Breaking News !! RCCL to review Gratuities

[aqhacruiser]

According to these cruise articles on USA and Travel weekly the comments about the UK tipping habits were made by

"UK-based industry watcher Travel Weekly says the line's managing director for the UK and Ireland, Robin Shaw, told a cruise forum in Barcelona Thursday that the company is rethinking its tipping system because the British won't tip."

 

 

ABTA 2009: Royal Caribbean to review tipping policy

 

(09 October 2009)

Royal Caribbean International is "evaluating" its gratuities system in the UK because the British won't tip.

Royal Caribbean Cruises vice-president and managing director UK and Ireland, Robin Shaw, told the Cruise Forum in Barcelona on Thursday that the British refusal to tip means the crew is not being remunerated as it should be.

He said it has become a "significant issue" for the cruiseline because of the number of British passengers Royal Caribbean now carries.

From April 2010, Royal Caribbean is basing Independence of the Seas in Southampton year-round for the British market. Sister brand Celebrity Cruises will have Celebrity Eclipse sailing from Southampton next summer, also dedicated to the UK market.

At the moment Royal Caribbean passengers can pay their gratuities at the end of the cruise, but it is not mandatory, or pre-pay them at the time of booking. The latter is compulsory for passengers who opt for flexible My Time dining.

Shaw said: "The British don't tip and that is a challenge for us. We are evaluating our options in the UK."

 

Here are the 2 links to the 2 different recent articles

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2009/10/09/32093/abta-2009-royal-caribbean-to-review-tipping-policy.html

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/cruises/item.aspx?type=blog&ak=68500685.blog

 

Personally I just think RCCL wants to bring its ships whether in the UK, the USA or other markets in line with the industry standard today and that means adding tips/service charges directly to all passengers bills like the other cruiselines already do.

[Seatravelers]

 

Personally I just think RCCL wants to bring its ships whether in the UK, the USA or other markets in line with the industry standard today and that means adding tips/service charges directly to all passengers bills like the other cruiselines already do.

 

Ditto!!! Add the tips to the invoice and then add more or give individuals you encounter during your cruise $$ for extra special service.

Time for RCCL to step up and make this change for the better, imho.

[klr]

We just had our first RCCL cruise and I am happy to hear they are reviewing their tip policies. On other lines, we paid the auto tip and a few times gave extra to the room steward but never the dining room staff as the service did not merit extra.

 

On RCCL we prepaid the tips. On the last day I was suprised to find vouchers and envelopes in my room. As I know the room steward and waiter have a list of who already paid, I threw them away. Then at dinner I saw people handing the waiters the vouchers. I asked the waiter if I was to give him the vouchers. He said no, it's right there in the computer that we already paid. We had terrible service the first night from someone else and great service the rest of the time from him so I handed him some extra cash.

 

Still perplexed over the vouchers, I stopped at the Guest Relations desk on the way back from dinner. I was told, "What do you mean you threw the vouchers away? Those are like cash. You HAVE to give them out. It's the only way the staff knows you have tipped them!"

 

Umm, OK. He printed out duplicates. I took them BACK to the DR and gave them to the waiter who said, " I told you I don't need these. The computer will pay me for every night I served you."

 

Then when I got back to the room I saw the room steward and had sorted through my trash and put the vouchers back on the table along with another tip envelope for himself, right there next to the dirty glass he couldn't manage to take away for 2 days. Not only was he not getting anything extra, but that greedy little act made me so mad that I would have marched down to GR and had ALL his tips removed had the line not been so long.

 

That's the first cruise I have been on where tipping was a headache.

[aqhacruiser]

 

Personally I just think RCCL wants to bring its ships whether in the UK, the USA or other markets in line with the industry standard today and that means adding tips/service charges directly to all passengers bills like the other cruiselines already do.

 

Ditto!!! Add the tips to the invoice and then add more or give individuals you encounter during your cruise $$ for extra special service.

Time for RCCL to step up and make this change for the better, imho.

