On Summit Now ...and Never Again!

[johnacon]

Allen,

I saw the same thing. Most men had on jackets, and many men had on a suit and tie. At our table of 8, all the men wore suits and ties.

We're beating a dead horse, but what makes putting on a jacket so difficult?

Mari

 

 

I'm not trying to ridicule what you said at all, but I think what a lot of people on this board don't get is that a sport jacket is definitely a generational clothing item. I'm 26 and work as a CPA, so every day when I go to work I dress business casual which consists of a button up dress shirt and slacks. This is the same way all of my clients dress. The only situation I have been in where I would need a jacket in the last 10 years would be at dinner on a cruise. There is absolutely no where else I go that I would ever need a sport jacket. If an event calls for something dressier than business casual, I wear a suit.

 

Thats a long winded way to say that I don't know anyone near my age that owns a sport jacket, and no one that I know near my age would ever contemplate owning a sport jacket.

[dakrewser]

The point is, although you can't seem to understand it, is that for people to be upset about what other people wear and to say it somehow cheapened the experience or destroyed the ambiance need to relax and quit worrying about what other people wear.

 

I don't give a hockey puck what people wear. I do, though, care about people following the rules. There are lots of rules aboard cruise ships - some about appearance, some about safety and some about health. I don't want you or anyone else picking and choosing which rules to follow and which to ignore.

 

And, since you don't own a sports jacket, you're quite welcome to wear a suit on informal nights...

[johnacon]

So' date=' if you're in my home and I "request" that you not smoke your cigar, you have the right to ignore my "request" because I can't "require" you not to stink up my house? I guess ( in a jeans and chairhog sort of way) that makes perfect sense. Sigh.:(

 

Allen[/quote']

 

 

Dear Captain Logic,

 

Why don't you "require" people to not smoke in your house instead of "requesting" it? That way if they do light up, you can throw them the hell out. So long as you, or anyone other entity (including a cruiseline) ever request something, don't be too shocked if people decline your request since that is the explicit option given them.

 

So I guess your post made perfect sense (in a completely nonsensical sort of way)

[Ma Bell]

Maybe it's not generational but geographical. I know plenty of people in your age group who own sports coats including my three sons.

[WeBeCruisin']

I'm not trying to ridicule what you said at all, but I think what a lot of people on this board don't get is that a sport jacket is definitely a generational clothing item. Thats a long winded way to say that I don't know anyone near my age that owns a sport jacket, and no one that I know near my age would ever contemplate owning a sport jacket.

 

The use of the word "jacket" on these posts obviously include "blazers", which I constantly see men of all ages wearing in nice restaurants, at holiday open houses, at cocktail parties, etc. etc. My wife and I were in Charleston, SC, this past weekend for the Family Circle Cup women's tennis tournament and two of the restaurants we chose to eat at (the Peninsula Grill and The Woodlands) both mentioned when I made reservations that jackets were required. If you, at 26, are never in a social or entertainment situation where a suit is perhaps too formal, yet a long-sleeved shirt is too informal, then you don't get out very much, dude.:cool:

 

 

Allen

[johnacon]

Thats geographical thing probably a big part of it too then, since if I ever put on a sports jacket in San Antonio I would die of a heat stroke within 20 minutes.

 

Also to the guy above, I guess I don't get out much if the only events I don't go to are the ones where a suit is too formal but a long sleeved shirt is too informal. That made perfect sense.

[mari10]

I'm not trying to ridicule what you said at all, but I think what a lot of people on this board don't get is that a sport jacket is definitely a generational clothing item. I'm 26 and work as a CPA, so every day when I go to work I dress business casual which consists of a button up dress shirt and slacks. This is the same way all of my clients dress. The only situation I have been in where I would need a jacket in the last 10 years would be at dinner on a cruise. There is absolutely no where else I go that I would ever need a sport jacket. If an event calls for something dressier than business casual, I wear a suit.

 

Thats a long winded way to say that I don't know anyone near my age that owns a sport jacket, and no one that I know near my age would ever contemplate owning a sport jacket.

 

Well, I know plenty oif men your age that do own a classic blue blazer. My 2 sons who are younger than you own blazers. Brooks Brothers has been making classic blazers for years. A blue blazer even looks sharp with jeans! Maybe it's a southern thing, but many young men wear sport coats( jackets ) to Sunday Service. Our country club requires jackets at dinner in the main dining room

[WeBeCruisin']

Dear Captain Logic,

 

Why don't you "require" people to not smoke in your house instead of "requesting" it? That way if they do light up, you can throw them the hell out. )

 

Captain Logic? Good point.

