Right in the pocketbook?

I don't agree that the Windjammer will be all that's free in the future. The newest class, (Quantum) has many free restaurants. They would not have spent the millions on these ships offering the free eateries if they were thinking about limiting the free meals to the Windjammer.

Sure they would, with smart design. They've completely eliminated the multi-story (free) MDR in those new ships, and each venue is separate and distinct, just like Chops or any other pay venue. Several of them are free for the moment, but it would take absolutely no rework at all to convert those all to pay venues like Chops.

I have a question for anyone who cares to comment. Do cruisers feel that the increase in a la carte options has made cruising more expensive and we just didn't notice as much? We strive to get the best fare but once on board the proverbial hand is out more than ever it seems.

 

Historically all dining options used to be included in the fare. Then 1 or 2 specialty restaurants were introduced for $15 -$25 more per person. Now with the launch of the Quantum class it seems that half the restaurants on board are at an optional charge.

 

Yes I realize there still are included dining choices. I fully expect a "you don't have to go to the pay restaurants if you don't want to."

 

I suppose, for me, it taints the enjoyment of cruising if certain areas of the ship are inaccessible to me unless I pay more for a certain class of stateroom or half the dining choices are inaccessible to me...unless I pay more or certain activities aren't available...unless I pay more.

 

I don't think this should be a discussion about revenue generating models nor the always volatile drink prices discussion.

 

Do members think it's a slow but enevitable process of getting us used to paying more for what used to be included in the standard fare.

 

Don't misinterpret my question as a significant complaint. I'd be on another cruise tomorrow if I could. My question is more an observation and wondering what others may think.

I think your premises are just wrong. In 1996 I booked the Majesty of the Seas and I paid well over $1400 per person for a tiny inside cabin for 7 days in January. The walls in our cabin squeaked and moaned in rough seas so bad that on a couple of nights I had a hard time sleeping. At the time the Majesty was the newest and best class of ship sailing when we booked it. Last year we sailed on the Oasis for a 7 day cruise in a ocean view balcony for just under $1100 per person. We sailed at almost identically the same time of the month and celebrated our anniversary on each cruise. My onboard billing was almost nothing with the credits I received for booking it with a next cruise certificate.

In 1996 there were only two options for dinner, either it was dressing up for the main dining room or the windjammer. The food was better in the MDR in 1996 than 2013, but not significantly. For a small extra fee in 2013 I ate at Chops and again experienced a vastly better meal than I ever got in the time before specialty restaurants. Then there is the entire ship experience. It is night and day with so many options and activities that were simply unimaginable in 1996.

Today, cruisers are blessed with lower prices that are only possible because of the ala carte pricing. The cruise lines have found a way to expand their base and to allow the customers to decide with their wallet what kind of vacation they want. Cruisers today have more freedom than ever, why would we want to go back to the days that only seem better in the hazy warm glow of memory.

Again, I suggest your premise is flawed.

JMHO and YMMV

jc

I don't get a suite. They usually don't offer suites on their specials. When they started the original BOGOHO sale, suites were not part of it. I spend what I want to. I have no problem at all with suites getting special perks. These people are paying at least double what I'm paying for a balcony, and for this they deserve more. I don't agree that the Windjammer will be all that's free in the future. The newest class, (Quantum) has many free restaurants. They would not have spent the millions on these ships offering the free eateries if they were thinking about limiting the free meals to the Windjammer. As for the drinks, they are in line with a resort, not the neighborhood bar.As long as they keep the fares within reason, I will gladly keep cruising.

Got a JS on Oasis for this April on original sale. It was a rebook from a booking made on ship last December. Saved about a grand

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Again, I suggest your premise is flawed.

 

 

 

JMHO and YMMV

 

 

 

jc

You make good points. That is how we learn. Each launch sees impressive ship designs. Who would have thought there would be skydiving simulators at sea 10 years ago.

