Seabourn's "house wines"

[johnnycruise]

Seabourn is not the only company in the travel industry which uses very subjective terms about its included wines (i.e. "fine" wines). The Beaches/Sandals resort chain refers to Beringer Stone Cellars wines as their "premium house wines," and mentions that they raise the standard of included wines at their resorts. I guess what they used to serve came in a box. Stone Cellars wines retail for about $4.99/bottle and are definitely the very low end of the Beringer branding.

[redheadednancy]

I was just reading another blog of people talking about their cruises on various lines. There was an editor of the blog that was taking his first cruise on the Seabourn Sojourn....this is what he had to say about the wines that were served! "Last night we ate in Restaurant 2 - What an excellent meal that was. Another thing I have noticed is that the wine is exquisite with every meal - far more so that with other lines where the wine has been included with dinner. The whites are always just the right touch on the tongue. But the reds are exquisite - with the perfect texture and never an after bite." Made me laugh as he bashed the lack of entertainment, small casino, lack of time in port and a few other things.

 

Just goes to show how many opinions there are!

[NEOPHYTUS]

Was on a trip recently with stays a two Sheratons in California, paying $79 a night at one and $109 at the other. Being a member of the Starwood preferred program you have evening access to their club lounge for refreshments and snacks. The complimentary white wines were Sonoma Cutter and Frei Brothers chardonnays and the reds were La Crema and Sterling, all which retail between $20 to $25 USD. Very,very good for complimentary.

Seabourn needs to step up and stop deceiving its passengers with "fine" wines that are undrinkable and cheap enough to be purchased reatail in the $5 range.

[laryrob]

Was on a trip recently with stays a two Sheratons in California, paying $79 a night at one and $109 at the other. Being a member of the Starwood preferred program you have evening access to their club lounge for refreshments and snacks. The complimentary white wines were Sonoma Cutter and Frei Brothers chardonnays and the reds were La Crema and Sterling, all which retail between $20 to $25 USD. Very,very good for complimentary.

Seabourn needs to step up and stop deceiving its passengers with "fine" wines that are undrinkable and cheap enough to be purchased reatail in the $5 range.

or not charge a corkage fee! Also, Chairsin-IMO "good french rose" is an oxymoron!

[laryrob]

We next cruise with Seabourn April 2012. The wines were not too bad when we sailed on Odyssey last year but if they are now as bad as reported here and remain that way then that may be our last cruise with them. We cruise Seabourn because we don't penny pinch. If they do then we will look elsewhere.

It's a pity Seabourn doesn't employ a Blogging Officer. Azamara has, and he offers the impression of providing a direct link between CC members and Azamara management. He is given quite a hard time on these forums, and generally regurgitates the company line in a long winded fashion, but he has managed to get things changed. Other lines could look and learn. Alan

we have been regular Regent cruisers and the Regent wines were generally pretty good. On a number of cruises they have had a wine day which featured the wines from around the world they serve. Also there were always wine gatherings or seminars where some very nice wines were poured and featured a speaker from the area we were in(Australia,South Americ,Mediterranian) It's really not that hard to get good drinkable wines at very reasonable prices(think Oregon Pinots,Argentinian Malbecs) so I dont understand why there's a problem. We're on the Sojourn from Buenos Aires to Santiago in Nov-hope the wines are good but just in case I will bring some higher end Malbecs on board with us and eat the corkage if nec.

[oregon50]

Was on a trip recently with stays a two Sheratons in California, paying $79 a night at one and $109 at the other. Being a member of the Starwood preferred program you have evening access to their club lounge for refreshments and snacks. The complimentary white wines were Sonoma Cutter and Frei Brothers chardonnays and the reds were La Crema and Sterling, all which retail between $20 to $25 USD. Very,very good for complimentary.

Seabourn needs to step up and stop deceiving its passengers with "fine" wines that are undrinkable and cheap enough to be purchased reatail in the $5 range.

 

I'm really, really curious to which hotels you make reference. And please, you do not gain lounge access by being a program member unless you are platinum.

