Assigning Accessible cabins

[Javacruiser]

An experience I just had on my last cruise on the Carnival Miracle speaks volumes as to why this is a sore subject for many. I booked a "guarantee" cabin for a Cruise Critic group cruise. When they assigned the cabin, it happened to be a cabin that was fully accessible. I was happy to get the extra room but knew there was a chance I could be moved. About 6 weeks before sailing, I was called by my TA saying that the cruiseline had someone who needed an accessible cabin and would I agree to move. I told her that I would certainly move if someone needed it..... which I did.

 

It just so happened that the next door neighbor to the people who took my ADA cabin was a friend on the ship who just happens to be disabled and uses a walker. Her cabin was NOT an ADA cabin. When I found this out I told her I wish I had known she was going to be my neighbor as I would have called Carnival (or my TA) and had them switch our cabins when it was assigned, since she really could have used the space and certainly qualified. When I told her what had happened with my cabin switch she looked obviously upset. She told me there was no way her neighbors were disabled..... They were a young couple who came and went frequently and were quite the partiers.

 

If everything is as it appeared, it really is upsetting that some people will go to that extreme to get more room in their cabin. I know it does happen as I read about it all the time but when it's a first hand experience, it really makes you mad. I wanted to go to their door with my friend and confront them but she didn't want to raise a fuss, and she was probably right......... Maybe it was a disability that was not apparent..... Maybe there was a third person in the cabin that never came out (the cabin only accomodated 2, though)....... Maybe the person with the disability had to cancel and these people took the cabin honestly.......... So we just let it go.

 

I really wish cruiselines could verify the need for an accessible cabin. It seems to me the only people that benefit from the lines not verifying are the people who pull the scam like in our case.... if that is what actually happened. It is well documented that these cabins are roomier and some people try to reserve them for the space only.... not because they need them. If it was as it appeared, they were able to call and hide behind the law that doesn't allow the cruiseline to ask about disabilities. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get the way the law supposedly works to benefit those with disabilities.

 

Am I missing something??

[Cru1s1ng2009]

This is worse than parking in a HC spot with no tags. However, I would not have confronted them either.

[xxoocruiser]

Unless you know for certain that the young couple were the ones that actually requested an ADA cabin, don't be so quick to make assumptions. The disabled couple that may have needed that room might have had to cancel. In which case that ADA cabin would than just be entered into the pool of cabins to be sold again. The couple in that cabin might have actually been assigned the cabin much in the same manner as the OP.

[Arwenmark]

The cruise lines are at least making a stab at trying to verify, but they cannot legally require any info on a person's medical condition, So what they do now is if you book a HC cabin, they send you forms to fill out with information about your wheelchair, scooter, walker etc. and ask for any information, "that will help them to meet your needs" yeah right, anyway, that is how they try to do it.

 

The thing is many people that book never send back the form and the lines do not follow up or move them if they do not.

 

Also as mentioned above, if a person needing an HC cabin books it and then later cancels it goes into the open stock.

[cowboysailor]

An experience I just had on my last cruise on the Carnival Miracle speaks volumes as to why this is a sore subject for many. I booked a "guarantee" cabin for a Cruise Critic group cruise. When they assigned the cabin, it happened to be a cabin that was fully accessible. I was happy to get the extra room but knew there was a chance I could be moved. About 6 weeks before sailing, I was called by my TA saying that the cruiseline had someone who needed an accessible cabin and would I agree to move. I told her that I would certainly move if someone needed it..... which I did.

 

It just so happened that the next door neighbor to the people who took my ADA cabin was a friend on the ship who just happens to be disabled and uses a walker. Her cabin was NOT an ADA cabin. When I found this out I told her I wish I had known she was going to be my neighbor as I would have called Carnival (or my TA) and had them switch our cabins when it was assigned, since she really could have used the space and certainly qualified. When I told her what had happened with my cabin switch she looked obviously upset. She told me there was no way her neighbors were disabled..... They were a young couple who came and went frequently and were quite the partiers.

