How Successful are the Specialty Restaurants?

I'm wondering how successful the specialty restaurants have been for the cruise lines. The reason I wonder is that on several recent cruises on Princess and Celebrity, it has appeared to me that the specialty restaurants were not very full. For example, on the Crown Princess this summer, it never seemed like the Crown Grill was more than 1/2 full when I walked by. (We ate there twice on a 12 day cruise, and the second time we just walked in without a reservation.) They were constantly promoting the Crown Grill and Sabatini's in the Patters and on the TV, and even handing out flyers about it in the Horizon Court buffet to encourage you to go there. They were obviously trying to drum up more business.

I suspect that the utilization of the specialty restaurants varies from cruise line to cruise line and even cruise to cruise, but does anyone know the overall trend? I'm not sure how the cruise line even measures how successful they are, but they must have some target they're trying to meet of how much they're used. Anyone have any info?

My guess would be "pretty sucessful" otherwise they'd all have closed and they would not include them on newbuilds. Even though they are not 100% occupied every minute they are open they provide a very good opportunity to generate onboard revenue. As your meal has already been inlcuded in the cruise fare, the additional $20-$50 pp they make from the specialty restaurants is significant. The biggest difference is the food preparation as it is too order when ordered and they are not cranking out 1000 dinners, banquet stlye, like in the main dining room.

I wouldn't cruise on a ship that didn't have one and I prefer that they have more than one.

On NCL there are nights that all the pay restaurants are nearly full and other nights when they are not-it varies by trip and restaurants. They are very successful. The new Oasis has more than one.

They make sure they're "successful" by taking the best items off the dining room menu, and putting them in the "pay" restaurants!

I have been a couple of tmes on Princess and there was always a good crowd.

On our trip on Explorer of the Seas (RCL), Portofino's was ALWAYS crowded.

We have been crusing for 30+ years. Consequently these are not a big draw for us. Suspect they have more appeal to new cruisers. We did eat in one on HAL, was not that impressed.

I agree that they are pulling items from the menu in the MDR to try to get folks to pay more for something special.

We don't cruise for the food anyway. Sometimes we skip dinner -- we like to eat a late lunch and really aren't hungry. So they would not make any money off people like us.

Actually think they make more on the wine and drinks then the food anyway.

I suspect the recent economy may have something to do with people re-thinking whether to dine in a specialty restaurant recently. Overall, though, they must be doing their job and generating revenue or else they'd have been scrapped by now.

I'm one who has yet to eat in a specialty restaurant. I'd rather pay to eat a great meal ashore, but that's just me.

They make sure they're "successful" by taking the best items off the dining room menu, and putting them in the "pay" restaurants!

Dining room is and always has been function food and they NEVER make good steaks. How can they be when they are serving 3,000 people for dinner?

For those who haven't been, it's a great way to eat a $150 meal (for two) for $50.

last month on Equinox all the restaurants were quite busy. I am guessing if they werent we could have gotten a seating in Murano on one of the night befor 9:30 on the day on embarkation

I suspect they lose money and always have and the cruise lines expect them to be less than successful in terms of revenue but they are necessary in order to 'sell the ship'. Most people want all these options today and the ships that lack choices may be harder to fill.

A $20 surcharge on HAL ships for Pinnacle does not cover the added cost of real ingredients, breakage of their very costly service plates and goblets/wine glasses etc but we expect to be able to dine there as an option when we wish.

Also, dining rooms are not large enough to seat every guest for every dinner. They have to spread guests around throughout the ship in order to get everyone fed every night. Room Service, alternative restaurants and dining room all combined provide enough seating.

I've been cruising since the 1970's and we always go to the specialty restaurants, even so far as going there every night on our last cruise. We like the quiet ambience and the great food and service. If they weren't successful, cruise lines wouldn't be rennovating their ships to put those restaurants on ships that didn't have one before.

I suspect they lose money and always have and the cruise lines expect them to be less than successful in terms of revenue but they are necessary in order to 'sell the ship'. Most people want all these options today and the ships that lack choices may be harder to fill.

This is pretty much the conclusion I've reached, at least on Princess. I am skeptical that they actually turn a profit, but I do think their availability is part of the sales pitch and necessary to attract passengers in today's market.

This is pretty much the conclusion I've reached, at least on Princess. I am skeptical that they actually turn a profit, but I do think their availability is part of the sales pitch and necessary to attract passengers in today's market.

Unless you understand how they do their accounting, then nobody can safely guess if they do or do not. It's not likely that they only allocate $25 per person revenue to each passenger served. They probably transfer revenue from MDR to the specialty restaurant. Also, I would guess the bar bills may be a bit higher in specialty restaurants. This is a night out and not the "we get you in and out" atmosphere of the MDRs.

