Breaking News !! RCCL to review Gratuities

[GHarkness]

I figure the next step will be that we have to tip the guy who steers the ship and the folks who work on the tenders. The solution is for the cruise lines to stop playing these tipping games and simply include the real personnel costs in the cruise fares and enforce a "no tipping" policy similar to what we have on some of the luxury cruise lines.

 

I'll admit: this really hit my funny bone!

 

"Arrrrrr....pay UP, matey, or it's off in the drink with YOU!" :eek:

 

But I totally agree with this poster. Why can't we just pay people (a decent wage), include it in the price of the cruise, since we have to pay it anyway, and be done with it. We also need a no-tipping policy from that day forward, or next thing we know, it'll be "customary" to tip above the standard tip that we already paid, and we'll be right back where we started.

 

I work in a professional capacity, and I can't imagine having to hope that someone would be decent enough to pay me what I am worth. Some of these people who work on these ships do jobs that I wouldn't do for any amount of money! Can't we just PAY THEM already and quit making them grovel and beg for their wages?? Service would not suffer - it wouldn't take long before the worst were weeded out and those who really know how - and want - to do an excellent job -- would rise to the top. The others would find themselves standing on the shore. But the way some people act on here - and presumably on the ships - if I were in a service position, I would let them starve to death before I went "out of my way" to do anything more than my job. No wonder they call us Americans "cows."

 

Um....sorry, didn't mean to get all worked up on that, :o but I've been holding it in for a long time.

[steponboard]

.

If you want to sail with a US cruise ship, then surely it’s no more than common courtesy to adapt your behaviour to suit US social customs.

These are not US ships they are registered to many foreign countries. The only US ships I know of are NCLA which operate in Hawaii and they do not have to stop at a foreign port.

[Cruzaholic41]

These are not US ships they are registered to many foreign countries. The only US ships I know of are NCLA which operate in Hawaii and they do not have to stop at a foreign port.

 

Come on. Does this really need to be explained? They are ships owned and operated by U.S. companies. The registry of the individual ships is beside the point.

[HorrorFan]

I have a question. Its a tad off topiic but I'll ask it here anyway. Many folks are saying "if you want to sail on an American ship"...

Is RCI an American company? There ships aren't registered in the US. There staff is certainly not American, and it is a publically traded company so anyone can own stock in it.

Not trying to be snarky or anything, just wonder what exactly makes a company American, or British, or Japanese or....

[Cruzaholic41]

nevermind

[carhirer]

I so completely agree with you. And yes, the management will have to deal with the staff although I would motivate them by reminding them that many people (of ALL nationalities) will rightly tip more than their service charge for great service - so if they want to make more....give great service!

Here we go. Even when hoping for an ideal service-inclusive pricing system, the push starts to add a tip for "great service". You can imagine where that will end.

 

I don't want "great service". I just want good service, quietly efficient with none of the OTT fawning and grovelling that the tipping system encourages. If a server is running around catering for your whims, or doing the conga in MDR, he is spending less time dealing with my basic requirements.

 

Treat them like professionals and hopefully they will behave accordingly. Dangle a possible inducement and, while they might jump, I doubt they'll love you for it!

[luckyprincess]

Here we go. Even when hoping for an ideal service-inclusive pricing system, the push starts to add a tip for "great service". You can imagine where that will end.

 

I don't want "great service". I just want good service, quietly efficient with none of the OTT fawning and grovelling that the tipping system encourages. If a server is running around catering for your whims, or doing the conga in MDR, he is spending less time dealing with my basic requirements.

 

Treat them like professionals and hopefully they will behave accordingly. Dangle a possible inducement and, while they might jump, I doubt they'll love you for it!

Good lord - you should maybe just go on a ferry or something. Perhaps you just want someone to hand you a plate, slap you on the fanny and point you towards the buffet - most everyone else would like actual service. This is a hospitality industry - not Chuckie Cheese.:rolleyes:

[MAZANDSTEVE]

Incorrect, its about time RCI payed a suitable wage to their employees and stopped forcing customers from countries other than the US into uncomfortable situations with regards tipping.