Perhaps it is offloading fare costs to specialty restaurants and on board attractions in order to attract a larger base. Perhaps it is slow conditioning.

We complained about the price of gas being so high where I am. It then went higher and with it the cost of groceries due to high fuel costs. Gas prices came down but grocery prices remain high yet we rejoice about the lower gas prices that are at a level we previously complained about.

I will cruise again and do my best to add to the bottom line of RCCL or X or whomever I choose. I do hope that cruisers don't begin to feel like they are behind the velvet rope. I wonder how far the a la cart model will be pushed. I guess to the point where it begins to lose money.

I don't get a suite. They usually don't offer suites on their specials. When they started the original BOGOHO sale, suites were not part of it. I spend what I want to. I have no problem at all with suites getting special perks. These people are paying at least double what I'm paying for a balcony, and for this they deserve more. I don't agree that the Windjammer will be all that's free in the future. The newest class, (Quantum) has many free restaurants. They would not have spent the millions on these ships offering the free eateries if they were thinking about limiting the free meals to the Windjammer. As for the drinks, they are in line with a resort, not the neighborhood bar.As long as they keep the fares within reason, I will gladly keep cruising.

By building Quantum without a traditional MDR, one might argue that they are already moving in the direction of reducing or eliminating "free" (included) restaurants. It would certainly be easy enough to turn the included eateries into for-pay eateries.

Today, cruisers are blessed with lower prices that are only possible because of the ala carte pricing. The cruise lines have found a way to expand their base and to allow the customers to decide with their wallet what kind of vacation they want. Cruisers today have more freedom than ever, why would we want to go back to the days that only seem better in the hazy warm glow of memory.

 

Again, I suggest your premise is flawed.

 

JMHO and YMMV

 

jc

I suspect that we are blessed with lower pricing because of the number of cabins available. If they could charge more and still fill the ship they would and the ala carte pricing would likely not disappear as long as folks keep paying for cup cakes, burgers, and ice cream.

I suspect that we are blessed with lower pricing because of the number of cabins available. If they could charge more and still fill the ship they would and the ala carte pricing would likely not disappear as long as folks keep paying for cup cakes, burgers, and ice cream.

Why do they keep increasing the amount of available cabins

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I suspect that we are blessed with lower pricing because of the number of cabins available. If they could charge more and still fill the ship they would and the ala carte pricing would likely not disappear as long as folks keep paying for cup cakes, burgers, and ice cream.

Maybe it is just me, but I can minimize my need to 'overindulge' -- I see no need to pay extra for a hamburger at JR's or a cupcake at the Cupcake cupboard on the Promenade or ice cream at the Ben & Jerry's shop on the Promenade. The cruise line (and land resorts) that parents find it difficult to say 'no' to their children and mean it.....adults find it hard to not overindulge for themselves.

Do I take part in a specialty restaurant -- sometimes; but it has to be something that isn't offered in the MDR, like Izumi. Otherwise, it is MDR for us. There is plenty to indulge in as far as food without breaking the wallet.

Maybe it is just me, but I can minimize my need to 'overindulge' -- I see no need to pay extra for a hamburger at JR's or a cupcake at the Cupcake cupboard on the Promenade or ice cream at the Ben & Jerry's shop on the Promenade. The cruise line (and land resorts) that parents find it difficult to say 'no' to their children and mean it.....adults find it hard to not overindulge for themselves.

 

Do I take part in a specialty restaurant -- sometimes; but it has to be something that isn't offered in the MDR, like Izumi. Otherwise, it is MDR for us. There is plenty to indulge in as far as food without breaking the wallet.

It isn't just you. Those are not areas that I choose to spend my money either.

Why do they keep increasing the amount of available cabins

 

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There are probably many reasons and I am sure I don't know all that goes into it. I suspect economy of scale plays into building larger ships. I also suspect that the more people they can get aboard a ship the better the chances are that more people will opt to buy the up charge stuff, make contributions in the casino, buy tours, keep the alcohol flowing, etc. The more people you have the better chance the other revenue producing centers on the ship will produce a nice profit.

