New passport/birth certificate policy for cruise lines?

[halos]

Have to disagree here Halos, remember J Edgar Hoover? We cant give the Government Carte Blanche either, thats not the answer either, we can keep our rights including illegal search and seizures and still have security, if they have proof to search than search but no way to blanket search's and we do have a right to privacy still, monitoring activities is one thing, searching peoples lockers and than maybe houses at will is quite another, do you want the feds going through your dirty laundry on a lark?? Maybe just because someone said you said something??

 

I just don't consider that the same as going through my child's school locker, when that is SCHOOL property and all that should be in there are school supplies.

 

Apples and oranges. :rolleyes:

[douglinc@msn.com]

In a perfect world..........that's the way it would be, this is not a perfect world.

 

Doug

[halos]

ITA!

 

OK teach...what's ITA??? :confused:

[triplelutz]

tripple,

Some are, some aren't. Not snappy, just true!

 

Doug

 

Just like in any other profession, but it's still highly offensive to make such a flip blanket statement. There are far more fabulous teachers out there than not. It's a shame that some people feel it's okay to put down so many great people.

[L2J]

sure you did...but did they mold you, or did you have your own opinions????? :D You don't need to answer that. ;)

and as far as parenting...the swim babies thread just makes my belief in parents being responsible for all the world's ills (figuratively and literally in that case) credible...it all starts with a poopie diaper ;)

 

No I was way beyond "molding" by that stage. My Stepfather was raised VERY old school, needless to say I was too LOL. I was also very rebellious (and that is an understatement ;)) and was shipped of to military school with the Finklestien s**t kid when I was 15 and to be quite honest, that was the age when the molding process really started.

 

I couldn't agree more LOL.

 

Who knows maybe someday I'd like to do a landbased vacation where you have to have one there also..

 

 

I'd venture a guess that there aren't too many places you can't do a land vacation without one.

[triplelutz]

OK teach...what's ITA??? :confused:

 

I totally agree!!! ;)

 

Okay, folks, I've got to go change the proverbial poopy diaper and go run some errands. So get along while I'm gone!!:)

[MamaParrotHead]

in response to the tenure comment and the whole crappy comments about teachers in general. I found my facts on Google, National Center for Educational Statistics and the US Dept. of Labor Statistics.

 

in 2002, there were 48 million students enrolled in public schools and 3.8 million teachers (preschool-high school). average salary being $39K-$44K.

 

post-secondary students were at 15 million, teachers at 1.6 million (247,000 of those being TA's and "vocational instructors", i.e., technical/trade instructors that don't need to be certified), average salary being $49K. and of those instructors, only 179,000 were tenured professors (and all the articles I read are stating that most universities and colleges are following the trend to grant less and less tenure). so, doing the math (which may or may not be faulty, check for yourself), that leaves approximately 1.2 million post-secondary professors that are vulnerable to being canned if the need or opportunity arises.

 

In a nutshell, there's a ton of teachers that make squat and are open to being fired for misconduct or poor job performance like the rest of us. And unless you've met every single one of them personally and have seen their evaluation or performance reports, it's really ignorant to make prejudiced, blanket statements. In addition, if you personally have had or your kids have had, one of the "whack jobs" as teachers and you haven't done anything to hold that teacher accountable, you don't have a right to complain either. And I, for one, can think of many more teachers that positively influenced me and touched my life than those who stunk. and even if they did stink, it didn't mentally scar me or anything, I got by, got from the class what I could and moved on with my life.

 

IMO, people that blame teachers for "warping" their kids are like those parents that blame music and musicians for "making" their children kill someone. :confused: your kids have brains, if they choose not to use them, there's some faulty wiring somewhere else down the line.

[triplelutz]

Quick post before I run -

 

MamaParrotHead - I love you!!! :)

[douglinc@msn.com]

Regardless of all the "studies" in the world, there are some kids that will be influenced by their college proffs. (after all, isn't that what their job is?) If everyone will pay attention, my problem is with the "wacky" idiot teachers that preach that 9-11 happened because for some goofy reason.......we deserved it. Call our govt. terrorist because we eliminated a tyrant who has slaughtered thousands of his own innocent people etc. Not with the good hard working honest teachers that just want to teach!