 

There are some posters treading a very thin line on this thread, and are in danger of offending a very proud nation.

 

 

I agree!!! I have said all along that RCI should be paying their wages not the paying customer. However, I prepaid the tips simply because RCI are cheap and dont pay them decent wages.

[livylotte]

Lucky Princess - do you not think that everyone prepaying and then some people tipping extra defeats the object?

 

And can I just say ... I think we all have far too much time on our hands :p

[Elizanessie]

Good lord - you should maybe just go on a ferry or something. Perhaps you just want someone to hand you a plate, slap you on the fanny and point you towards the buffet - most everyone else would like actual service. This is a hospitality industry - not Chuckie Cheese.:rolleyes:

 

:)Just so you know for future reference...with regard to where you said 'slap you.....' well that is a completely different place on the body over here...and you would get into serious trouble it you attempted that here.

 

Not trying to be nasty or anything...just pointing it out incase you tried it over here. :eek:

[MAZANDSTEVE]

:)Just so you know for future reference...with regard to where you said 'slap you.....' well that is a completely different place on the body over here...and you would get into serious trouble it you attempted that here.

 

Not trying to be nasty or anything...just pointing it out incase you tried it over here. :eek:

 

 

LOL, I was just having a laugh at that comment ;)

[Lynnees]

Come on. Does this really need to be explained? They are ships owned and operated by U.S. companies. The registry of the individual ships is beside the point.

 

 

Well, you're wrong there. What does need to be explained is why these ships are registered in other countries. Because they don't want to meet US standards and among those standards are decent wages.

 

The fact is that when they sail from and to a port that is not US - be it British, Spanish or whatever, then the customs of that country are the ones that should be recognized. American's expect everyone to go by their customs when in the U.S. (and I agree with that) however with that expectation I expect them to go with the customs of the countries that they are guests in.

[temple1]

Right now cruises from the UK may not be favourite with staff but for RCI they are a cash cow.

 

RCI charges more for it's cruises ex the UK compared to Caribbean cruises because they can. The market dictates the price and right now people are still booking at these higher prices. I recently sailed on Indy and we were packed in like sardines, I think we paid more for our 4 days in the Irish Sea than it costs for a week on the Caribbean. If no one was booking we'd start to see the prices going down I'm sure.

 

.

 

 

If you visit the Laura's thread on the same topic one of the posters has answered the question as to why rates are higher out of the UK. According to the poster it is not the cash cow theory.

[iamwhatiamnot]

I have posted a few times on this thread and I reiterate Americans do it one way and British do it another - no way is right or wrong.

 

This whole thread has now become a slanging match with the Americans demanding that we do it their way.

 

We pay more for our cruises in the UK so if they added the gratuities into the final bill under the heading of service charge then yes all prices would go up. If they paid their staff a proper wage this thread would probably not be in existance. The British pay has a minimum wage level and obviously we are very proud of that fact. The Americans seem to think it ok to pay a below subsistance wage and allow the tipping/gratuity system to make the rest up to a minimum wage. Shameful.

 

This thread has really been a lets slag of the Brits who Americans perceive as being non tipping people. There a many places in the UK where service charges are added to ones bill and in most cases we leave an extra tip for the waiting staff/bedroom attendant but we don't do this before we have received the service. Britian left the doffing of the cap system back in the 1800's and we have a policy of equality. Equality which does not include grovelling for either tips because I am serving you or grovelling by way of giving inducements before a service is received.

 

I will also reiterate what I have said before the statement made at the Travel Conference by the Vice Chairman (I think he was) was completely offensive and factually untrue of the British. I will not be emotionally blackmailed into paying tips/gratuities by anyone. I am the master of my own finances and how I choose to use them is completely up to me.

