New Europe Cruiser, searching air fare

Hi, After searching the cruise air forum I tried to use Matrix to find flights. I got a good flight and then tried to find it on Delta. It did not show up for the same price. I found the flight but it was 2x the price. Not sure what I did wrong.

I looked at Princess Air for our cruise, it was a great price for exactly the same flights we would have picked through independent search. !/2 the price, very tempting! I do not want to buy second party air for the difficulties that entails if you have a problem. I have had that experience before!

Advice? We need to fly from SAN to BCN to catch our cruise. I have looked at various routes, I am not locked into any airport. I am locked in to departure/ arrival times. I want to leave SAN at 7:30 am - 8 am 9/29 2018 and arrive BCN around 7:30 am to 8 am Sept 30 (next day).

I want to fly from VCE to SAN on 10/18 at around late morning, I have no idea how long I need to allow for re-entry to US for baggage claim, customs, and security to re-board next flight. I was thinking of flying from VCE to Zurich then direct to SAN on Swiss or Edelweis to have a more direct flight but I know nothing about this airline. Also thought we would then end up with immigration in our home town. Good idea or not and why?

Other ideas?

Thanks for the input!

Hi, After searching the cruise air forum I tried to use Matrix to find flights. I got a good flight and then tried to find it on Delta. It did not show up for the same price. I found the flight but it was 2x the price. Not sure what I did wrong.

I looked at Princess Air for our cruise, it was a great price for exactly the same flights we would have picked through independent search. !/2 the price, very tempting! I do not want to buy second party air for the difficulties that entails if you have a problem. I have had that experience before!

Advice? We need to fly from SAN to BCN to catch our cruise. I have looked at various routes, I am not locked into any airport. I am locked in to departure/ arrival times. I want to leave SAN at 7:30 am - 8 am 9/29 2018 and arrive BCN around 7:30 am to 8 am Sept 30 (next day).

I want to fly from VCE to SAN on 10/18 at around late morning, I have no idea how long I need to allow for re-entry to US for baggage claim, customs, and security to re-board next flight. I was thinking of flying from VCE to Zurich then direct to SAN on Swiss or Edelweis to have a more direct flight but I know nothing about this airline. Also thought we would then end up with immigration in our home town. Good idea or not and why?

Other ideas?

Thanks for the input!

 

There are multiple ways to construct a fare. In ITAMatrix when you select the route it should show you a screen that has some details called "Fare construction" That is the details on how ITA pulled together the fare structure for that flight. If you call the airline 1-800 number and give them that detail then they can construct it.

 

You will be ticketed by one of the airlines on your trip, usually the first one. That airline will have a partnership with the other airlines and be authorized to sell segments on their behalf. End result is a single ticket, multiple airlines. Having all the tickets on a single ticket means if you miss a connection it is the airlines responsibility to deal with the problem.

 

Entering the US can be a pain, some airports are better than others, some times of the day are better than others. The airlines have minimum transfer times that account for this and in principle will not sell you a ticket that breaks these minimum transfer rules. Some on this board will tell you that these minimum times are not sufficient, and in some cases there some truth to that. For a more specific answer your going to need to ask about a specific airport.

 

If you fly through a Canadian airport (e.g., Toronto or Vancouver) or some European airports such as in Ireland they operate pre-clearance. For example in Toronto or Vancouver you clear US customs while on Canadian soil. When doing a transfer such as this your bags are automatically transferred.

 

Lufthansa is a very large European airline and highly respected, they are Star Alliance partners with United and Air Canada on the North America side. They own Swiss and Swiss owns Edelweis. I have flown Swiss several times, no real complaints. Edelweis is a more leisure oriented brand, I don't have any direct experience with them.

This past week Lufthansa just started flying 5 days a week to Frankfurt from San Diego with connections throughout Europe. If times work might be an easy return from Venice. To Barcelona, although usually expensive, British Airways has a nonstop to London with easy connections to Barcelona.We did a similar itinerary a few years ago and wound up with 2 stops each way from San Diego.

This past week Lufthansa just started flying 5 days a week to Frankfurt from San Diego with connections throughout Europe. If times work might be an easy return from Venice. To Barcelona, although usually expensive, British Airways has a nonstop to London with easy connections to Barcelona.We did a similar itinerary a few years ago and wound up with 2 stops each way from San Diego.