 

Dear Private First Class... oops, I mean Private No Class,

In civilized circles people honor other peoples' requests. They don't need to be told that something is "required". That type of demand can be construed as rather arrogant and rude. And in civilized circles, people don't throw "guests" out if they flagrantly disregard their "requests". The classless troglodytical cretin is just never invited back by the host or by any of the other guests.

 

I would blame your ignorance on your age of 26, but all three of my sons have passed that age, and they never had the smarmy, condescending, patronizing, arrogant attitude that you exude, even when they were 26. And all three of my sons own both blazers and sports coats, and know when it is appropriate to wear one, and actually don't even need to be told that it is "requested".

 

XXX OOOO,

Allen

[hdawson]

WeBeCruisin. I've found the traditional Navy Blazer to be the most versitile and useful peice of mens clothing. Most men I know own a navy blazer.

[halos]

I'm not trying to ridicule what you said at all, but I think what a lot of people on this board don't get is that a sport jacket is definitely a generational clothing item. I'm 26 and work as a CPA, so every day when I go to work I dress business casual which consists of a button up dress shirt and slacks. This is the same way all of my clients dress. The only situation I have been in where I would need a jacket in the last 10 years would be at dinner on a cruise. There is absolutely no where else I go that I would ever need a sport jacket. If an event calls for something dressier than business casual, I wear a suit.

 

Thats a long winded way to say that I don't know anyone near my age that owns a sport jacket, and no one that I know near my age would ever contemplate owning a sport jacket.

 

 

I don't find a jacket generational at all. If no one you know that is your age owns a sports jacket, that doesn't mean that other 20-somethings don't. It's just your circle of friends that don't.

This might be a good excuse for you to go out and purchase one. You'd be surprised at how often you'd wear it if you had one.

 

I'm not an X cruiser YET...plan to sail X next though. :D

I've never before had an angry post make me so happy. I am thrilled that X has at least ONE crew member that will enforce the rules....hopefully the rest of them will get in line and do the same.

[kelly-NYC]

I'm not trying to ridicule what you said at all, but I think what a lot of people on this board don't get is that a sport jacket is definitely a generational clothing item. I'm 26 and work as a CPA, so every day when I go to work I dress business casual which consists of a button up dress shirt and slacks. This is the same way all of my clients dress. The only situation I have been in where I would need a jacket in the last 10 years would be at dinner on a cruise. There is absolutely no where else I go that I would ever need a sport jacket. If an event calls for something dressier than business casual, I wear a suit.

 

I've been wanting to say this for months as I read these clothing threads. Maybe it is geographical or generational or both. My husband is a 30 year old corporate attorney in NYC. He owns suits, but no sports jackets. He has absolutely no need to wear one. Each time we go on a cruise, we talk about buying one, but then realize that he would never wear it other than on a cruise. We've looked around and asked his friends who are also in their 30s here in NY and none of them own one or have the need for one either. I even look around when we are out to dinner here in the city and I never see 30ish men in sports jackets except for occasional tourists in the theatre district.

 

Before anyone accuses us of not dressing "properly" on our cruise, he rented a tux on our last cruise. Unfortunatly, they delivered the wrong size. The sleeves were about 4 inches too short, so he had to wear a suit on both formal and informal nights. We know the measurements were correct, he used the same ones for a tux he rented a week before the cruise for a wedding.

K

[johnacon]

Captain Logic? Good point.

 

Dear Private First Class... oops' date=' I mean Private No Class,

In civilized circles people [i']honor [/i]other peoples' requests. They don't need to be told that something is "required". That type of demand can be construed as rather arrogant and rude. And in civilized circles, people don't throw "guests" out if they flagrantly disregard their "requests". The classless troglodytical cretin is just never invited back by the host or by any of the other guests.

 

I would blame your ignorance on your age of 26, but all three of my sons have passed that age, and they never had the smarmy, condescending, patronizing, arrogant attitude that you exude, even when they were 26. And all three of my sons own both blazers and sports coats, and know when it is appropriate to wear one, and actually don't even need to be told that it is "requested".

 

XXX OOOO,

Allen

 

Captain Logic,

 

I'm sorry to hear you don't have the backbone to let people know that they can't smoke in your house.

 

Whats more amazing though, is that you like to hang out with people who would blatantly disregard your requests in your own home.

