Luggage Dropped in Ocean... Anyone else had this issue?

This bag would cost less than insurance for those that don't want to buy the insurance or really want to protect their things from water damage. I use these on canoe outings all the time and they keep my gear dry when the canoe tips.

http://www.amazon.com/OZARK-TRAIL-Yellow-Float-Bag/dp/B00NFTNYR4/ref=sr_1_8?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1423161097&sr=1-8&keywords=float+bag

Carnival's luggage liability restrictions aren't that much different from all the US based airlines and other US based travel business's. I don't think they flag their ships in Panama to avoid $500 in luggage liability. :rolleyes:

LOL....Yeah....it's an aggregate of things that make them try to escape the clutches of Big Brother:D

Here's a copy of the liability clause form American Cruise Line. They're a US flagged vessel, US chartered corporation cruise line that sails on US waters. Not much different from Carnival's limits.

2. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY (BAGGAGE, PERSONAL PROPERTY); PROHIBITED ITEMS:

ACL’s liability for lost or damaged personal property is limited to the contents of baggage when transferred on or off the Vessel up to a maximum of $100 per passenger. ACL is not liable for Passenger’s lost, damaged, or stolen money, jewelry, electronic equipment (including cameras, computers, ipods, cellphones, etc.) or other items of value, or fragile or perishable items. In no event shall Passenger bring aboard the Vessel or check-in any flammable, explosive, weapon, or any other dangerous or harmful article of any kind, including illegal narcotic or other controlled substance. Animals of any kind may not be brought aboard the Vessel. ACL may refuse to permit Passenger to bring aboard the Vessel any item ACL deems inappropriate.

Seems like a lot of folks like to blame things they don't like on the fact that most cruise ship's aren't US flagged.

Seems like a lot of folks like to blame things they don't like on the fact that most cruise ship's aren't US flagged.

First, I want to clarify that my latest tongue-in-cheek comment was not meant to imply that I was blaming this person's loss of luggage on the fact that Carnival is incorporated in a foreign country. I have stated previously he should have read his contract and taken out travel insurance. I stand by that.

That being said, I can understand why many people have negative feelings towards corporations based in other countries? Here's an article that addresses the problems encountered and may provide some HELP for consumers:

Most American travelers have multiple options when it comes to securing their rights if something goes wrong with a trip. You can file complaints with consumer organizations and trade associations. Contact regulatory agencies and attorneys general. And even litigate through the court system (though the airline industry's "federal preemption" limits your rights via state and local judiciaries).

 

But when it comes to a cruise industry that does not fly American flags on its ships, addressing problems can be more daunting—and often unsatisfying.

 

Foreign flags, domestic problems

 

As I reported last year, only one major cruise ship—NCL America's Pride of America—is registered in the United States, according to data from CyberCruises.com. Most of the big boats fly Bahamian flags, but other popular registries include Panama, Bermuda, Italy, Malta and the Netherlands. In fact, according to Cruise Lines International Association, 90% of commercial vessels calling on U.S. ports fly foreign flags.

 

CLIA maintains there are reasons for such policies: "There are many factors that determine where a cruise ship—or for that matter, any maritime vessel—is flagged. Those determinations are made by individual cruise lines and other ship operators based on varying factors including the capabilities of the flag to deliver the services needed; representation and reputation of the flag in the international shipping community; the performance of the flag state, which dictates how a ship is prioritized by port states; the pool of seafarers able to meet the needs of the flag; and the flag's fees/charges and taxes," the association said by e-mail.

 

This can be viewed as a robust free-market debate. Some maintain burdensome U.S. regulations have forced cruise operators to plant their flags elsewhere, while others say these corporations are seeking to attract American dollars while skirting American safety and consumer protection laws.

