Baseball Caps in Dining Room

[foureyedbuzzard]

Is the next massive thread going to be about wearing white shoes before Memorial Day or after Labor Day?

If the poster's screenname is "serialmom" I'm definitely avoiding that cruise:eek:

[DizzyDallasDi]

A number of posters here continue to note that wearing a hat in a dining room violates the dress policy of Holland America.

 

I'm pretty sure it's some of the posters' personal dress code policies against hats, not HAL's, that's been discussed here. It's the black and white world they live in that drives their opinions. Not a nice place to live.

[Copper10-8]

Ouch!:eek:

[RevNeal]

Of course they won't meet your exacting question try reading 60, 66,67,76,103,133 and 154.

 

I've reviewed each post you've cited. NONE Of them (except for 103, and here it's not specifically the HAL dress code being referenced) argue that the dress code in any way prohibits hats and, indeed, at least one of them actually can be taken as arguing the opposite way. Instead, the arguments against hats indoors tend to be rooted in the prevailing, nominal rules of etiquette (aka "common manners"). While I don't have a "hat in this ring" on either side of the equation, I see no purpose served in making stuff up.

 

Rather than worry about hats which are not covered in the HAL policy why don't you address the issue of how some women and men dress on formal nights in outfits that would make Ronald McDonald sigh?

 

What in the world are you talking about? I've never seen anybody dressed up on Formal NIght like Ronald McDonald.

[trailercruiser]

I hate to tell you this but PC is in. You cannot say its ok for a woman to wear a hat and not a man. You cannot say its ok for a jewish person to wear a hat but not a catholic. Just like you cannot say its ok for a catolic to enter the MDR but not a jewish person. You cannot tell a woman she is not allowed in the casino but men are. Please stop with the discrimination on this board. A hat is a hat is a hat. :(

[serendipity1499]

This was in response to my post #146 in this thread. My point, which perhaps I did not make as artfully as I should, is that a whole range of headgear exists other than a ballcap that a young man dressing up could don. The Glencarry cap, the beret, and the Greek fisherman's cap (my personal favorite) come to mind. And what young man would not look splendid sporting a turban! There are lots of websites giving step-by-step directions on tying a turban, which are readily available through any search engine.

 

You must be kidding.

 

I hope that he was only kidding & his post was "tongue in cheek"..Had a good laugh over that one...:D:D

It's ludicrous to suggest that a teenage boy who is loosing his hair from Chemo, should wear a turban or a French Beret instead of a baseball cap....;)

.

However, I would bet that the young man would consider a Greek Fisherman's cap to be "cool" as my Granddaughters would say...

 

.

 

In any event whatever the young man wears, he can sit at my table any time & hope that he has a wonderful cruise with his family..

I wish him well & pray that he lives a long, happy & healthy life.

Cheers....:)Betty.

[kamper427]

I am a 45 year old mom who has always taught my boys that is is rude to wear a cap or hat indoors.

 

However, I spent the biggest part of 2009 in a pediatric oncology unit watching them pump poison into my 17 year old son. I watched him lose his hair. Then I watched as he also lost his future goals when the Naval Academy and the Marine Recruiter told him they would no longer consider him. I met dozens of kids who were fighting the same battles. I never met any kid who would feel even remotely good about wearing an old man's hat like a fedora or any of the others mentioned. Kids that age would wear a ball cap or a do-rag.

 

This thread has been about people being rude, but I can't imagine anything more rude than someone publicly humiliating someone they don't even know because of a hat.

 

Even if 98% of hat wearers don't have a medical reason, I'd hate to add one more painful thing to the 2% who do.

 

That being said, maybe I should start a thread on people who wear do-rags on HAL ships.:eek:

[Petronillus]

Has anybody seen "White Collar"? Does the hat that the Neil Caffrey character wears make him look like an old man?

 

 

 

 

[LSEA]

Has anybody seen "White Collar"? Does the hat that the Neil Caffrey character wears make him look like an old man?

 

 

This guy is way past 15 so doesn't really make a point with me. I don't get your issue. The kid is 15 years old and very ill. Why continue to press his options in hats. An ungracious demeanor is so much more unattractive than any type of hat in the dining room.

