We wouldn't watch the parades... indoors...in the crowded...umm...Mall? Even thiugh we think the Promenade looks pretty -a cruise seems like the place to be outside enjoying an ocean view and the smell of the ocean, not indoors shopping! But the biggest negative to us is that the food gets so many bad reviews!! All my life I've heard how great cruise food is, what gives Royal Caribbean?? And there are only 3 places to eat unless you pay extra (well 4 counting Room Service) but 2 of those 3 close down in between meals so we wouldn't be able to avoid the crowd by going a little early or a little late. And no 24 hour ice cream or chocolate buffet either.

 

Honestly I really want to love the Navigator because it just seems nicer overall, but after listing out all our thoughts here, the cons are stacking up against it.

 

For those of you that have cruised both. Any suggestions? Are our perceptions off base?

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Did both when we were in our early 40s and have tastes similar to yours. Would choose the Navigator every time - but if we did the Magic again we would surely get a Cove Balcony as that type of cabin is the one great thing Magic has that Nav does not.

Shows are better on Nav, so is MDR service and lounge entertainment. Why we don't ice skate either the show and quest game show in studio B are not to be missed. Rock wall is more adult oriented than the ropes course as is the flow rider vs the Magic Water park.

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A bit about us. We don't drink, smoke, cuss, gamble, or party- thus the reason we've never tried a cruise before- it just didn't sound like our kinda thang.

Since you don't do any of that, then stay on land.:D

The only difference between RCL and Carnival is that RCL has more active options (rock climbing, skating, etc.) Since you don't like the active stuff then go with Carnival.:)

The Magic doesn't have Guy's burgers or the Blue Iguana (burrito and taco place), but it does have some great things like the Tandoor (amazing), Pizza, and Deli. Carnival doesn't have a buffet that is always open. The only thing that is open 24/7 is the Pizza place and room service. Both cruise lines will have times in the afternoon before dinner and late at night when there is only one food option besides room service (Royal Caribbean charges a fee from 12-5 in the morning for room service). Carnival has pizza and Royal has a cafe type restaurant with sandwiches and desserts.

I would probably say the food is a little better on Carnival, but the atmosphere and decor of the Navigator would definitely be more what you are looking for. Food is so subjective, but I love to eat when I cruise and there is plenty of great food on either ship.

Honestly though Princess sounds like it would be exactly what you want. Unfortunately they are only in Houston (40 minutes from Galveston) until April of this year and don't come back until November. They usually have an older crowd, have a very elegant decor, and the food is the best of the cruise lines I've been on.

I haven't sailed on the Navigator but a few RC Ships and I have sailed on the Magic. Based on your description I would say the Navigator. My favorite adults only area on RC is the Solarium and I just feel it would be more geared towards the type of trip you are looking for.

All things being equal price-wise, Navigator. We have been on NOS 3 times, sister ship Mariner 2 times...and Carnival's Conquest once...but, we are going on the Magic most likely in May. It will be free via a casino.

The issues we had with Carnival (& most ships with most lines are more similar than not) were food first, how difficult it was to find our way around the ship (you couldn't get to the dining room without going up/down/around), and the most important as frequent cruisers...past passenger program. The live music everywhere was the only thing, besides price, that we liked better than RC. As far as price, usually, same balcony stateroom quality on Carnival can be had for around $600pp compared to $900pp on RC.

We like our "piece of quiet" and don't do a lot of the activities that are offered. We have set our expectations for the Magic to be lowered based upon on our past Carnival experience and will be dining in specialty restaurants this time. And it sounds like the one thing we liked may be a thing of the past...so loading up the kindle & planning on spending more time ashore.

I will say that the past passenger program RC offers is not equaled by any other line in benefits...although, once upon a time NCL was the best.

Bottom line is that it sounds like your best value is with Navigator.

This will be our first cruise. We are a mid to late 40's professional couple and are recent empty nester's so it will just be the two of us on this trip.

