So Chair Hogs dont have rights?

[redneony]

Well I would suck it up and move on. Its like General Admission to a concert first come first serve.

 

That's exactly right, until you leave. There's really no point to argue, because while Carnival doesn't enforce it the way they should, the signs are posted everywhere. Your time limit is 30 minutes. Plain and simple.

[CharmedMom]

How can you assault a flip flop?

 

throw it over board? :D

[lizjoemom]

How can you assault a flip flop?

 

 

You could put a smelly foot in it!:D

[BoooBooKitEFk]

A few weeks ago while on the Fascination, I flipped the TV to the lido camera station right around 5:45-6:00am. You would be amazed how many people I saw either walking really fast or running (yes running!) in PJ's, bathrobes, etc., placing their "stuff" on chairs near the pool then sauntering off to parts unknown. I went down around 8 or so to get some coffee and *most* of those chairs still only had "stuff" on them, very few were occupied by actual people. That's just plain rude, I don't care who you are - a flip flop and/or a book on a chair doesn't make it "yours" for the day just because you managed to get to it before someone else.

[RDC1]

Most people aren't in the pool or hot tub for more than 30 minutes at a time. And if you are, you shouldn't have your stuff sitting on the chairs...if you aren't USING it, you DON'T NEED IT!

 

I will sit on the edge of the pool watching the kids in the pool and I do look at the time and I look at a few of the saved chairs. I usually wait about 40 minutes, then they are fair game.

 

If the ships had cubicles or some other place to leave your things wwhile in the pool I would agree with you. However, they don't. The only plance to leave your things when you get up to get in the pool is in your chair. For some reason none of the cruise lines have tried putting some bins within sight of the pool for people to place things when their primary purpose is to use the pool.

 

Of course you also get an interesting sense of entitlement of those that move things. Often they do not want 30 minutes for all of the claims being made here. I have had to yell at people numerous times who have tried to move my things, while I have been in the pool. Often in as little as within the first five minutes of getting into the pool.

 

The battle of holier than though is interesting to watch between the group that feels that they are entitled to save chairs and the group that feels that they are entitled to play judge, jury and executioner. In my opinion both are playing a game of entitlement. Oppostie views, but really the same game.

[sparks1093]

I disagree,, it could take 30 minutes to get lunch if i hit it whenever one else is going. Im not going to get lunch only to jam it down in 10 minutes so someone does not take the chair. i will relax for lunch and then go back

 

also if im not there when you decide to look for a chair doesnt mean my stuff has been on there since 6am and i have not been present.

 

.....just sayin.....................

 

It doesn't need to have been there since 6 a.m., it only needs to be there more than 30 minutes. If you get up to go to lunch, well, you've gone to lunch and should clear your chair unless you are going to be back in less than 30 minutes.

 

I think the big issue here is how do you know how long the person has been gone for and what constitutes a "chair hog". DH and I usually travel alone but have been on cruises with our kids too. If I come to the pool with my daughter and son and we take three chairs, then my son goes to swim in the pool (probably longer than 30 minutes) then the chair that his towel is on, is that chair being "hogged"? Or if we go to get something to eat and my teen daughter stays back to watch the stuff, and the line at the food area is especially long that day and we get back 31 minutes later, does someone have the right to just intimidate my child and remove the stuff from the other two chairs?

 

I always thought that "chair hoggers" were large groups of people (as there are many groups that travel together on these boards), who assign one or two people in their group to go down to the poolside early in the morning and "reserve" chairs with their own towels and sometimes other personal items and wait for the rest of their group. Not couples on their honeymoon or something. Am I wrong?:confused:

 

A chair hog is someone that reserves a chair for more than 30 minutes by putting a towel or other personal belonging on it. They don't have to have done this at 6, or 7, as long as it has been more than 30 minutes. If your family is using a set of chairs and a family member is there watching them then that's not chair hogging (but we will usually only take 2 or 3 chairs for the 7 of us and the family members will take turns with the chairs with DW and myself having priority:)).