I would think that the "good" teachers would have a problem with this sort of thing also & try to help weed out the bad ones. Instead we are criticised for bringing it up..........If you are not one of the "wacky" ones, you should not be offended.........makes you wonder........

 

Doug

[Ehpride]

Tef..that's a pretty strong statement.

My feeling is, like all Americans (God bless us) we have the rights to out opinions, all of us, including teachers.

If college age students are still that moldable, that they can be persuaded to believe anything 'wacky' then the problem doesn't lie with the professor, it lies with the student.

My daughter has had great proffessors (thus far) but she did have some wacky teachers before she got to college. Fortunately, she listened to what they said, but took their comments and beliefs with a grain of salt and stuck to her own guns and held fast in her beliefs.

If she could do this as a teenager in high school...a college age student should be able to do the same. Don't blame teachers for a job that parents should be doing. The OP from CA may have not gotten his ideas from school...he may have gotten them on his own and it's kind of judgmental to assume otherwise.

 

I quite agree!! Do you pick some things up from profs? Sure...but if you base your entire belief system on something your professor said, then you probably aren't mature enough for college. Professors aren't Gods but they aren't worthless either. A lot of mine not only teach but ALSO work in other ways by consulting with companies, doing research, etc...

[Ehpride]

IMO, people that blame teachers for "warping" their kids are like those parents that blame music and musicians for "making" their children kill someone. :confused: your kids have brains, if they choose not to use them, there's some faulty wiring somewhere else down the line.

 

Are you sure you're not in my head?? That's been my belief since Columbine!

[MamaParrotHead]

doug--i wasn't attacking you personally with any of my posts. I agree, the idiot misinforming the kids about 9-11 is indeed an idiot, and you need to either work to bring that to the attention to the powers that be, or you're just as bad as they are for not noticing or ignoring the situation. if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. i did, however, take to heart the "where do they get these whack jobs" comment...seemed too general to me, along with tef's prejudicial comment.

 

and those weren't "studies" I quoted...they were "statistics"...not open to interpretation, just a report of the facts. and IMHO, kids are there to LEARN from their profs, NOT be "influenced" by them. that's a whole other ballgame, IMO, and not a good thing. by all means, get the wacko's canned, but exactly whose responsiblity is it to make them accountable? administrators? parents? kids? people who have heard unnerving tales about what goes on in class? classic case of everyone pointing the finger and nothing being done, yet everyone thinks they have the right to continue to complain about it and in the process, condemn and ridicule others who work their @sses off to better society.

[Earthworm Jim]

not enough (security measures) for me, that's for sure.

I can remember 9/11 (like everyone else) and above all else, the thing I wanted most was to feel secure again.

I don't think I'll ever feel as secure as I did pre 9/11.

 

 

I think we can and do go to far with security measures, post 9/11. Many of these measures are unneccessary and completely worthless, but they all cost money. And every wasted dollar on security measures as a result on the 9/11 attacks makes those attacks all the more effective at damaging our country's economy. In effect we are just playing into their hands using some of these measures.

 

I'm all for things like passports and increased border and immigration security, but it's the dumb little things I think they should drop.

 

If you go into a concert or minor league hockey game at my local arena, they screen you with hand held medal detectors going in. Why? A terrorist could kill as many people at the local supermarket or mall and there is no screening there.

 

Likewise, around the State Capitol Building here in Albany, New York, they now have a bunch of state troopers on guard and all kinds of barricades to prevent potential car or truck bombs from getting close. They always had security and medal detectors to enter, but now they have a lot more exterior security.

 

What makes them think the average terrorist gives a hoot about the New York State Capital building? They could just drive their truck bomb to the office building next door and blow that up instead and probably kill more people that way.

 

You can't have tight security around every public place and building, so why waste the money having tight security around a few of them? A terrorist would just pick a different more vulnerable target, and have thousands of them to choose from.

