Costa incident: Return to Professional Muster?

[Cruise Cat]

All this talk of life jackets is sort of moot for the venue that the Concordia was in. The water is freezing. Hypothermia would kill you fairly quickly (relatively speaking). Floating around until you were picked up by a life boat doesn't work in waters that cold.

 

I too am saddened by this and will keep all involved in my prayers.

 

I would not exactly call 16 degrees C (61 degrees F) "freezing", although not comfortable at all.

[ilovetexas]

This whole thing is just horrible and we'll be finding out a lot more in days to come. Prayers for the passengers and crew.

 

As for the safety drill, whether or not it would have helped in this situation, some things need to change. They've gotten to be a joke on CCL.

 

1. Make them serious again, bring life jackets, take attendance and make people pay attention.

 

2. Do the drill BEFORE sail away, regardless of the time.

 

3. Put it in the cruise contract that they are MANDATORY and you will be escorted off the ship if you choose not to participate or are in any way disruptive during the drill. Enforce the rules! Once a few passengers get bounced off ships for failure to participate (with NO refund of fare), people will start paying attention.

[H82seaUgo]

All this talk of life jackets is sort of moot for the venue that the Concordia was in. The water is freezing. Hypothermia would kill you fairly quickly (relatively speaking). Floating around until you were picked up by a life boat doesn't work in waters that cold.

 

I too am saddened by this and will keep all involved in my prayers.

 

i wouldn`t focus on the jackets. they are symbolic.

 

it`s the lack of attention that bothers me. you used to be able to hear a pin drop at these things. the only thing missing at them now is an open bar.

[Cruise Cat]

I agree . I have been on cruises where I can tell the crew is just going throught the motions , they act like they are marking off names , but when ten people pass at once there is no way you got every cabin number , no one is that good. Look I dont like the crazy things but it is what it is and 30 minutes might save out lives.

 

I my last RCCL cruise (Oasis), they had a several crew and they scanned our cards. However, we were simply seated inside a theater (ice rink) and shown a video and then listened to the captain. I really had to think of a similar situation on board a ship that size with all their passengers (6000).

[Lisl123]

Now I just make sure I do remedial lifejacketing on each cruise.

 

hehehe remedial lifejacketing ... maybe they should have a special class before leaving port for those who want to attend ... put it in the embarkation newsletter :D

[yankee46]

Read things carefully. Yes the drill needs to be taken more seriously by crew and passangers, but the fact remains its not good enough. Read and listen to reports a lot of pasengers acted badly especially the men they were pushing crew and just generally badly behaved. And thats a trait of our society . In the days of Titanic it was understood that women and children go first. That would not happen in todays society especially when the liquor flows so freely as it does now. Someone wrote don't open the bars until muster is over. Ha do you think the cruise lines would forsake that income not a chance. The solution is clearly not evident I just wish people would be more considerate of each other in a emergency.

[ilovetexas]

I would not exactly call 16 degrees C (61 degrees F) "freezing", although not comfortable at all.

 

I was curious so I looked and found this:

 

http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

 

It states that unconsciousness can/will occur in as little as 1-2 hours and expected survival time is between 1-6 hours (61 degrees was right on the edge of two measurements so I went with worst case scenario). Consider that there are often elderly/frail people on these ships and these numbers/times will go down.

[kelkel2]

Carnival could learn a lot from princess. We not only had to bring our life jackets, we had to put them on, adjust them and they showed us where the light and the whistle were. Not that you couldn't find those yourself, but in a case of massive panic it sure would be easer to put one on if you've done it at least once before. Plus, they took our sign and sail cards and scanned them and yes, everyone around us had theirs scanned too. they had several staff members walking around scanning cards.

At least Princess shows effort in trying to get everyone to go. Unlike carnival, at least they try to determine who isn't there!

[Cruise Cat]

It's not just the muster drill that needs to be taken more seriously again, but the whole operation of the ship. One shouldn't be upset that the Captain and his officers have more important things to do than meet up with a group of cruisers at their group get togethers. Nice, if he can do it, yes; but, we should not be upset if they can't make it. Same thing goes with maintenance of the ship. It may be an inconvienience when they have something or an area closed for maintenance, but they have to work on it sometime.