 

Maybe everyone should write to RCCL regarding their pittance pay to their workers and ask for an apology to the British for the statement made at the conference a better harmony would develop between two nations.

 

If I have offended anyone with the above then I suggest that you look at your inner self and think very carefully as to your true reasons before you start to give offensive answers.

[beastiemom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUNKY

It reminds me of the American Express ad with the US host paying with a credit card with a juvenile picture on the card, and his German? guests laughing to themselves. The waiter was probably relieved that the US host was paying the bill, instead of the foreigner who might just round up a $495 bill to $500, instead of tipping $100 for excellent service.

 

For those foreign guests traveling on their own (without a good guidebook), I can only imagine how quickly they learn US customs after low balling their servers.

 

TWENTY FIVE PERCENT tips,, you think that is normal. Thats hilarious.. used to be 15%,, then 20% now we have an American waiter saying one should consider tipping 25%.. when does it end ?

 

If you want to get snarky, at least get your mathmatic calculations correct. 20% of $495 is $99. 25% of $495 would be $124.00.

 

I understand this issue both ways. I agree that RCI should pay its people a living wage, particularly when they are aware that their assumption (or representation to these employees) are incorrect; that is that all passengers will pay tips, gratuities, or whatever you want to call them, according to guidelines. Then, if I want to tip above and beyond, great. If I don't feel the need, I am not under any guilt or pressure to do so.

 

They could accomplish it in two ways-raise cruise prices accordingly, or add a service fee as many cruise ships have started to do. Clearly, reading these boards tipping has become an issue, and not just with Europeans. I am fine with either way, I just hope whatever they do, they do it for everyone and across the entire fleet. Since they are apparently the line to do this, they won't lose any customers by implementing such a system, and everyone would be better off. Although, I guess the CC boards would have about 30% less threads.;)

 

Some have suggested that if the employees aren't happy, just get a different job. I don't think that it is just that easy. We have become so accostumed to all that we have, I think many have just become dismissive of other's plights. That is true in every first world nation, not just Europeans, and particularly with Americans.

[Cruzaholic41]

Well, you're wrong there. What does need to be explained is why these ships are registered in other countries. Because they don't want to meet US standards and among those standards are decent wages.

 

The reasoning behind the ships not being U.S. flagged is very complex, and it has nothing to do with the cruise lines' unwillingness to pay full wages. You need to stop believing the hype and rumors. With our current laws and customs, the cruise industry would not survive with all U.S. flagged ships.

[bar_20]

Sorry but I haven't read all 11 pages but here's my slant. Service workers in GB and OZ are paid better wages and benifits than their American counterparts. Most US service workers don't have a medical plan or a months paid vacation. Service workers on Cruise ships are paid much less and work longer hours.

 

Unless all cruise lines agreed to include tips in the total price of the cruise it's not going to fly. Also it's been my experience that people that have their tips included with their wages don't work as hard as those that expect a tip at the end of the cruise. To those people that only eat in the specialty restaurants, what about breakfast or lunch, you usually get dfferent servers than your dinner staff. Do you tip them at every meal? Of course not.

 

I think the best way is when the cruise line adds a per day tip to your bill. I remember one cruise that had a lot of spring break college students on it. There was a table of twelve next to our table. This table was mostly college girls. On the last night, tip night, only four people showed up at that table. The waiter and bus boy got screwed out of their tips from those eight. I think that is the reason that more and more cruise lines have gone to automated tipping. The people I don't tip are the union longshoreman at the US docks that make $50.00 an hour to throw your bags on a cart.

[sidari]

A response for the person who asked what UK owned cruise lines do with regard this issue ......

 

Most British-run lines do not expect you to tip the crew. P&O Cruises, although part of the American-owned Carnival Corporation, only make a compulsory charge of £1.60 per day if you are on Freedom Dining. Otherwise, they recommend £3.10 per day but it's not compulsory.

