Observations from my Liberty Cruise...I'm soooo glad to be back home!!!

[funfamilyof6]

Picklebongo, thank you for your review of your cruise and for sharing your terrible experience with us. My following comments are not meant negatively towards you.

 

This entire thread definitely has me concerned...hopefully many lessons learned!

 

Some disabled people are not mentally prepared to be by themselves in certain situations. This situation, being on a big ship and alcohol being involved, is certainly such a situation. This young woman could have been raped!

 

A young disabled person was yelled at for a situation she should have not been put in in the first place! Thank goodness being missing for 18 hours was the worst of it. :(

[Baylee]

I have to hand it to the OP for doing what she did. It takes a person with a special heart to work with the mentally challenged/handicapped.

 

Amen to that!

[Baylee]

Can you really fault that waiter and call it a complaint that made your cruise bad? An accident, such as this can happen anywhere - from the hole in the wall diner to an upscale 5 star restaurant in the heart of Hollywood - it happens. I'm sure the waiter was probably embarrassed and felt horrible, but he/she is human and we all have faults. I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit like nit-picking to me. So far I have read nothing in your review up until this point that would become a huge negative to me and ruin my cruise.

 

OP didn't say it ruined her cruise .. just noted that it happened. But, had I been the one that had a tray of food dumped on me ... it would most certainly would have been a defining point of whether I had a good time or not.

[funfamilyof6]

Can you really fault that waiter and call it a complaint that made your cruise bad? An accident, such as this can happen anywhere - from the hole in the wall diner to an upscale 5 star restaurant in the heart of Hollywood - it happens. I'm sure the waiter was probably embarrassed and felt horrible, but he/she is human and we all have faults. I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit like nit-picking to me. So far I have read nothing in your review up until this point that would become a huge negative to me and ruin my cruise.

 

I don't think picklebongo was being nit-picky at all and I actually had to re-read the section that you were commenting about. If anything, it makes us all think twice when that big food tray comes by!

[LEXIpoo]

& take this from someone that was under the age of 21 just 2 years ago, it's EASY as a young woman to get people to buy you drinks..so you can't blame OP for her drinking.

[5waldos]

& take this from someone that was under the age of 21 just 2 years ago, it's EASY as a young woman to get people to buy you drinks...

 

just on a lighter note- it's not so difficult as an older woman to get people to buy you drinks either:p

[LEXIpoo]

just on a lighter note- it's not so difficult as an older woman to get people to buy you drinks either:p

 

oh trust me, I know :p I was just referring to the young woman that OP was talking about. But it's not hard for ANY woman ANY age to get free drinks!

[Newbie41]

The OP was concerned about the 2 disabled women getting off the ship without her so she had their S&S cards flagged. This was a great idea. This should be a warning to all parents cruising with teenagers to have their cards flagged. If I was cruising with teens that is something I would definitely do. I do realize that some teens are very responsible and can be allowed to get off at a port and will act responsibly and return on time, but there are many teens that aren't responsible.

[hermitstyle]

I apologize to you that my thread title was incorrect

 

Cruise Thread: How Two Young Ladies I took on a cruise wore me out...

 

but actually it was about more than that, I had what to me were valid concerns about the food, shows, clocks, etc., but oh well...

I didn't say it was incorrect. It was merely a misleading title with a misleading first post. It seems your biggest problem with your cruise was how your two client's (well, seems more like one of them) wore you out and the Security issue that subsequently came with one of your clients. This board is quick to jump on people who pick out every negative thing that can be found on their cruise, and when I read the thread title and the first post, I, along with several other people got the same impression, and your second post included more negative things, and then your final big post actually had the root of your problem/biggest dissatisfaction with the cruise. Yes, I'm sure the other things were bothersome to you, but it was ultimately piling on top of the problem you had already had with one of your client's and the ship Security.

 

You seemed not to pleased about people saying that you were an attention seeker, drama-filled, complainer, posts/threads got weirder, etc. and I was merely just pointing out that a thread title or even first post change might have curtailed a lot of the unnecessary comments about you and your threads

[boaterette]

Thanks Pickle for posting your comments. And please disregard those people posting stupid comments. Just remember that you can't fix stupid. Kudos to you for taking the two on the cruise. You can bet that most of those posting rude comments sure wouldn't have done so.

[cdamion]

Appreciate the time writing the review Pickle. It was nice of you taking them on it. Maybe you can find yourself a nice uneventful cruise to go on where you don't have to worry about taking care of anybody and just relax.

 

I like the moment you wrote about where one of the girls asked if it was a dream - that had to be a great moment. Over time, that will probably stick out more than the disappearance.

 

Don't let the haters on here get to you. Funny how some of those who act insulted and upset are the very ones that are rude and obnoxious in other threads.

[cathyoo]

I believe the title of this thread is appropriate. Pickle was happy to be home from the cruise. If you made some assumption about her reasons to be happy well that's on you not her.