[Corntea]

Here is something I teach my preschool students.

 

"If you get up on your feet, someone's bound to take your seat."

 

Now if 3 and 4 year olds can abide by this, why can't adults. Why would ANYONE have the right to hold a seat if their bum isn't using it? First of all, there are not enough deck chairs for every single passenger to have a seat at the same time. Therefore, it's first come, first served.

Imagine a family of four with a loveseat. If Dad puts his towel on the couch, and then goes to work, does that mean only one seat is available to the rest of the family for the entire day? That would be rediculous, and so is holding a chair while you go get a massage or sit in the Lido chairs to eat. One bum should not have the right to more than one seat at a time.

[italianfemmy]

I see two sides to this coin. Everyone doesn't have a friend with them that can hold their seat. So, in my opinion there are 2 sides to this.

 

Side one

The inconsiderate passenger. This is the person that gets up at 6 or 7 in the morning and rushes down to save 1 or more seats with belongings. This individual has no intention of returning until 11 or 12 (5-6 full hours later.) This person deserves to have all of their stuff removed from the chairs and come back to find them occupied.

 

Side two

The wanderer. Not everyone wants to sunbathe the entire day or sit in their chair just to protect it from getting taken. The wanderer has been sitting in their seat for a couple of hours and gets hungry. Decides to go to the buffet and grab some food but leaves their belongings to save their chair with the intention of bringing their food back to the chair and eating. Perhaps the wanderer stops at the Mongolian station where they wait in line for 30-45 minutes. They go back to their chair to find their stuff moved. They had intended to sit out there for several more hours but now there are no empty seats anywhere (hence why theirs was taken.)

 

The wanderer also might decide to take a dip in the pool to cool off and relax. The average time someone spends in a swimming pool is between 20-45 minutes, excluding children who can spend hours. The wanderer leaves a few times to use the restroom and perhaps has to sit, newspaper in hand in the stall for 30 minutes or longer before being able to leave. :-)

 

The results

Regardless of which of these two types you are, the results wind up the same in the eyes of the people who just see a chair appearing empty for longer than a few minutes time. It's hard to know if the person missing is a wanderer or an inconsiderate passenger. Personally, I've never had an issue getting a chair but perhaps that is because I don't like to sit out mid day as I am not a sun soaker. I think the problem lies in the volume of people to deck chairs ratio. It's rare that you see someone say "I wish there were more shops or I wish that the atrium ceiling was higher". It's common to see people complain about not finding a space to sit and lounge. Since the pool deck is usually on Deck 10 or higher, why not end the atrium at deck 9 and expand the pool deck across the atrium and leave that as open air space thus allowing room for more loungers and perhaps even larger swimming pools?

 

At the end of the day, I find it hard to fault people for wanting to save chairs if they're not morning people. I personally couldn't wake up at 6am to save a seat because I'd be sleep walking. But with that said, I am not a morning person and by the time I wake up and go outside to get food at the buffet, all of the loungers are taken. I never want one mid day anyway but if I did want one, I wouldn't be able to have one. Is it fair to people that aren't early risers that they won't have a chair?

 

Which brings me to my next point..

 

Another version of chair hogging

When you see a lobby filled with people waiting to be seated at a land based restaurant and you finish your meal, most people will get up and leave to be courteous and allow others to be seated for dinner. Occasionally, some people will sit with nothing but water glasses in front of them and take up the table for an extra hour or so during prime time for dining and will just chatter. The servers and hostesses will apologize to the people waiting and everyone will think the people still sitting there chatting are being rude and inconsiderate hogging chairs they no longer need when other people would also like to eat.

 

If you're on the pool deck and you've had a chair for hours already and you know there are a limited number of chairs and you see people wandering around, searching desparately with their eyes to find an open seat... does it not become chair hogging for you to keep a chair all day long? Yes, it's not your fault that there aren't enough seats for all of the passengers. And yes you're entitled to spend as much time in the sun as you want. But did we ever stop to think that maybe the people who get up at ridiculously early hours and save seats only to go back to bed do so because in history, they've never been able to get seats mid day due to people refusing to ever get up once they've planted their own behinds?