 

When we have pre paid the tips that's exactly what we've done, just add cash to the vouchers. It just makes it easier for us I think and it's definitely fair to the crew. There are some people from all countries including the USA that do not want to tip so this will solve that issue.

I'm sure that RCCL will allow a passenger to question a tip if they feel they've received bad service so I also think the policy would be fair to passengers as well. It's such an industry standard today that's it's about time RCCL joined the others.

The incentive to provide good service does not change as the crew is never sure what they will actually receive as you can add more money or you could dispute the charge if you really received poor service at Guest Relations like passengers are allowed to do on other cruiselines. The bartenders already receive the standard tip added to drink prices so now the cabin stewards and wait staff can count on the same:)

[Times Prince]

Yes it is emotional blackmail on the part of RCCL if they paid their staff a fair wage then people would not feel that they were duty bound to pay a tip for poor service just because they know that the staff member relies on them to make their wages up to a liveable rate.

 

You Americans have your way and the British/European's have their way - no way is correct or incorrect just different ...

I am in total agreement that the better of the different ways is for the cruise lines to pay all the crew a just living wage such that the passenger is not burdened with the question of how much the person's services are worth. Princess has initiated the "hotel charge" intended to do just that, and we have always provided extra gratuity where deserved. It had become an ethical problem to us whether any individual was working to expectation and how much to compensate that person. Knowing they have a reasonable living wage which they agreed to with the cruise line means we can, without ethical dilemma, provide tips only to those who have gone above and beyond.

[kimberley]

I take great issue with some of the rude posters on this thread. In the UK we have been tipping good service for years whether we are at home in a restaurant or abroad on holiday. One poster even referred to the tightwadds in the UK. How very rude!! (I just hope he is not on my cruise and on my dinning table).

 

Yes we personally do pay our gratuties which are added to our final account and yes we do give extra for good service but I for one will not be made to feel guilty about not giving a tip to anyone who has not provided good service and yes if that includes my room attendant or waiting staff then so be it.

 

As far as I can see most of the americans are being led to pay gratuties by emotional blackmail on the part of RCCL's lack of a good wage structure. Well if you want to go down that route then good for you but I think us Brits have more common sense and can see this fact very clearly. We are obviously more discerning and astute with our money having paid a heck of a lot more and not getting any discount that you over the pond do.

Thank you so much I think you have sumed it up so well. It amazes me how people can make such judgements when they havent got sound evidence. Most make a verdict by using hearsay evidence and not first hand knowledge. After all we give our tips in an envelope which is identical to the thousand others. These are opened by the individual. These people that keep slagging the Brits off were you actually there when they opened them? No you were not. For example some people at Christmas prefer to give their gifts in the form of gift vouchers and others prefer to give cash. Both have the same value but I know which I prefer to receive. At least I then choose where I spend my cash! Kimberley

[livylotte]

We just had our first RCCL cruise and I am happy to hear they are reviewing their tip policies. On other lines, we paid the auto tip and a few times gave extra to the room steward but never the dining room staff as the service did not merit extra.

 

On RCCL we prepaid the tips. On the last day I was suprised to find vouchers and envelopes in my room. As I know the room steward and waiter have a list of who already paid, I threw them away. Then at dinner I saw people handing the waiters the vouchers. I asked the waiter if I was to give him the vouchers. He said no, it's right there in the computer that we already paid. We had terrible service the first night from someone else and great service the rest of the time from him so I handed him some extra cash.

 

Still perplexed over the vouchers, I stopped at the Guest Relations desk on the way back from dinner. I was told, "What do you mean you threw the vouchers away? Those are like cash. You HAVE to give them out. It's the only way the staff knows you have tipped them!"

 

Umm, OK. He printed out duplicates. I took them BACK to the DR and gave them to the waiter who said, " I told you I don't need these. The computer will pay me for every night I served you."