[white oak]

White Oak,

 

I just spoke with someone who recently got off the Silver Whisper and could not stop complaining about the quality of the wines and how it has deteriorated. As I said if wine quality is the deciding factor perhaps one should look elsewhere but personally, I choose a cruise line for a composite of factors and that's where SB usually comes out on top.

 

Wripro

 

Your right. I don't think anyone chooses a cruise line solely on the wines available and weigh a composite of factors when deciding with what company to sail with. I liked the Odyssey layout much more than the Silversea Spirit and I think the crew/staff attitude was much better. However, due to the low quality of the wines I needed to bring a case from my own cellar and purchase the gold package while onboard. Since eating and drinking tends to be a major focus of cruises, (especially on TAs) it is disconcerting to have a nice lunch or dinner and be served the swill they are trying to pass off as "fine wines". It ruins the dining experience unless you choose to buy a bottle or bring your own. I'm not advocating for the included wines to be in the 30 -50 retail range. But, nowadays to get a good, everyday drinkable wine your price point needs to be in the 15-25 dollar retail range. This probably means for Seabourn they would need to pay wholesale in the 7 -13 dollar range. They're probably averaging 1/2 that. If I go up to the bar for a glass of wine I don't want to have to purchase a bottle. Either Seabourn purchases better quality wines or they should stop toting their product as inclusive of "fine wines". Its deceptive advertising and far from the truth.

[wripro]

Laryrob,

 

Despite what the "policy" says I have NEVER seen SB charge a corkage fee on board one os its ships. NEVER!

 

WhiteOak,

 

Though I understand your logic it seems your quarrel is with SB's advertising and its use of the word "fine" to describe its wines. If they drop the word fine will that change your opinion of your cruise? Sometimes we have to accept that there have been cost cuts. Personally, I couldn't care less if they dropped all the money they spend on entertainment since I rarely go to the shows and used that to enhance the budget for wines. But others will disagree. So in the end each of us must do our research, come to a conclusion and then either book or go elsewhere. It won't help to have 300 posts on CC complaining over and over.

[white oak]

It won't help to have 300 posts on CC complaining over and over.

 

Probably not, but it should, especially in these days of marketing through social media and the like. If Seabourn management doesn't monitor the boards and numerous complaints doesn't make management reconsider their decisions, then lets see where they are in 5 years.

[laryrob]

Laryrob,

 

Despite what the "policy" says I have NEVER seen SB charge a corkage fee on board one os its ships. NEVER!

 

WhiteOak,

 

Though I understand your logic it seems your quarrel is with SB's advertising and its use of the word "fine" to describe its wines. If they drop the word fine will that change your opinion of your cruise? Sometimes we have to accept that there have been cost cuts. Personally, I couldn't care less if they dropped all the money they spend on entertainment since I rarely go to the shows and used that to enhance the budget for wines. But others will disagree. So in the end each of us must do our research, come to a conclusion and then either book or go elsewhere. It won't help to have 300 posts on CC complaining over and over.

I'll let you know re the corkage fee after the 1st couple of nights-hope you're right

[NEOPHYTUS]

I'm really, really curious to which hotels you make reference. And please, you do not gain lounge access by being a program member unless you are platinum.

 

Stayed at several Sheratons during the driving trip..the lounge with best wines were at the Pasadena and Carlsbad locations..the others either had mediocre wines or no club lounge. Many Starwood properties grant access to gold members also and some even provide breakfast to all levels of membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest program. Selective corporate affiliations are also granted access.

[MARIANH]

Laryrob,

 

Despite what the "policy" says I have NEVER seen SB charge a corkage fee on board one os its ships. NEVER!

 

WhiteOak,

 

Though I understand your logic it seems your quarrel is with SB's advertising and its use of the word "fine" to describe its wines. If they drop the word fine will that change your opinion of your cruise? Sometimes we have to accept that there have been cost cuts. Personally, I couldn't care less if they dropped all the money they spend on entertainment since I rarely go to the shows and used that to enhance the budget for wines. But others will disagree. So in the end each of us must do our research, come to a conclusion and then either book or go elsewhere. It won't help to have 300 posts on CC complaining over and over.

