On Summit Now ...and Never Again!

[WeBeCruisin']

I don't quite understand why everyone is jumping so heavily on the OP because he wasn't wearing a jacket. He said he was wearing dress pants, a dress shirt and dress shoes, so it's not as though he was wearing slobwear. Does it really disturb your cruise that badly that a man is dressed nicely but without a jacket? Is so, then you people need to get a life!

 

Luv2cruise, no one is jumping on The Admiral because he wasn't wearing a jacket. People are disagreeing with his rant about how he should have the absolute right to wear clothing in violation of the dress code, simply because he wants to, and he thinks his personal desires are more imporant than the desires of the cruise line and the 98% of the passengers who support adherence to the dress code in several polls on these boards. We would not have even known what he wore, if he hadn't started ranting and raving about how horrible Celebrity was for enforcing their dress code, which he had chosen to think was beneath him.

 

Allen

[toban]

A suit jacket does not mean "nice short sleeves". Whats hard to understand? We all know the policy before we board the ship.

[WeBeCruisin']

2 - There is no need to have a stash of jackets on hand for those who are improperly dressed. What is needed in terms of evening attire is known prior to packing your bags and leaving home.

.

 

If The Admiral needed for Celebrity to provide a jacket for him, then he obviously thought that his "dressy" shirt, pants, and shoes were adequate for formal night, also. I think The Admiral did indeed have a jacket for formal night, but was using his "stash of jackets" ploy to gain more supporters and sympathy.

 

As to his describing himself as being "well-dressed", I grew up in Oklahoma and all my relatives were bonafide rednecks and, to them, any pants which aren't jeans are "dress" pants, any shirt with a collar and long sleeves is a "dress" shirt, and any shoes which lace up are "dress" shoes. Some of my Bubba cousins would think they were very dressed up and would look like male Minnie Pearls.

 

Allen

[WeBeCruisin']

If fully 50% of the men were not wearing jackets on informal night, then maybe it's time for Celebrity to re-examine their policy. Princess and RCCL did away with informal nights because it was obvious that that's what the majority of passengers wanted (as evidenced by how few actually dressed according to the dress code on informal nights). Celebrity can either dig in their heels and staunchly enforce their dress codes as this maitre'd did (and alienate 50% of their passengers in the process) or they can realize that times are a changing and change with them.

 

Great logic, Luv2! You would also agree, then, that if "fully 50%" (that's a lot like "half", isn't it?) of Americans have decided that it's okay to steal things from their neighbor, then maybe it's time for our law enforcement agencies to re-examine their laws? After all, we don't want them alienating 50% of the townspeople, do we?:rolleyes:

 

Allen

[SoCalGal]

Somehow or other I just get the feeling that we're not hearing the true story of what happened to the 'Admiral'. But, glad to know that Celebrity is attempting to enforce their dress code. He seems like the kind of person that would try to wear cutoffs or a tee shirt to my golf course because he can afford the green fees. So sorry Admiral, rules are rules.

[WeBeCruisin']

"On informal nights, men are requested to wear a jacket, shirt and tie, while women may want to wear a suit or dress".

 

For what it's worth in my dictionary, required and requested have entirely different definitions. .

 

So, if you're in my home and I "request" that you not smoke your cigar, you have the right to ignore my "request" because I can't "require" you not to stink up my house? I guess ( in a jeans and chairhog sort of way) that makes perfect sense. Sigh.:(

 

Allen

[WeBeCruisin']

Mind you, he was dressed very appropriately for dinner every night, but no one turned him away at dinner.

Mary

 

Sorry, Mary, but if he didn't wear a jacket on Informal Nights, he was not dressed appropriately. And if he just wore a jacket, rather than a tuxedo or dark suit, he wasn't really dressed appropriately on Formal Nights, either. :(

 

Allen

[The Admiral]

OK, read most of the replies to my post and here are some quick points until I return and elaborate in more detail:

 

1.) CDS was a nice experience I was surprised the only negative comments I can make is that the Intros. are too long so you do not get to enjoy the characters as much....white night is ok but Im glad they are not charging because its just a disco/dancing with the characters walking around nothing more. If X can continue to make changes and meybe consider an actual show...then even more pax will be happy.

 

2.) those of you who are chewing my head off, NO, I DO NOT THINK I AM ABOVE THE DRESS CODE BUT KEEP THIS IN MIND:

 

The newsletter clearly requests that you be guided by the dress code. however, it does not say you will be kicked out if you dont. IT DOES HOWEVER SAY THAT IF YOU WEAR JEANS, TSHIRTS OR SHORTS YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN. I WAS NOT IN THAT CATEGORY, UNLESS I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ENGLISH AND DRESS PANTS, DRESS SHOES AND A LONG SLEEVED DRESS SHIRT ARE CONSIDERED JEANS AND SHORTS ? :-)

 

3.) The "dress code" was enforced selectively and pax that were wearing the clearly prohibited items named above were allowed in and not me and about 20 others (from what staff told us)

 

4.) its not that we were asked to leave, but the way in which it was done! you can enforce the policy without using a nasty tone and mistreating the hand that feeds you.