 

You can read a detailed analysis of this debate from Caitlin E. Burke of the University of Florida, in her paper "A Qualitative Study of Victimization and Legal Issues Relevant to Cruise Ships." She notes the "flags of convenience" trend dates back to Prohibition: "Cruise lines have been circumventing U.S. statutes and regulations since as early as the 1920s." She also cites a legal journal report on ship registry practices: "By opting to re-flag in a new nation, a vessel owner becomes subject to the safety, labor and environmental codes of that nation. Thus, those nations whose open registries have become the most popular also tend to be those who possess the most lax labor, safety and environmental codes." Burke's summation is that "the legal rights and remedies of U.S. passengers are greatly inhibited."

 

This is a fact that even the Federal Maritime Commission acknowledges: "It is important to know that the Commission has no authority over: passenger line vessel operations, safety issues, amenities onboard vessels or fare levels."

 

Asserting your rights

 

That said, you still retain some basic consumer rights if you book through U.S.-based travel agencies or tour operators and/or use a U.S.-issued charge card. But be warned that you may not be completely satisfied with dispute resolution, particularly if it involves vouchers for a future sailing.

 

Linda Burbank, who writes this section's Traveler's Aide column, has often addressed readers' concerns about cruising. She warns travelers seeking redress that "with cruise lines, refunds are rare; a credit is more likely."

 

CLIA asserts that, "U.S. consumers have extensive legal remedies in the event they need to file a claim," but it notes that "for claims against cruise lines based in foreign nations and that offer cruises that do not stop at U.S. ports, foreign laws may apply and claims may be resolved abroad."

 

If you need more information before making a booking decision, or guidance on a consumer problem, here's a list of key resources that can provide assistance:

 

The Better Business Bureau has reviewed many cruise lines and cruise travel agencies, and those records can be viewed online.

The American Society of Travel Agents offers advice on filing and pursuing travel complaints, both during and after your trip. ASTA also offers specific tips on cruising with "How to Book and Board."

The Federal Maritime Commission has issued a Notice to Cruise Passengers that details the role of the FMC.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Vessel Sanitation Program provides advice for travelers and inspection scores of cruise ships.

The U.S. Coast Guard's Cruise Ship National Center of Expertise details all the relevant federal regulations. In addition, the USCG's Marine Safety Center provides oversight on ship safety "subject to U.S. laws."

The Federal Trade Commission provides information on its investigations into cruise lines' trade practices.

You also may want to consult the National Association of Cruise Oriented Agencies.

The leading travel insurance companies can offer assistance as well. It's important to note if a cruise line you are considering booking is included on an insurance "black list," since this could indicate serious concerns about financial stability or even safety.

Cruise Lines International Association provides historical perspective on the international maritime industry.

For those pursuing justice for victims of crime onboard cruise ships, the International Cruise Victims Association provides a wealth of resources.

British citizens have the added advantage of working through the U.K.-based Passenger Shipping Association, which provides dispute conciliation service, provided the cruise line in question is a PSA member, though many major lines are covered.

Finally, always remember to purchase travel with a charge card, for protection under the Fair Credit Billing Act, since it states "federal law limits your responsibility for unauthorized charges to $50."

Let us knohttp://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2012/12/11/why-are-cruise-ships-registered-in-foreign-countries/1760759/w

So, what happened???

I doubt they will be back.

Sounds like we all revolt and have CCL change their pathetic cruise contract. I personally think it's awful and piss poor customer service.

It's their easy out of being responsible.

Blaming the OP is not fair either.

And regardless of having insurance, one should not have to purchase insurance to cover something that Carnival, or the dock workers should be responsible for.

I promise you if this happened on an airline, people would be having a cow. I don't know why we give cruiselines a "free pass" on instances like this. I don't care what that stupid contract says. It's bad customer service.

Sounds like we all revolt and have CCL change their pathetic cruise contract. I personally think it's awful and piss poor customer service.