 

All many posters really seem to want is an uplift in the quality of the wines or at least for Seabourn to be honest in their description. It's really about managing expectations. Seabourn sells itself as a luxury brand. It fails dismally in the wine Department.

 

And yes it does pay to complain if you want things to change. Sycophancy won't do it.

[lincslady]

I would like Seabourn to

 

a) stop describing them as 'fine wines' and, more importantly,

 

b) bring back the stilll inexpensive but better wines of a year or two ago

 

c) get on with it!

[margbem]

I would like Seabourn to

 

a) stop describing them as 'fine wines' and, more importantly,

 

b) bring back the stilll inexpensive but better wines of a year or two ago

 

c) get on with it!

 

Exactly my opinion too!

[MARIANH]

I would like Seabourn to

 

a) stop describing them as 'fine wines' and, more importantly,

 

b) bring back the stilll inexpensive but better wines of a year or two ago

 

c) get on with it!

 

Well said. I'll drink to that.

[Seabourn-nail]

Oliver Ellinger

Well fair enough, all comments are valid, however we all know that no Seabourn Staff ever says no, at least that is not the way they are trained to respond in this situation, furthermore the wines today most reflect the avaibility of the ma...rket, with now 6 ships I guess you might wish to find your favority throughout the fleet, which is not so easy when some times a avarage of 150 bottles are served a day, that requires large stock levels and consistancy, but yes keep friend with the Sommelier ( Oliver Ellinger,Former Seabourn; Sommelier| Bar Manager| Training Manager)

........... Oliver was kind enough to post this on the wal of the "Seabourn Friends" group on facebook!

Marja

[MARIANH]

Oliver Ellinger

Well fair enough, all comments are valid, however we all know that no Seabourn Staff ever says no, at least that is not the way they are trained to respond in this situation, furthermore the wines today most reflect the avaibility of the ma...rket, with now 6 ships I guess you might wish to find your favority throughout the fleet, which is not so easy when some times a avarage of 150 bottles are served a day, that requires large stock levels and consistancy, but yes keep friend with the Sommelier ( Oliver Ellinger,Former Seabourn; Sommelier| Bar Manager| Training Manager)

 

........... Oliver was kind enough to post this on the wal of the "Seabourn Friends" group on facebook!

 

Marja

 

I have sympathy for the sommeliers. They are an invidious position. They must know that the wines are poor yet they still have to pour.

[grannytoo]

I never had a problem with house wines on Seabourn but with the champagne. I think that the Nicolas Feuillate champagne served on board is terrible.

There are so good french champagnes on the market and the choice they do is really bad!!

[Winner]

--and I have no complaints, espcially choices of Sauvignon Blancs. However, I do wish Seabourn would again serve Matanzas Creek wines. In speaking with the famed Nelson, he did not feel house wines had deterioated. By the way, the bar waiters and sommeliers were excellent and helpful.

 

Winnie

[wwinfl91]

What white and red wines are provided for in-suite sipping? I noticed when I filled in the preferences sheet that they asked for what alcohol (in my case Meyers Rum) and also asked for a wine choice, red or white. Are you allowed to pick from the same list that is available in the dining rooms?

 

Thanks in advance for your answers. By the way this will be our first Seabourn cruise as you can probably tell from my questions. We are really looking forward to the cruise.

[NEOPHYTUS]

What white and red wines are provided for in-suite sipping? I noticed when I filled in the preferences sheet that they asked for what alcohol (in my case Meyers Rum) and also asked for a wine choice, red or white. Are you allowed to pick from the same list that is available in the dining rooms?

 

Thanks in advance for your answers. By the way this will be our first Seabourn cruise as you can probably tell from my questions. We are really looking forward to the cruise.

 

From the time you make a preference until you board the wine selection has a very good chance of changing a number of times thus the generic selection of red or white. Once on board if you see a "fine" wine :eek: from the complimentary selection you like, you can request it for your suite.