Read through this thread. Folks alluded to the fact that they could not use certain areas of the ship because they had a fee attached.

Well, sitting in Chops..you are looking at the exact same Caribbean Sea that the people in the WIndjammer are looking at. Giovanni's or Portofino..yup same Sea, just the other side.

Consierge lounge? Usually stuck between two hallways, crowded and nothing exceptional....you can sit in the same amount of space between any two hallways on most of the decks.

The Mexican Restaurant..it is sandwiched into a corner of the promenade on Navigator...inside, you are not missing anything.

Ship security are not armed. They do not force anyone to buy anything.

Read through this thread. Folks alluded to the fact that they could not use certain areas of the ship because they had a fee attached.

Well, sitting in Chops..you are looking at the exact same Caribbean Sea that the people in the WIndjammer are looking at. Giovanni's or Portofino..yup same Sea, just the other side.

Consierge lounge? Usually stuck between two hallways, crowded and nothing exceptional....you can sit in the same amount of space between any two hallways on most of the decks.

The Mexican Restaurant..it is sandwiched into a corner of the promenade on Navigator...inside, you are not missing anything.

Ship security are not armed. They do not force anyone to buy anything.

It's not just about the view out the window.

Cruising is a vacation 'OPTION'. There are many possibilities out there to enjoy your free time. Research your options and select what is best for you and your family. I have been cruising for many years because I love it. I have experianced the times when cruise lines offered more goodies for the cruise fare and I have watched as cruise lines have evolved into what we have today. I fully expect things to continue to change and I will adapt to those changes and still love cruising.

Here's one way to possibly look at it:

 

You are on any given ship in the smallest cheapest stateroom there is enjoying all that is offered to you that is included in your vacation package and you are having the time of your life. You are eating, being entertained and partaking in any sort of beverage you care to. Life is good. Smell of the ocean does not change with cruise fare!;)

 

Someone else, is in the most expensive stateroom, eating and drinking the most expensive things there on the ship. Sitting in areas that only a certain few can go in. That is what that person has chosen for vacation enjoyment.

 

Does the someone else really have it better then you as long as YOU are having a blast??? :)

So just out of curiosity, if RCCL would incorporate a system where anyone, no matter the cabin can get the same perks as a suite guest as long as they shell out X amount of dollars extra for it, you would be good with that? I was under the impression that when you book a suite you are paying for the type of cabin just as you would if you booked a regular old inside cabin. One isn't paying extra per say for a suite to get the amenities, you are paying for the bigger room, walk in closets, bath tubs, second bedrooms, bigger balconies etc and the extras (special seating etc) is just a perk of booking a suite.

So say a family wanted to book a suite to get the amenities offered but the cruise they wanted to go on

Was sold out of suites, would you say it would be fair for rccl to have a program in place that would allow a family to pay extra to get the suite benefits, say the last going rate of the last suite sold? And this program would be offered to anyone who was willing to pay the extra suite price to enjoy those suite benefits, while staying in an inside cabin?

So just out of curiosity, if RCCL would incorporate a system where anyone, no matter the cabin can get the same perks as a suite guest as long as they shell out X amount of dollars extra for it, you would be good with that? I was under the impression that when you book a suite you are paying for the type of cabin just as you would if you booked a regular old inside cabin. One isn't paying extra per say for a suite to get the amenities, you are paying for the bigger room, walk in closets, bath tubs, second bedrooms, bigger balconies etc and the extras (special seating etc) is just a perk of booking a suite.

 

So say a family wanted to book a suite to get the amenities offered but the cruise they wanted to go on

Was sold out of suites, would you say it would be fair for rccl to have a program in place that would allow a family to pay extra to get the suite benefits, say the last going rate of the last suite sold? And this program would be offered to anyone who was willing to pay the extra suite price to enjoy those suite benefits, while staying in an inside cabin?