I have always been a big proponent of Specialty restaurants on ships - and have designed/proposed/supervised/ and managed many of them over the years.

Specialty restaurants were never designed to replace the main dining rooms.

They were never designed as revenue generators.

They are an adjunct to the cruise product; an addition that attracts and satisfies a small percentage of current and potential cruisers.

A basic specialty restaurant costs the cruise line a minimum of US$5 Million in construction costs. If you took all the revenues generated by that outlet over the life of the ship, they would probably not even pay for the construction.

The specialty restaurant requires additional sous chefs and supervisors. Those people are generally not tipped employees and work for a salary. Those salaries add up very quickly.

Space is the most valuable commodity on a cruse ship. If it is not maximized, there is a big problem. Specialty restaurants can be very busy with an upscale crowd onboard - and dead space when you get the discount cruise crowd.

Specialty restaurants require 15% more service staff than the main dining room does. You never know how busy you will be in one of these outlets.

The average mass market line budgets somewhere between US$7.50 (NCL) and US$15.00 (Princess) per PASSENGER per DAY for food.

Specialty steak houses on ships typically spend around US$20 per pound for their red meat dishes, and more than that for fish. The more meals we serve, the more money we lose.

This completely blows the cruise line`s budget for food.

I love it when passengers complain to me about cover charges and how they will never pay them. I save more money on my overall cost budget every time I hear that.

Then I hear the argument that ships would never install expensive venues that do not turn a profit.

What about the theater?, steam room?, sauna?, swimming pools?, library?, atrium?, children`s center?, teen center?, skating rink?, surfrider?, mini-golf?, basketball court?, rock climbing wall?. Does anyone seriously believe that any of these venues will ever begin to cover the massive costs required just to build them? Not a chance. But that`s not the point of building them.

Specialty restaurants - like the venues listed above - always have been additional attractions for passengers who want something more than the "standard fare".

It started with the SS Bremen in 1906, and the SS Titanic in 1913. It worked well with the upper classes then, and continues to work well with the middle classes today.

I read BruceMuzz's post and I wonder about a couple of things. We cruised on the NCL Pearl and I believe that it had at least 7 extra pay venues. If they do not turn a profit why so many? Noticed that service personel in other areas seemed to be less than other cruises, sent to pay venues? Thought that food in non pay venues had slipped from previous cruises. I am not picking on NCL , it just was the last cruise we took, and I have talked to others who voiced similar thoughts about other lines. We enjoy cruising and believe that it gives a good bang for the buck but wonder that as the current trend to specialty resturants might lead to the buffet type of service be the free food and all sit down service venues be pay for, especially in the Carib. We cruise the Carib. almost always and will be going again in 2 wks. so observations would not apply to other areas of the globe. Just my thoughts. Bill

I read BruceMuzz's post and I wonder about a couple of things. We cruised on the NCL Pearl and I believe that it had at least 7 extra pay venues. If they do not turn a profit why so many? Noticed that service personel in other areas seemed to be less than other cruises, sent to pay venues? Thought that food in non pay venues had slipped from previous cruises. I am not picking on NCL , it just was the last cruise we took, and I have talked to others who voiced similar thoughts about other lines. We enjoy cruising and believe that it gives a good bang for the buck but wonder that as the current trend to specialty resturants might lead to the buffet type of service be the free food and all sit down service venues be pay for, especially in the Carib. We cruise the Carib. almost always and will be going again in 2 wks. so observations would not apply to other areas of the globe. Just my thoughts. Bill

Bill,

You make some excellent points.

NCL is unique in several areas:

1. They spend far less per passenger for food everyday than any other mass market line.

2. Their ships generally feature far more specialty restaurants than the other lines.

3. They lead the pack in offering the lowest upfront fares - and then have to make it up by trying to nickel and dime you endlessly once you get onboard.

4. The quality of the NCL specialty restaurants is not on par with the other mass market lines.

NCL may indeed be heading in the direction you suggest.

What would happen if the other lines tried to do that?

Do you know that most cruise line specialty restaurants can serve a maximum of 100-125 people per night?

Princess currently offers 2 specialty restaurants in their Grand Class ships, which carry 3300 passengers every week. Those 2 restaurants can serve about 250 people at full capacity in one evening. If Princess wanted to force the issue and push as many pax as possible into specialty extra charge venues, they would have to build another 24 specialty restaurants to handle the demand. Where would they put them? Their current 3 main dining rooms wouldn`t have nearly enough space. And the cost of building them; over $100 million per ship. It just couldn`t be done.