[WhansaMi]

I am a 45 year old mom who has always taught my boys that is is rude to wear a cap or hat indoors.

 

However, I spent the biggest part of 2009 in a pediatric oncology unit watching them pump poison into my 17 year old son. I watched him lose his hair. Then I watched as he also lost his future goals when the Naval Academy and the Marine Recruiter told him they would no longer consider him. I met dozens of kids who were fighting the same battles. I never met any kid who would feel even remotely good about wearing an old man's hat like a fedora or any of the others mentioned. Kids that age would wear a ball cap or a do-rag.

 

This thread has been about people being rude, but I can't imagine anything more rude than someone publicly humiliating someone they don't even know because of a hat.

 

Even if 98% of hat wearers don't have a medical reason, I'd hate to add one more painful thing to the 2% who do.

 

 

I, too, am appalled at the idea that people would be willing to humiliate 15-year-old children (or anyone else) for the sake of "propriety". To me, that is the height of valuing the superficial over substance.

 

Despite having engaged in this debates for some time now, I truly believed that, when confronted with actual people for whom hats were not simply a matter of personal preference, but were an artifact of illness, the fashion police would at least be sympathetic to them. I've not seen that on this thread, and it saddens me.

 

A teenager simply wants to fit in. A teenager with a medical condition needs, more than most, to have a way to do that. To suggest that he replace a very "typical" baseball cap with a fedora or a beret..... well, it just shows that people are much more concerned with their "viewing pleasure" than helping a child in need.

 

If those people can't even empathize with a child going through this, I guess I can't expect them to extend any level of kindness to the adult who has had chemo, or surgery, or what not.

 

I am very glad that the vast majority of people I met on my HAL cruise in 08 were not like that. I hope that the people I meet on my cruise this summer are not like that. I doubt they will be... I suspect this relatively anonymous forum allows people to behave in ways they wouldn't dare in real life.

 

I also hope that those people who are writing such insensitive things don't really believe them.... they are trying to stand in a particular "position", and painting themselves into a corner that, I hope, even they don't believe in. I've been there. It is easy to do, and, giving people the benefit of the doubt, I hope that is what is happening here.

[Hal&Rob]

"Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week."

 

Great, because shoes and socks aren't mentioned, I don't have to wear them in the dining room. . . and I can wear by baseball cap or any type of head gear - and even war paint. The options are limitless. Yippieeeeeee!!! :rolleyes:

[yotefan37]

I am a 45 year old mom who has always taught my boys that is is rude to wear a cap or hat indoors.

 

However, I spent the biggest part of 2009 in a pediatric oncology unit watching them pump poison into my 17 year old son. I watched him lose his hair. Then I watched as he also lost his future goals when the Naval Academy and the Marine Recruiter told him they would no longer consider him. I met dozens of kids who were fighting the same battles. I never met any kid who would feel even remotely good about wearing an old man's hat like a fedora or any of the others mentioned. Kids that age would wear a ball cap or a do-rag.

 

This thread has been about people being rude, but I can't imagine anything more rude than someone publicly humiliating someone they don't even know because of a hat.

 

Even if 98% of hat wearers don't have a medical reason, I'd hate to add one more painful thing to the 2% who do.

 

That being said, maybe I should start a thread on people who wear do-rags on HAL ships.:eek:

 

I, too, am appalled at the idea that people would be willing to humiliate 15-year-old children (or anyone else) for the sake of "propriety". To me, that is the height of valuing the superficial over substance.

 

Despite having engaged in this debates for some time now, I truly believed that, when confronted with actual people for whom hats were not simply a matter of personal preference, but were an artifact of illness, the fashion police would at least be sympathetic to them. I've not seen that on this thread, and it saddens me.

 

A teenager simply wants to fit in. A teenager with a medical condition needs, more than most, to have a way to do that. To suggest that he replace a very "typical" baseball cap with a fedora or a beret..... well, it just shows that people are much more concerned with their "viewing pleasure" than helping a child in need.

 

If those people can't even empathize with a child going through this, I guess I can't expect them to extend any level of kindness to the adult who has had chemo, or surgery, or what not.