 

Then when I got back to the room I saw the room steward and had sorted through my trash and put the vouchers back on the table along with another tip envelope for himself, right there next to the dirty glass he couldn't manage to take away for 2 days. Not only was he not getting anything extra, but that greedy little act made me so mad that I would have marched down to GR and had ALL his tips removed had the line not been so long.

 

That's the first cruise I have been on where tipping was a headache.

 

Yes, the vouchers are very confusing. Different people telling us different things, it would help if RCI explained the system a little better.

 

Surely the staff get the tips regardless of whether you give them the vouchers or not. The tips are paid for so RCI has to pass them on.

[iamwhatiamnot]

Your last paragraph is spot on. They are all different ways and you should use the one that is custom where you are - and a cruise ship has it's own customs for tipping - you even quoted 'customary tipping' so by your own statement you should adhere to their customary suggestions. And I think people get confused about 'customary'. No it doesn't mean cumpulsory, but it also doesn't mean to do what you want. It actually means this:

1.according to or depending on custom; usual; habitual.2.of or established by custom rather than law.

Law. defined by long-continued practices: the customary service due from land in a manor

 

 

I don't think I was being hypocritical at all. I didn't say anything about you being British and not tipping:confused:. You said you are smarter with your money and don't see why you should have to give gratuity to make up for the servers/attendents salaries. I stand by my response to that. If you are 'taking out' the fact that you paid more on the people giving you service by saying you shouldn't have to pay gratuity (which is what the tips are) then you are indeed saving money at another persons expense. How does that have anything to do with disparaging other nationalities? Whether you hand that money to RCCL as included in the cruise or directly to your server the money still comes from YOU.:confused:

 

 

 

And I think people get confused about 'customary'. No it doesn't mean cumpulsory, but it also doesn't mean to do what you want. It actually means this:

1.according to or depending on custom; usual; habitual.2.of or established by custom rather than law.

Law. defined by long-continued practices: the customary service due from land in a manor

 

Thank you but I do not think people get confused about the meaning of customary - As you state it is not law. Customery is not compulsory and do you all follow customery practices - I think not because you all have your own opinion and choice to choose whether to or not. Even your first lady a few years ago did not observe the British custom of curtsying to our Queen (her choice). So if we brits choose to pay or not to pay the tipping system suggested by RCCL then it is our choice.

 

I made an observation that we British pay more for our cruises but made no reference to it affecting whether we gave tips or not.

 

Everyone keeps lamenting that RCCL doesn't pay a fair wage when they clearly do - they pay a low base and then it is completed with gratiuties.

 

Well they obviously do not if staff have to supplement their income with tips to make a living wage! So they (RCCL) is obviously using emotional blackmail on it customers to give tips even if service is poor.

 

I do not think any way is right or wrong we just have a different way of seeing things. I personally will never be rude to someone who admits to not paying anything because it is their right to do so. I do not think your statement in one of your post that if you cannot afford the tips then you cannot afford the cruise. Well I disagree with that statement entirely it is of individual choice and not for you or anyone else to make a statement like that.

 

Thank you to my fellow Brits and a few other posters from other countries that have agreed with me on this. I will not be dictated to by people who use the word "customary" to ensure that everyone falls in line with their way of doing or thinking.

[Palladium]

I refuse to pay a tip to the Maitre 'D. He hires and fires staff, therefore he is management. As well, he does earn a 6 FIGURE salary.

 

I have no problem tipping the cabin steward, the waiter and the busboy - they are doing the work - and we have ALWAYS given them extra. We had a waiter one time, we tipped so MUCH more, he not only thanked us that night but made sure he came to find us BEFORE we got off the ship. He deserved every penny.

 

The Maitre D - no way.

[lovemylab]

I refuse to pay a tip to the Maitre 'D. He hires and fires staff, therefore he is management. As well, he does earn a 6 FIGURE salary.

 

I have no problem tipping the cabin steward, the waiter and the busboy - they are doing the work - and we have ALWAYS given them extra. We had a waiter one time, we tipped so MUCH more, he not only thanked us that night but made sure he came to find us BEFORE we got off the ship. He deserved every penny.

