BEWARE of shady businesses!

Two months ago we had reserved a hotel in Civitavecchia for our pre-cruise stay in May 2016. We chose a non-refundable rate since they offered a 35% discount. The total cost for the room was charged to our credit card two months ago. Little did we know that Holland America would make changes to our cruise that we did not like so we chose to cancel it last week.

First, we sent our cancellation notice to the hotel and their response was "Please be kindly informed that since your reservation is pre-paid and not refundable it cannot be either cancelled or refunded, as specified on our cancellation policy"

Really? Cannot be cancelled? What are we supposed to do? Go to Civitavecchia just to stay there because we cannot cancel? Ok, we had a good laugh with this one. We replied that they can keep the money for the non-refundable room, but we are not going to be able to go. So we got a response saying that it was cancelled. That was the end of it, or so we thought.

Then we notice that two days ago they charged our credit card 150 euros and when we asked about this charge, we are told that it was for the transfer that we were going to take from Fumiccino to the hotel in May 2016.

Previously when we reserved the room, the hotel gives the option to reserve a transfer through them. We had asked how we were supposed to pay for this transfer and we were told that it had to be paid to the shuttle driver in CASH, BUT we had to send them our flight information at least a week before we arrive so they could confirm our reservation for the transfer. We never sent them the information because we were waiting for a few weeks before.

Then the hotel says that the reason they charged it to our credit card is because the transfer is also non-refundable. First, there is nothing on their website that the transfer is non-refundable, the only part that is non-refundable is the room rate that has a 35% discount. There is absolutely nothing saying that you had a choice of reserving a non-refundable transfer. Second, how can it be non-refundable if you have to pay it to the shuttle driver in cash!!???

So we go back and forth through several emails and long behold we get an email from them accepting it was a mistake and now: "The only way we can refund the money is with a bank transfer"

Yeah right.... needless to say we filed a dispute with our credit card company and they cannot believe their response and of course they advised us not to give out our bank account information. If they were able to charge the credit card, they are able to refund the same credit card.

It's in their hands now and we have all the correspondence to prove that the hotel admits it was a "mistake". Sure!

Be aware of this happening, not only with this hotel, it happened to us in with a tour company in Budapest. They would only refund to our bank account because the money would get to us "faster". We notified PayPal and within 3 days we had the refund in our credit card.

Do not fall for this shady business practice. NEVER give out your bank account information. Report it to your credit card company or Pay Pal and it will be handled.

Travelers beware!!

When you see Non-refundable that's exactly what it means. Sorry you lost your money.

We don't mind losing the money for the room. We know what "non-refundable" means and you take the risk, but the transfer that has to be paid cash is definitely not part of the room rate nor was there anything that said it was non-refundable.

How can something that has to be paid in cash be non-refundable.

Can't do any research for you without the name of the hotel…

Yep, if you try to save money with the pre-paid/non-refundable/non-changeable rates, you roll the dice. This time, you lost. At least you knew about that part up front. At my hotel, we strongly encourage people who book with us on the pre-paid rates take out trip insurance. Especially in the winter, when a family is paying $2000/NIGHT for their room and it is in peak, non-refundable season, that's a hefty chuck of money to lose. We get multiple calls every day from people who either booked the prepaids or a "flexible" rate that is inside the cancellation/change period (most rates anywhere have a time that, when it passes, you will lose at least the one night deposit) who try to sway us with their sob stories to get their money back. Best so far was a mom who booked a month in advance and called the day before to try to get her money back because she was in the middle of a custody battle and her attorney told her that leaving town was a bad idea. Now, why did she just figure that out the day before???

For that transfer - just curious why you paid so far in advance for it? Is the hotel that far away from the port that it is costing so much money?

travellovers2,

So sorry you lost your money.

Yes indeed in my almost 30 years of travelling, I have found some pretty shady or questionable travel deals. I wanted to stay at a B&B near Arnhem Holland, they had a website, but when it came time to book, she wanted the money deposited into her bank account. We had a heck of a time going to Bank of America and wiring the money to her bank account. Silly us, we should have just found another place to stay.

Then for our Med cruise I found a B&B in Rome not far from the Vatican. I liked the looks of it, said it was on the ground floor, twin beds, fit the bill. I made the reservation on-line and received a confirmation immediately. The next day, I received an email, they were sorry, they could not accommodate us on the dates we needed, could we change the dates? I responded no, we were on a cruise and those were the dates we would be in Rome. He responded he was sorry his room was booked. Now this was like 6 months before we were going. About a week before we were to leave, my phone rang at 3:30 am in the morning and it was the owner of this B&B asking if I wanted the room. I told him no, I had booked another hotel when he said he was unavailable. He kept me on the phone for at least 15 minutes trying to talk me into taking his room. I finally said NO, you cancelled the reservation, not I. He still finally asked me, you really don't want the room. Thank goodness he did not try to charge my credit card.