[MARIANH]

From the time you make a preference until you board the wine selection has a very good chance of changing a number of times thus the generic selection of red or white. Once on board if you see a "fine" wine :eek: from the complimentary selection you like, you can request it for your suite.

 

But not by the case please:rolleyes:

 

I have found that if a "fine" (sic) wine does slip under the Seabourn radar, stocks rapidly become depleted. Either the word gets round and other passengers indulge or Seabourn " conserves" their stock.:(

 

Best to keep Mumm.

[4kitties]

Host Dan - we could use this thread as a "sticky!!!"

 

Here is a list posted previously by another member (johnnycruise) and reposted by FlamingJune. It was from this summer 2011 at the Legend. It is virtually identical to what they served on the Soujourn earlier this summer.

 

The original post is:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1448140

 

Here is the included wine list from 7/29/2011 (Monte Carlo - Civitavecchia), compliments of sommelier Gergely Novak. He was most helpful and knowledgeable.

 

White

 

Pinot Grigio Santa Margherita (Italy)

Gavi La Scolca White Label Piedmont (Italy)

Chardonnay Louis Latour Grand Ardeche (France)

Chardonnay Robert Mondavi California (USA)

Chardonnay Unwooded De Meye (South Africa)

Chardonnay Milton Park (South Australia)

Sauvignon Blanc Wingspan Nelson (New Zealand)

Sauvignon Blanc Santa Alicia Maipo Valley (Chile)

Sauvignon Blanc Michel Lynch Bordeaux Blanc (France)

 

Red

 

Pinot Noir Brassfield Round Mountain High Valley (USA)

Cotes de Rhone Grenache Syrah (France)

Merlot Anakena Rapel Valley (Chile)

Merlot Arrowood Napa Valley California (USA)

Merlot/Cabernet Sirius Bordeaux Rouge (France)

Chianti Classico Riserva Placido (Italy)

Rosso di Toscana Serego Alighieri Tuscany (Italy)

Carmenere Petit Verdot Shiraz Santa Alicia B2 Blend (Chile)

Malbec Corvina Passo Doble Tupungato Valley (Argentina)

Malbec Los Toneles Mendoza (Argentina)

Zinfandel Quivira Dry Creek Valley California (USA)

Aromo Cabernet Sauvignon Maule Valley (Chile)

Milton Park Shiraz (South Australia)

 

Rose

 

JP Chenet Grenache Cinsault Rose (France)

Modello Rosato Masi (Italy)

Rose de Meye Stellenbosch (South Africa)

Beringer White Zinfandel California (USA)

 

Dessert Wine

 

Chateau Saint Amand, Sauternes (France)

 

Sparkling

 

Nicholas Feuillatte Brut Champagne (France)

Prosecco Raso Corona Prosecco IGT (Italy)

 

 

At Livorno, bar manager Victor Kirkbride, purchased a Tuscan white and a Tuscan red which paired perfectly with the cuisine offered on the deck barbeque. Victor did a superb job and handled several special requests.

 

Only once did we receive prosecco when champagne was requested ... two glasses with a room service breakfast. That delivery also had the prosecco in two different-sized flutes, so I consider that service an anomaly. At all bars and events we attended, the champagne was poured. The Sky Bar had a bottle of prosecco on hand for a guest who preferred prosecco over champagne for her bellinis and rossinis.

__________________

 

 

Many of the whites were dreadful on our last cruise. The Chardonnay Louis Latour Grand Ardeche (France) is drinkable. We requested it two nights when the house white was truly dreadful. It is not an expensive white by any means (<$10 USD), but decent. More than one Seabourn sommelier told me it was one of the better house whites. In the past it was always available on request. On our last cruise in September on the Sojourn, it was always difficult to get it, making for an unpleasant dinner experience.

 

Other than that minor point we had a great cruise.

 

But please, let us not call these complimentary wines "fine wines."

 

[LEESRE]

Just sailed on Seabourn Odyssey and must say that since our Seabourn Quest cruise in August of this year the wines poured at lunch and dinner, in our opinion are far better.

Seabourn must be listening to this thread.

[wripro]

That's encouraging.