No one is forced to go on a cruise...free will and all that. If someone doesn't like a cruiseline's "contract" they don't have to vacation with them. CCL has given passengers the choice, just like airline's have, of keeping their luggage with them and carrying it on and off...but then peeps think they need to pack their entire wardrobe and bring onboard all their latest electronic gadgets and fill their suitcase with stuff that really isn't necessary. I can easily pack for a 10 day trip and only fill an approved carryon size suitcase. Who cares if I wear the same thing twice and one of the reasons I no longer worry about dressing elegantly on formal night. Heh, many of us traveled Europe in our younger days with nothing but a back-pack for six weeks and we survived very nicely.

Really? I just don't understand why the OP didn't go through the bag there in the office, even if just a quick glance.

(I'd have taken a later flight if I had to) BUT since he didn't even peek, there is NO way to know if the 2 bottles of tequila were broken before or after the flight. Insurance is something you hope to never need but sure is handy in this type of unexpected event. We never cruise without it, especially after reading these boards and seeing so many reasons in favor, but we DON'T buy the cruiselines insurance. We pick a policy that best suits our needs from insuremytrip dot com.

Carnival bugs me. If I take my car to have it worked on and they put it up in the air on the lift don't I have a reasonable expectation that it won't fall off and be damaged? It does happen although rarely. We all sign contracts when we leave our cars to be worked on with all the fine print. Sure we can look to our car insurance to make us whole, but should we have to. Maybe the car repair shop says well my mechanic is a contractor and not really an employee so we should look to sue the mechanic.

I understand we all sign the contract, but who really reads it? If we don't agree then we can't sail with them. It's as simple as that.

I know luggage gets damaged wheels and handles all the time and it might not be reasonable to expect our luggage to get damaged, but fall into the ocean, that is very unreasonable to expect it to happen. After reading this it sounds like it does happen more often we would think.

I just hope Carnival steps up and ponies up more money!

I think we got trolled. Well played OP.

No one is forced to go on a cruise...free will and all that. If someone doesn't like a cruiseline's "contract" they don't have to vacation with them. CCL has given passengers the choice, just like airline's have, of keeping their luggage with them and carrying it on and off...but then peeps think they need to pack their entire wardrobe and bring onboard all their latest electronic gadgets and fill their suitcase with stuff that really isn't necessary. I can easily pack for a 10 day trip and only fill an approved carryon size suitcase. Who cares if I wear the same thing twice and one of the reasons I no longer worry about dressing elegantly on formal night. Heh, many of us traveled Europe in our younger days with nothing but a back-pack for six weeks and we survived very nicely.

I can bring as many suitcases as i wish. This has nothing to do with the issue.

As long as we all just accept it and not hold businesses accountable for poor customer service, then they'll continue to do as they please at the very minimum. It is not unreasonable expectations to have your luggage (regardless of how many pieces) returned to you as you left it in their care. It is negligence on their part. They did not secure the luggage safely, overloaded the bins etc. It wasn't as if if one dock worker went crazy and decided to throw bags in the water.

Carnival, if not held responsible, should assist in holding the proper company accountable.

If you fly on an airline, they are responsible. it doesn't matter who pitches your bag in the cargo pit. Cruiselines should be held to the same standards and shame on us for just sitting back and accepting such crappy loopholes.

I can bring as many suitcases as i wish. This has nothing to do with the issue.

 

As long as we all just accept it and not hold businesses accountable for poor customer service, then they'll continue to do as they please at the very minimum. It is not unreasonable expectations to have your luggage (regardless of how many pieces) returned to you as you left it in their care. It is negligence on their part. They did not secure the luggage safely, overloaded the bins etc. It wasn't as if if one dock worker went crazy and decided to throw bags in the water.

 

Carnival, if not held responsible, should assist in holding the proper company accountable.

 

If you fly on an airline, they are responsible. it doesn't matter who pitches your bag in the cargo pit. Cruiselines should be held to the same standards and shame on us for just sitting back and accepting such crappy loopholes.

The airlines may be responsible, but the amount you get is limited to the amount stipulated under the terms and conditions on your ticket.

Just with the cruise line the amount you get is stipulated in the cruise contract.