 

Both Frankfurt and London Heathrow are major European hubs. Out of each you will find multiple connections to Venice and Barcelona. Sounds like good options.

 

Others may have different preferences. My preference for a transit airport would be Zurich, Frankfurt and lastly London.

If you’d consider leaving from LAX, you can find fares half the price of SAN.

Actually the LH flights LAX-FRA and SAN-FRA are almost exactly the same, and not too expensive.

Thanks for the responses, I will keep looking. The abbreviations throw me as I am not an airline junkie. LH? Lufthansa?

I am looking at multi city trips, on specific airlines, ie UA, Delta and on Matrix site. The type of seat terminology is confusing. The Matrix site showed a Delta flight with "premium economy" seats. The Delta site not only showed the trip at twice the price but there was no choice for "premium economy", they did have a whole host of cabin preferences. Totally lost on this!

I will try again looking for "Fare construction" as suggested above.

Thanks for the responses, I will keep looking. The abbreviations throw me as I am not an airline junkie. LH? Lufthansa?

I am looking at multi city trips, on specific airlines, ie UA, Delta and on Matrix site. The type of seat terminology is confusing. The Matrix site showed a Delta flight with "premium economy" seats. The Delta site not only showed the trip at twice the price but there was no choice for "premium economy", they did have a whole host of cabin preferences. Totally lost on this!

I will try again looking for "Fare construction" as suggested above.

 

Yes, LH is Lufthansa.

 

If you are looking at United (UA), it is quite likely you will see the non-stop LH flights from SAN, as LH and UA are in the Star Alliance. That is a benefit to you.

Thanks for the responses, I will keep looking. The abbreviations throw me as I am not an airline junkie. LH? Lufthansa?

I am looking at multi city trips, on specific airlines, ie UA, Delta and on Matrix site. The type of seat terminology is confusing. The Matrix site showed a Delta flight with "premium economy" seats. The Delta site not only showed the trip at twice the price but there was no choice for "premium economy", they did have a whole host of cabin preferences. Totally lost on this!

I will try again looking for "Fare construction" as suggested above.

 

There is a little problem using the matrix for premium economy seats. It will classify “comfort seats” as premium economy (they are actually two different products). The Delta site makes a clear distinction between the two. Delta only has a few flights with true Premium economy to Europe.

 

Note: Lufthansa does have a true PE product, UA does not.

Thanks for the responses, I will keep looking. The abbreviations throw me as I am not an airline junkie. LH? Lufthansa?

I am looking at multi city trips, on specific airlines, ie UA, Delta and on Matrix site. The type of seat terminology is confusing. The Matrix site showed a Delta flight with "premium economy" seats. The Delta site not only showed the trip at twice the price but there was no choice for "premium economy", they did have a whole host of cabin preferences. Totally lost on this!

I will try again looking for "Fare construction" as suggested above.

 

Premium Economy is very similar to what in the US is sold as a domestic first class seat. You will find this on most of the European airlines and Air Canada. The US airlines are starting to offer this, but it only installed on a small number of aircraft.

 

There is also a Comfort plus type offering that is a regular economy seat with extra leg room. Not quite premium economy.

 

International Business Class is a seat that opens up to a bed and is quite nice, but expensive. Most major international airlines (including the major US airlines) have this on their overseas aircraft.

 

Internationale First Class is becoming very rare.

 

The international airlines are all in international alliances and sell seats on each other aircraft. That is the reason you will see a United and Lufthansa flight number on the same flight. The "Operated by" will tell you who is operating the flight.

 

For the best price you want the flight to Europe and the flight back all on one ticket even if operated by different airlines.

We need to fly from SAN to BCN to catch our cruise. I have looked at various routes, I am not locked into any airport. I am locked in to departure/ arrival times. I want to leave SAN at 7:30 am - 8 am 9/29 2018 and arrive BCN around 7:30 am to 8 am Sept 30 (next day).

Is there a reason why you want such specific times? For the kind of journey that you're doing, it can be very difficult to match requirements like this. A bit more flexibility is likely to yield you more options.

 

The other thing that isn't clear is whether or not you actually want to fly premium economy. True premium economy will have a significant effect on prices. I'm wondering whether that's the reason that you're seeing a price on the Delta website that is more than is being shown by ITA (which may be pricing normal economy).