 

However, my concern is what happened during those 18 hours. I agree that taking disabled people on a cruise is a challenge. But that was something Pickebongo chose to do. Once she make that choice she was responsible for their well being. If they were not allowed off the ship without her they should not have been allowed to wander the ship without her.

 

If I was that young girl's family I would be furious that the person I trusted to watch my child would have allowed such behavior. Does this young lady go to bars at home?

 

The whole situation is so scary to me and my heart hurts for that young lady.

[H82seaUgo]

I have noticed more waiters dropping trays/plates etc in the last few months. I would guess this has to do with them being responsible for more tables and rushing more.

 

we witnessed this a bunch of years ago on a disney cruise. the waiter dropped the tray on a young boy. it's heart wrenching.

[H82seaUgo]

I cannot even imagine the stress. I would have wanted to tie her to my side. Oh My!!!

I'm glad to know security and the Captain took it so serious.

 

what hits me so odd is that missing passengers are always met with suspected overboard events, followed by a return of all passengers returning to their cabin, with a total passenger count.

 

it's amazing to me that this proceedure was not followed, but not that the captain was so angry. i wonder if that chief is not already exiled back to india.

[H82seaUgo]

Pickle, this was just wrong and I would report it to Carnival immediately. I hope that you wrote down his name.

 

This security officer was NOT entitled to ream out this young lady - no way, no how. His department did not follow protocol and he was told that by the captain. This did not give him the authority to take it all out on her.

 

Please don't let this incident slide. It was wrong on so many levels.

 

Please note: this is my mama bear side coming out. I have a special need's child and if ANYONE ever treated my daughter in such a manner, it would be the last thing they'd do ... ever!

 

i agree. this kid did nothing to warrant any screaming act.

 

however, i I'm still in shock that the op did not contact someone found after she initiated a "missing persons report". it should have been the second thing she did, and apparently did not take the report seriously.

[pe4all]

Picklebongo- as a parent of a special needs dd23, only those who live or work with these special needs adults really know the trials and tribulations they, and we go thru. You are a very special person to take them on a trip of their lifetime. DD23 has been cruising with us since age 4. She is sweet, cute, looks "normal," but each cruise we take with her reminds us that she not only has strengths, and moreso has weaknesses we have to protect her from. I get her a green muster bracelet each cruise. Yes, it is just for children, but if she got separated from us (she is totally responsible to be left in the cabin by herself if she doesn't want to go to a show/piano bar/casino) I would hope someone would help her. Her day program takes participants on a cruise each year. This year they invited her, but I wasn't comfortable with her being in her own cabin, unsupervised, with a ratio of 5:1 consumers to staff on the ship. (and the Concordia didn't help!) Ignore those who don't walk a mile in our shoes.:)

[RuthlessBoss]

what hits me so odd is that missing passengers are always met with suspected overboard events, followed by a return of all passengers returning to their cabin, with a total passenger count.

 

it's amazing to me that this proceedure was not followed, but not that the captain was so angry. i wonder if that chief is not already exiled back to india.

Not only procedure not being followed, but how/why did the OP not insist on an overhead announcement of sorts. Yes, it was a day at sea, so no port to exit to. But, there WAS a side of the ship she could have fallen off!! My God, 18 hours with this passenger not in sight? And no follow up? What if this girl had actually fallen OFF the ship? Explain that to her parents that no one had even looked for her! I would have been frantic if someone in my group was gone even for a few hours!!

[H82seaUgo]

Pickelbongo - to possibly stop any disparaging comments about how you are drama filled with your reviews and such - it might have been better to aptly title your problem with the cruise about how the two young lady's you took with you wore you out - not that you were glad to be home and subsequently point out negatives of your cruise. I think this is why you got so many comments and people assuming that this was going to be an "I'm going to point out every wrong thing that happened" thread.

 

i fully believe any op has the right to write any way they choose.

 

however, if i posted something like "i put the kids to bed after i extinguished the fire in my stateroom" and moved on without details, i know, as a writer, what i'm setting up.

 

the op should have disclosed the details of her hot topics/issues if she didn't want /expect futher clarification.

 

and again, her right. it's her review/experience.

[MamaParrotHead]

SOP. A serious talking to by security, police, whoever, is often called for and can make people come around and take notice. I would have been standing back and cheering him on if he had been lecturing my son- even if the language wasn't fully understandable the tone certainly was!

 

I totally agree.

[vacruizer]

Actually political correctness aside using the word retarded in reference to mental capacity is accepted in medical language. It is used all the time by Doctors I work with in clinical settings. Using it to degrade another person however is quite another thing...

 

You've been on 9 cruises PB you know there are no clocks in the cabins. All the other observations are yours to make as it was your cruise and that is what this place is about.

 

As to your situation with the ladies in your charge. I think you are very lucky that the head of security didn't give you a lecture as well, highly irresponsible on so many levels. Not calling to say she was located in her cabin, allowing her to over drink and not keeping careful track of her location. I know that people can slip away, I've raised teens and young adults but she was entrusted to your care and I feel both the captain and the security team had legitimate issues with her and you.

 

Hope you get some rest.