 

5.) It was an INFORMAL night, and two points on this:

 

informal if you understand english properly is the OPPOSITE of formal so I dont care what the policy is, they should at least use proper english and call it a Semi-Formal night as other lines do.

 

Also, I am all for enforcement of the "policy" ON FROMAL NIGHTS because I agree you dont want to be with your spouse (as I Said before, if you read it all) and have some people at your or a neighboring table in jeans et all...

 

on other nights that are not formal I think you should enforce the jeans, tshirt, etc.. provisions but otherwise, if people are dressed in substantial compliance with the code you should not harrass and embarrass them.

 

thanks for the feedback all...thats what makes this board so great...

[geoherb]

Welcome back to the boards, Admiral. I wouldn't mind seeing X get rid of informal nights. But I disagree with your assumption that informal is the opposite of formal in this context, especially since X defines it clearly on the website, in the precruise docs, and in the dailies.

 

I noticed a number of men without jackets on the one informal night we had on our holiday cruise on the Century. My DH was one of them. He wore dress pants, long-sleeved dress shirt, and tie. Some men did not bother to wear ties with their dress shirts, and a few were in polo and other casual shirts. The dress codes weren't enforced regarding jeans in the dining room, but I did not see anyone in shorts or swim suits.

[mp3jrick]

Have you nothing better to do with your vacation?

 

 

My God man, anyone of us at home would gladly be where you are right now,

relax and enjoy yourself, even if it is on pizza and beer.

 

Heart attacks for everyone!!!:D

[johnacon]

Some of you people are ridiculous. How does someone not wearing a sport coat "cheapen" your meal? Did your food taste different? Did the words coming out of people's mouths around you sound different?

 

Its weird, but the same people who deride others for writing about how the ship's carpet was sorta worn turn around and criticize people for not wearing a sport coat but otherwise dressing nicely.

 

All of you who preach that a cruise is supposed to be relaxing need to relax and not worry about what people wear.

[luv2cruise99]

Great logic' date=' Luv2! You would also agree, then, that if "fully 50%" (that's a lot like "half", isn't it?) of Americans have decided that it's okay to steal things from their neighbor, then maybe it's time for our law enforcement agencies to re-examine their laws? After all, we don't want them alienating 50% of the townspeople, do we?:rolleyes:

 

Allen[/quote']

 

Not quite the same thing. A cruiseline is in business to make money. They make money by booking their ships. They book their ships by pleasing their passengers. They please their passengers by making policies that reflect the wants and need of those passengers.

 

If they start turning away 50% of their passengers at the dining room door because they are not dressed up to dress code, they have just pissed off half their customers! Not a way to do business.

 

Now you may say that they pleased the other 50% with their policy. Probably not true, though, as we will never know how many of that 50% dressed appropriately because they thought they had to, not because they wanted to.

 

But even if we assume that the other 50% all really LOVE the dress code and wish that Celebrity would enforce it, it would still be business suicide for Celebrity to do so on a wide-scale level. The 50% who LOVE the dress code are not likely to stop booking Celebrity because of low enforcement, whereas the 50% turned away at the dining room door because of over-the-top enforcement efforts definitely are not likely to return. Unless they have some way of making up that lost 50% customer-base, they won't remain in business for long.

 

Celebrity's tactic seems to be to keep the dress code as-is to please the "I like to dress up" folks, while at the same time keeping enforcement low to please the "I don't like to dress up" folks. This sends mixed messages and causes the problems complained of by the OP (which if it were to happen on a wide-scale level would not be good for Celebrity's business). This tactic also causes hard feelings by those who see the dress codes not being uniformly enforced.

 

I think a better tactic would be to make a subtle change to the dress code to reflect the changing times and attitudes of their passengers. I small thing such as alleviating the requirement that men wear jackets on informal night is not likely to cause the "I like to dress up" people to defect the cruiseline or to ruin anybody's cruise experience. The men would still be required to dress nicely in dress pants and shirt, just with the jacket being optional (have you ever noticed how many of those jackets just end up hanging on the back of a chair anyway?). This reflects the reality of what 50% of the men are already doing (based on my observation on three Celebrity cruises) and would free Celebrity's staff to spend their enforcement efforts on the small percentage who are "way out there" and don't even attempt to dress nicely. Turning away one slob in jeans and Nascar t-shirt would probably do more to please the people who like to dress up than turning away 10 nicely dressed men with no jacket.