 

Even if I requested, instead of required, that someone not do something IN MY OWN HOME and they did it anyway, I'm not sure that I'd ever want to be around that person again in any situation. I would also certainly hope that the other guests I had would recognize what was going on and not want to associate with that person either based on their behavior. If not, the whole lot of them could leave with the offender.

 

Please take note that my earlier post was in response to your use of flawed logic in ridiculing someone who simply used definitions of words to prove a point. Again, please remember: anytime you request something of someone, you explicitely leave available the option to deny your request. I'm happy that you have been able to lead a life in "civilized" circles where every single request ever made has been honored. I also hope you are able to stay in your Utopia, because if you ever get outside into the real world where requests, and often even requirements, are denied, you are in for a huge shock.

 

Sincerely,

 

Private no class

[cruising with marti]

HMMMMM

 

I wonder who does not live in the real world, webe or the private??

 

I suspect it may be the private.

 

 

Phil

[Lois R]

yikes:rolleyes: sure is getting nasty around here.

 

I own 3 formal gowns and I never wear them at home;) then again maybe it is a girl thing! I have them in a closet of "Cruise Clothes":D

 

Why would it be hard to have a blazer for cruising? Just curious really.

 

Phil~you know you and Marti are my kind of friends~full class!:D

[Blazerboy]

Would some nice cruise critic person cover me as I dash through this crossfire?:D

 

"Informal" traditionally meant Black Tie with tuxedo jacket, and "Formal" meant White Tie and Tails. Semi-formal is a modern abonimation along the lines of "sort of pregnant.":eek:

 

But, yes, times have changed, and since the women seem to have a better grip on this than the men, let's just have cruise lines say "Black Tie, dark suit optional" or "Coat and tie requested/required." The women will take their cue from that, and the men can't "interpret" formal, informal, or Ugh, semiformal as they see fit. Seems like the only people who might not like this are the feminists, as why should fashion policy focus only on men's clothing? And to that I reply that it's because women are more evolved and don't need instructions on how to dress!:p

[luv2cruise99]

The polls on these boards show only that 98 percent of CRUISE CRITIC READERS WHO CHOOSE TO RESPOND TO THE POLL respect the dress code and follow it. Since CruiseCritic tends to attract a higher percentage of "die-hard" cruisers who care about maintaining a "traditional cruising experience", I think that is to be expected. Onboard ship, I think you'll find many more people who couldn't care less about cruising tradition and are just looking for a nice family vacation.

 

Also, I have only seen polls on CruiseCritic that asks people's opinions on following the dress code and on enforcement issues. I have never seen one that asks for opinions on changing the dress code. For example, how many people would like to see the dress code on Informal night relaxed to make jackets optional.? Or how many would like to see Informal night done away with altogether? I person can respect the dress code and believe that it should be followed and enforced and still wish that it would be changed to better reflect their desires. If enough people would like to see it changed, then it would be in Celebrity's best interest to do so. That is the question that I think Celebrity should be re-examining and deciding upon. I would love to see Celebrity do such a survey, although it would have to be more far reaching than just CruiseCritic to have any accuracy.

 

Regardless, I don't need a poll to report my observations. I observed the people around me and noticed that about 50% of men were wearing a jacket and 50% weren't, just as you looked around and observed 90% were wearing jackets on your cruises. Perhaps different itineraries, cruise length, time of year, etc. attracts a different type of cruising passenger and that would explain the difference in observations.

 

And I'm sorry, but your law enforcement analogy was just plain ridiculous. Stealing is wrong and it will be wrong even if 99% of the people decide to do it. It's not something that can be voted upon. Whereas all businesses re-examine and change their policies all the time to reflect the changing needs of their clientele. They wouldn't stay in business if they didn't change to meet the needs and desires of their clients. Attitudes toward dress change constantly. It only makes sense that any cruiseline would re-evaluate their policies occassionally to keep up with their passengers changing attitudes.

 

And cruiseline dress codes are trivial when compared to the life and death issues of law enforcement.

 

On MY three Celebrity cruise' date=' luv2cruise, I saw about 90 percent of the men wearing jackets on Informal Nights, and about half wearing suits with ties. I would have suggested that we each maybe see what we [i']want [/i]to see to fit our agenda, but there have been several recent polls on these boards which show that 98 per cent of the passengers respect the dress code and follow it. Now, if you would be kind enough to show me YOUR poll results, we'll all be grateful.

 

My law enforcement analogy was intended to show you how ridiculous your "logic" could be if applied to other situations. Your description of the cruise lines' dress code requirements as "trivial" reveals much of the problem the majority of the rest of us have with your type of mindset.