So we do have to be savvy travelers. Happy Travels to all.

For that transfer - just curious why you paid so far in advance for it? Is the hotel that far away from the port that it is costing so much money?

I didn't say I paid for the transfer ahead of time. The hotel said that they could reserve the transfer for us and we had to pay the shuttle driver in cash. How can we pay that in advance if it has to be paid in cash? So how can they say it's non-refundable? See the shady business practice?

We were to arrive in Fumiccino and the hotel is in Civitavecchia.

agabbymama.... that's why I prefer to book an American chain hotel, like Marriott. Some people say that you don't get the local feel. I don't care. I get enough local feel without staying in a local hotel. With Marriott all we have to do is write to customer service and we get attention. Once I didn't think I got the attention our issue deserved and I went as high up as I could, there was nothing higher, and got results.

I feel sorry for those that think they have to give away their bank account information to get their money back. Actually PayPal has earned my respect. Excellent customer service. That one tour company in Budapest wanted our bank acct number, routing number, full name and address. I was ready to ask her if she also wanted our SS# so she can complete her identify theft shopping list. :cool:

The first part of your post throws ppl off I think- folks are hung up on the non refundable room fee opposed to the second part of your post which talks about the transfer and bank wire request (both of which are incredibly shady)

That's why I mentioned the non-refundable issue to show that we understand that part, and this is what triggered the second part, but the transfer does not make sense since it's a cash deal with the driver and it was not even confirmed.

But... Even after they admit they should not have charged us the transfer AFTER we cancelled the room, they tell us that the ONLY way to refund the money is directly to our bank account. This is my main reason for posting this.

Sounds like they're not the only ones doing this. So travelers beware!!

It would be much more helpful if you told us the name of the hotel. If there is shady practice going on, people can't avoid the hotel in question if they don't know which one it is, and if this is a mistake on the part of a reputable hotel, we can't give you any reassurance unless we know who it is.

As far as booking a large chain, that just isn't possible in Civitavecchia, so local hotels are the only way to go.

Sorry you had this problem.

Yes, you should mention the hotel and also post a review on trip advisor.

Keith

I am debating if I should mention the hotel because we have not stayed there. Is it fair to trash them after they have agreed to correct the situation and admitted their "mistake" same goes for the tour company in Budapest?

I sent a question to TripAdvisor to see if I can post a review just to mention what happened. If they say yes, then I will post a review which goes further than posting a thread that will eventually get lost in the shuffle.

This can happen anywhere and so far it has happened to us twice in two different countries, so the purpose of this post was just to warn people that if it does happen to you, no matter where, don't fall for it. Let your credit card company handle it.

This happened to me once. It's a gamble. I lost. I moved on.

This happened to me once. It's a gamble. I lost. I moved on.

What did you lose?

If you are referring to the "non-refundable" room, we did not have a problem with that. I think you read the first paragraph and made an assumption as to what was the rest of my post was about.

In regards to moving on, well we're traveling in a week and two months after that and in 4 months after that one too, so it's not a life changer for us.

But, if you did read the rest of the post and you lost in reference to allowing these crooks to charge your credit card without your consent for a transfer that had nothing to do with the non-refundable room, then I feel sorry for you for allowing them to victimize you.

I re-read the OP post. It did sound like they were pissed at the no-refund of the hotel, too. But, they accepted that and moved on. They had no cause to be pissed - they knew it was non-refundable.

The transfers were indeed strange. Saying it was cash, then charged, was definitely hinkey. But, the OP has done the only right thing they can do - dispute that specific charge with the CC company.

Nothing really to see here, time to move on. Now, if the OP would tell everyone the name of the hotel, we could, should we have to find a hotel in Civi, opt to not use that one.

If people wish to stay at the large American chains to feel like they won't get ripped off, good luck. TA is full of stories of rip offs at Marriotts, *woods, Hiltons. They also have large staffs to try to keep the ripoffs (in both directions) under control. They also keep a record of every complaint made - it is looked at when you make another complaint. If a pattern arises, you may be seeking out another chain. When someone is making a complaint, the first thing I do, after talking to the guest, is to go to their "permanent folder" and see if they have a pattern of complaints. There ARE people who seem to make it a game - complain about anything to get some sort of recovery, be it a bottle of champagne to a suite upgrade from the lowest category of room, to a free night. It's a sort of blackmail "give us X or we'll go upstairs and write on TA". Go ahead, write it up on TA. The hotels do have remedies to have reviews removed if they can show it is malicious or incorrect.