 

By the way, you compare a trivial matter like cruiselines' dress code policy with something as serious as law enforcement and you think there's something wrong with my logic?

[lisiamc]

 

The 50% who LOVE the dress code are not likely to stop booking Celebrity because of low enforcement

 

I don't LOVE the dress code, but I do abide by it, and I enjoy the ambience it creates, and yeah, if Celebrity lets the dress code slide too much, I will start looking for another cruise line. I can find "all casual, all the time" lots of places. I want something a little more special. It's the nicely dressed passengers that I want to sail with.

[Ma Bell]

So according to your philosophy all cruiselines should be the same. There's no room for one that still believes it's a nice thing to dress for dinner a few nights. I'm well aware of the problem the employees have trying to enforce a dress code because if they do they are accused of being rude and reported to their superiors.

 

We just returned from Infinity and I had an in depth conversation about this very thing with the food and beverage and restaurant managers. I told them they really need to decide to go one way or the other. When they don't enforce the dress code they are alienating many of their regular cruisers who seem to enjoy a Celebrity cruise because they do try to maintain a more traditional atmosphere. When they do, there will be some people who won't book because they can't stand the thought of trying to look nice for a couple of nights of their lives. Celebrity needs to decide what they want to be and then stand firm on their policies. I just want to know what to expect. If they decide they don't care how people dress, fine. Then I can make my decision as to whether it's the kind of cruise I'm looking for. I've been under the impression that if I wanted a cruise where everyone dresses as they please there are plenty of them available, but it seems that many of the posters here think they should all be the same and there's no room for a cruiseline for those who think it's a nice experience to dress for dinner occasionally.

 

I for one hope they do enforce the dress code, but I'm well aware that there are many who don't. When you travel around the world it's very easy to pick out the Americans. Though many are still well groomed and well dressed, you see many who look as if they are going to empty the garbage. It's not a question of money either, it's just an I don't care attitude.

[nynewfies]

The complaint that some people managed to get into the dining room dressed the same as the Admiral (or perhaps not even as nicely as he felt he was) reminds me of what a highway patrolman once said in response to a motorist who complained that "everybody else was speeding too - why did you just pull me over?". The cop asked the guy if he ever went fishing. The guy said sure. The patrolman then asked, "Ever catch 'em all?'

[luv2cruz123]

Yes ,I agree the enforcement of dress code( I just got off 4/6/05 Constellation sailing)for the first time I have ever seen after 10 Celebrity cruises was NOT enforced all the time in the dining room.I like the enforcement of the dress code but agree that single people some yes and other no is crazy.I saw t shirts and jeans on informal nite while I was all dressed up to code and no one said or did anything to these other passengers about it which really ruined the ambiance for me of the evening.It was the poorest dressed crowd I have ever seen after 20 cruises I have sailed.Before RCCL took over I remember that I was not even allowed into high tea in the main dining room in a split skirt or long shorts ,only a dress but now that RCCl is onboard the enforcement seems to be uneven at best.

[katiel53]

I don't think that anyone needs to be treated rudely, and I don't know what was said to the Admiral. It's all a matter of interpretation. I do think that Celebrity needs to stick to it's dress code and not allow people who don't wear the required clothes to dinner, or they need to change to all casual nights with two formal nights on a seven day cruise. To enforce the rules sporadically makes no sense. I am also annoyed, not on this thread, but on others where people give the it's my vacation and I will wear what I want. There are many cruise lines and those who want to wear what they want, should go to ones who allow that. The different cruise sites let you know up front what the dress codes are, so if you're idea of dressing up is not what the line says, then find another one. I am not saying Celebrity is elite, but it's my favorite line and being dressed up for a few evenings makes me happy, although my husband doesn't feel the same way. He does dress appropriately to make me happy. Lucky me!

 

Katie

[akysmom]

 

Its weird, but the same people who deride others for writing about how the ship's carpet was sorta worn turn around and criticize people for not wearing a sport coat but otherwise dressing nicely.

 

All of you who preach that a cruise is supposed to be relaxing need to relax and not worry about what people wear.

 

Why not just CRUISE WITH ANOTHER LINE if you don't like Celebrity's dress code. Find one where you do like the dress code. That's what most of the posts are about. My husband does not "like" to dress up but he knows he must on our upcoming Celebrity cruise. Else he wouldn't be going. It's really not about whether dressing up is right or wrong in general but whether or not we choose to follow the "guidelines" provided by the cruise line.:confused:

[Ericknow32]

First I would like to commend The Admiral for responding. It takes allot of guts to go through and respond to all of these posts ripping him apart. Plus it wasn't free.

 

In his fallow up Admiral made a good point regarding the names of the nightly attire. Informal can be confusing.