[rainbowflag]

There are reports coming out the crew was in a panic , I have always said if a ship goes down do you really think these young kids are going to calmly standing and pointing you to a lifeboat and now we know.

 

Good point and history backs you up. In 1956 when the Italian liner Andrea Doria collided with the liner Stockholm off Nantucket the Andrea Doria took a dramatic list which rendered half the lifeboats useless for evacuation just as happened to Costa Concordia. The first survivors to arrive aboard the Stockholm from the Doria were white jacketed dining room stewards. It wouldn't surprise me to learn of similar crew reactions in the days ahead.

[Cushing985]

Even if life preservers are not taken to muster - everyone - please please - take them out of the closet - put them on, check the clips, the straps, check the fit. make sure the clips slide and there are no knots preventing proper sizing ... these are things you don't want to concern yourself with later. Parents, make sure that you have CHILD size life jackets that are the appropriate size for your infant or child ... if you bring a baby onboard, I suggest bringing a life jacket - those provided do not always fit properly. It is also a good idea to bring child sized life jackets of your own for your children to use on tender boats and excursions.

 

Excellent advice!

[USNUZULOOSE]

I just returned from our cruise on friday, and while in the cabin I was looking at the life jackets. There were four of them ( inside cabin ) I did open one up and it was in good shape. It was in working order.

 

I may get flamed for saying this but maybe there should be no alcohol served until after muster. I want to know if something happens I am able to do what is needed in case of emergency. I am not drinking.

 

We had ours in a lounge and then escorted outside to our area. They should of had us go there in the first place.

[QLUVS2CRUZ]

I was curious so I looked and found this:

 

http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

 

It states that unconsciousness can/will occur in as little as 1-2 hours and expected survival time is between 1-6 hours (61 degrees was right on the edge of two measurements so I went with worst case scenario). Consider that there are often elderly/frail people on these ships and these numbers/times will go down.

 

This would certainly be a bigger issue if the ship is out in open water and people have no choice but to float in the water. I guess it can be counted as a positive that some people were able to jump in the water and swim to shore, since it was so close in this case.

[rainbowflag]

Read things carefully. Yes the drill needs to be taken more seriously by crew and passangers, but the fact remains its not good enough. Read and listen to reports a lot of pasengers acted badly especially the men they were pushing crew and just generally badly behaved. And thats a trait of our society . In the days of Titanic it was understood that women and children go first. That would not happen in todays society especially when the liquor flows so freely as it does now. Someone wrote don't open the bars until muster is over. Ha do you think the cruise lines would forsake that income not a chance. The solution is clearly not evident I just wish people would be more considerate of each other in a emergency.

 

Chivalry was the order of the day in 1912 but the fact remains that more first class men , as a percentage , survived the sinking than did third class children.

[Cruise Cat]

I was curious so I looked and found this:

 

http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

 

It states that unconsciousness can/will occur in as little as 1-2 hours and expected survival time is between 1-6 hours (61 degrees was right on the edge of two measurements so I went with worst case scenario). Consider that there are often elderly/frail people on these ships and these numbers/times will go down.

 

Thanks. Somewhere back, I always remember 65 degrees being listed where it starts to get cold enough to put your body at risk, but that was for air.. Agree with your point on the elderly. I failed to think of them (my bad). I just rember growing up in Ohio swimming in the lake in early summer when the water was in the high 60s to low 70s. Looking on that chart 60 would be right at 2 hours. It seems to be an exponential effect in that 60-70 degree range.

 

I think of the incidents they have had down near Antartica a few years ago when a smaller ship sank. But, they take some of the larger ships (a princess ship I believe) down around the horn in late January (summer for them) and I always worry what would happen there. That water is extremely cold!

[PAPERBKWRITER]

Running aground in a well traveled route is a mortal sin. Cruise ships should NEVER run aground. Worst case scenario, stop and drop the anchor if the ship controls are compromised until repairs can be made. Since no distress call was sent the captain must have thought the situation was under control. His bad. The safety drill; I get irritated at the dumb @#%$# that laugh, talk, and pay no attention to instructions. Bringing the life vests (IMO) is unnecessary. Most cruisers are repeat. People should check them in their cabin and if a newbie put it on. This incident should be a wake-up call for a lot of folks.

[jonbgd]

I think they should bring back the old Muster. While Ive not been as serious about the muster as I once was. A situation like this is reinforces the need to take a muster drill seriously.