In both cases responsibility does not change the limits.

I work in insurance; majority of HO policies round these parts have $500 ded. Leaving more than $1000 for the claim. And anything specifically scheduled, won't be subject to a deductible. $1000 claim check or even $500 claim check is better than $50 from Carnival

You think a $500 or even a $1000 check is worth the hit on the OP'S CLUE report? I would never file a HO claim for such a small amount. The long-term cost of doing so can far outweigh the benefit from the one-time check.

I'm very surprised that you would make such a recommendation given the fact that you state that you work in the insurance industry.

I would recommend the following If no relief from the cruise line:

Find or figure out the email for a carnival senior executive and send him a polite email requesting compensation. You can often find their emails online, in SEC filings or figure it out based on their normal email protocol. E.G. John.Smith@carnivalcruise.com. He will typically get so few of these he will forward to someone else..and this now becomes something everyone wants to fix.

If that doesn't work

Contact your local TV consumer reporter. Carnival hates bad publicity and if they try to stick to a $50 charge after they drop your bag in the ocean they will look petty and stupid. Imagine what your local reporter would make this sound like....But they make not take the case

Then - Go Legal

Small Claims Court. Most times big companies won't show up or they will finally settle when their lawyers get the summons.

Here is a case of someone successfully suing Princess over a changed itinerary. He had to go to LA Small claims....but he lived in San Diego. In this case the OP may have to go to Miami....But Princess did show up in court with all their contracts, terms and conditions and the Judge said it was BS and ruled for the passenger

http://www.intltravelnews.com/2012/08/won-court-case-against-cruise-line

""On Jan. 12, 2012, at the Superior Court in Santa Clarita, I presented my case. It took almost 20 minutes, and the judge listened without interruption. The Princess Cruises attorney and the previous representative responded by saying that the cruise had not been canceled and only the port of embarkation and itinerary had been changed.

The judge began asking the Princess reps about the itinerary changes. He also asked why they had not helped me change my airline tickets. He chastised Princess Cruises for the way they treated their passengers, then ruled in my favor. (Clauses A and C are the main reasons I won.)

The judgment in the Superior Court in Santa Clarita was $4,961 (the cost of the cruise) plus $275 (expenses). The judgment was entered Jan. 13, and I received a check for full payment on Jan. 24.""

You don't need a Lawyer and you can cite the following precedents below. The Judge should be sympathetic since this is so OVER THE TOP

Unfair Contracts....$50 for luggage dropped in the Ocean is Unfair....

""Unfair and Unconscionable Contracts

http://www.nka.com/practice-areas/consumer-rights/unfair-unconscionable-contracts/

As a general rule, people are bound by the bargains that they make. Strict application of this rule in today’s commercial society, however, may be unfair because companies hold all the cards when dealing with consumers.

To level this playing field, courts will sometimes refuse to enforce consumer contract provisions that are unfair or unconscionable or impose reasonable limits on such provisions.

An unfair contract term is generally a provision that puts the consumer at a disadvantage and that is not subject to negotiation. Typically, an unfair term is pre-written into a standard form contract (often in fine print) and is offered to the consumer on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

These types of consumer contracts may include rental car agreements, cell phone contracts, cable/satellite TV agreements, mortgage agreements, gym memberships, and other types of form contracts.

E. Michelle Drake

Consumer Law Attorney

Contract terms that indicate extreme one-sidedness in favor of the seller include provisions that limit damages against the seller, limit the rights of the consumer to seek court relief against the seller, or impose punitive penalties or fees on the consumer. In addition, contract terms may be unfair or unconscionable if they contain open-ended provisions that give the seller unilateral discretion to set or change terms relating to price or conditions of service, and the seller later abuses that discretion.

Many states have enacted laws that prohibit unfair or unconscionable contract provisions. As just one example, California’s Consumer Legal Remedies Act explicitly prohibits “inserting an unconscionable provision in the contract.” Cal. Civ. Code § 1770(a)(19). California more specifically prohibits businesses’ use of certain early termination fees when the fee imposed is actually an unlawful penalty.