 

If everything is as it appeared, it really is upsetting that some people will go to that extreme to get more room in their cabin. I know it does happen as I read about it all the time but when it's a first hand experience, it really makes you mad. I wanted to go to their door with my friend and confront them but she didn't want to raise a fuss, and she was probably right......... Maybe it was a disability that was not apparent..... Maybe there was a third person in the cabin that never came out (the cabin only accomodated 2, though)....... Maybe the person with the disability had to cancel and these people took the cabin honestly.......... So we just let it go.

 

I really wish cruiselines could verify the need for an accessible cabin. It seems to me the only people that benefit from the lines not verifying are the people who pull the scam like in our case.... if that is what actually happened. It is well documented that these cabins are roomier and some people try to reserve them for the space only.... not because they need them. If it was as it appeared, they were able to call and hide behind the law that doesn't allow the cruiseline to ask about disabilities. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get the way the law supposedly works to benefit those with disabilities.

 

Am I missing something??

 

well I know when I took my mother in law on a cruise in may on the Liberty. I booked a balcony. Not a handicapped room. I informed them that she was confined to a wheelchair and that I would be bring her chair with us. about 3 weeks later I got a call from carnival asking if I would change to a inside cabin that was accessible . I told them no way .. She loves to watch the water go by and she is 86 so may may never get another chance. I thought that was the end of it . 2 weeks later I got a call from Guest Services at carnival and they had moved us to a new cabin as they were Required to under the ADA. I was furious.. Then they told me where they moved us to . Come to find out they have a policy that they can only upgrade not downgrade. They put us into a ADA compliant suite for her cruise. The staff was awesome and made sure she had all of the help she needed. They did an excellent job.

 

The problem is with some travelers is that they LIE to get the extra space in an ADA cabin. There are people who really need it . My mother in law is one of the people that really does need the space. I know I am the wheelchair pusher.

 

I agree that Cruise lines should require some kind of a doctors statement. I know they required one from my niece who is pregnant. If they would have wanted a letter I would have gotten it for them. Her doctor wanted to stow away in the baggage.. LOL

 

They are getting better at it . They only lost the lawsuit recently it takes some time. So far I think they are doing a good job.

[katisdale]

I don't see the need for a note from one's doctor. Why should an individual with an access problem have to pay to go to the doctor? I can describe my difficulties (unstable gait although still able to walk, big problems with steps, use a scooter, etc.) and have no problem giving my diagnosis (post polio for me) but surely at my age I don't need to have someone verify my condition.

[searoses]

you can not always tell if someone is handicapped......i am often in and out of my cabin and was in my 30s when hit with degenerative disc disease just as my mother and son. not until my 60s have i finally thrown in the towel and gone with the scooter and wheelchair and hc cabins. many conditions are not obvious....

[Loggra]

I am disabled and have booked my first accessible cabin for an Alaskan cruise next year. I filled out the forms and sent them back in. But I would also not mind showing further proof in an effort to stop the using of accessible rooms by non qualified people. I have a handicapped sticker and a registration that show it, why couldn't they use that? My doctor had to sign off on it for me to get it so if all states require that why not use those as proof!

[cb at sea]

In order to get a handicapped parking sticker/tag, do you not have to show proof of the handicap? The same should be required for accessible cabins on the ship. Folks with disabilities generally have a doctor that will verify the need...a fax costs little to nothing...not a huge deal, but would assure that those who need those cabins actually are the ones booking it.

If no one books the cabin 30-60 days out, I see no reason why the cruiseline can't sell it to anyone. Folks who NEED it know to book in advance, as they are limited.

[kitty9]

The new law that went into effect this year does allow the cruise lines to ask why you need the accessible cabin. They don't ask what your disability is, that would be illegal, but they do ask reasons why you need the cabin, such as for the roll in shower, room for a scooter/wheelchair/walker and all that. Personally, I have no problem telling them exactly why I need the HC cabin. I'm disabled and nothing will change that, and I have nothing to hide or be embarrassed about. I have post polio, period and that's why I need an HC cabin.

[xxoocruiser]

I am disabled and have booked my first accessible cabin for an Alaskan cruise next year. I filled out the forms and sent them back in. But I would also not mind showing further proof in an effort to stop the using of accessible rooms by non qualified people. I have a handicapped sticker and a registration that show it, why couldn't they use that? My doctor had to sign off on it for me to get it so if all states require that why not use those as proof!