 

The muster drill has turned into a joke over the years. But even if they did change it back It would only help the ones that pay attention instead of talking or complaining.

Some cruiselines take roll or check you off a list some just count heads

 

The USCG dictates what happens on cruise ship but only from US ports

So I do see it being changed around here, who knows what will happen abroad

 

While it does matter how much training someone has had some people cant handle pressure. I know some of us on the boards have had alot more training than most but not sure if any of us have had a real ship sinking evacuation. SO while it sounds like there was alot of panic onboard from the staff im thinking non of them have ever been thru a real one

[westview1]

I think they need to bring back the old muster drill with life jackets and make everyone put one on.

 

I remember my 1st cruise (Fascination - 2004) had the muster drill with the life jackets, but the last few cruises did not, we met at the muster station and listened to the announcement. I have been on other lines and I think on Princess we had to bring the jacket and meet in the theater. We always check for the life vests. I like to know where they are, because you never know what could happen.

 

I don't know if all the preparation would help some people. There are people who will panic in the situation and those who will not. I think the crew would make a difference during the emergency, if the crew is panicking, than the passengers would not feel as safe.

 

One last thought, they should have a video of the procedure and have it play it on an loop in the cabins. I don't recall seeing this on any cruise I've taken. Although many people don't watch the tv, there are some who do and it could save a life.

[NHNEV2003]

Maybe now people will take the drill more seriously-- not trying to get out of it, or showing up in their bathrobes drinks in hand.

 

It's the same thing on airplanes-- no one listens to the instructions.

 

Everyone should take this a lesson-- both the cruiselines AND the passengers have responsibilities.

[H82seaUgo]

Nadeau? Was the captain French?

 

that was the reporter's name. don't want to start posting nonsense statements on a topic so serious.

[H82seaUgo]

I would not exactly call 16 degrees C (61 degrees F) "freezing", although not comfortable at all.

 

 

lol. you should see my kids making fun of me getting into my pool when it goes below 80°. :eek:

[KitchenKitten]

Been disheartened over the years with each succeeding cruise how muster seemed to get more and more lax, eventually leading to not needing to bring the life jackets. And where silence was maintained, they started seeming like social events.

 

My thought was, should an incident arise, one should know how to put a jacket on, as well as fully versed as to what to do.

 

I personally hope this is a wake up call. To hear the one eyewitness report of not knowing what to do scares me. Last I need is to find myself behind someone who doesn't know what to do.

 

If there was a 'like' button on here, this post would get a click from me!

[big_duck]

 

I may get flamed for saying this but maybe there should be no alcohol served until after muster. I want to know if something happens I am able to do what is needed in case of emergency. I am not drinking.

 

Here is a thought, bring passengers on board in groups of 100, take them directly to an area set up to teach the procedures including the donning of lifejackets, point out that their actual muster station is on their S&S cards then turn them loose on the bars and buffet.

[H82seaUgo]

Good point and history backs you up. In 1956 when the Italian liner Andrea Doria collided with the liner Stockholm off Nantucket the Andrea Doria took a dramatic list which rendered half the lifeboats useless for evacuation just as happened to Costa Concordia. The first survivors to arrive aboard the Stockholm from the Doria were white jacketed dining room stewards. It wouldn't surprise me to learn of similar crew reactions in the days ahead.

 

i remember reading had the two ships had stayed together, the AD would have not sunk.

[Cruise Cat]

Running aground in a well traveled route is a mortal sin. Cruise ships should NEVER run aground. Worst case scenario, stop and drop the anchor if the ship controls are compromised until repairs can be made. Since no distress call was sent the captain must have thought the situation was under control. His bad. The safety drill; I get irritated at the dumb @#%$# that laugh, talk, and pay no attention to instructions. Bringing the life vests (IMO) is unnecessary. Most cruisers are repeat. People should check them in their cabin and if a newbie put it on. This incident should be a wake-up call for a lot of folks.

 

 

That is what is bothering me. From the Sea Diamond incident and numuerous groundings up in alaska, we have heard that the captain is not allowed to try to free the ship with passengers on board. Why then, did they wait so long to sound the evacuation when they would have been required to evacuate all the passengers anyway? These incidents are preventable and when they happen, there ware ways to mitigate things.