 

Are only early risers entitled to seats? This has become something that I've become accustomed to over the years. When I attend a movie, there are specific seats I want (I like to be dead center in the middle of the screen both in height and width). In order to get those coveted seats, I have to get to the theater 30-45 minutes early and just sit there in silence until the trailers all start. Otherwise, someone else will have gotten there early and saved the seat for themselves. I don't blame the other person for their preferential desire of premium seating. I blame the theaters for allowing people in that early which started this problem to begin with.

 

This problem occurs in the main show lounges and comedy clubs on the cruise ships also. I don't complain about it. I just get there an hour early to make sure we get good seats. In a way, we're part of the problem. But, if we didn't do it, we would get crappy seats.

 

Again, I find it difficult to really fault the individuals who want seats whether it be at a restaurant or a theater or the sun deck of a cruise ship. Free parking spaces in coveted downtown areas have a 2 hour time limit on them. Perhaps there should be some VIP seating where you can pay extra to have a chair reserved for you the entire day. And the rest of them should be a 1-2 hour time limit since there simply isn't a large enough volume of seats. People hog chairs with their belongings for a reason and while that reason may seem inconsiderate and rude, I think it's also inconsiderate and rude to sit in a chair for an entire day when other people would like a chance to sunbathe and relax as well. But moreso, I think the ships should be designed to accomodate more people in those coveted spots.

[ILUVCRUIZN]

I love to lay in the sun on vacation, coming from Northern Indiana laying in the sun in February is fantastic. I get up kind of early grab some breakfast and then go and find a lounger to sun in. Now I usually do this by around 9 or 9:30 because if I did not I would be one of the poor people walking around looking for a lounger to use. Since I get out kind of early I have seen chairs with crap on them and they have been vacant the whole time I have been laying in the sun which is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours maybe longer meanwhile there are still people walking around looking for loungers. That is just rude and very selfish... If a fellow guest asks me if those loungers are being used I will tell them that I have not seen anyone in them since I have been there so they should be able to use them if they wish... :D

[mommyto3girls:)]

If the ships had cubicles or some other place to leave your things wwhile in the pool I would agree with you. However, they don't. The only plance to leave your things when you get up to get in the pool is in your chair. For some reason none of the cruise lines have tried putting some bins within sight of the pool for people to place things when their primary purpose is to use the pool.

 

Of course you also get an interesting sense of entitlement of those that move things. Often they do not want 30 minutes for all of the claims being made here. I have had to yell at people numerous times who have tried to move my things, while I have been in the pool. Often in as little as within the first five minutes of getting into the pool.

 

The battle of holier than though is interesting to watch between the group that feels that they are entitled to save chairs and the group that feels that they are entitled to play judge, jury and executioner. In my opinion both are playing a game of entitlement. Oppostie views, but really the same game.

 

that would be interesting to see if that would make a difference(having shelving or cubicle space). I personally think the people who get in and out of the pool are the worst when it comes to hogging. On the last cruise there was a family of four with four chairs together and at least one of them would return every 20-30 minutes for a few minutes and leave again. :mad: Even with your argument they did not need a chair for each person as there was never more than two or three present on a chair at any one time. My husband and I were sharing a chair. We typically just don't get chairs by the pool because we don't swim a lot, but this night there was a football game on the big screen.

[cherylgrrl]

How about this... on my last cruise, I saw a lovely group of unoccupied chairs (one love seat, two singles) under an umbrella overlooking the adults-only pool. There were a couple of items left, including one magazine on the love seat. I sat on the other half of the love seat and started reading my book. About a half hour later, 3 people came and said those were their chairs. I said, well, it seems there are 3 of you and there are 4 places to sit so I'll just stay here and read quietly. They sat down and gave me the stink eye. Finally, the woman on the other side of the love seat said, "I'd really rather you left." Not wanting to cause a commotion, I got up and left without a word.

