Ship water sodium

[DrD]

Well, I love you all dearly, but as a physician board-certified in nephrology, hypertension, and electrolytes, and an author of a chapter on the hospital management of electrolyte disorders (albeit 16 years ago now), I must say I've not seen more BS in a thread in a long time! ;)

 

these are the facts, from an expert:

 

1. water will taste salty at a concentration of 200mg-250mg/liter. so to get 1 gram of sodium, you'd have to drink 5 liters of water. there are usually 2-4 grams of sodium (or more) in a typical restaurant meal. For example, Applebee's chicken fajita rollup with french fries: 4200 mg. does the ship's water taste salty? No. So even if it had the most sodium it could have without tasting salty, you'd have to drink 21 liters, or about 5 gallons, to get the sodium in one Applebee's meal.

 

2. water intake does not "flush out" sodium. Sodium concentration is very tightly regulated by the body, if you take in too much sodium water will be pulled out of your cells and the sodium concentration in the tissues will stay about the same. You will also feel very thirsty. If you are not thirsty, your sodium concentration is normal and you don't need more water (although there are rare people with impaired thirst sensation.) Sometimes in the hospital we can give too much sodium to a debilitated patient who can't drink, then we have to give free water based on lab values. But we never use water to "flush out" sodium.

 

3. No clinical practice guidelines recommend increasing water intake to control edema. There is no reason this would work.

 

4. Gatorade does have more sodium but as has been pointed out it has alot of sugar. You can and will get plenty of sodium from food so no reason to drink gatorade. I've never recommended that to anyone.

 

It is definitively the food. Those of you who do better with bottled water are undoubtedly drinking more water, which suppresses the appetite and as you all probably know is recommended as part of any weight loss diet. So you are just eating less food. If that is what it takes to keep you from overdoing the food/sodium intake, then keep bringing bottled water.

 

but I promise you it is not the ship's water. Really.

 

Bottled water is recommended for all immunosuppressed patient due to some microsporidium outbreaks that have occurred in public water systems. Ship's water should be fine, but otherwise I'm sure a letter from your doc or coordinator will suffice.

 

sorry for the diatribe but this is my jam.

[gumbeaux58]

Boom. I just don't like the taste of the ship board water.

[Fouremco]

Thanks DrD. Nice to have a professional perspective.

[Clarea]

... Those of you who do better with bottled water are undoubtedly drinking more water, which suppresses the appetite and as you all probably know is recommended as part of any weight loss diet. So you are just eating less food. If that is what it takes to keep you from overdoing the food/sodium intake, then keep bringing bottled water. ...

Not true with us. Sadly, our appetite is not suppressed. We drink the same amount of water on the cruise, whether bottled or not.

Edited January 5, 2017 by clarea

[ONECRUISER]

Thank you DrD and Chief. I've heard lot of same info from my Fathers physician's and my brother who is Ex-Navy(Ret) and they pretty much have said they same...

[rolloman]

Theoretical possibilities versus realistic probabilities. I'll bear the former in mind but go with the latter. Thanks Chengkp75.

 

Ok.....please do that......and if you get a chance, do a search on folks hair turning green and similar mishaps......

 

I am a field engineer by trade...what can happen...will.......

Edited January 6, 2017 by rolloman

[rolloman]

Well, I love you all dearly, but as a physician board-certified in nephrology, hypertension, and electrolytes, and an author of a chapter on the hospital management of electrolyte disorders (albeit 16 years ago now), I must say I've not seen more BS in a thread in a long time! ;)

 

these are the facts, from an expert:

 

1. water will taste salty at a concentration of 200mg-250mg/liter. so to get 1 gram of sodium, you'd have to drink 5 liters of water. there are usually 2-4 grams of sodium (or more) in a typical restaurant meal. For example, Applebee's chicken fajita rollup with french fries: 4200 mg. does the ship's water taste salty? No. So even if it had the most sodium it could have without tasting salty, you'd have to drink 21 liters, or about 5 gallons, to get the sodium in one Applebee's meal.

 

2. water intake does not "flush out" sodium. Sodium concentration is very tightly regulated by the body, if you take in too much sodium water will be pulled out of your cells and the sodium concentration in the tissues will stay about the same. You will also feel very thirsty. If you are not thirsty, your sodium concentration is normal and you don't need more water (although there are rare people with impaired thirst sensation.) Sometimes in the hospital we can give too much sodium to a debilitated patient who can't drink, then we have to give free water based on lab values. But we never use water to "flush out" sodium.

 

3. No clinical practice guidelines recommend increasing water intake to control edema. There is no reason this would work.