 

The qualifications for a HC placard differ from State to State and are not federally regulated. So unfortunately some states it's easier to get a HC placard than others. Also many states do not impose fines to the doctors who fraudulantly sign the application ....and yes there are some doctors that will sign for a fee. That's not to say the same can't and won't be done if a passenger needs a Doctor to sign off on getting a HC Cruise Cabin.

 

As of January 1, 2012 a new Federal Law under the Department of Transportation ( commonly referred to as DOT) became effective that requires that the

the cruise lines have to verify that the person occupying the cabin has a medical or physical need to book the cabin . Though this new regulation came about in 2010/2011, the cruise lines were granted until January 1, 2012 to completely comply with these new regulations. Because of this new law Cruise lines have also had to reclassify its HC cabins. Some of the key points to this new law are:

 

(g) To prevent fraud in the assignment of accessible cabins (e.g., attempts by individuals who do not have disabilities to reserve accessible cabins because they have greater space, you—

(1) Must inquire of persons seeking to reserve such cabins whether the individual (or an individual for whom the cabin is being reserved) has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin.

(2) May require a written attestation from the individual that accessible cabin is for a person who has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin.

 

Under the new laws the only time it's acceptable for an able body person to book an HC cabin is after the final payment period has past and any unsold HC cabins are than open to the general public for booking.

 

Under this new law if it's determine that the person(s) does

not actually qaulify even after having submitted an attestation so the need, the cruise has the right to remove them from the cabin.

 

Personnally I beleive this new law has had some positive impact. Though I typically book 1 year in advance , just this year I was able to book 2 cruises 4 months out from the sail date and get an HC cabin. Even had my pick of cabins. In both situations the final payment date had not past yet that would have open the HC Cabins to the general inventory. In my world that's the closet to a last minute booking I'll ever be able to make. In fact my upcoming cruise that I booked 3 weeks ago still has 5 OV HC cabins open and 4 Balcony still open.

[Ians Grandma]

I know that there are people with hidden disabilities but why would they need the modifications in a fully accessible cabin? Fully accessible cabins are designed for people that use assistive devices such as wheelchairs and scooters, therefore the wide doors, roll in showers, grab bars around toilet for transfers, etc. Why would a person that can walk need these features? A person that just needed grab bars could book modified accessisble, if available, of course. I am only asking because I don't understand, I don't mean to offend.

[Essiesmom]

I know that there are people with hidden disabilities but why would they need the modifications in a fully accessible cabin? Fully accessible cabins are designed for people that use assistive devices such as wheelchairs and scooters, therefore the wide doors, roll in showers, grab bars around toilet for transfers, etc. Why would a person that can walk need these features? A person that just needed grab bars could book modified accessisble, if available, of course. I am only asking because I don't understand, I don't mean to offend.

 

Because most cabins are either accessible or not. Only older ships that have had to reconfigure cabins for ADA have 'modified' accessible cabins. EM

[xxoocruiser]

I know that there are people with hidden disabilities but why would they need the modifications in a fully accessible cabin? Fully accessible cabins are designed for people that use assistive devices such as wheelchairs and scooters, therefore the wide doors, roll in showers, grab bars around toilet for transfers, etc. Why would a person that can walk need these features? A person that just needed grab bars could book modified accessisble, if available, of course. I am only asking because I don't understand, I don't mean to offend.

 

I have MS and up until 5 years ago my symptoms were invisible to most. Though I could walk without an assistive device I couldn't stand for any length of time or do steps. At that time ( and still do) require a bathroom that does not have a step and also has a fully accessible shower with a zero threshold to prevent trip/fall hazards. Furthermore at back than ( and still) require to have a seat and grab bars in the shower. Additionally required an accessible height toilet with grab bars. That's why someone who can walk without a mobility aid needs to book a fully accessible cabin and not a modified cabin. Besides only Carnival and HAL offer modify cabins on some of their ships. As the previous poster state most ships have either Accessible and Non-accessible cabins.

 

HC cabins are NOT just for people who use assistive devices. Under the new law a person who has a medical and or physical need for the features of an accessible cabin can book it. The law does not restrict booking only to people who use mobility aids.