In addition, several federal and state laws prohibit particular types of contract terms or impose limits on certain terms. Further, in most states, the terms of a contract (particularly a term that is left up to the discretion of the seller) are subject to a duty of good faith and fair dealing. Determining whether a particular contract term is unlawful can be complicated, and Nichols Kaster may be able to help.""

Of course, we all need more frivolous law suits.......If you don't like the rules, than don't cruise. And if you are still going to cruise than get the travel insurance. Plain and simple.

This all confuses me a bit. Not long ago, I was at the customer service counter on ship, the lady next to me was livid because her luggage had been damaged. The rep at the counter told her they would give her a bag they had of similar size and re-emburse her $150 for hers. (she had flown in and traveled straight to the ship, so no way of proving the bag was not damaged during her flight) The $150 was not good enough and she did not want their old suitcase, which I could balme her. She was wanting $500 for the bag because it came in a set (??)although she only needed to replace that one bag. The rep at the desk also told her she could take a cab once in our next port to a store and purchase a similar bag and with the reciept and they would re-emburse her. That wasnt good enough either, because she didnt want to pay for the cab. They seemed over ready to compensate her on the ship, even though they didnt have any proff where or when the bag was damaged. (Unless they were familiar with how it may have been damaged) Anyway, my problem was rectified, and I was getting a head ache from listening to the lady scream and left. I don't know what they ever decided on.

The main point of this now, apparently hypothetical thread, is that having a bag dropped in the ocean is well above normal damage and Carnival should pay extra due to extraordinary circumstances. In fact possible the OP was compensated and as a condition told to keep it confidential which may be why he disappeared.

I would think that bags going in the drink is exceedingly rare..

The main point of this now, apparently hypothetical thread, is that having a bag dropped in the ocean is well above normal damage and Carnival should pay extra due to extraordinary circumstances. In fact possible the OP was compensated and as a condition told to keep it confidential which may be why he disappeared.

 

I would think that bags going in the drink is exceedingly rare..

Check out post #116

I think we got trolled. Well played OP.

My thoughts too..... :rolleyes:

Op, I know its been awhile and most people didn't sound sympathetic to your plight but I am truly sorry for what happened. I had luggage missing after I left it at the cabin door on the last night and will never ever do that again. But what I would like to suggest is that if you did pay for the cruise with a credit card, please call the credit card company. I have two credit cards and both carry a whole bunch of travel insurance for free, including luggage. I would try that out and see where you get. I do hope everything turns out ok. And don't let the people on this board get to you. I really don't post anymore because some people cannot get downright obnoxious.

Although I feel for you, OP, and hope that some resolution was reached, I do have to thank you for this thread - after reading it, I thought, "What if that happened to me?!" and promptly bought a set of spacebags to seal my clothing and other various items in. I figured, if my bag got dropped into the water, at least my stuff would stay dry.

Did it? No. But what did happen was - somewhere between Singapore, Dubai, and JFK, the baggage handlers tore a big hole in my suitcase. I didn't lose a thing...because everything was in a spacebag that was bigger than the hole.

They also tore a handle off the other bag. What the heck, guys!

Of course, we all need more frivolous law suits.......If you don't like the rules, than don't cruise. And if you are still going to cruise than get the travel insurance. Plain and simple.

ABSOLUTELY!!! P*sses me off when people go after companies for money because they didn't do their own due diligence. OP took a gamble by not buying travel insurance. He rolled the dice and got craps. Too bad, so sad!

He and others like him then want the company to lay out extra money to appease his lost gamble. This other guy wants him to sue CCL and that incurs more costs just to defend themselves from these lawsuits.

Where do these people think all this money comes from... the goodwill fairy??? It comes from our increased fares needed to cover defending these nuisance actions. Geesh. I wish people would just take some personal responsibility!

Rant over.