 

4. Gatorade does have more sodium but as has been pointed out it has alot of sugar. You can and will get plenty of sodium from food so no reason to drink gatorade. I've never recommended that to anyone.

 

It is definitively the food. Those of you who do better with bottled water are undoubtedly drinking more water, which suppresses the appetite and as you all probably know is recommended as part of any weight loss diet. So you are just eating less food. If that is what it takes to keep you from overdoing the food/sodium intake, then keep bringing bottled water.

 

but I promise you it is not the ship's water. Really.

 

Bottled water is recommended for all immunosuppressed patient due to some microsporidium outbreaks that have occurred in public water systems. Ship's water should be fine, but otherwise I'm sure a letter from your doc or coordinator will suffice.

 

sorry for the diatribe but this is my jam.

 

1500mg is the recommended amount per day.....are you a chemist or a Dr.? If you are a Dr. is your specialty sodium intake?? I would think that makes you a dietician.....

 

A lot of what you said is based on assumptions....16 years ago is a long time......we know quite a bit more these days.....

 

Regardless....if you eat the soup onboard....guaranteed high amounts of sodium intake will occur...........

Edited January 6, 2017 by rolloman

[akcruz]

Not true with us. Sadly, our appetite is not suppressed. We drink the same amount of water on the cruise, whether bottled or not.

Agree, you food intake, and alcoholic for that matter, does not change from cruise to cruise. When I drink bottled water I do not swell. When I drink tap, only difference, I do. Whether it is sodium, chlorine, electrolytes, or alien beings that are different it works for me so will continue with it.

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

[xpcdoojk]

Well, I love you all dearly, but as a physician board-certified in nephrology, hypertension, and electrolytes, and an author of a chapter on the hospital management of electrolyte disorders (albeit 16 years ago now), I must say I've not seen more BS in a thread in a long time! ;)

 

these are the facts, from an expert:

 

1. water will taste salty at a concentration of 200mg-250mg/liter. so to get 1 gram of sodium, you'd have to drink 5 liters of water. there are usually 2-4 grams of sodium (or more) in a typical restaurant meal. For example, Applebee's chicken fajita rollup with french fries: 4200 mg. does the ship's water taste salty? No. So even if it had the most sodium it could have without tasting salty, you'd have to drink 21 liters, or about 5 gallons, to get the sodium in one Applebee's meal.

 

2. water intake does not "flush out" sodium. Sodium concentration is very tightly regulated by the body, if you take in too much sodium water will be pulled out of your cells and the sodium concentration in the tissues will stay about the same. You will also feel very thirsty. If you are not thirsty, your sodium concentration is normal and you don't need more water (although there are rare people with impaired thirst sensation.) Sometimes in the hospital we can give too much sodium to a debilitated patient who can't drink, then we have to give free water based on lab values. But we never use water to "flush out" sodium.

 

3. No clinical practice guidelines recommend increasing water intake to control edema. There is no reason this would work.

 

4. Gatorade does have more sodium but as has been pointed out it has alot of sugar. You can and will get plenty of sodium from food so no reason to drink gatorade. I've never recommended that to anyone.

 

It is definitively the food. Those of you who do better with bottled water are undoubtedly drinking more water, which suppresses the appetite and as you all probably know is recommended as part of any weight loss diet. So you are just eating less food. If that is what it takes to keep you from overdoing the food/sodium intake, then keep bringing bottled water.

 

but I promise you it is not the ship's water. Really.

 

Bottled water is recommended for all immunosuppressed patient due to some microsporidium outbreaks that have occurred in public water systems. Ship's water should be fine, but otherwise I'm sure a letter from your doc or coordinator will suffice.

 

sorry for the diatribe but this is my jam.

 

I am sorry, Dr. Anti Voodoo.... you just can't come here and speak logic and rationality. We all watch tv and we know that those evil cruise ships desalianate the water then just add salt back in to make our ankles swell. Plus we have done double blind tests where we bring bottled water, sodium content unknown, and drink it and we are cured.

 

Would someone please look at the first post of this thread and see how old this discussion is? Pretty please. Owww... quit sticking pins in my neck!!!!:eek::rolleyes::D

 

JC

[Agavegirl1]

As a person with familial hypertension since I was 29 years of age and weighing all of 108 pounds, I try to watch my sodium and minimize "eating out". For restaurants "fat and salt = flavor". We eat out minimally. When we vacation, both my husband and I end up retaining water and gaining weight. He also developed HBP in his thirties. We are not obese but each of us could stand to lose 20 pounds or so.