 

The Maitre D - no way.

 

I am pretty sure that the Maitre 'D is not included when you prepay gratuities. It's only the head waiter, waiter and assistant waiter.

[Palladium]

We were at a table in the 1980's - and we have been on 40 of them, and the last night, this couple did not show up to dinner and did not pay the tip. I could have cried for the waiter. He had given us EXCELLENT service, he was pleasant, fun and a really nice guy.

 

The couple that stiffed him, always arrived late for dinner, including lobster night, and usually had 3 deserts. They were also picky about this and that.

 

I was so embarrased that night, but funny enough had I said to my best friend that I bet they do not leave a tip.

 

He worked hard, and he deserved that tip. It really upset me.

[spongerob]

 

Add the tips to the invoice and then add more or give individuals you encounter during your cruise $$ for extra special service.

Time for RCCL to step up and make this change for the better, imho.

Then you get the situation we saw this summer on Grand Princess, where the line of UK passengers stretched throughout the atrium for most of the first two sea days. They were removing their auto-tip charges, and some were quite hostile about it.

 

I really think what the cruise lines and travel agencies need to do is educate their UK-based passengers about how the cost of cruising is different compared to their normal package holidays, and maybe even go so far as to have them sign a document that they understand the terms and conditions before they book. The complaint I have often heard is that people from the UK had no idea that the cruise fare did not include things like dining and hotel charges, tours, and specialty restaurants.

[dbowe5]

Then you get the situation we saw this summer on Grand Princess, where the line of UK passengers stretched throughout the atrium for most of the first two sea days. They were removing their auto-tip charges, and some were quite hostile about it.

 

I really think what the cruise lines and travel agencies need to do is educate their UK-based passengers about how the cost of cruising is different compared to their normal package holidays, and maybe even go so far as to have them sign a document that they understand the terms and conditions before they book. The complaint I have often heard is that people from the UK had no idea that the cruise fare did not include things like dining and hotel charges, tours, and specialty restaurants.

 

Two things regarding this:

 

1) I agree it is different to land based holidays in that there are a lot of extra charges you do not get on a two week holiday to Spain

 

2) If I am spending over £3000 on a holiday I will a) ask a zillion questions to the TA (if I do book with one) & b) research on the internet! It's the 21st century so everyone can get on the web and research through the RCI website and sites like this one - So the ignorance plea doesn't hold water for me.

 

By the sounds of it, I'll stick to my carribean cruises and not bother with a european one!:)

[m steve]

They go to the buffet the last night to avoid tipping the dining room staff or take their bags off the ship themselves to avoid the cabin stewards on the final day. Some people are cheap. Others who do not have the same customs as we have don't even think about tipping. Some cruise lines say not tipping required or accepted and their staff are paid better than those on the mainstream cruise lines. Their staff are more experienced, come from highly developed nations and look at service as a career. Of course you will be paying $500 a night or more for the priviledge of not tipping against $150 for a similar size cabin plus $12 a night in tips.

[temple1]

They go to the buffet the last night to avoid tipping the dining room staff or take their bags off the ship themselves to avoid the cabin stewards on the final day. Some people are cheap. Others who do not have the same customs as we have don't even think about tipping. Some cruise lines say not tipping required or accepted and their staff are paid better than those on the mainstream cruise lines. Their staff are more experienced, come from highly developed nations and look at service as a career. Of course you will be paying $500 a night or more for the priviledge of not tipping against $150 for a similar size cabin plus $12 a night in tips.

 

There are those of us who go to the buffet on the last night out of convenience. We do that so we can relax and enjoy our last night on board. We also prepay our tips and I will head to the MDR to deliver the envelops and to thank our servers on the way to the WJ.

 

But for the rest - I agree. If you want all those luxuries, it is going to cost a lot more than what we are accustomed to paying on RCCL.

[neilmae_ko]

I do beleive that most Europeans do not give tips and could not understand that the people who serve them while they enjoy their cruise needs these tips to feed their family back home.