 

What do you think?

[StillPooh]

I think it's also inconsiderate and rude to sit in a chair for an entire day when other people would like a chance to sunbathe and relax as well. But moreso, I think the ships should be designed to accomodate more people in those coveted spots.

So long as I am willing to sit in it, possession is 9/10 ths of the law. DH and I take turns going to get food and bring it back. My idea of the perfect lounger is near the pool in the shade. Those are few and far between, so I won't give 'em up till I am darn good and ready.

 

Just exactly how would you suggest redesigning the ships?

[gilboman]

So what im finding about the issue is, every keeps syaing 30 mins. How many of you all are going to stand and watch when someone leave and waits "30 Mins" with a stop watch and then move their stuff. What if they are in a hottub or the pool 50 feet away?

 

so you have not used your chair for 30mins, your butt has to be parked in the chair. If your butt is away for 30mins+ then you lose your spot.

 

How hard is this? are you mentally handicapped? I hope you don't drive if you can't even figure this simple concept out.

 

The idiocy is beyond reproach. It's one thing to be a chairhog and don't care, but another to think by being 50 feet away, you are ok lol.

[lizjoemom]

It doesn't need to have been there since 6 a.m., it only needs to be there more than 30 minutes. If you get up to go to lunch, well, you've gone to lunch and should clear your chair unless you are going to be back in less than 30 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

A chair hog is someone that reserves a chair for more than 30 minutes by putting a towel or other personal belonging on it. They don't have to have done this at 6, or 7, as long as it has been more than 30 minutes. If your family is using a set of chairs and a family member is there watching them then that's not chair hogging (but we will usually only take 2 or 3 chairs for the 7 of us and the family members will take turns with the chairs with DW and myself having priority:)).

 

OK, so you agree that it's not chair hogging, however, I do believe that there are some that would say, tough luck, you are not in the chair, so I dont care that you left someone behind to watch it, I am moving your stuff. The reason I bring it up is because it has happened to me, I have had my stuff moved when I have just gotten up to go to the bathroom and get a drink, even though my son was left to watch the chair, the person just moved the stuff and intimidated my kid. I wasnt going to start a big todo over it when I got back so I just went and found another pair of chairs, but I think that some people get overzealous regarding the chair thing, on both sides. My definition of "hogging" is grabbing a whole bunch of something which you are not going to use, not putting a towel on a chair that I have every intention of returning too in a short time. The 30 minutes seems arbitrary to me.

[meliss1086]

Far from assault. As I remember from the Bar Exam, Assault is intent to cause immediate apprehension of Harmful or Offensive Contact with a person or another.

 

If anything, it is the movement of mislaid, or lost property, which is not a crime.

 

I was hoping this would get posted. As a fellow attorney I can reassure all the would-be "movers of chair hog property" that charges of assault are unlikely to stick :)

 

If I were a Chair Hog attorney, I might try for some form of conversion though!

[Herbaltees]

So you have a chair to sit in to keep an eye on the time a chair is left unoccupied or are you just standing around "lurking"?

 

What a waste of your vacation time.

 

 

Ehh, to each his own.

 

I enjoy my vacation, my way looking out at the sea, breathing in the salt air, while sitting in "your" lounge chair. And you can enjoy your's your way: complaining your orange, towel or flip flop was unable to reserve your seat.

 

Either way, I hope your massage, facial or lunch was relaxing, 'cause you'll be standing when you get back! :D

[sloanesq]

Ahem, at the risk of being way too technical and legal (and with the caveat that most of what follows is somewhat "tongue in cheek"), I'll bore you with this brief memorandum of law:

 

When removing a chair hog's belongings, I think the applicable tort is not assault but "trespass to chattels."

 

That being said however, there is the "doctrine of necessity" which allows trespass in times of need - such as crossing onto someone's property to save a child from a burning house. It can be argued that, on a crowded sea-day, "rescuing" a chair is very necessary and, consequently, there is no trespass to the chair hogs property.