One way to check on fare disparity is to record the fare basis code that you find on ITA and compare with what the airline website shows. If they are different, you are talking apples and oranges. Don't just rely on "economy" or "premium economy" or whatever, as it's the fare basis that matters, not the label.

Thank you all so much!

My rationale for the times: I am flying from SAN in the morning to BCN overnight so that I will arrive in the am and have the day to tour the city. I will be exhausted as I do not sleep on airplanes. So I thought if I flew overnight and I had something close to first class I might be able to sleep. The cost of true first class is too much for me, more than my whole cruise.Thus I used the term "premium economy" and have since learned that the term varies with the airline. It was a drop down choice on the Delta search. On the flight back from VCE I thought I needed late morning due to the city, navigation issues and fog in Oct. I wanted to avoid potential delays and thought a flight later in the morning would help. Also trying to figure out best airport for US customs on the way back. If I can get direct to SAN that would be best as we do not need to connect. Limited availability of that flight but did find one. If I have to choose between: ORD, JFK, or PHL which would you choose?

 

Okay I see I need to look at the code. So I just goggled airline fares. Informative but one more layer to decipher. Sigh! This ticket buying is going to take awhile.

The way to have the biggest chunk of the day in BCN is to fly West Coast to US East Coast (typically a morning departure, getting to an East Coast airport later in afternoon), then catch an overnight flight from there to BCN, which will probably get you there before 8am.

 

Doing the LH flight SAN-FRA, then connecting to BCN will not get you to BCN until about 1pm at the earliest.

 

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over which airport is the easiest to clear Immigration and Customs coming home. Just make sure you have enough time...probably 90 minutes minimum at any airport. Getting the nonstop LH flight FRA-SAN would be the best for many reasons.

My rationale for the times: I am flying from SAN in the morning to BCN overnight so that I will arrive in the am and have the day to tour the city.

For that plan, you don't need to be that specific with times. If you limit your search that much, you will run the risk of missing decent options. You just need to look for flights that depart SAN in the morning and flights that arrive in BCN in the morning. In any event, you're likely to be exhausted when you arrive there, so I really wouldn't plan on being able to do much useful sightseeing on the day that you arrive. This means that you need to be even less specific about when you get there. After all, if I have read your past posts correctly you have two nights in Barcelona before your cruise actually departs.

 

So I thought if I flew overnight and I had something close to first class I might be able to sleep. The cost of true first class is too much for me, more than my whole cruise.Thus I used the term "premium economy" and have since learned that the term varies with the airline. It was a drop down choice on the Delta search.

I think you need to manage your expectations for premium economy. It's nowhere near first class. It's probably a reasonable way short of US domestic "first class". It's still miles away from any modern international long-haul business class, and it's probably better to think of it as "significantly better than economy".

 

Delta's branding is confusing, and this is the second time this week that I've been struggling with it; a family member couldn't easily identify which brand is business class because they didn't know whether or not Delta has a true first class. (It doesn't, and "Delta One" seems intended to disguise that fact.) It looks to me like you're looking for "Premium Select" if you want Delta's premium economy (or Air France's equivalent, should you be on an AF aircraft). But at first glance, it looks like you'd have to have a two-connection itinerary to get premium economy between SAN and Europe. So Delta may not be the best option anyway; I would be looking for a one-connection itinerary unless there are some seriously good reasons for connecting twice.

 

On the flight back from VCE I thought I needed late morning due to the city, navigation issues and fog in Oct. I wanted to avoid potential delays and thought a flight later in the morning would help.

Are you flying on the day that you disembark the cruise, or are you having a post-cruise stay in Venice? If it's after a post-cruise stay, I really wouldn't worry about local issues for getting to the flight. So long as you are happy with the flight time and it's not at a silly hour of the day, it'll be fine. You should really be focusing more on the flight choices and the reasons for making them.

 

The main reason for being time-specific for a post-cruise flight is if you are disembarking and flying on the same day; it's in those circumstances that you need to be aware of things like the ship being late, and how long it takes to disembark. But if I have understood it correctly, that's not what you're doing.

 

Also trying to figure out best airport for US customs on the way back. If I can get direct to SAN that would be best as we do not need to connect.

A flight that is non-stop from Europe to SAN would be best, because it avoids you having to clear US immigration and customs at the connection point, for which you would probably want to allow more time than you're likely to need, just in case it's particularly slow that day.

 

Okay I see I need to look at the code. So I just goggled airline fares. Informative but one more layer to decipher. Sigh! This ticket buying is going to take awhile.