[margaritawoman]

I think everyone traveling out of the US and returning should be required to have a passport. I really don't think it will make much difference to cruising. People who enjoy cruising will still do so. We can not do a land vacation for the same cost, we always come out cheaper doing a cruise. I have been told that minor children traveling with parents would not need a passport to cruise. I don't know if this is true?

[MamaParrotHead]

I'm inclined to say, just from your description of the state of things for you locally, that maybe they could possibly be extra precautions for the patrons/citizens protection. you're right, no one probably gives a crap about blowing up the capital, but the metal detectors could keep anyone armed with even a switchblade from entering. i'm thinking specifically of the minor league hockey games...kids/teens that hang out there may think it's a place to settle disagreements started elsewhere. or possibly for fans that are a little too zealous? personally, I don't complain with any extra measures that make me safer anywhere. same way with concerts...lots of younger people (some with strange ideas or agendas and visions of grandeur), possible that drugs and/or alcohol is involved. why not make sure no one is carrying weapons to escalate a situation?

 

as for wasting budget dollars and effecting our economy...I feel at this point it's like sticking one's finger in the dam...another one will pop up somewhere for something. if it's not one thing, it's another. our economy is just screwed until everyone starts working on the same page and with the same priorities. holding my breath on that one, too.:(

[douglinc@msn.com]

MamaParrotHead,

I didn't take it as a personal attack on me. Nor was I making an attack on you or anyone else here. I just have always found it strange that when someone brings up these "whackos", seems like teachers come out of the woodwork defending them and being offended that someone would bring up anything about such an honorable proffession.

ALL my statements are aimed directly at these idiots, not the good, honest, and caring teachers. So none of these people should be offended, but seems as though they always are.

Seems as though there are so many people that say....it's their constitutional right to be able to say these things. I disagree, I don't think anyone has a constitutional right to preach hate any more than they have the right to yell "fire" in a crowded building.

Common sense has gone right out the window!

So if you are one of the great teachers of this nation, you should feel complimented by my remarks. If you are one of the "whackos".....I hope you are really offended!

 

Doug

[MamaParrotHead]

I'm the daughter of a life long, spectacular, dedicated teacher who struggles to pay her bills, cares more than she need to for her students, goes above and beyond for students and fellow teachers and is going to have to work past 70 years of age due to the dispicable retirement guidelines in our public school system. among all of that, I think she atleast deserves some respect, not only personally, but for her choice of professions.

 

I've also had many good teachers whose faces pop through my mind whenever I hear/see/perceive anything negative regarding the profession. I wonder if they would have even entered teaching at the time they did if the stereotypes and prejudices that are abundant today were when they had to make their career path. The world may lose out on many good people who WANT to help OUR kids and better our society, even though the pay isn't great and the hours are long, simply because the lack of respect for the profession.

[halos]

Regardless of all the "studies" in the world, there are some kids that will be influenced by their college proffs. (after all, isn't that what their job is?) If everyone will pay attention, my problem is with the "wacky" idiot teachers that preach that 9-11 happened because for some goofy reason.......we deserved it. Call our govt. terrorist because we eliminated a tyrant who has slaughtered thousands of his own innocent people etc. Not with the good hard working honest teachers that just want to teach!

Doug

 

That, if infact it did occur, is horrible. My point is only that, even a 15 year old with average self assurance and average intelligence who hears that wouldn't be swayed into believing it.

I find most older teenagers and young adults to be really, stuck hard in their beliefs, very extreme and very intense and highly opinionated and not easily swayed in their ideas if what is right or wrong. I love conversing with teenagers. I think they're awesome and smart as hell....sometimes a little too self-righteous, but they usually mellow with age. I don't find kids to be all that stupid...messed up, sometimes yeah...but not stupid.