 

Ultimately though, since chair hogs generally only come out whilst the ship is in international waters, I would have to conclude that it is maritime law, not the law of any shore-bound jurisdiction, which governs.

 

Under maritime law, it is the Captain of the ship who is the final arbiter of what is allowed. The numerous signs placed in pool areas banning anyone from reserving a seat for more than 30 minutes are clearly an expression of the Captain's will and give fair notice to any potential chair hog that their belongings might be removed.

 

Thus, when a chair hog leaves their "stuff" ("stuff" is a very technical, legal term) unattended for more than 30 minutes, they can be deemed to have assumed the risk that their "stuff" might be moved. Ergo, there is no liability on the part of the mover and the movee has no recourse but to hope their belongings are somewhere in the lost and found and not adorning Davy Jones' locker.

 

To conclude in layman's terms, go ahead and move the chair hog's stuff, you have nothing to worry about. Unless the chair hog happens to be large, drunk, and ornery. In which case, you may have to worry about another type of assault.:D

[Cruzin2paradise09]

Ok, after reading this thread, I have come up with an idea....I cruise in 18 days, I will be happy to be a warm-butt seat holder for you .... I will charge you $50/hour and I will be your personal chair hog. I think there is some money in this!

 

Then, and only then OP, if someone attempts to move me for chair hogging, can it be construed as assault!

 

Ok, I'm only joking people!

 

My family and I are the ones who go for the further away chairs with a view! Chair hogs are inconsiderate people. And on another note, your small children do NOT necessarily need a lounger! They will not sit in it long enough to warrant saving the chair for them! When my kids were younger, whether it was the neighborhood pool or a cruise, they (two of them) were told to either SHARE a lounger, or plant your stuff in my bag next to my chair and if you need to sit, you can sit with me! As pint-sized human beings, they don't require loungers when they spend 3/4 of their time in the pool!

 

Happy cruising!

[Herbaltees]

How about this... on my last cruise, I saw a lovely group of unoccupied chairs (one love seat, two singles) under an umbrella overlooking the adults-only pool. There were a couple of items left, including one magazine on the love seat. I sat on the other half of the love seat and started reading my book. About a half hour later, 3 people came and said those were their chairs. I said, well, it seems there are 3 of you and there are 4 places to sit so I'll just stay here and read quietly. They sat down and gave me the stink eye. Finally, the woman on the other side of the love seat said, "I'd really rather you left." Not wanting to cause a commotion, I got up and left without a word.

 

What do you think?

 

why did you leave? I wouldn't have left. "I'd rather they left" what nerve!

[italianfemmy]

So long as I am willing to sit in it, possession is 9/10 ths of the law. DH and I take turns going to get food and bring it back. My idea of the perfect lounger is near the pool in the shade. Those are few and far between, so I won't give 'em up till I am darn good and ready.

 

Just exactly how would you suggest redesigning the ships?

 

Granted, I am not a ship designer or an architect but there are 2 complaints I hear all the time.

 

1.) People hog pool deck chairs

 

2.) People go into the buffet wearing their bathing suits

 

Remedy both of these by:

 

1.) Moving the buffet to another deck on the ship. People smell the food because they're sitting by it and they walk into the buffet wearing their swim wear because it's convenient.

 

2.) Use the entire deck 10 (Lido) or similar from the aft all the way through to the atrium as your "fun in the sun" deck. Make the swimming pools slightly larger (another huge complaint) and put out tons and tons more deck chairs. The atrium could stop on deck 9. Yes, it won't make it as massive but would people rather have an enormous atrium or a larger area to hang out and do things like lounge by the pool?

 

3.) Have the pool deck end at the end of the atrium forward so that you can still have deck 11 and 12 forward to accomodate the spa, gym, spa cabins, etc. on those upper decks.