 

I'd like to thank DrD for coming in and pointing out some factual stuff. Salt, sugar, water, all affect glandular function and your BP. After 31 years of watching the effects of everything that goes in my mouth, I have learned it's restaurant food. Now, I am very aware of the saltiness of restaurant food and it often tastes "bad" to me as a result. I have been known to go out with extended family and eat one small square of pizza because between the cheese, olives, cured meats and so on, it is like eating a teaspoon of salt. Movie theater popcorn is "too salty". Italian food is often "too salty". Mexican is "too salty".

 

I won't touch Gatorade and the like because it tastes like salt water. My palate changed over time. I think for the cruise, with all the restaurant food, I will have to go low sodium just to protect myself. Eight days of eating out on my vacations usually has a negative effect on my blood pressure. If I think it is flavorless, a few grains of salt from the shaker is far better than the "seasoning" that is standard. That means simple proteins no added salt, unsalted veggies and lots of fresh fruit. Boring but manageable.

 

I am going on my first cruise and my first experience as a "captive audience". Another experience to add to my repertoire of dining effects.

[Ery]

Same here, drink ship water, swelling occurs. Drink bottled water, no swelling. Gee, guess it must all be in my head?? :eek: :D Even my DH noticed the difference with his fingers swelling with the ship water. We prefer the bottled water, whether that is the culprit or not.

 

 

I'm with you, I used to always drink ship water. I'd drink at least 120 ounces a day to prevent swelling- by the second day I could not fit in half my clothes. I go to the gym each morning on the ship. Breakfast is yogurt/fruit. Lunch a salad and then dinner. Two cruises I didn't have a single alcoholic drink to avoid the swelling. No way should a dress that was baggy at 10 am at the hotel on Friday not come close to zipping the next evening for dinner. Dr had me add potassium on a cruise it didn't do much. Last cruise he told me bottled water only. Chanted nothing else from the other cruises - weird did not swell at all. Same dress fit exactly the same way at the hotel as it did night 4 of the cruise.

 

 

 

 

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[boscobeans]

I am sorry, Dr. Anti Voodoo.... you just can't come here and speak logic and rationality. We all watch tv and we know that those evil cruise ships desalianate the water then just add salt back in to make our ankles swell. Plus we have done double blind tests where we bring bottled water, sodium content unknown, and drink it and we are cured.

 

Would someone please look at the first post of this thread and see how old this discussion is? Pretty please. Owww... quit sticking pins in my neck!!!!:eek::rolleyes::D

 

JC

 

Love it. Thanks for saying it. And thanks to the good Doctor for posting facts that will be totally ignored. or contradicted..

 

bosco

[Freehike]

Well, I love you all dearly, but as a physician board-certified in nephrology, hypertension, and electrolytes, and an author of a chapter on the hospital management of electrolyte disorders (albeit 16 years ago now), I must say I've not seen more BS in a thread in a long time! ;)

 

 

 

these are the facts, from an expert:

 

 

 

1. water will taste salty at a concentration of 200mg-250mg/liter. so to get 1 gram of sodium, you'd have to drink 5 liters of water. there are usually 2-4 grams of sodium (or more) in a typical restaurant meal. For example, Applebee's chicken fajita rollup with french fries: 4200 mg. does the ship's water taste salty? No. So even if it had the most sodium it could have without tasting salty, you'd have to drink 21 liters, or about 5 gallons, to get the sodium in one Applebee's meal.

 

 

 

2. water intake does not "flush out" sodium. Sodium concentration is very tightly regulated by the body, if you take in too much sodium water will be pulled out of your cells and the sodium concentration in the tissues will stay about the same. You will also feel very thirsty. If you are not thirsty, your sodium concentration is normal and you don't need more water (although there are rare people with impaired thirst sensation.) Sometimes in the hospital we can give too much sodium to a debilitated patient who can't drink, then we have to give free water based on lab values. But we never use water to "flush out" sodium.

 

 

 

3. No clinical practice guidelines recommend increasing water intake to control edema. There is no reason this would work.

 

 

 

4. Gatorade does have more sodium but as has been pointed out it has alot of sugar. You can and will get plenty of sodium from food so no reason to drink gatorade. I've never recommended that to anyone.

 

 

 

It is definitively the food. Those of you who do better with bottled water are undoubtedly drinking more water, which suppresses the appetite and as you all probably know is recommended as part of any weight loss diet. So you are just eating less food. If that is what it takes to keep you from overdoing the food/sodium intake, then keep bringing bottled water.

 

 

 

but I promise you it is not the ship's water. Really.

 

 

 

Bottled water is recommended for all immunosuppressed patient due to some microsporidium outbreaks that have occurred in public water systems. Ship's water should be fine, but otherwise I'm sure a letter from your doc or coordinator will suffice.