 

Allen

[cruising with marti]

LOL Blazer, your such a smooth talker,and you did make it through the cross fire:D

 

 

Hi Lois, your words are just too kind, but keep it up, I like to be stroked:D

 

 

 

Phil

[hdawson]

luvtocruise. The market place will decide the dress standards, as it should. Not polls. Those that don't feel comfortable with the dress standards on one line may choose another line if it's that important. No business wants to be just a clone of other lines.

[ccletzgo]

if formal night were truly traditional formal attire, then women should be requested to wear gowns. No "little Black dress's"

Can you imagine our first lady wearing a little black dress on inauguration night?

Women get away with Pant suits, jump suits, dresses, skirts, ALOT. Actually I am seeing less and less evening gowns now days. The dark suit works a lot better with alot of the outfits that women are wearing. If I were to choose to wear an eve gown, I would insist DH wear a tux.

It drove me nuts when my daughter was dressed to the hilt in a beaded gown for a prom, and the guy showed up in a shirt and tie. Or I see a man in a tux and the women in slacks and a blouse. I dont care if people dont dress the dress code, just match as a couple please.......

[luv2cruise99]

Yes, that was my point all along! The marketplace will decide, but if Celebrity starts refusing dining room entry to the 50% of men not wearing jackets (based on MY observations, other observations may vary), then they had better have a way of making up those lost passengers. That was the only point I was ever trying to make.

 

luvtocruise. The market place will decide the dress standards, as it should. Not polls. Those that don't feel comfortable with the dress standards on one line may choose another line if it's that important. No business wants to be just a clone of other lines.

[greeneg]

Dear Captain Logic,

 

Why don't you "require" people to not smoke in your house instead of "requesting" it? That way if they do light up, you can throw them the hell out. So long as you, or anyone other entity (including a cruiseline) ever request something, don't be too shocked if people decline your request since that is the explicit option given them.

 

So I guess your post made perfect sense (in a completely nonsensical sort of way)

 

I DO require non-smoking in my house. If you want to smoke then you go outside. If is is raining, then you have a certain choice to make. BUT, you do not have the option of smoking in my house.

 

Celebrity is very upfront and clear as to what constitutes proper attire in the dining room: it's published all over the place and I suspect that if you were still in doubt, you could easily call either the service desk or the dining room and ask. I bet that they would tell you and they wouldn't be rude about it either.

 

This is not rocket science, people.

[johnacon]

I wouldn't broadcast your requirement around here; you might not get invited to certain people's "civilized" get togethers.

 

The argument started out about Celebrity stating on their website that on informal nights that jackets are "requested" and the difference between "requested" and "required".

 

Requesting soemthing doesn't make it a rule, a requirement does.

[birders]

IT DOES HOWEVER SAY THAT IF YOU WEAR JEANS, TSHIRTS OR SHORTS YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN.

 

 

Yup, and these three items were probably the ONLY ones specifically mentioned as "not allowed" because management thought that people might show up in jeans, tshirts or shorts on CASUAL night, turning the main dining room into an atmosphere that was not the desired one. I'm sure that when the dress code "requests" (which IS the genteel way of saying, "do this!") were written, it never occurred to them that people wouldn't comply.

[luv2cruise99]

Then I wonder why they didn't say "we request that you not wear jeans, t-shirts or shorts"?

 

Yup, and these three items were probably the ONLY ones specifically mentioned as "not allowed" because management thought that people might show up in jeans, tshirts or shorts on CASUAL night, turning the main dining room into an atmosphere that was not the desired one. I'm sure that when the dress code "requests" (which IS the genteel way of saying, "do this!") were written, it never occurred to them that people wouldn't comply.

[Gimpster]

Remember when we'd get 'dressed up' to fly somewhere? Nowadays the airport looks to be populated by the denizens of yesterday's bus stations. Times have changed, haven't they?

 

When I fly now, I dress casually. I can change with the times when it makes sense. When I'm in the dining room aboard ship, I've the expectation that others will follow the rules, expectations, or protocol of the published dress code. Not only does it not seem to be too complicated to me, but also minimally polite and considerate.

 

But times have changed. We're individually 'special', and the rules are made for keeping other folks in check. They certainly can't apply to me, because I've been encouraged to do my own thing. I'm okay, you're okay.

 

I may be just an anachronistic old f*rt, but it seems to me that if you don't have enough pride and self respect to dress and act appropriately you should at least do so out of consideration for others.