They also wouldn`t have enough cooks and waiters. And there are no empty crew beds on Princess ships to accomodate the extra 15% staff needed for the specialty restaurants.

Most new Holland America ships have one specialty restaurant that can serve less than 100 pax per night. Those ships carry 2300 passengers. Shall they build another 22 specialty restaurants to handle the rest? I don`t think so.

Is the quality of food on mass market cruise lines going down? In my opinion - absolutely.

But it is going down at the same rate the quality of mass market cruiser is going down.

We don`t have Mr. And Mrs. Howell cruising with us anymore. Now it`s the Skipper and Gilligan. Mass market dining room food is mediocre wedding reception quality on a good day - especially in the Caribbean. Many of today`s cruisers are happier and more comfortable in a buffet anyway. Maybe NCL has the right idea.

But to answer the original question about Specialty Restaurants being financially successful, the answer remains the same. No. With the present system on most cruise lines, the specialty restaurants are not financially practical and cannot possibly pay for themselves. They are offered simply as an adjunct to the overall cruise experience, and are aimed at a very small percentage of cruisers onboard.

Hi Bruce: Since you are knowledgeable about cruising, I would ask for your take on a couple more of my observations, right or wrong.We have taken 12 cruises in 25 yrs. on most of the mass market lines serving the Carib. except RCCL. It seems to me that many of the venues charged for now were at one time part of your cruise fare, such as ,free coffee availability 24/7, Johnny Rockets, Themed cafes, ice cream, Cova cafe, Bingo done by the crew instead of the gambling operator etc. It seems that cruise lines offer free services and as soon as they prove to be popular they start charging for them,(ie: nickle and diming). Also does not the huge increase of size of ships demand more and more onboard activities such as climbing walls surf riding etc. If my admittedly poor memory serves me the first few cruises we took were port intensive and onboard activities were limited. Many of the ports of call seem to be near capacity and 6000 passenger ships won't help. Sorry didn't maen to rant and ramble. Bill

If HAL loses money on their Pinnacle Grill -- it is their own fault.

They have a huge Pinnacle Grill but will allow only so many reservations each night -- which is ridiclous!! Half the tables are always empty every night because of this restriction.

BruceMuzz thanks so much for responding. I was hoping to hear from someone with some inside perspective. I know my own observations are very limited and anecdotal. As I mentioned before, we ate at the Crown Grill twice on our British Isles cruise this summer and I was really struck by how it didn't seem that busy either time. (I wouldn't think it was a "discount cruise crowd" on that itinerary, but who knows? We did get some nice price reductions after booking.) I enjoyed our experience at the Crown Grill but kept asking myself: does this pencil?

Hello,

Bruce, thank you for a very informative post. My DW and I will go to the specialty restaurant for a special treat at least once on a cruise. While we have no problems with the food and service in the MDR, the extra service and food choices in the specialty dining room add to our overall enjoyment of a cruise. And I have no problem paying the $20 -30 service charge (and sometimes will leave more for the waiters).

The business side of cruising is fascinating to me, and I want to thank you again for taking the time and effort to respond to questions on this subject.

I love it when passengers complain to me about cover charges and how they will never pay them. I save more money on my overall cost budget every time I hear that.

 

Then I hear the argument that ships would never install expensive venues that do not turn a profit.

What about the theater?, steam room?, sauna?, swimming pools?, library?, atrium?, children`s center?, teen center?, skating rink?, surfrider?, mini-golf?, basketball court?, rock climbing wall?. Does anyone seriously believe that any of these venues will ever begin to cover the massive costs required just to build them? Not a chance. But that`s not the point of building them.

 

The meal my family of four had at Crown Grill last Srping would have run me $400 with tip at any decent US steakhouse. That I got out of there for around $100 is a bargain.

Bruce, I hate make your life miserable. But we will go 3-4 times on our next 12-day cruise. I'd go more but probably won't have the time with the crazy itinerary.

We will soon sail again on HAL's Eurodam and certainly will dine in all three of her Specialty Restaurants. HAL's Signature Class of ships have Pinnacle, Tamarind and Canaletto. All other class of ships will have Canaletto and Pinnacle as soon as all the upgrades are completed on the various ships.

All are very, very good IMO

We have dined in almost all of the Pinnacles on all the HAL ships and have enjoyed them all. Any comparable meal at a shoreside restaurant would be four to five times the price per person.

Mass market dining room food is mediocre wedding reception quality on a good day - especially in the Caribbean.

Thank you! ;)