 

I am very glad that the vast majority of people I met on my HAL cruise in 08 were not like that. I hope that the people I meet on my cruise this summer are not like that. I doubt they will be... I suspect this relatively anonymous forum allows people to behave in ways they wouldn't dare in real life.

 

I also hope that those people who are writing such insensitive things don't really believe them.... they are trying to stand in a particular "position", and painting themselves into a corner that, I hope, even they don't believe in. I've been there. It is easy to do, and, giving people the benefit of the doubt, I hope that is what is happening here.

 

Thank you both for saying so succinctly what I have been trying to communicate.

 

FWIW, I also believe there's a whole lot of "bark" on this board, but when faced with these actual circumstances, most posters won't "bite". At least I hope so. :rolleyes:

 

My biggest fear is that new cruisers will read these posts and think the "proper" thing to do is to publicly reprimand someone. In fact, a later poster even suggested that they should have said something to a hat wearer on their cruise - and now wish they had.

 

I think we all agree that baseball caps should not be worn in the MDR under normal circumstances. Are there any dissenting views out there in cyber-land????

 

As to the etiquette police who stand by their sense of propriety - every etiquette expert I've ever heard/read states that the only thing worse than committing a breach of etiquette is publicly pointing out that breach of etiquette.

 

If that doesn't work, then let's just let kindness prevail...

[KingsCt]

"Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week."

 

Great, because shoes and socks aren't mentioned, I don't have to wear them in the dining room. . . and I can wear by baseball cap or any type of head gear - and even war paint. The options are limitless. Yippieeeeeee!!! :rolleyes:

 

Amen!

[RevNeal]

"Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week."

 

Great, because shoes and socks aren't mentioned, I don't have to wear them in the dining room. . . and I can wear by baseball cap or any type of head gear - and even war paint. The options are limitless. Yippieeeeeee!!! :rolleyes:

 

Knock yourself out! :D We'll have fun, watching. :D ;)

[Petronillus]

I have nothing but sympathy for the 15 year old boy! Nowhere am I talking about publicly upbraiding him for wearing a ballcap where it doesn't fit in. My point is precisely that with some adult coaching he can be spared unnecessary embarrassment. The Neil Caffrey character is older than 15, but if you are at all familiar with the White Collar series, he is waaaaaaaaaay cool and his signature hat is a major part of the package.

 

If I saw the 15 year old boy wearing a dress suit with a ballcap, I would not be ungracious toward him but I would indulgently chalk his cap up to teenage rebellion. Presumably that's not what he wants to convey. In short, there are alternatives that help him be waaaaaaaaaaay cool too.

 

Enough with the flames already! In the relative quiet of this board we should be able to talk issues out in the abstract, without the histrionics.

[Limeygirl]

This was in response to my post #146 in this thread. My point, which perhaps I did not make as artfully as I should, is that a whole range of headgear exists other than a ballcap that a young man dressing up could don. The Glencarry cap, the beret, and the Greek fisherman's cap (my personal favorite) come to mind. And what young man would not look splendid sporting a turban! There are lots of websites giving step-by-step directions on tying a turban, which are readily available through any search engine.

 

You're kidding right??? The kid is 15, and suffering from a medical condition. I'm sure he would give anything to "fit in" and "look normal" (that is fit in with his teenage peers, not us "old folks" posting on the HAL board) Yes, there are types of hats that are more formal, but that would just make him stand out more. Let the poor kid wear the baseball cap and enjoy his cruise!

 

ETA: Sorry, I wrote that before I read your last reply.

[Petronillus]

You're kidding right??? The kid is 15, and suffering from a medical condition. I'm sure he would give anything to "fit in" and "look normal" (that is fit in with his teenage peers, not us "old folks" posting on the HAL board) Yes, there are types of hats that are more formal, but that would just make him stand out more. Let the poor kid wear the baseball cap and enjoy his cruise!

 

ETA: Sorry, I wrote that before I read your last reply.

 

An oncology unit, especially at a pediatric facility, becomes its own subculture. You see plenty of baseball caps -- probably 90%. Some experiment with scarves and do-rags. But I do remember one particularly stunning young man, 14 or 15 years old, (not, incidentally, a Muslim) who taught himself how to tie a splendid turban. I've cherished his memory, and have admired him for turning the burden of chemo-induced baldness into an asset, with his own flair for individuality.