 

I was thinking the same thing. These young women were disabled enough to need their cards flagged to not leave the ship and needed to have their expenses managed by someone else. What were they being allowed to consume that much alcohol for? I don't care if other pax bought them. They needed supervision. Tell the bartenders to cut them off. Keep a closer eye on them and take away the drinks. Or remove them from the situation. This young woman could have been severely taken advantage of while "missing" and intoxicated. Can you imagine what the girl's family would have to say had she been raped in this time? :eek:

 

While we don't know the actual "client" relationship is here specifically, there could be some ethical issues as well. Case worker? Therapist? Tutor? Depending on the position (especially if you work for an agency fo some type) this type trip could be considered an ethical violation as it appears to be paid for by an employee. But we don't know that for sure. If pickle is self-employed she wouldn't have to answer to an employer. I don't mean this as a flame to pickle. But these things have been really bothering me about the situation - maybe because I have family that work with adults with these type of disabilities and know how strict the regulations are about outings and client/provider relationships.

 

I am thankful the young lady is ok. It's scary that the ship didn't follow protocol for a search. But also a good thing that the whole ship didn't have their vacations disrupted in the middle of the night for a "roll call" and possibly turning the ship around to search the waters for a missing person if they hadn't found her.

[seguincruiser]

First thanks for some information I didn't know about, flagging S&S cards so those who need more watching can't get off the ship. As a parent of a special child it is very difficult to find the balance on cruises how much we let him explore on his own and how much he has to be right by our side. Hes almost 12 now and gets about 1/2 hour at a time without us but I am slightly worried the whole time. Pickle I don't believe in lecturing after the fact but have you thought about having this young lady seen at a clinic. She could have been taken advantage of and might not know the consquences (sp?) of the action.

[kyrisong1]

I find it weird that a person comes on this board to share an experience and gets ragged on by a few because her own personal experience doesn't match THEIR experiences and she was supposed to.

 

Pickle,,you did a good thing taking your clients. Karma points. But did I miss why your almost got tossed,,that is my curious question.

I was not ragging on her, but she does have a very dramatic touch to her writing, it's always entertaining.

Her questions are a little different and always seems to spark much difference of opinion. She in fact stopped posting for a while because people were giving negative comments about some of her questions.

Don't shoot the messengers here, just commenting that Pickle sparks some critical thinking with her posts, and not everyone agrees with each other about things.

If you go back and read some of her older posts you will see what I mean.

I actually enjoy reading the different opinions, therefore not being negative, just saying what it is from my view, that there will be drama.

I also believe that she is brave to take these two clients on a cruise, I don't think I would attempt it alone.

Carole

[SnowshoeCat]

Pickle - I hope you got a good night's sleep. I think you deserve big kudos for treating your clients to this cruise. As people have mentioned, there are so many types and levels of disability that I would never suggest or assume how your particular clients need to be handled. Only you know the details of their conditions. You know them best, and I'm sure you did the best you could.

 

I can understand the captain being irate that protocol apparently wasn't followed. I was once on a cruise where they paged a missing passenger every 15-20 minutes through out the night. All night. First the pages went only into the common areas, then into the cabins. We think it turned out to be just a young traveler enjoying spring break in someone else's cabin, but by the next morning, the entire ship was exhausted. Just out of curiosity: If your client had been paged, would she know to answer it? Again, not judging at all, just curious.

[blondietink]

I was thinking the same thing. These young women were disabled enough to need their cards flagged to not leave the ship and needed to have their expenses managed by someone else. What were they being allowed to consume that much alcohol for? I don't care if other pax bought them. They needed supervision. Tell the bartenders to cut them off. Keep a closer eye on them and take away the drinks. Or remove them from the situation. This young woman could have been severely taken advantage of while "missing" and intoxicated. Can you imagine what the girl's family would have to say had she been raped in this time? :eek:

 

While we don't know the actual "client" relationship is here specifically, there could be some ethical issues as well. Case worker? Therapist? Tutor? Depending on the position (especially if you work for an agency fo some type) this type trip could be considered an ethical violation as it appears to be paid for by an employee. But we don't know that for sure. If pickle is self-employed she wouldn't have to answer to an employer. I don't mean this as a flame to pickle. But these things have been really bothering me about the situation - maybe because I have family that work with adults with these type of disabilities and know how strict the regulations are about outings and client/provider relationships.

 

 

I am also questioning this. If there is an agency involved with these young ladies, I would think they would be all over the situation, especially if the young lady that was missing for 18 hours starts to talk to others about her exploits on vacation. I see the words "incident" and "investigation" written all over this, especially if they live in some kind of certified setting. I hope pickle has herself covered in the event of any allegations.

 

The word "client" is generally not used anymore in the developmentally disabled community being replaced by the word "consumer" or "Person served". Self-advocates around here hate the term "client" almost as much as the "r" word.

[halos]

I have to hand it to the OP for doing what she did. It takes a person with a special heart to work with the mentally challenged/handicapped.

Amen to that! God bless her.