 

 

 

sorry for the diatribe but this is my jam.

 

 

 

How dare you come here and state facts.

 

[emoji6]

[DrD]

1500mg is the recommended amount per day.....are you a chemist or a Dr.? If you are a Dr. is your specialty sodium intake?? I would think that makes you a dietician.....

 

A lot of what you said is based on assumptions....16 years ago is a long time......we know quite a bit more these days.....

 

Regardless....if you eat the soup onboard....guaranteed high amounts of sodium intake will occur...........

 

Generally, to be board-certified in Nephrology, one must be a physician. If not, I've wasted quite alot of money.

 

The specialty of Nephrology encompasses electrolyte disorders and edema, although this is not my primary focus these days.

 

Not much has changed in 16 years, there are some new medications to manage hyponatremia (low serum sodium) such as tolvaptan but otherwise it's not much different when I re-certed 2 years ago.

[DrD]

Love it. Thanks for saying it. And thanks to the good Doctor for posting facts that will be totally ignored. or contradicted..

 

bosco

 

Oh we're well used to that I assure you. But you're welcome.

 

And at least ignored advice = more business.

[boscobeans]

Bring a Brita water bottle and refill it from the tap in the buffet. It will remove the salt if any. I've done this for every cruise. Put your name and room number on a piece of tape on the bottle in case you leave it somewhere. The staff will return it to your room or the lost and found.

 

Brita will NOT remove salt or sodium or actually most dissolved salts from water.

 

bosco

[rolloman]

One thing for sure which I find scary......a random internet message board poster writes a post and suddenly you have people saying thanks for the facts...really? An internet message board poster who states they are a doctor, a scientist, a this, a that and suddenly it is the gospel? Heck, anyone can google any subject and then post a seemingly intelligent response to any post..... According to a Holiday Inn commercial you can sleep there overnight and be a subject matter expert on anything the next day.

 

Back on topic.....Fact- Certified equipment works fine and does its job when properly maintained. I ask you, is it 100% always properly maintained and not subject to failure at any point in time? Is anyone repeatedly seeing CDC 100% satisfactory inspection results posted from ships? I will answer for you...and it is a no. Or please google Cruise CDC Inspections and get the answer for yourself.

 

Personally, I find one must either be extremely naïve or have a hidden agenda to rule out onboard water (in this case) as a possible cause or attribute to adverse reactions such as weight gain, swelling, HBP etc.......

 

Obviously I cruise a lot and enjoy it tremendously. There is no better vacation in my book. Over the years, I have learned what works for me, I avoid certain foods and drink bottled water. I encourage folks to find out what works best for them and adhere to the routine in order to make their cruise experience fun and fulfilling.

[dsm4life]

One thing for sure which I find scary......a random internet message board poster writes a post and suddenly you have people saying thanks for the facts...really? An internet message board poster who states they are a doctor, a scientist, a this, a that and suddenly it is the gospel? Heck, anyone can google any subject and then post a seemingly intelligent response to any post..... According to a Holiday Inn commercial you can sleep there overnight and be a subject matter expert on anything the next day.

 

Back on topic.....Fact- Certified equipment works fine and does its job when properly maintained. I ask you, is it 100% always properly maintained and not subject to failure at any point in time? Is anyone repeatedly seeing CDC 100% satisfactory inspection results posted from ships? I will answer for you...and it is a no. Or please google Cruise CDC Inspections and get the answer for yourself.

 

Personally, I find one must either be extremely naïve or have a hidden agenda to rule out onboard water (in this case) as a possible cause or attribute to adverse reactions such as weight gain, swelling, HBP etc.......

 

Obviously I cruise a lot and enjoy it tremendously. There is no better vacation in my book. Over the years, I have learned what works for me, I avoid certain foods and drink bottled water. I encourage folks to find out what works best for them and adhere to the routine in order to make their cruise experience fun and fulfilling.

 

 

Awesome post. As you can see, I am an avid cruiser. I STILL am trying to find out what works best for me. I swell like CRAZY on cruises after day 2.. I am always uncomfortable. the weight I gain is unimaginable. 25-30lbs on a week cruise... I have narrowed it down to just eating non processed foods and nothing canned. nothing cooked really... just salads. I still was bloating and ankles swelling up like crazy. I am a fitness freak. the pain on the treadmill on my ankles would be unbearable. I personally think it is a combo of salt in food, chlorine in ship tap water and other hidden factors. On my next cruise I will be drinking just bottled water and eating clean... salad -fresh fruit-yogurt etc. I wish I could get to the point where I do not bloat and swell. cruising is my only way of vacation and it just stinks b/c of how I am.