This is important only if you want to work out why one website (eg ITA) is displaying fares that are different from those displayed by another (eg the airline's own website). If you need help with specifics, then if you're prepared to post them some of us may be able to help.

Thanks Globaliser and Cruiser Bruce. You are correct I am flying into BCN pre cruise and staying post cruise in VCE so no problems on arrival or departure with cruise ship timing. I was looking originally at a ticket SAN to IAD early morning then IAD to BCN late afternoon, a red eye. So, yes that is where the morning times came from. I will just pick morning as I search instead of a specific time. There seem to be more afternoon departures from SAN with late afternoon/evening BCN arrivals. Maybe I need to consider that, and it may be cheaper to go a day early and add hotel night, if possible, to get better fare.

 

Thanks for all your help I think I have a better idea of how and what to search.

Premium economy can be a bit hard to search for on ITA because of ITA's cabin selection limitations. However, you might be able to do something like this:-

 

 

The short connection on the way back would make me think; there's a high chance that you'll make it but obviously the risk is greater than if you had a long connection time. An alternative is the 0750 VCE-LHR flight, with a 6:15 connection time, if you think that you're able to get up early enough to do that. These are the sorts of considerations that you'd need to balance when choosing what to do.

 

As far as I can see, Lufthansa has availability problems on the dates you need to fly, so the price is correspondingly high.

 

But this is far from a comprehensive search, so you'd want to keep working at it.

Different people handle jet lag differently. So take this with a grain of salt.

 

Yes as others have said, you don't want to be so specific on times.

 

I find it is best to arrive late morning early afternoon. That way when you get to the hotel your room is available. Worse possible thing is arrive early in the morning, your tired and you don't have some space to go.

 

If you can nap (or close your eyes a bit on the aircraft) even if it is not real sleep you will do better the next day.

 

There are a few daytime flight but the vast majority of flights from North America to Europe are overnight. You usually arrive in Europe in the morning. If you are connecting in Europe it means you get to your final destination city late morning or early afternoon.

Globaliser, thanks for the screen shot, very helpful.

em-sk, good idea about afternoon arrival for hotel check in.

Not sure this will help but we did Atlanta to Rome, then Barcelona to Atlanta last October 2017. My niece flew from San Diego to Atlanta, then we went to Europe.

 

We booked with Princess Easy Air, which was super easy to use and the best price. I know people say EasyAir changes things on you, we didn't have that experience. We wanted to fly Delta, to add to our points and they were the cheapest. I do not sleep on flight either so we upgraded after we bought the tickets to Premium Economy and it was great. Besides Delta feeding me every few hours lol, I slept fine and hit the ground running in Rome until we crashed at night.

 

My niece left in the AM from San Diego, met us in Atlanta, we flew out at 4pm ATL time and arrived at FCO at 8:30 am. On the return, we flew from Barcelona straight to Atlanta, then niece said goodbye and grabbed another flight to San Diego.

 

Have fun and Enjoy

Kathy

Globaliser, thanks for the screen shot, very helpful.

em-sk, good idea about afternoon arrival for hotel check in.

 

Yes, you might have difficulty checking in (but you may not...we checked into a Hilton in Sydney at 9:30, after the 13 hour flight from SFO... you never know), but the hotel will hold your bags for you while you walk/explore. Not a problem.

 

I wouldn't late check in ability hold you back from an early arrival.

Not sure this will help but we did Atlanta to Rome, then Barcelona to Atlanta last October 2017. ...

 

... I do not sleep on flight either so we upgraded after we bought the tickets to Premium Economy and it was great.

A bit of care is needed here. AFAIK, Delta had not yet introduced its (true) premium economy back then, and according to its website the first trans-Atlantic flights with premium economy only started last week. So I wonder whether this was Comfort+, which is one of those normal-economy-with-extra-legroom products?

Atlanta to Rome... We wanted to fly Delta... we upgraded after we bought the tickets to Premium Economy and it was great.

 

A bit of care is needed here. AFAIK, Delta had not yet introduced its (true) premium economy back then, and according to its website the first trans-Atlantic flights with premium economy only started last week. So I wonder whether this was Comfort+, which is one of those normal-economy-with-extra-legroom products?

 

Almost certainly it was Comfort+, and NOT premium economy.....two very different things, both in terms of the actual seat and in the service provided.