Casino "Vault"

And to the OP, how can the game be such a rip off if you never even played?

Like any other game of chance. It's a rip off if you lose and a great game if you win

So full of it!

Dream Feb 2012 Galveston my friend got the key in and won the iPad and $500. right in front of me. Very popular game. OP give it a rest! I know Carnival casinos very well for years in fact. This could not be further from the truth.

Carnival Dream??

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This is probably not true.

 

If the machine has the same chip as a basic slot machine, it contains a RNG (random number generator). On a slot, as soon as the spin button is hit, the chip will generate a random number which correspnds to a physical payout.

 

Thus, it is possible that a jackpot could go thousands of spins before being hit or could be hit on consecutive spins.

 

It is my guess that this machine contains the same type of RNG. So it would be possible to see multiple people win in a short period of time.

 

It would be too easy to figure out if the machine paid out only when a certain dollar amount was put in. Then simply stand there and count.

Read the document linked in post #31. It's the programming manual for the game.

It shows how to set the payout rate for each line (Row) on the game. This game is not a slot machine nor is it regulated like one.

Read the document linked in post #31. It's the programming manual for the game.

 

It shows how to set the payout rate for each line (Row) on the game. This game is not a slot machine nor is it regulated like one.

Regulated? I don't know.

However, slot machines, as well as this one, can be programmed to a certain payout. For a slot, it would most likely be anything from 85%-95%.

In this game, it would depend on the value of the payouts. But having the ability to set a payout rate does not make it different from slots. Indeed, it is similar!

I can put an end to the speculation on this game once and for all. I work in the industry. This machine is programmed to take in a set amount of money before it opens the program to player skill mode. Unless the machine malfunctions you WILL NOT win until the window for skill opens up. They have to do a calibration on the machine on a regular basis to account for wear and tear on the motor and belts that move the key. This makes sure the machine knows where the key arm is at all times. If you knew the settings for each row then yes you could count the plays and know when it is ready to let the players skill be the only factor in winning.

This game is also not allowed to be operated in some States because of the way is is programmed.

Carnival does make a good chuck of money from this and does give out winnings. As I see it the more they make from things like this the less my cruise will go up in price.

I can put an end to the speculation on this game once and for all. I work in the industry. This machine is programmed to take in a set amount of money before it opens the program to player skill mode. Unless the machine malfunctions you WILL NOT win until the window for skill opens up. They have to do a calibration on the machine on a regular basis to account for wear and tear on the motor and belts that move the key. This makes sure the machine knows where the key arm is at all times. If you knew the settings for each row then yes you could count the plays and know when it is ready to let the players skill be the only factor in winning.

 

This game is also not allowed to be operated in some States because of the way is is programmed.

 

Carnival does make a good chuck of money from this and does give out winnings. As I see it the more they make from things like this the less my cruise will go up in price.

 

 

Very interesting... thanks.

Tom

I can put an end to the speculation on this game once and for all. I work in the industry. This machine is programmed to take in a set amount of money before it opens the program to player skill mode. Unless the machine malfunctions you WILL NOT win until the window for skill opens up. They have to do a calibration on the machine on a regular basis to account for wear and tear on the motor and belts that move the key. This makes sure the machine knows where the key arm is at all times. If you knew the settings for each row then yes you could count the plays and know when it is ready to let the players skill be the only factor in winning.

 

This game is also not allowed to be operated in some States because of the way is is programmed.

 

Carnival does make a good chuck of money from this and does give out winnings. As I see it the more they make from things like this the less my cruise will go up in price.

 

 

Wow.. I have learned something new. Thank you.

Wow.. I have learned something new. Thank you.

(You bet!)

Sit at the casino bar and keep records!!! :D:D:D

Tom

I thought I was going to shed some light on this machine but I see most people already knew how it works. It has a "payout schedule" that can be set so the owner still makes an ROI (return on investment) regardless of how big the prize is. Just like slot machines and crane machines.

 

I'm assuming SOME skill is involved even when it's time to payout, I'm sure you have to get somewhere near the keyhole.

I have worked in a place that has a lot of these games of skill. Part of my duty was to do a "coin drop" to test all machines functioning. We have one of these machines that has ipods/giftcards/etc and is set much lower ROI since kids are the primary audience. (3) times I have put the coins in, and without trying moved the joystick and ran it up...not TRYING (because it is a PAIN if I win and have to restock it) and won. It takes ZERO skill when its ready to give.

Something else I'll add. It isn't as simple as counting plays. The Random Number Generator is still at work after enough dollars are taken in.

Also to add to the complexion - it knows the dollar value of each item (Carnival makes the rows all the same, but each hole could be different). So actually your odds are slightly better on the lower dollar stuff that enough ROI has occured for a win, then perhaps the ipad.

Difference is many people are greedy and go for the highest value item.

It is quite a complex operation.

One other comment - not all prize cranes are setup with ROI.

You can easily tell by looking for sensors on the prize chute to see if it is. Lots of older ones aren't.

Finally - on this Sega Key Master...we had a local car business put two cars on the top row, along with the usual ipad, cash, mp3 players and more.

You can BET that if the manufacturer can make people confident to give away a car, the ROI is GUARANTEED!