[ewenix]

One thing for sure which I find scary......a random internet message board poster writes a post and suddenly you have people saying thanks for the facts...really?

 

Umm... that's pretty much how cruise critic works. People ask questions and random internet message board posters will answer. It's up to the reader to take the responses as fact or not, but you kinda expect that going into it unless you're new to the internet. :D

[BamaGuy44]

It is definitively the food. Those of you who do better with bottled water are undoubtedly drinking more water, which suppresses the appetite and as you all probably know is recommended as part of any weight loss diet. So you are just eating less food. If that is what it takes to keep you from overdoing the food/sodium intake, then keep bringing bottled water.

 

but I promise you it is not the ship's water. Really.

 

 

So you reject the notion that even if the water doesn't have sodium, it could cause swelling/water retention in some people because of the chlorine and/or extreme softness of the water as chief suggested?

[boscobeans]

So you reject the notion that even if the water doesn't have sodium, it could cause swelling/water retention in some people because of the chlorine and/or extreme softness of the water as chief suggested?

 

I am not the doctor however claiming that pure H2O (however you manage to get it ) will cause some form of swelling or water retention because it lacks trace amounts of other minerals and salts that are found in spring or bottled water, terms that can mean almost anything as to purity or content, doesn't make sense. A typical breakfast of eggs, a meat, a veggie or V8, a small amount of fruit and dairy would probably contain more minerals and salts (including sodium) as gallons and gallons of any bottled water on the market. If our only source of minerals or salts was the water we drink we would not be long for this world.

 

Lets look at Calcium.

About 20 Mg. in a liter of water.

About 1000 in a liter of milk.

4 teaspoonfuls of milk contains the same as 1 liter of water.

 

this holds true for almost any mineral or salt added or found naturally in most bottled waters.

 

Other foods contain amounts that make milk look weak in the mineral content department.

 

Given these figures how can PURE H2O cause any kind of mineral drain on the human body if even a single meal would most probably far exceed any mineral content that could be derived from gallons of bottled water????

 

OMO

 

bosco

[JoeRum]

I work in the Water treatment business. I commissioned a new desalination plant at the US Navy base at Guantanamo Bay Cuba. I can tell you the bloating you are experiencing is not from high sodium levels from the water from a desalination water plant. A glass of water will contain no more sodium than a slice of white processed bread.

 

None of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine or Coast Guard personnel at Gitmo have this issue from the desal water.

 

The excess sodium is from the food and the environment you are in.

 

To further prove this point, think of a US Navy ship that is at sea for many months at a time. They have the same desalination plant purifying the water they drink. It comes down to the food and the sodium content.

 

JoeRum.

Edited January 27, 2017 by JoeRum

[ONECRUISER]

I work in the Water treatment business. I commissioned a new desalination plant at the US Navy base at Guantanamo Bay Cuba. I can tell you the bloating you are experiencing is not from high sodium levels from the water from a desalination water plant. A glass of water will contain no more sodium than a slice of white processed bread.

 

None of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine or Coast Guard personnel at Gitmo have this issue from the desal water.

 

The excess sodium is from the food and the environment you are in.

 

To further prove this point, think of a US Navy ship that is at sea for many months at a time. They have the same desalination plant purifying the water they drink. It comes down to the food and the sodium content.

 

JoeRum.

 

Thank you, and Thank you for your service... Michael. 26 Year Army Veteran(Ret)

Edited January 27, 2017 by ONECRUISER

[Fouremco]

I work in the Water treatment business. I commissioned a new desalination plant at the US Navy base at Guantanamo Bay Cuba. I can tell you the bloating you are experiencing is not from high sodium levels from the water from a desalination water plant. A glass of water will contain no more sodium than a slice of white processed bread.

 

None of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine or Coast Guard personnel at Gitmo have this issue from the desal water.

 

The excess sodium is from the food and the environment you are in.

 

To further prove this point, think of a US Navy ship that is at sea for many months at a time. They have the same desalination plant purifying the water they drink. It comes down to the food and the sodium content.

 

JoeRum.

👍 Could't agree more!

[rajju077]

1500mg is the recommended amount per day.....are you a chemist or a Dr.? If you are a Dr. is your specialty sodium intake?? I would think that makes you a dietician.....

 

A lot of what you said is based on assumptions....16 years ago is a long time......we know quite a bit more these days.....

 

Regardless....if you eat the soup onboard....guaranteed high amounts of sodium intake will occur...........

 

Human physiology does not change in 16 years.

 

A lot of what he said is based on evidence based medicine (research etc) not assumptions.