[booboo4031]

Fortunately in this country we are all entitled to our opinion and I'd just like to comment about Jim's remarks about security in his local area. If you travel anywhere overseas (and not in war torn countries) those types of security measures have been in place for years. You're right... if someone wants to do something badly enough... they will.... but security keeps the less fanatical ones honest. After 9/11 the NFL went to mandatory metal detectors and pat downs at all NFL games and the lines at most stadiums were awful. What I found interesting is that I've been a Patriots season ticket holder for years and at that stadium they have done pat downs for years prior to 9/11 before terrorist and homeland security became an everyday word in our vocabulary. The 'little' things as you call them that should be discontinued when you lump them all together suddenly become 'big' things .... and in light of the tragedy of 9/11 the little things are more important than ever. A few weeks post 9/11, I traveled to Europe and there was an elderly gentleman sitting next to me and he was commenting on Americans complaining about being at the airports 2 hours ahead of flights etc... and his remark to that was.... in Europe those are the rules and if you are not there you don't board the flight. Americans live a very fast paced life and cut there time as close as possible which is very true.... This guy made me think .... what's more important whatever errands needed to be run before leaving.... or making sure a flight is secure. I'll opt for the second. So if they choose to put armed guards at the airports, state capitals, or anywhere else.... they may just deter the little things that hopefully will never lead to another horrific day like 9/11. <IMHO>

[halos]

booboo....way to go! Well said, even if you are a Pats fan ;)

[neverenufcruising]

I wonder if they would have even entered teaching at the time they did if the stereotypes and prejudices that are abundant today were when they had to make their career path. The world may lose out on many good people who WANT to help OUR kids and better our society, even though the pay isn't great and the hours are long, simply because the lack of respect for the profession.

 

I would think a healthier attitude would be knowing these stereotypes and prejudices exist, but pursuing the profession anyway to do what they can to change people's perceptions. Failing to go into a profession for which you have a calling because of what someone else thinks about the profession doesn't really say a lot about someone's strength of character. A person who's really driven to make a difference will go in spite of the obstacles.

[Ericknow32]

I am so sorry for starting this. It was just a lark. I was not being serious and this whole thing spun way out of control.

 

Once again I am sorry.

 

By the way I can come to my own realizations so stop blaming teachers.

 

[halos]

I am so sorry for starting this. It was just a lark. I was not being serious and this whole thing spun way out of control.

 

Once again I am sorry.

 

By the way I can come to my own realizations.

 

 

LOL!!

Eric...it doesn't take much to get things stirred up here!!!!

If it really bothered any of us, we wouldn't be sitting here responding, so....we're all a little nuts :D

[BND]

Back on subject. I just went and reapplied for my passport today. My old one had expired 18 years ago. Anyway, no big deal. Not much more info taken than for your drivers' license. It's a great way to identify those that are traveling. BTW, faking passports is a lot more difficult than you think. It's not as simple as counterfeiting money. You cant' make a passport on your home computer in your basement. There are quite a few security items built into them. Gone are the days that when you entered or left a foreign country or the US that all they did is look at them and stamp them. A great many countries use computers to ensure they are legitimate passports. The reality is, the terrorists of 9/11 had entered the US legally, and a few had overstayed their visas, but they had what were issued as legitimate passports and visas. Passports have always been required to travel to foreign countries, so what's the big deal if they're needed for cruising, (which does take you off of American soil by the way). In the long run, $55 (mine was $100 because I had my photo taken at the post office for $15 and they charge $30 processing fee) is not much to spend on something that is good for 10 years. Hmm, that's $5.50/year or in my case, $10/yr. So, for a family of four, it's $22/year. Just skip the drink of the day once and you've covered the cost of your passport for that year.;)

[douglinc@msn.com]

That, if infact it did occur, is horrible. My point is only that, even a 15 year old with average self assurance and average intelligence who hears that wouldn't be swayed into believing it.

I find most older teenagers and young adults to be really, stuck hard in their beliefs, very extreme and very intense and highly opinionated and not easily swayed in their ideas if what is right or wrong. I love conversing with teenagers. I think they're awesome and smart as hell....sometimes a little too self-righteous, but they usually mellow with age. I don't find kids to be all that stupid...messed up, sometimes yeah...but not stupid.

 

Halos,

This did in fact occur. The Guy's name is Ward Churchill. He should be fired!

 

Doug