No, it needs to be capacity controlled. Nothing wrong with suite customer having a few extra benefits

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So just out of curiosity, if RCCL would incorporate a system where anyone, no matter the cabin can get the same perks as a suite guest as long as they shell out X amount of dollars extra for it, you would be good with that? I was under the impression that when you book a suite you are paying for the type of cabin just as you would if you booked a regular old inside cabin. One isn't paying extra per say for a suite to get the amenities, you are paying for the bigger room, walk in closets, bath tubs, second bedrooms, bigger balconies etc and the extras (special seating etc) is just a perk of booking a suite.

 

So say a family wanted to book a suite to get the amenities offered but the cruise they wanted to go on

Was sold out of suites, would you say it would be fair for rccl to have a program in place that would allow a family to pay extra to get the suite benefits, say the last going rate of the last suite sold? And this program would be offered to anyone who was willing to pay the extra suite price to enjoy those suite benefits, while staying in an inside cabin?

Like I said. I do not base my enjoyment off of what others do or pay for on a cruise/vacation. With that in mind, if Royal chooses to do so, then so be it.

Would this work. IMHO no because I have always felt that when you do book something in a suite category, any where, it is more then just real estate.

I suspect that we are blessed with lower pricing because of the number of cabins available. If they could charge more and still fill the ship they would and the ala carte pricing would likely not disappear as long as folks keep paying for cup cakes, burgers, and ice cream.

Of course, you have a good point as usual, OB. That said, if the economy was booming along, and people had healthy incomes in said growing economy instead of the morass that we find ourselves, prices would be much higher. Although, I do believe that the cruiselines are making some money since they are now building new ships unlike the situation where after the Oasis and Allure were launched nothing was really on the horizon for several years. I think the way they can individualise their vacation experience with a la carte pricing, helps make lower fares profitable for the companies.

Heck if we hadn't done everything possible to maintain the recession we might have lots more cabins on a lot more new ships. By maintaining a dead economy we not only lost economic growth, but all the things that growth makes...

Happy thanksgiving.

jc

Of course, you have a good point as usual, OB. That said, if the economy was booming along, and people had healthy incomes in said growing economy instead of the morass that we find ourselves, prices would be much higher. Although, I do believe that the cruiselines are making some money since they are now building new ships unlike the situation where after the Oasis and Allure were launched nothing was really on the horizon for several years. I think the way they can individualise their vacation experience with a la carte pricing, helps make lower fares profitable for the companies.

 

Heck if we hadn't done everything possible to maintain the recession we might have lots more cabins on a lot more new ships. By maintaining a dead economy we not only lost economic growth, but all the things that growth makes...

 

Happy thanksgiving.jc

and Happy Thanksgiving to you also.:)

As someone else mentioned. My issue isn't the up-charge dining options, my issue is the quality of the fare included options seems to be going down.

That being said, I still will not go hungry on a cruise and can find something I enjoy every meal on the fare included options.

Well, I agree with the OP. Some say cruises are cheaper than 20 years ago. Of course they are! Ships are 2-3 times bigger with more paying customers, drink prices that are absurd, etc. I've only been cruising for 10 years. Prices have gone down some, but amenities have as well. MDR is not as good as it once was. Things that were included are now extra. I still love Royal, but it's getting harder to see the difference between them & the lines I don't like because of the a la cart pricing & diminished service.

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There is a certain amount of, pardon the marketing pun, wow factor to a very first cruise. Now after my fourth cruise I do notice certain differences. Some I write off to the simple fact that I am now familiar with the RCCL menu in the MDR. Yes both DW and I noticed it hadn't changed much over 3 years. Our last cruise on X was, surprisingly, a bit sub par of RCCL in overall food quality.