[raindropsalways]

When I first got involved from the “handicap” aspect, I immediately realized that “accessible” cabins were oriented toward those with inability to walk. Other cabins would meet the needs of the blind, death and those that would be subject to seizures and probably other conditions that I am not aware of.

 

In a quick check, the majority of the lines still refer to the cabins as “accessible”. NCL and MSC refer to the cabins as “disabled” and Costa makes reference to “handicapped”. Carnival is the only one that made reference to “accessible” cabins and “modified cabins for the disabled”. Hal also makes reference to “modified accessible”.

 

Now that the cruise lines are permitted to ask the reason a person needs an accessible cabin, they should be able to determine exactly who needs what. Of course, there will always be those that distort the facts. In my last direct contact with an able-bodied individual using an accessible cabin; she advised me that she had to have it because she was afraid of a small shower. At that moment, I scooted away to avoid saying anything unlady like.

 

I may have misunderstood when the cruise lines are allowed to release the non-booked accessible cabins into general inventory. I was under the impression that as soon as all the other cabins in the same category had been booked, they could release the accessible cabins in that category. I did not connect it with final payment. On our up-coming cruise, NCL has already started releasing the accessible cabins in a couple categories and our final payment is not due until November.

 

The most pleasant thing about this thread is the willingness of individuals to tell the ship why they need an accessible cabin. It seems like too many are reluctant to tell the cruise lines using the privacy act. I have never seen any cruise line publish anybody's disability in their daily paper, so what is the big deal? Personally, I would rather the cruise line knows my disabilities in case I have problems.

 

Betty

[DonnasMom&Dad]

When I first got involved from the “handicap” aspect, I immediately realized that “accessible” cabins were oriented toward those with inability to walk. Other cabins would meet the needs of the blind,death :confused: and those that would be subject to seizures and probably other conditions that I am not aware of.

 

In a quick check, the majority of the lines still refer to the cabins as “accessible”. NCL and MSC refer to the cabins as “disabled” and Costa makes reference to “handicapped”. Carnival is the only one that made reference to “accessible” cabins and “modified cabins for the disabled”. Hal also makes reference to “modified accessible”.

 

Now that the cruise lines are permitted to ask the reason a person needs an accessible cabin, they should be able to determine exactly who needs what. Of course, there will always be those that distort the facts. In my last direct contact with an able-bodied individual using an accessible cabin; she advised me that she had to have it because she was afraid of a small shower. At that moment, I scooted away to avoid saying anything unlady like.

 

I may have misunderstood when the cruise lines are allowed to release the non-booked accessible cabins into general inventory. I was under the impression that as soon as all the other cabins in the same category had been booked, they could release the accessible cabins in that category. I did not connect it with final payment. On our up-coming cruise, NCL has already started releasing the accessible cabins in a couple categories and our final payment is not due until November.

 

The most pleasant thing about this thread is the willingness of individuals to tell the ship why they need an accessible cabin. It seems like too many are reluctant to tell the cruise lines using the privacy act. I have never seen any cruise line publish anybody's disability in their daily paper, so what is the big deal? Personally, I would rather the cruise line knows my disabilities in case I have problems.

 

Betty

 

I agree with you, except for one point. :D

 

Cato :)

 

Completed Cruises !

 

Pre-cruise Days - The Big Red Boat, 1993 ??

 

1st cruise - Coral Princess, 19 November 2008, 10 day Panama Canal, FLL to ACA

2nd cruise - Coral Princess, 15 May 2009, 3 day Repositioning, Los Angeles to Vancouver.

3rd cruise - Sapphire Princess, 25 November 2009? 7 day Mexican Riviera.

4th cruise - Golden Princes, 12 June 2010, 7 day Alaska. (Golden Anniversary Cruise)

5th Cruise - Island Princess, 04 October 2010, Vancouver - Los Angeles, Repositioning

6th cruise - Sapphire Princess, 05 January 2011, 10 day Mexican Riviera. LA to LA.