I re-read the OP post. It did sound like they were pissed at the no-refund of the hotel, too. But, they accepted that and moved on. They had no cause to be pissed - they knew it was non-refundable.

.

Really? I think you need read it again.

We only complained when we saw the charge of 150 euros to our credit card. We noticed it 2 days after it happened. Before that, we had moved on changing the plane tickets and reserving new hotels.

..."First, we sent our cancellation notice to the hotel and their response was "Please be kindly informed that since your reservation is pre-paid and not refundable it cannot be either cancelled or refunded, as specified on our cancellation policy"

Really? Cannot be cancelled? What are we supposed to do? Go to Civitavecchia just to stay there because we cannot cancel?…"

Sounds a little pissed. But, you said you got a laugh out of it, so you were, in the end, OK with losing the room money, it sounds.

Any hotel will tell you exactly what you were told if you cancel a pre-paid/non-refund reservation. When someone calls to cancel and has such a rate plan, we are required to tell them just that. I don't see what is wrong that that. It "covers our butt" that the client was told about this - sometimes people will try to scam the hotel and call Corporate and swear they were never told they couldn't cancel and get their money back.

A general hint here for everyone: When you receive your confirmation READ IT CAREFULLY. If there is anything wrong, or hinkey, call immediately to get it corrected. If you can't call, email. Do not wait. If you do not receive a confirmation within 48 hours, again immediately call/email. If you book online, TAKE A SCREEN SHOT of your final page. You have no idea how many people show up on the wrong date and swear we have it wrong (usually a fault of Orbitz or Booking.com). Or, someone shows up and we have a basic room for them and they swear they booked a Deluxe room with a balcony.

What did you lose?

 

If you are referring to the "non-refundable" room, we did not have a problem with that. I think you read the first paragraph and made an assumption as to what was the rest of my post was about.

 

In regards to moving on, well we're traveling in a week and two months after that and in 4 months after that one too, so it's not a life changer for us.

 

But, if you did read the rest of the post and you lost in reference to allowing these crooks to charge your credit card without your consent for a transfer that had nothing to do with the non-refundable room, then I feel sorry for you for allowing them to victimize you.

I apologize for misreading the post. My issue was just 2 nights in a hotel. It became a bigger issue when they told me I can always stay there again and use the credit, 3 months before I was going to they told me I lost my credit because it had been a year. Even though I was re booking before the year was up. There was nothing I could do so I moved on.

NEVER give out your bank account information.

What is the harm in giving your bank details?

What is the harm in giving your bank details?

Nothing if you don't mind your account being hacked and emptied

I don't know specifically about Italy, but in many European countries it is quite commonplace to give out your bank account details to receive payments. So someone asking for this isn't automatically a shady business planning to steal your money and your identity.

That said, this hotel doesn't sound trustworthy to me, and I also wonder why they won't just refund the credit card, since they obviously saved your credit card number and know perfectly well how to use it.

Also, I assume you have a foreign (non-Italian) bank account, and agreeing to have someone send you 150 euros by international wire transfer would be a terrible idea. By the time all the banks along the way have subtracted their fees, you'll be lucky to see half of the original amount actually credited to your account.

The original mistake of charging for a transfer that was supposed to be paid by cash on the day might be a genuine error or something more sinister.

The offer to return the money by bank transfer, however, is safe and pretty normal in Europe, and not proof of dodgy intentions or part of a plan to further rip off the OP. For example, many eBay sellers happily accept bank transfers as a method of payment. I paid for a bathroom's worth of new tiles by bank transfer. If it's not what you want to do, just have them refund it to your credit card instead.

Nothing if you don't mind your account being hacked and emptied

Since every cheque has all your bank details on it and you have no control once you hand it over, then the number of accounts being hacked and emptied must run to the millions. Every day.

On the other hand...

Evidently paying up front and being non-refundable is the norm in Europe. When planning a Scandinavian cruise for 6 people last May I spent 3 days on computer trying to find 3 rooms in Amsterdam for 3 days precruise. Most wanted to charge total at time of booking. When I asked what their cancellation policy was and they stated" If you get sick,you don't pay". Finally found a hotel with a normal policy. I try not to pay for something I haven't used.

We have a few comments. Pre paid non-cancellable hotel rates are quite common in both Europe and North America. Hotels also have rates that can be cancelled, but you will pay a higher price. This is not a rip-off but simply normal practice.

As to the transfer, if the OP did not specifically book the transfer then they should simply put that item into "dispute" with their credit card company.

Regarding bank account info, one might want to consider that you are giving essentially the same information that is contained on every personal check. So when you write out a check to anyone, you are giving them access to your banking info including things like the routing number, account number, and bank information. If you think there is harm in giving out bank/account details you should be sure to never write a check to anyone.

Hank