But I'm off course. Changes can be unsettling. It was one thing to smile politely at "fresh squeezed orange juice? Just $$$ on your sea pass card." every morning. It's another to have more and more restaurants at an up charge on top of a fare I already paid.

For new cruisers this will be "normal". For me, except for liquor, excursions and trinkets, I liked the all-inclusive nature and the predictability of the MDR and of the cruise itself. I liked the fact the staff became familiar with me and I've been so extremely fortunate to meet wonderful table mates. Sure it is nice to do chops. I will again. But that's what my expectation of "normal" is.

I'm a bit unconvinced about dynamic dining though. It all seems very Disney world to me having to stress well in advance about pre-picking the restaurant and if you are going to get the time you want and so on.

How is this different from picking a restaurant on a land based vacation? Not much I guess but that's what I like about cruising. I like turning my brain off. I like getting to know my fellow passengers and hearing interesting stories. I don't want the anonymity of cruising alone in a crowd like people are head down, buried in a smartphone ignoring the world around them.

But that's the revenue model of the future. Where there is a way to make money it will surely happen. "Premium economy" is just the less crowded coach seat of yesteryear we enjoyed for the coach price. "Cheaper" airfare yes but food and luggage is a la carte.

Now on cruise ships a la carte will become more prevalent cloaked in the marketing snake oil of "design your cruise to fit you".

Bitter? No. Raising a suspicious eyebrow? Certainly. Do I want to cruise more? Yes. When will I stop? Probably when I actually feel the RCCL or other cruise line hand in my back pocket like a gypsy on the streets of Rome.

Prices have gone down some, but amenities have as well. MDR is not as good as it once was. Things that were included are now extra. I still love Royal, but it's getting harder to see the difference between them & the lines I don't like because of the a la cart pricing & diminished service.

Amongst glowing reviews of many cruises I do see this kind of observation more often. That should be an indication of slow changes over time to become the new "normal"

So just out of curiosity, if RCCL would incorporate a system where anyone, no matter the cabin can get the same perks as a suite guest as long as they shell out X amount of dollars extra for it, you would be good with that? I was under the impression that when you book a suite you are paying for the type of cabin just as you would if you booked a regular old inside cabin. One isn't paying extra per say for a suite to get the amenities, you are paying for the bigger room, walk in closets, bath tubs, second bedrooms, bigger balconies etc and the extras (special seating etc) is just a perk of booking a suite.

 

So say a family wanted to book a suite to get the amenities offered but the cruise they wanted to go on

Was sold out of suites, would you say it would be fair for rccl to have a program in place that would allow a family to pay extra to get the suite benefits, say the last going rate of the last suite sold? And this program would be offered to anyone who was willing to pay the extra suite price to enjoy those suite benefits, while staying in an inside cabin?

The Grand Suite is priced roughly twice as that of a Jr. Suite or Balconey Stateroom because it is roughly twice the size, has two distinct sleeping areas and much larger closets. The additional perks are value added and help market the Suite. I think many would pay extra for the added room alone.

Bitter? No. Raising a suspicious eyebrow? Certainly. Do I want to cruise more? Yes. When will I stop? Probably when I actually feel the RCCL or other cruise line hand in my back pocket like a gypsy on the streets of Rome.

If you stay informed in places like CC, you at least can spot and avoid (most of the time) the gypsy.:cool:

This will be our first cruise, so I won't have anything to compare it to. I have no problems with additional cost dining options, as long as I have a couple free dining options - onn the Serenade, I can do MDR, Windjammer, Park Cafe. We have enough OBC that we can go to Chops or Giovani's if we wish to. As far as suite people having extra perks and special areas? I say "bless you" for paying for the higher priced rooms and perks, because I probably wouldn't be able to afford this cruise if it wasn't for you.

And I don't suffer from "class envy". If you can afford the suites and extra-cost dining options, good for you. And if you can afford to send us a free bottle of champagne for our anniversary, that would be good too :D