 

Other major British lines, like Thomson, Ocean Village, Saga and Fred Olsen, include tips in their fares.

 

Full Text here.......

http://travel.sky.com/inspiration/cruise/Cruise-Diary;jsessionid=17673C1E407C9DDC2010C2335DE5E2AF

[rdhnd]

Other major British lines, like Thomson, Ocean Village, Saga and Fred Olsen, include tips in their fares.

 

Of these UK lines which do you think is better. I have been thinking of trying a non american line

[dbowe5]

The reasoning behind the ships not being U.S. flagged is very complex, and it has nothing to do with the cruise lines' unwillingness to pay full wages. You need to stop believing the hype and rumors. With our current laws and customs, the cruise industry would not survive with all U.S. flagged ships.

 

I think you need to stop kidding yourself. There is nothing complex about it - they are flagged under a different country to save money - pure and simple! I live where they have an active ship registry and why would someone register their ship in another other than to take advantage of tax breaks/lower costs & different employment law.

[sidari]

Rdhnd ..... not cruised on any of them yet so not able to guide you....:)

[Aquahound]

I think you need to stop kidding yourself. There is nothing complex about it - they are flagged under a different country to save money - pure and simple! I live where they have an active ship registry and why would someone register their ship in another other than to take advantage of tax breaks/lower costs & different employment law.

 

As hesitant as I am to joint his melee, I have to agree with Cruzaholic. She is not "kidding herself." She knows what she is talking about. Yes, the reason has somewhat to do with money. It's a business! But, it has very little to do with crew/staff salaries. It's a matter of survival.

 

I spent many years in the USCG, am still employed as a civilian, and am a licensed Captain, so I do know a little about this topic.

 

All commercial U.S. documented vessels are required by U.S. law to have U.S. citizens in positions of authority (there are exceptions for fishing vessels). This means, Captain, ship's officers, and anyone else in charge of an area. This would completely cut out the vast pool of very experienced mariners from Scandinavian countries, not to mention the rest of the World. Anyone else working aboard has to be a legal resident of the United States or on a legal work Visa. Now tell me, do you really think all these cruise lines would survive and continue to offer the high quality of service they provide if they were U.S. flagged? If you do, you are the one kidding yourself.

[dbowe5]

[

 

I think you need to stop kidding yourself. There is nothing complex about it - they are flagged under a different country to save money - pure and simple! I live where they have an active ship registry and why would someone register their ship in another other than to take advantage of tax breaks/lower costs & different employment law.

 

As hesitant as I am to joint his melee, I have to agree with Cruzaholic. She is not "kidding herself." She knows what she is talking about. Yes, the reason has somewhat to do with money. It's a business! But, it has very little to do with crew/staff salaries.

 

I spent many years in the USCG, am still employed as a civilian, and am a licensed Captain, so I do know a little about this topic.

 

All commercial U.S. documented vessels are required by U.S. law to have U.S. citizens in positions of authority (there are exceptions for fishing vessels). This means, Captain, ship's officers, and anyone else in charge of an area. This would completely cut out the vast pool of very experienced mariners from Scandinavian countries, not to mention the rest of the World. Anyone else working aboard has to be a legal resident of the United States or on a legal work Visa. Now tell me, do you really think all these cruise lines would survive and continue to offer the high quality of service they provide if they were U.S. flagged? If you do, you are the one kidding yourself.

 

Didn't I state about different employment laws in my post??? Please don't jump down my throat before reading my quote properly - I also do know a little on the subject.

[Aquahound]

nevermind

[luckyprincess]

Lucky Princess - do you not think that everyone prepaying and then some people tipping extra defeats the object?

 

And can I just say ... I think we all have far too much time on our hands :p

No, I don't. Most of the people here not from the U.S. have said that they tip more than the service charge when they go out when they encounter great service. Why would it not be different?

And yes, I'm between classes and should be studying!:D