 

But it is not true that asians do not tip as much as americans do. I beleive that we asians give tips more than the americans do. Japanese are the best tourist in the world based on the survey done by Travel Magazine and asians are the best tourist if based the survey by race.

[temple1]

Japanese are the best tourist in the world based on the survey done by Travel Magazine and asians are the best tourist if based the survey by race.

 

I have no idea what the tipping habits of people from the Philippines are and I've not read the Travel Magazine survey - but because a particular nationality or race is good or bad as a tourist, does not by default make their group good tippers.

 

Of course there are the nationalities that have the double whammy - not particularly good (well liked) tourists and bad tippers.

[Aquahound]

nevermind

[happydaysmanchester]

Wow, this is turning into an international argument and as far as I can see it all boils down to the fact that RCCL dont pay their employees a decent basic salary.

 

Every country has different customs/traditions and we will NEVER all be the same...why should we..isnt that part of the appeal of travelling??

 

Now to tipping ---despite being from the UK (the worst people in the world according to some posts) I do tip - I have pre-paid my tips and will no doubt pay extra where I see fit. I also expect to be told by RCCL how the voucher thingy works...if they dont tell me then how am I supposed to understand the "correct" procedure?

 

Finally, that wonderful statement that RCCL put out has actually offended me..this is my first cruise and if I dont enjoy it, it will be my last. I dont intend to spend the week worrying about how much someone is being paid, I'm sure no-one worries about me!!

[happydaysmanchester]

Hey Michele (cruisnmama06), you reading this? Do you still have that picture of a very large group (Disney t-shirt wearers....hint, hint) waiting at the desk to remove their automatic tips?

 

 

I presume from that statement that people who have visited Disney dont like to pre-pay tips then..or did I mis understand your "hint hint" comment?

[OleSalt]

Oh, Lord, here we go again! How about tipping smokers who save deck chairs and wear flip-flops in MDR.

 

There, it's all done.

[oncruisecontrol]

Disagree.

 

wouldn't be the corporation if it weren't the culture. what restaurant have you been to lately that forbids tipping? That pays more than $10/hr to servers? It's not company by company, it's The Custom to make servers tipped employees.

 

might be state by state, but around here, a server is guaranteed to make minimum wage but has an hourly rate of, I dunno, under $3. if their tips + hourly rate don't make min, the restaurant makes up the difference. next time someone whines "I only make $2/hr" then point out to them that their employer will subsidize them until they are good enuf to make it on tips.

 

sorry, that was snarky. rough day

 

 

Inherently you are right, but...........the common practice is that if a tipped employee's hourly wage plus his tips don't add up to at least minimum wage over a 6 month period, then the employer will have to make up the difference. So, a server could go for 6 months making just under minimum wage before the employer would even budge, and even then, the server might have to 'remind' his employer, if you get my drift.

[Aquahound]

I presume from that statement that people who have visited Disney dont like to pre-pay tips then..or did I mis understand your "hint hint" comment?

 

Yea, you misunderstood. A recent post reminded me of a cruise review in which a huge group of Asian travelers clogged up the customer service desk in order to remove their automatic tips. I meant it more as a tongue in cheek comment, but after reading it and realizing it sounded a little derogatory, I deleted it. Sorry.

[temple1]

Inherently you are right, but...........the common practice is that if a tipped employee's hourly wage plus his tips don't add up to at least minimum wage over a 6 month period, then the employer will have to make up the difference. So, a server could go for 6 months making just under minimum wage before the employer would even budge, and even then, the server might have to 'remind' his employer, if you get my drift.

 

In addition - if a server's tips are below minimum wage for an extended period of time s/he will probably be out of a job soon anyway.

[*twinkle*]

I did a Transatlantic on Independence of the Seas in April, and they added $10 per person per day to your card. You had to go to the front desk if you wanted this charge removed.

 

At the end of the cruise, they gave you vouchers to hand to your waiter etc etc.