I have worked in a place that has a lot of these games of skill. Part of my duty was to do a "coin drop" to test all machines functioning. We have one of these machines that has ipods/giftcards/etc and is set much lower ROI since kids are the primary audience. (3) times I have put the coins in, and without trying moved the joystick and ran it up...not TRYING (because it is a PAIN if I win and have to restock it) and won. It takes ZERO skill when its ready to give.

At least with the ring toss and similar carny games of chance, you knew what you were up against!

Not sure if they still have it on any ships, but for years there was a Blackjack side bet where you could "spin the wheel" if you got a BJ with a $1 on the side bet. The top prize was something like $500 or $1000, and there were only a couple dozen spots on the wheel. After playing that a few times and ALWAYS getting either $10-15 when I spun, I asked the dealer how many times he'd seen it hit the top prize. His reply was "In two years... never"! ;) There is nothing there telling you the wheel is NOT random. One tends to (at first glance) think of it like a roulette wheel, but it's far from "fair"!

In the casino, pretty much all side bets are sucker bets... if they offer you even money or insurance at Blackjack -- there is a REASON (hint: it's not to save or make you money)! ;)

Tom

Someone mentioned a ten year old kid winning at this game. Is the game inside or outside the casino?

I decided to play on the last sea day of our cruise on The Legend in April. After trying 3 times, I won $1,000. My husband was shocked because he had been watching people all week trying to win, which makes me believe that if it is only "chance" then I played it at the right time. Oh and because I am awesome!! lol

I decided to play on the last sea day of our cruise on The Legend in April. After trying 3 times, I won $1,000. My husband was shocked because he had been watching people all week trying to win, which makes me believe that if it is only "chance" then I played it at the right time. Oh and because I am awesome!! lol

 

... AND a "ship-on-a-stick".... NICE !!!

Tom

Just returned from a B2B on the Glory. The Casino Vault game is a major rip off. I never once played it but found it interesting how Carnival would take one iPad and some money out of the machine halfway through each cruise to give the appearance that someone won something. If people are winning as Carnival says they are, that means on back to back cruises on the Glory, they gave away 2 iPads and about $3000 in 9 days.

Sounds like Casino Marketing 101

Still trying to figure out how this is a Rip Off. Doesnt change the chance of winning, so now explain how it is a Rip Off.

Someone mentioned a ten year old kid winning at this game. Is the game inside or outside the casino?

The machine (at least on the Paradise) was on the edge of the casino... when you're sitting at the machine the chair is actually in the aisle of the Promenade deck, so technically, not considered inside the casino, I guess.

There were a ton of kids playing the machine every time I passed, and lots of casino workers around- no one ever said anything so I guess it's allowed.

I love that your ship on a stick is in the safe!

This has been a fascinating thread. It's makes me happy that I never played it (don't play slots either).

I'll have to share this with my DD who, if I recall correctly, did try once or 20 times.

On side note, DD did play in the casino for the first time in January. I taught her a little about blackjack, and gave her a basic strategy card. She played at the electronic game on several occasions (she was intimidated by the $10 tables). She would up something like $70 up for the cruise. She's been practicing her basic strategy play for our upcoming cruise.

What was the size of the gun they used to GET YOU TO PLAY THE GAME ?:rolleyes:

I look askance of any casino game that DOESN'T have the rules printed quite clearly on the gaming board (blackjack, craps, and hold 'em poker for example). Many of the games played on cruise ships would get their sorry butts kicked out of Vegas by the Nevada Gaming Commission, but at sea they are their OWN policing authority.

Many people don't realize it but, official state-run gambling commissions like The Nevada Gaming Commission, ALSO LOOK OUT FOR YOU, the patron. They are constantly looking over the shoulders of the casinos to make sure you, the customer, are being treated FAIRLY.

The machine (at least on the Paradise) was on the edge of the casino... when you're sitting at the machine the chair is actually in the aisle of the Promenade deck, so technically, not considered inside the casino, I guess.

 

There were a ton of kids playing the machine every time I passed, and lots of casino workers around- no one ever said anything so I guess it's allowed.

This concerns me.

I have no problem with adults playing the machine.

To set it up on the edge of the casino though and have it attract children seems to cross the ethical line for me.

Children are not allowed to watch in the casino, let alone play. Yet, it seems like Carnival is trying to tempt the kids by making it appear that they can have a casino experience by tossing their money into this machine.

Something's wrong here! Or is it just me who thinks this way?

...

 

Something's wrong here! Or is it just me who thinks this way?

You are not alone!

Tom

I am not sure why you are saying this. I watched a guy win the ipod on the

Liberty cruise we went on. Was that fake or something?

... AND a "ship-on-a-stick".... NICE !!!

 

Tom

My husband won the slots tournament the 1st day on the cruise so the ship on a stick was his along with $500.

One of my DS's friends from the teen club won the iPad and $500.* He told his parents he won it because they had to claim it (since he was under 18). Since he was underage, his parents kept the cash and gave the teen the iPad.

*This event was relayed to me by a 15 year old boy. The details of the event could have been embellished at any step of the way.

The point of me telling it is 2-fold. First, people do win the prizes. Second, kids do play and win. The casino staff is aware of the kids playing, but maybe the parents do have to claim the prizes for the kids.

This picture is pure awesomeness... I'm not sure what I like more, the Ship-on-a-stick, the dice or the fact that there is a ribbon across the money to let me know how much it is.

If I had seen this pic with no background info I would have guessed it was of the safe at Gerry Cahill's house :D