 

 

I am not saying that I fault you for keeping your butt parked in a chair all day long. I am just showing the other side of it. People who aren't morning people are also entitled to get a seat out on the pool deck. Where there is an issue, there is normally a bigger problem. That problem being that

 

1.) There aren't enough total seats.

2.) There isn't enough turn over to allow everyone a chance to sit because people will sit in their chairs all day long once they have them.

[redneony]

I love to lay in the sun on vacation, coming from Northern Indiana laying in the sun in February is fantastic. I get up kind of early grab some breakfast and then go and find a lounger to sun in. Now I usually do this by around 9 or 9:30 because if I did not I would be one of the poor people walking around looking for a lounger to use. Since I get out kind of early I have seen chairs with crap on them and they have been vacant the whole time I have been laying in the sun which is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours maybe longer meanwhile there are still people walking around looking for loungers. That is just rude and very selfish... If a fellow guest asks me if those loungers are being used I will tell them that I have not seen anyone in them since I have been there so they should be able to use them if they wish... :D

 

LOL it's actually sunny today. And 40 degrees! I think I'll go put shorts on. jk

 

I think femmy's completely right, which sucks because it doesn't solve the problem. It sounds like getting Carnival to act on their rules is a completely pointless endeavor.

 

I've already been planning a morning that I'm up at like 5 AM so I can get a clam shell in the Serenity. I want to do it at least once, just to say I did it, because, I, too, am from Northern Indiana, and the chances to sun bathe up here are slim to none. Except for today. :rolleyes: That being said, I think if you want it badly enough, you'll get up. Do I ever get up at 5 AM, ever? The only day I do is on Black Friday (which is pointless because they now think it acceptable to open stores on Thanksgiving night, but that's an entirely separate rant...). But when I get it, I'm going to sit in it and watch the sun rise. I don't care what your reasoning is, it is completely unacceptable to "save" a chair for hours.

 

So, should you move someone's stuff after 30 minutes if you really want to sunbathe on the vacation you paid for? Yup. Should you fret about this stupid, beaten-to-death topic to the point of ruining your trip? Heck no! Follow the rules, relax, and have a good time. :cool:

[WalkThaFreekinPlank]

Far from assault. As I remember from the Bar Exam, Assault is intent to cause immediate apprehension of Harmful or Offensive Contact with a person or another.

 

If anything, it is the movement of mislaid, or lost property, which is not a crime.

 

Ohh did somebody say Bar? Oh could I have a Double Lawyer on the rocks with a splash of $$ and slice of Broke.

[meliss1086]

 

Ultimately though, since chair hogs generally only come out whilst the ship is in international waters, I would have to conclude that it is maritime law, not the law of any shore-bound jurisdiction, which governs.

 

Under maritime law, it is the Captain of the ship who is the final arbiter of what is allowed. The numerous signs placed in pool areas banning anyone from reserving a seat for more than 30 minutes are clearly an expression of the Captain's will and give fair notice to any potential chair hog that their belongings might be removed.

 

 

This wins the thread! International waters! Why didn't I think of that? You are indeed, the superior legal expert!

[wrigley80]

How about this... on my last cruise, I saw a lovely group of unoccupied chairs (one love seat, two singles) under an umbrella overlooking the adults-only pool. There were a couple of items left, including one magazine on the love seat. I sat on the other half of the love seat and started reading my book. About a half hour later, 3 people came and said those were their chairs. I said, well, it seems there are 3 of you and there are 4 places to sit so I'll just stay here and read quietly. They sat down and gave me the stink eye. Finally, the woman on the other side of the love seat said, "I'd really rather you left." Not wanting to cause a commotion, I got up and left without a word.

 

What do you think?

 

That is just plain rude and you should have said something to her because it wan't her chair. Stand up to them next time :)

[JPTexan82]

Ohh did somebody say Bar? Oh could I have a Double Lawyer on the rocks with a splash of $$ and slice of Broke.

 

 

HA HA HA... Lawyer jokes they are the best. Im trying to find out which is worse a Lawyer or a Chair Hog???