 

 

 

 

 

CARNIVAL MAGIC:

HOWEVER....a lot of things about the Magic DO appeal to us. The water slides and ropes course look like a lot of fun! We would definitely try them for sure. And we'd do the putt-putt too. The comedy shows get rave reviews and who doesn't love a good laugh?! The food gets a lot of good word of mouth and the idea of the Tandoori is a huge plus to us, as is the Mongolian Wok and Guys Burgers, plus the pizza and desserts on Carnival get great press! We like that the buffet is always open and there's even a CHOCOLATE BUFFET! YUM! I also like that there are lots dining areas with great ocean views and lots of comfy looking loungers scattered around the various decks for your ocean viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

 

 

For those of you that have cruised both. Any suggestions? Are our perceptions off base?

When you say that the buffet is always open do you mean 24/7?

Bill

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Navigator is one of our favorite ships :)

PS - prices you are posting seem way high unless you are looking at Xmas or New Years or a Suite. Suite perks and rooms on RCCL are widely regarded to be better.

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PPS Just saw the date and cabin you are looking at and the first site Iooked at posted NAV and Magic at less than 1000pp with taxes and fees. Also Nav deal included tips (about $150) and Magic a 50 OBC.

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This will be our first cruise. We are a mid to late 40's professional couple and are recent empty nester's so it will just be the two of us on this trip.

 

We will be sailing May 31st from Galveston (because we can drive to the port) on either the Magic or the Navigator, in a balcony cabin. Both ships sail to Cozumel, Grand Cayman, and Jamaica. Both cost roughly the same: Carnival costs $2500 and Royal Caribbean costs $2400.

 

A bit about us. We don't drink, smoke, cuss, gamble, or party- thus the reason we've never tried a cruise before- it just didn't sound like our kinda thang. But we DO love tropical islands, palm trees, watching the ocean from a balcony, exploring new cities and cultures, relaxing around a quiet pool and hot tub...and eating! Food is our only vice! We diet all year long but on vacation all bets are off so good food is important to us on this cruise.

 

I thought I would list our pros and cons of each ship here. Partly to wrap my mind around what we do or don't like, and partly so those of you with first hand knowledge can help guide us where our assumptions are wrong. So here goes:

 

CARNIVAL MAGIC: Carnival seems to invest a lot of money in neon. Way too much neon for our tastes so the decor is a big detractor for us. And, to be perfectly honest, we are really afraid that the oarty crowd Carnival ships are famous for just might ruin the trip for us. After all partying is fun when you're the one doing it, but to onlookers it's mostly just loud and obnoxious. Since we sit firmly in the onlooker category these days, it seems that could get old real fast.

HOWEVER....a lot of things about the Magic DO appeal to us. The water slides and ropes course look like a lot of fun! We would definitely try them for sure. And we'd do the putt-putt too. The comedy shows get rave reviews and who doesn't love a good laugh?! The food gets a lot of good word of mouth and the idea of the Tandoori is a huge plus to us, as is the Mongolian Wok and Guys Burgers, plus the pizza and desserts on Carnival get great press! We like that the buffet is always open and there's even a CHOCOLATE BUFFET! YUM! I also like that there are lots dining areas with great ocean views and lots of comfy looking loungers scattered around the various decks for your ocean viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

As for the Navigator Of The Seas:

We think the ship itself is gorgeous and the passengers in the youtube videos we've watched seem more sedate and better behaved and that really appeals to us. We like that the Solarium is glassed in and has a pool AND a hot tub so we could go back and forth from hot to cold. And the nighttime entertainment shows seem like something we would vastly prefer to bars and casinos. The Ice Show gets rave reviews and shows like The Quest and Love&Marriage are on youtube and look hilarious to us.

HOWEVER...... we wouldn't use any of the big ticket items that most people rave about when they recommend Royal Carribbean. We wouldn't ice skate. Or use the Flowrider. Or climb the Rock Wall. We wouldn't watch the parades... indoors...in the crowded...umm...Mall? Even thiugh we think the Promenade looks pretty -a cruise seems like the place to be outside enjoying an ocean view and the smell of the ocean, not indoors shopping! But the biggest negative to us is that the food gets so many bad reviews!! All my life I've heard how great cruise food is, what gives Royal Caribbean?? And there are only 3 places to eat unless you pay extra (well 4 counting Room Service) but 2 of those 3 close down in between meals so we wouldn't be able to avoid the crowd by going a little early or a little late. And no 24 hour ice cream or chocolate buffet either.