7th cruise - Golden Princess, 11 May 2011, 3 day, LA to Vancouver, Repositioning

8th cruise - Sapphire Princess, 14 May 2011, 1 day, Vancouver to Seattle, Repositioning

9th cruise - Coral Princess 19 May 2011 2 day, San Francisco to Vancouver, Repositioning

10th & 11th cruises - Coral Princess 02 July to 16 July 2011, round trip Vancouver - Whittier Alaska, B2B

12th & 13th cruises - Sapphire Princess, x2, Cabins, 18 Sep. 2011, 1 day, Seattle to Vancouver, Repositioning

14th & 15th cruises - Golden Princess, x2, Cabins, 24 Sep. 2011, 1 day, Seattle to Vancouver, Repositioning.

We have now reached Elite status with Princess Cruise Lines

16th cruise - Oasis of the Seas, 26 Nov. 2011, 7 day, Western Caribbean, Ft. Lauderdale, Ret.

17th & 18th cruises - Crown Princess B2B, 03 - 10 Dec & 10 - 17 Dec 2011, 14 Days, South & western Caribbean

19th cruise - Grand Princess, 31 Mar. - 07Jun.0212 7 Days, Eastern Caribbean, FLL - FLL

20th cruise - Island Princess, 06-16 June 2012, 10 day cruisetour Vancouver - Wittier

Future & Hopeful Cruises !

( Already booked )

.

21th cruise - Emerald Princess, 16 day, 10 - 26 Sep. 2012, TA, Copenhagen - New York.

22 & 23rd cruises - Sapphire Princess B2B, 04 - 11 May & 11 - 18 May, 2013, California Coastal & Wine Country

24th cruise - Royal Princess 16 June - 05 July, 2013, 19 Day Inaugural cruise, Southampton - Venice.

25th cruise - Emerald Princess, 01 Oct. - 16 Oct. 2013, 16 Day Cruisetour, Toronto Via Quebec City to New York City

 

 

 

[raindropsalways]

I agree with you' date=' except for one[/color']point. :D

 

Cato :)

 

 

 

Oops... sorry for the booboo. I should not write when I'm half asleep. At least you made lite of the error and did not slam me up against the wall. Thanks!

 

 

Wish that I had a way of getting a picture of my entire street block. They are pouring curbs right now my scooter is amongst all the equipment out there. I parked it out there so they would not have to build a ramp. Did not realize just how tiny a scooter is. Will put it back in the van this afternoon.

 

 

Betty

[searoses]

i would have no problem being more specific but i would hope my doctor's sig would be enough. as he looked at my latest knee mri he asked me if i'd actually walked into the office. i look "normal" from the outside but the inside is a mess!! lol:D

[CRUISEWITHH]

I booked an accessible cabin for a future cruise (2013) while I was onboard a Princess cruise back in June. The onboard host did the booking for me and was aware that my husband was using a mobility scooter.

 

I had a call today from Princess asking why I needed a H/C cabin for the 2013 cruise. I told her that my husband uses a mobility scooter. Then she asked if he could walk a little and I said yes. However he does need a shower with a zero threshold to prevent falling.

 

I hope that doesn't mean that I could get bumped from that cabin if someone else is less mobile than my husband?

 

They didn't ask for any proof of disability.

[raindropsalways]

Please do not worry, it is your cabin. The ship is just attempting to verify your need. I'm surprised that they have not asked you to fill out a special needs form.

 

The shower incident I mentioned simply proved that some people create all sort of flimsy excuses to get the bigger cabins. She was stammering and stuttering because I found out she was in an accessible cabin. She was also one of our table mates thus I still had to be civil toward her.

 

On a couple different ships, we were questioned about our ability to walk in case of an emergency. If we have to abandon ship, it is nice for the crew to know who they have to carry and who they have to assist.

 

Betty

[uppitycats]

I have MS, use a wheelchair for mobility. If I cannot get a fully accessible cabin, I can't cruise. Simple as that. To that end, I'd release all 6 inches of my medical records to the cruise line if it would assure my access! :) While I certainly value my privacy, I also think disclosure isn't always a bad thing.

 

I hope cruise lines and other venues really take seriously the needs of people with disabilities, and work to assure that their accessible cabins (or rooms, or whatever) truly are used by those who need them, and not just folks who find them "convenient".

[doctork]

I have MS, use a wheelchair for mobility. If I cannot get a fully accessible cabin, I can't cruise. Simple as that. To that end, I'd release all 6 inches of my medical records to the cruise line if it would assure my access! :) While I certainly value my privacy, I also think disclosure isn't always a bad thing.