 

This is absolutely my last post on this thread.

[luvs2travl]

An oncology unit, especially at a pediatric facility, becomes its own subculture. You see plenty of baseball caps -- probably 90%. Some experiment with scarves and do-rags. But I do remember one particularly stunning young man, 14 or 15 years old, (not, incidentally, a Muslim) who taught himself how to tie a splendid turban. I've cherished his memory, and have admired him for turning the burden of chemo-induced baldness into an asset, with his own flair for individuality.

 

This is absolutely my last post on this thread.

 

 

Finally!!

[madelinerose]

Has anybody seen "White Collar"? Does the hat that the Neil Caffrey character wears make him look like an old man?

 

 

He's 33 years old, not 15! :rolleyes:

[madelinerose]

My point is precisely that with some adult coaching he can be spared unnecessary embarrassment.

 

 

By suggesting a top hat, fez or turban??? :rolleyes::D:confused:

[madelinerose]

I hope that he was only kidding & his post was "tongue in cheek"..Had a good laugh over that one...:D:D

 

.

However, I would bet that the young man would consider a Greek Fisherman's cap to be "cool" as my Granddaughters would say... .Cheers....Betty.

 

 

Betty, I haven't interpreted any "tongue and cheek".

 

BTW, I say "cool" also and I'm pretty sure I'm older than your grandaughters. :D;)

[babyher]

An oncology unit, especially at a pediatric facility, becomes its own subculture. You see plenty of baseball caps -- probably 90%. Some experiment with scarves and do-rags. But I do remember one particularly stunning young man, 14 or 15 years old, (not, incidentally, a Muslim) who taught himself how to tie a splendid turban. I've cherished his memory, and have admired him for turning the burden of chemo-induced baldness into an asset, with his own flair for individuality.

 

This is absolutely my last post on this thread.

 

Talk about admiring some young men.

 

When my son was in high school one of his classmates was going through chemo and lost his hair.

 

On top of how scary this had to be , the poor kid was very self conscious.

 

About 50 guys (my son included) decided to shave their heads in solidarity so he wouldn't feel out of place. The vice principal and football coach got into the act too. A couple of fathers and myself even joined in :)

 

All 50 "Kojaks' took a group picture that they sent to the boy with the heading "we're all in this together"

 

The school did several fund raisers to help the family out also, but I thought it was really great what these guys did.

 

They could teach a lot of adults about compassion and class.

 

The best part of the story is the young man has been cancer free for over a year

[madelinerose]

On top of how scary this had to be , the poor kid was very self conscious.

 

About 50 guys (my son included) decided to shave their heads in solidarity so he wouldn't feel out of place. The vice principal and football coach got into the act too. A couple of fathers and myself even joined in :)

 

All 50 "Kojaks' took a group picture that they sent to the boy with the heading "we're all in this together"

 

The school did several fund raisers to help the family out also, but I thought it was really great what these guys did.

 

They could teach a lot of adults about compassion and class.

 

The best part of the story is the young man has been cancer free for over a year

 

 

Very cool! ;)

[mrsltg]

It's not just the older generation. I'm 49...but my parents taught me respect and manners.

 

MTE - I'm 34. My husband is 43. He wouldn't even get his food from the Lido while wearing his hat. "It's not appropriate," is what he'd say and he'd either tuck it under his arm or sit down and wait for me to get my food (ladies, first,) so he could leave the hat at the table.

 

By the way - regarding the pants around the upper thighs. This is an area where DH hopes the trend never changes. He's been a DC cop for 20 years and LOVES this trend because it makes the idiots oh so much easier to catch when they try to run from the police! He's actually told people, "You know, if you had been wearing a belt you could have outrun me!"

[foureyedbuzzard]

I would think in the interest of compassion and civility that wearing a hat for medical reasons is obviously an exception to the general custom - such as for those subject to the effects of chemo.

 

Off topic, and FWIW, I shudder every time I see this picture - I'm a little obsessed about muzzle discipline.:eek: