HAL strategy wrong? Go upmarket, better than going down market?

[dan1618]

I am not sure if you are referring to me...was I condescending? I really don't know??

 

Oh my, no! I was definitely NOT referring to you! I was agreeing with you. :) I was referring to the same people who mistook arrogant for "classy". Those are the condescending ones, not you.

 

Unless of course, we want to be condescending toward those who are condescending. :D

[hypercafe]

These dress code talks are very common here, I guess because HAL puts a policy in place to make the old guard happy but doesn't enforce it to make the resort casual group happy. I for one have no clue why others would care how I dress and I guess I feel flattered that my actions have such a effect on them. I also wonder how a cruise line that can not make you cabin AC or toilet work cares if you ware a tie to dinner?

Edited April 28, 2013 by hypercafe

[Ians Grandma]

Oh my, no! I was definitely NOT referring to you! I was agreeing with you. :) I was referring to the same people who mistook arrogant for "classy". Those are the condescending ones, not you.

 

Unless of course, we want to be condescending toward those who are condescending. :D

Oh, good! I was hoping that it wasn't another thing that I needed to add to my self-improvement list, it's already pretty long;) Thank you for answering my question though.

[iancal]

I suspect that a number of folks judge whether a person is what they refer to as 'classy' by how they dress. This is about the last measure that I would use.

[Rotterdam]

Why is it that people cannot have respect for others.....if there is a dress code adhere to it - no one mentioned how you do it, how much you spend on doing it or if others like how you do it ,......just do it.

 

I am tired of going into restaurants, hotels & yes cruises & have people saying -I paid for my vacation & I'll dress as I like.....

 

Well there are people that are celebrating special occasions, like dressing up & feel they should respect the dress code. If you do not getting dressed up stay on NCL, Carnival or go with OCEANIA.

 

If anything its so easy today - women can buy black pants & a blouse & men wear dark suits at Target or Saks- no gowns & tuxes needed.....things change & I respect that - but I don't want to be seated w/ people in jeans & track suits while I'm "dining.

 

HAL has really hit the skids - all around - but some of the passengers really dumb down the product, expect the best of everything & pay less than $100 a day per person for a cabin & food & then have the gall to bring liquor and soda onboard...its a business..... and you are with other people - have respect.

 

Also as regards to wearing a speedo....I for one wore one growing up - in swim meets for school, for charity events to earn money for the needy and all over the world and never had a problem. I've also never said anything to the grossly obese people by pools as the stuff themselves w/ food & drink while they wear yards & yards of fabic.

 

Also I see there are people on these boards that require special needs cabins & services...NEED is the key word...so why would they book a guaranty cabin???? Obviously the need is in the yeye of the beholder!!!

 

This topic is now at the level of ignorance of why English isn't spoken all over the world.....HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS!

Edited April 29, 2013 by Rotterdam

[sail7seas]

These dress code talks are very common here, I guess because HAL puts a policy in place to make the old guard happy but doesn't enforce it to make the resort casual group happy. I for one have no clue why others would care how I dress and I guess I feel flattered that my actions have such a effect on them. I also wonder how a cruise line that can not make you cabin AC or toilet work cares if you ware a tie to dinner?

 

 

My underline.

 

I don't know if I'm 'old guard' or resort casual group but I do know I always push back when people generalize and group all into one neat little bundle.

 

If having sailed HAL 20+ years makes me old guard, it does not necessarily make me give a whoot or holler what you wear. I don't care what anyone wears to dinner but for me and DH and with whomever we may be dining. We do not dine at 'assigned' tables so we know our dinner companions.

 

Wear what you want. DH and I will always be dressed according to HAL's code. A jacket and tie for the gentleman and something comparable in 'dressiness' for the ladies on formal night. We wear 'resort casual' on the remaining evenings.

We stopped bringing the tuxedo and the gowns several years ago. Done, finished, over. Not the least interested in what you wear. ;)

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2013 by sail7seas

[Wakepatrol]

Why is it that people cannot have respect for others.....if there is a dress code adhere to it - no one mentioned how you do it, how much you spend on doing it or if others like how you do it ,......just do it.

 

I am tired of going into restaurants, hotels & yes cruises & have people saying -I paid for my vacation & I'll dress as I like.....

 

Well there are people that are celebrating special occasions, like dressing up & feel they should respect the dress code. If you do not getting dressed up stay on NCL, Carnival or go with OCEANIA.

 

If anything its so easy today - women can buy black pants & a blouse & men wear dark suits at Target or Saks- no gowns & tuxes needed.....things change & I respect that - but I don't want to be seated w/ people in jeans & track suits while I'm "dining.

 

HAL has really hit the skids - all around - but some of the passengers really dumb down the product, expect the best of everything & pay less than $100 a day per person for a cabin & food & then have the gall to bring liquor and soda onboard...its a business..... and you are with other people - have respect.

 

Also as regards to wearing a speedo....I for one wore one growing up - in swim meets for school, for charity events to earn money for the needy and all over the world and never had a problem. I've also never said anything to the grossly obese people by pools as the stuff themselves w/ food & drink while they wear yards & yards of fabic.

 

Also I see there are people on these boards that require special needs cabins & services...NEED is the key word...so why would they book a guaranty cabin???? Obviously the need is in the yeye of the beholder!!!

 

This topic is now at the level of ignorance of why English isn't spoken all over the world.....HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS!

 

 

I can hear a pin drop:)

[Wakepatrol]

Does anyone on this board think

 

track suits, cargo shorts,overalls,spandex leotards, flip flops with white socks,wife beaters,robes from your cabin:eek: is

 

"Resort Casual"

 

"Country Club Casual"

 

"What they wear on Seabourn or Oceania"

Edited April 29, 2013 by Wakepatrol

[swedish weave]

Why is it that people cannot have respect for others.....if there is a dress code adhere to it - no one mentioned how you do it, how much you spend on doing it or if others like how you do it ,......just do it.

 

I am tired of going into restaurants, hotels & yes cruises & have people saying -I paid for my vacation & I'll dress as I like.....

 

Well there are people that are celebrating special occasions, like dressing up & feel they should respect the dress code. If you do not getting dressed up stay on NCL, Carnival or go with OCEANIA.

 

If anything its so easy today - women can buy black pants & a blouse & men wear dark suits at Target or Saks- no gowns & tuxes needed.....things change & I respect that - but I don't want to be seated w/ people in jeans & track suits while I'm "dining.

 

HAL has really hit the skids - all around - but some of the passengers really dumb down the product, expect the best of everything & pay less than $100 a day per person for a cabin & food & then have the gall to bring liquor and soda onboard...its a business..... and you are with other people - have respect.

 

Also as regards to wearing a speedo....I for one wore one growing up - in swim meets for school, for charity events to earn money for the needy and all over the world and never had a problem. I've also never said anything to the grossly obese people by pools as the stuff themselves w/ food & drink while they wear yards & yards of fabic.

 

Also I see there are people on these boards that require special needs cabins & services...NEED is the key word...so why would they book a guaranty cabin???? Obviously the need is in the yeye of the beholder!!!

 

This topic is now at the level of ignorance of why English isn't spoken all over the world.....HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS!

 

Respect can be earned. Respect is not granted because of the price tag on your attire.

 

When the published dress code is not in actual practice on the ships, it doesn't make sense to rant and call names of those who wear what the cruise line personnel allow.

 

Suggesting that people should go to another cruise line because they choose to wear clothing that is allowed is an inane comment.

 

Having respect for others means treating them as equals instead of name calling and attempting to disparage them because of your beliefs.

Edited April 29, 2013 by swedish weave

[startwin]

Wakepatrol, meet Rotterdam. You two should get on well together.

[swedish weave]

Does anyone on this board think

 

track suits, cargo shorts,overalls,spandex leotards, flip flops with white socks,wife beaters,robes from your cabin:eek: is

 

"Resort Casual"

 

"Country Club Casual"

 

"What they wear on Seabourn or Oceania"

 

Whatever attire the cruise line personnel consider acceptable is acceptable.. They determine what they will let people wear, and it they didn't allow it, YOU WOULD NOT SEE IT !!!!;)

[OCruisers]

Can't understand why HAL doesn't embrace its image of being for older cruisers rather than fight it? :confused:

 

The "Baby Boomers" are already or fast approaching 65. As time goes by, what we want from a cruise line changes....

 

LuLu

~~~~

[Wakepatrol]

Whatever attire the cruise line personnel consider acceptable is acceptable.. They determine what they will let people wear, and it they didn't allow it, YOU WOULD NOT SEE IT !!!!;)

 

 

I'll either get HAL to put pictures of this attire in their brochures or bleach my eyes out.

 

 

oh yea...You didn't answer the question...is this attire resort casual or country club?

Edited April 29, 2013 by Wakepatrol

[Jimbo59]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I resurrected the thread because HAL is a line many of us on this board enjoy cruising and after having discussions with many people on my last cruise about cost cutting measures and the noticeable slide in standards, I did some searching yesterday and came across this thread. While more than two years old, I think resurrecting it again allows us to reflect on what many have been discussing already as well as a chance to comment on where things stand now.

 

On the last cruise I took, I met more than one person (about five people) who had originally purchased an interior cabin- I'd say 3/5 of these were upgraded to Ocean View. What was also striking was that this group of people, without exception, did not purchase shore excursions (or purchased only the transfers into town), did not purchase drinks from the bar, and did not purchase treatments from the spa. And in one case, made grudging comments about the hotel service charge.

 

One of our dining companions noticed the same trend, and he commented on how the inside cabins are often sold at cost. And noticing that this group of passengers were not buying anything on board, I realized that HAL was probably taking a bath on them. So it begs the question, if the company is filling the ships with increasing numbers of these passengers, how can the company make enough money to continue to provide a consistent standard of service?

 

I'm not attempting to begrudge anyone their desire to vacation on a strict budget- I understand that. But what I found ironic in one case of the group of five that I referred to was that the passenger expressed disappointment that organic jams and jellies were not available on the ship. Made me wonder, how people expect to have their cake and eat it too (cheap cruise with expensive amenities)? I guess if I had paid cost for a cabin and not purchased anything on the ship, I wouldn't expect organic jams/jellies.

 

So it would seem that many people want a high level of quality but not everyone is willing to pay for it. It would seem to me that at some point HAL needs to decide how they are going to distinguish themselves in the marketplace, in order to ensure healthy profits and margins with which to provide a good standard of excellence.

 

Why should you care about what other people spend on-board? And what do you mean that HAL sells cabins at "cost?" Did you follow people around to check out how much they were spending?

[Wakepatrol]

Whatever attire the cruise line personnel consider acceptable is acceptable.. They determine what they will let people wear, and it they didn't allow it, YOU WOULD NOT SEE IT !!!!;)

 

 

Perhaps you're right. They have to show videos of "How To Wash Your Hands" on your cabin television, so look at who they're working with:eek:

[dan1618]

There really seem to be two issues here. The dress code is one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the dress code.

 

The other issue -- and the one that is rubbing some people the wrong way -- are the rants by a select few who seem to have a serious case of superiority complex. Listening to Rotterdam's ramblings, you can help but sense his frustration with the fact that HAL no longer prices itself so that only those he deems of sufficiently high estate can ever afford to cruise. For him, and a select few others, there seems to be a significant ego boost that comes from having what other people can't have -- and it annoys them when "commoners" are able to share in some of the amenities that used to make them feel exclusive.

 

A truly dignified person doesn't have to make others feel inferior to enjoy themselves. Decent people enjoy it when others get to experience amazing things -- rather than needing the exclusivity so that they feel important.

 

I sincerely hope they take their fragile egos to another cruise line. I would rather cruise with nice people -- of any social class -- that boorish people -- of any social class.

[GeriatricNurse]

There really seem to be two issues here. The dress code is one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the dress code.

 

The other issue -- and the one that is rubbing some people the wrong way -- are the rants by a select few who seem to have a serious case of superiority complex. Listening to Rotterdam's ramblings, you can help but sense his frustration with the fact that HAL no longer prices itself so that only those he deems of sufficiently high estate can ever afford to cruise. For him, and a select few others, there seems to be a significant ego boost that comes from having what other people can't have -- and it annoys them when "commoners" are able to share in some of the amenities that used to make them feel exclusive.

 

A truly dignified person doesn't have to make others feel inferior to enjoy themselves. Decent people enjoy it when others get to experience amazing things -- rather than needing the exclusivity so that they feel important.

 

I sincerely hope they take their fragile egos to another cruise line. I would rather cruise with nice people -- of any social class -- that boorish people -- of any social class.

 

An excellent post! I agree with everything stated 100%! :)

[Seago2]

There really seem to be two issues here. The dress code is one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the dress code.

 

The other issue -- and the one that is rubbing some people the wrong way -- are the rants by a select few who seem to have a serious case of superiority complex. Listening to Rotterdam's ramblings, you can help but sense his frustration with the fact that HAL no longer prices itself so that only those he deems of sufficiently high estate can ever afford to cruise. For him, and a select few others, there seems to be a significant ego boost that comes from having what other people can't have -- and it annoys them when "commoners" are able to share in some of the amenities that used to make them feel exclusive.

 

A truly dignified person doesn't have to make others feel inferior to enjoy themselves. Decent people enjoy it when others get to experience amazing things -- rather than needing the exclusivity so that they feel important.

 

I sincerely hope they take their fragile egos to another cruise line. I would rather cruise with nice people -- of any social class -- that boorish people -- of any social class.

 

This.^^^^^^^

 

There is an obligation of charity that goes along with noblesse oblige. The thought that one takes a holiday from people of lower social "class" is abhorrent. Wear what you want. Conform to the dress code/suggestions, which are loosely worded to the point of frustration for many, but leave others alone. Don't worry about pricing allowing less savory elements of society on board. Look in the mirror. And feel free to head over to the Cunard board, where you'll feel most welcome if you want to engage in schadenfreude via khakis.

[Twinkstarr]

There really seem to be two issues here. The dress code is one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the dress code.

 

The other issue -- and the one that is rubbing some people the wrong way -- are the rants by a select few who seem to have a serious case of superiority complex. Listening to Rotterdam's ramblings, you can help but sense his frustration with the fact that HAL no longer prices itself so that only those he deems of sufficiently high estate can ever afford to cruise. For him, and a select few others, there seems to be a significant ego boost that comes from having what other people can't have -- and it annoys them when "commoners" are able to share in some of the amenities that used to make them feel exclusive.

 

A truly dignified person doesn't have to make others feel inferior to enjoy themselves. Decent people enjoy it when others get to experience amazing things -- rather than needing the exclusivity so that they feel important.

 

I sincerely hope they take their fragile egos to another cruise line. I would rather cruise with nice people -- of any social class -- that boorish people -- of any social class.

 

Thank you.

 

And yes I am one of those people, who wait until there is a sale and book those inside cabins(since I sail solo, DH & kids not really interested in cruises).

 

To be honest I look at HAL, post-final payment there are some good deals to be had, even for a solo. Then I get on this board :eek: and then go look at what Princess/NCL has available for my timeframe.

[kazu]

Why is it that people cannot have respect for others.....if there is a dress code adhere to it - no one mentioned how you do it, how much you spend on doing it or if others like how you do it ,......just do it.

 

I am tired of going into restaurants, hotels & yes cruises & have people saying -I paid for my vacation & I'll dress as I like.....

 

Well there are people that are celebrating special occasions, like dressing up & feel they should respect the dress code. If you do not getting dressed up stay on NCL, Carnival or go with OCEANIA.

 

If anything its so easy today - women can buy black pants & a blouse & men wear dark suits at Target or Saks- no gowns & tuxes needed.....things change & I respect that - but I don't want to be seated w/ people in jeans & track suits while I'm "dining.

 

HAL has really hit the skids - all around - but some of the passengers really dumb down the product, expect the best of everything & pay less than $100 a day per person for a cabin & food & then have the gall to bring liquor and soda onboard...its a business..... and you are with other people - have respect.

 

Also as regards to wearing a speedo....I for one wore one growing up - in swim meets for school, for charity events to earn money for the needy and all over the world and never had a problem. I've also never said anything to the grossly obese people by pools as the stuff themselves w/ food & drink while they wear yards & yards of fabic.

 

Also I see there are people on these boards that require special needs cabins & services...NEED is the key word...so why would they book a guaranty cabin???? Obviously the need is in the yeye of the beholder!!!

 

This topic is now at the level of ignorance of why English isn't spoken all over the world.....HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS!

 

The bolding is mine - WOW - you might want to follow your own advice.

 

[swedish weave]

I'll either get HAL to put pictures of this attire in their brochures or bleach my eyes out.

 

 

oh yea...You didn't answer the question...is this attire resort casual or country club?

 

All of the above !!:rolleyes:

[swedish weave]

There really seem to be two issues here. The dress code is one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the dress code.

 

The other issue -- and the one that is rubbing some people the wrong way -- are the rants by a select few who seem to have a serious case of superiority complex. Listening to Rotterdam's ramblings, you can help but sense his frustration with the fact that HAL no longer prices itself so that only those he deems of sufficiently high estate can ever afford to cruise. For him, and a select few others, there seems to be a significant ego boost that comes from having what other people can't have -- and it annoys them when "commoners" are able to share in some of the amenities that used to make them feel exclusive.

 

A truly dignified person doesn't have to make others feel inferior to enjoy themselves. Decent people enjoy it when others get to experience amazing things -- rather than needing the exclusivity so that they feel important.

 

I sincerely hope they take their fragile egos to another cruise line. I would rather cruise with nice people -- of any social class -- that boorish people -- of any social class.

 

Dan !! I think you hit a grand slam with this one ! Good job !

[Wakepatrol]

What we see in other people... is our mirror;)

 

Wakepatrol, meet Rotterdam. You two should get on well together.

 

:D Good answer. There are some posters who contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation on this forum, or any useful suggestions whatsoever. I think they get their jollies by sitting there and waiting to take potshots and sarcastic comments to other posters. But who are we to spoil their fun:rolleyes:

Edited April 29, 2013 by Wakepatrol

[kangforpres]

If you book a Neptune Suite for a 7 day cruise for $1999 and they are selling interiors on the same cruise for $499 you have to come to the realization that everyone has a different budget when they cruise. If you are not comfortable cruising with others who only paid 25% of what you did to sit at the same table as you for dinner in the MDR then by all means go to the Oceania's of the Cruise Industry where everyone pays more or less the same price for the same experience.

 

-Paul

[RD64]

I think part of the problem is that Holland America has a bit of an identity crisis

 

According to the following article:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5327

 

Stein Kruse says that HAL is a premium company and needs to drive a premium yield.

 

How can it offer a premium product when it is selling cabins for discount prices? It does not appear that they can charge a premium price, and fill their ships. They have to pick some kind of strategy and stick with it.