 

I hope cruise lines and other venues really take seriously the needs of people with disabilities, and work to assure that their accessible cabins (or rooms, or whatever) truly are used by those who need them, and not just folks who find them "convenient".

 

Your doctor shouldn't have to release all your medical records, or give a specific diagnosis. He/she should be able to fill out a form much like the information the cruise lines ask to verify your need: can you walk (or will the crew need to assist you in an emergency evacuation), do you need a raised toilet seat and grab bars, do you need a wide door, do you need a bathroom with enough space for side-to-side transfer, etc.

 

Another important point about MS specifically, which by the way, typically begins in one's 20's. There may be good days when you can walk quite well ("Gee you don't look disabled") and other days when you can barely stand up. When booking a cruise months in advance, there maybe no way to tell how ambulatory you will be at the time of the cruise, so you hope for the best but plan for the worst.

 

That is another reason why someone who has no apparent disability may be in a handicapped cabin. And if they are having a good day or week, they night even be up partying at night! Since MS is a progressive disease, they may want to take advantage of their mobility while they still have it.

[twinbee]

I know that there are people with hidden disabilities but why would they need the modifications in a fully accessible cabin? Fully accessible cabins are designed for people that use assistive devices such as wheelchairs and scooters, therefore the wide doors, roll in showers, grab bars around toilet for transfers, etc. Why would a person that can walk need these features? A person that just needed grab bars could book modified accessisble, if available, of course. I am only asking because I don't understand, I don't mean to offend.

 

 

I agree. I am booked on Carnival Breeze next year. I am totally wheelchair dependent. When I booked my room, I was asked by Carnival if I needed an accessible room or a "turn around" room. I told them I use my wheelchair at all times, so they told me I qualify for the turn around. The turn around room is a room where I can use my wheelchair throughout the room. I thought all the handicap rooms were like this. But they told me no. What surprised me was that I wanted a balcony room, and they only had one of these type rooms. I did have to fill out a few forms and fax them back to Carnival before they confirmed my booking.

[Chunky2219]

Sometimes the shower is the clincher. Anyone with balance problems or motor insufficiency is going to be at risk in a tiny, stepped shower with a curtain and precious little room for a shower stool.

 

The solution is either a HC cabin with a seated shower or something larger with a tub.

[uppitycats]

Your doctor shouldn't have to release all your medical records, or give a specific diagnosis. He/she should be able to fill out a form much like the information the cruise lines ask to verify your need: can you walk (or will the crew need to assist you in an emergency evacuation), do you need a raised toilet seat and grab bars, do you need a wide door, do you need a bathroom with enough space for side-to-side transfer, etc.

 

Another important point about MS specifically, which by the way, typically begins in one's 20's. There may be good days when you can walk quite well ("Gee you don't look disabled") and other days when you can barely stand up. When booking a cruise months in advance, there maybe no way to tell how ambulatory you will be at the time of the cruise, so you hope for the best but plan for the worst.

 

That is another reason why someone who has no apparent disability may be in a handicapped cabin. And if they are having a good day or week, they night even be up partying at night! Since MS is a progressive disease, they may want to take advantage of their mobility while they still have it.

 

Having been a disabilities consultant for a 30 year career, and having had MS for the last 35 years, I'm quite aware of what MS "looks like" to an outside observer, and what it really is like to the person dealing with it.

 

I would not ever challenge anyone in a handicap-accessible cabin. I'd wonder, if I saw them popping in/out, about why they might have gotten it, but I'd assume that either they had an "invisible disability", or were assigned the cabin at the "last minute"-- after final payments were due -- to fill the ship.

 

I WILL always question folks on this site, and others, who openly come on here and either brag about how they "snagged" an accessible cabin for a variety of reasons, some of which we've heard repeatedly: more space, room for my kids to play, place to store my scuba gear, like the bigger shower, etc.

 

And again...if it meant that the cruise lines would do their best to hold on to the handicap-accessible cabins until after final payment is due, releasing them only when assigning guarantees, I'd be happy to tell them whatever they need to know about my disability (and yes, again, I KNOW I don't have to release ALL my medical records, by law -- but if they ask, they can have them!).