 

From Webster's Dictionary

 

Informal: 1) conducted or carried out without formality or ceremony

2) Characteristic of or appropriate to ordinary, casual, or familiar use

 

This is clearly different than Celebrity's definition. Celebrity should change the phrase informal to semi-formal. Then I would feel more comfortable with Celebrity throwing people out of the dinning room on that particular night.

[dakrewser]

From Webster's Dictionary

 

Informal: 1) conducted or carried out without formality or ceremony

2) Characteristic of or appropriate to ordinary, casual, or familiar use

 

This is clearly different than Celebrity's definition. Celebrity should change the phrase informal to semi-formal. Then I would feel more comfortable with Celebrity throwing people out of the dinning room on that particular night.

 

You know, they could call it Monkey-formal, wouldn't matter, because they DEFINE THE ACCEPTIBLE ATTIRE!

 

Wear it, get in, don't wear it and chance getting tossed. No anbiquity, no Webster's needed.

[wtevrfltsurbt]

Sorry, but I think it is hilarious that people are beating a dead horse here!

The Admiral can interpret this any way he wants to, it really won't change a thing! Some comments can be subjective as to the dress code, for example:

If your Doctor says "take 2 asprin and call me in the morning" He COULD mean "take 2 asprin, dance a jig, touch your toes and sing a song, then call me in the morning" after all, HE DID NOT SPECIFY WHAT HE MEANT! (was I suppose to ingest them?:rolleyes: )

There is no room for that nonsense with the dress code on X, it CLEARLY states WHAT to wear and WHEN TO WEAR IT!

 

 

You know, they could call it Monkey-formal, wouldn't matter, because they DEFINE THE ACCEPTIBLE ATTIRE!

 

Wear it, get in, don't wear it and chance getting tossed. No anbiquity, no Webster's needed.

[WeBeCruisin']

This reflects the reality of what 50% of the men are already doing (based on my observation on three Celebrity cruises)

By the way, you compare a trivial matter like cruiselines' dress code policy with something as serious as law enforcement and you think there's something wrong with my logic?

 

On MY three Celebrity cruise, luv2cruise, I saw about 90 percent of the men wearing jackets on Informal Nights, and about half wearing suits with ties. I would have suggested that we each maybe see what we want to see to fit our agenda, but there have been several recent polls on these boards which show that 98 per cent of the passengers respect the dress code and follow it. Now, if you would be kind enough to show me YOUR poll results, we'll all be grateful.

 

My law enforcement analogy was intended to show you how ridiculous your "logic" could be if applied to other situations. Your description of the cruise lines' dress code requirements as "trivial" reveals much of the problem the majority of the rest of us have with your type of mindset.

 

Allen

[WeBeCruisin']

From Webster's Dictionary

Informal: 1) conducted or carried out without formality or ceremony

2) Characteristic of or appropriate to ordinary, casual, or familiar use

This is clearly different than Celebrity's definition.

 

Erick, Erick, Erick. The next time you sail on the Webster Cruise Line, please use their definition. When you cruise on Celebrity Cruise Line, however, you should use their definition, which is clearly defined for you. Also, I'm sorry, but the word is "follow", not "fallow". The first 50 times I saw it, I tried to tell myself it was a typo, but now it's really bugging me. Sorry.:(

 

Allen

[johnacon]

Why not just CRUISE WITH ANOTHER LINE if you don't like Celebrity's dress code. Find one where you do like the dress code. That's what most of the posts are about. My husband does not "like" to dress up but he knows he must on our upcoming Celebrity cruise. Else he wouldn't be going. It's really not about whether dressing up is right or wrong in general but whether or not we choose to follow the "guidelines" provided by the cruise line.:confused:

 

 

I'm confused where in my post I stated that I didn't like celebrity's dress code. Lord knows I've scoured it and I can't find a hint of that anywhere.

 

The point is, although you can't seem to understand it, is that for people to be upset about what other people wear and to say it somehow cheapened the experience or destroyed the ambiance need to relax and quit worrying about what other people wear. The last cruise I was on (RC if you are wondering) I was about the only person at my dinner table that didn't wear jeans every night. I know this may sound shocking to some of you, but the way people were underdressed didn't alter the taste of my food or make the conversations with people around me any less pleasant.

[mari10]

On MY three Celebrity cruise' date=' luv2cruise, I saw about 90 percent of the men wearing jackets on Informal Nights, and about half wearing suits with ties. I would have suggested that we each maybe see what we [i']want [/i]to see to fit our agenda, but there have been several recent polls on these boards which show that 98 per cent of the passengers respect the dress code and follow it. Now, if you would be kind enough to show me YOUR poll results, we'll all be grateful.

Allen

 

Allen,

I saw the same thing. Most men had on jackets, and many men had on a suit and tie. At our table of 8, all the men wore suits and ties.

We're beating a dead horse, but what makes putting on a jacket so difficult?

Mari