 

Honestly I really want to love the Navigator because it just seems nicer overall, but after listing out all our thoughts here, the cons are stacking up against it.

 

For those of you that have cruised both. Any suggestions? Are our perceptions off base?

I haven't done the Navigator but I have done the Magic 3 times. Based on your preferences, I would go with RCCL. The Magic seems crowded to me. It is a big ship. I don't care for the food on any Carnival ship. With that being said there are many things on the Magic that I like and I think you would enjoy. I love the Cove Balconies, the SkyCourse, Waterworks, and Entertainment. Also, the Magic does not have Guy's Burgers as you mentioned.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to read my long winded post and respond with your honest opinions. And also for setting us straight on a few issues where we had our facts wrong. I wish I knew how to cut and paste quotes from your replies on here so I could respond to and thank some of you personally, but from my iPad I can't see how to do that.

After contemplating everyone's advice we are still torn, because both ships seem to have a lot to offer, but we have decided the Navigator is probably the best fit for us for our first taste of cruising. If we find we love cruising then we'll be back for more and we can try Magic the next time, right?

PPS Just saw the date and cabin you are looking at and the first site Iooked at posted NAV and Magic at less than 1000pp with taxes and fees. Also Nav deal included tips (about $150) and Magic a 50 OBC.

 

 

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Those prices were what we found on the Royal Caribbean and Carnival websites, and an Avoya travel agent online quoted us figures in the same ballpark so we assumed that was the going rate.

That is the "out the door" price with all taxes, fees, tips, and travel insurance added on, but if you think we can beat that price elsewhere please PM me which websites we should be shopping on instead!

Oh, and on the Navigator we factored in an extra $100 pp into the cost to cover specialty dining because reviews about the food on Royal ships aren't as positive as the reviews for food on Carnival.

It seems that when reading thru the responses and preferences, what I hear matches my experiences.

My pros for RCL:

RCL is a more sedate crowd and experience. The entertainment quality is higher. The ships are less crowded. (Check common space ratio. ..) less people in 138000 vs 130000 tons. The target audience is a little older. 40s etc. And the ship has a more traditional decorative scheme.

Not for everyone but given your age and preferences I think the decision should be easy.

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Those prices were what we found on the Royal Caribbean and Carnival websites, and an Avoya travel agent online quoted us figures in the same ballpark so we assumed that was the going rate.

 

That is the "out the door" price with all taxes, fees, tips, and travel insurance added on, but if you think we can beat that price elsewhere please PM me which websites we should be shopping on instead!

 

Oh, and on the Navigator we factored in an extra $100 pp into the cost to cover specialty dining because reviews about the food on Royal ships aren't as positive as the reviews for food on Carnival.

I checked a website that rhymes with snooze-got-prom. While we had a great time on the Magic, it was an experience that resulted in three successive RCCL cruises for us, including two on the Navigator. The most disappointing aspect of our Magic cruise was our dinging experience. Food was fine (no better or worse than RCCL IMO) but the team waiting concept how food is delivered (huge trays with 25+ plates covered under plastic) and scraped away at wait stations right next to the table has led to an almost cafeteria like atmosphere. Our dining experiences on Navigator were surpassed only by our Century cruise almost 15 years ago. We did reviews on each of these cruises and I'll post links later.

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I checked a website that rhymes with snooze-got-prom. While we had a great time on the Magic, it was an experience that resulted in three successive RCCL cruises for us, including two on the Navigator. The most disappointing aspect of our Magic cruise was our dinging experience. Food was fine (no better or worse than RCCL IMO) but the team waiting concept how food is delivered (huge trays with 25+ plates covered under plastic) and scraped away at wait stations right next to the table has led to an almost cafeteria like atmosphere. Our dining experiences on Navigator were surpassed only by our Century cruise almost 15 years ago. We did reviews on each of these cruises and I'll post links later.

 

 

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Navigator Last Thanksgiving:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=266807

The Thanksgiving before that:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=245331

And Magic in June the Year Before:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=107544

I should also add that we have sort of a moral opposition to for fee restaurants on cruises, yet we were compelled to try the steakhouse and Italian restaurant on the Magic twice as we were so underwhelmed with the Magic dining room.

Go for the pretty ship!

And welcome to cruising and to Cruise Critic!