Underage Drinking

[kocruiser]

I agree with the OP. This is one area that NCL is really lacking in control. We were on the Dawn last week and underage drinking was rampant. We witnessed two large groups of families traveling together and both groups were just out of control most of the time and completely oblivious to the other passengers. We went on a day trip on a catamaran that included snorkeling, kayaking, etc. The crew on the catamaran stated that there was plenty of time and booze for drinking but not until after scuba diving. This one group of parents and kids (many under the age of eighteen) got into the water for about twenty minutes then all climbed back on board the catamaran to start boozing it up. My wife and I like a good time but not when it puts other peoples' safety at risk. I blame the crew on the "Rising Son" exersion as much as the parents. After pouring gallons of rum punch, the crew proceeded to pour straight tequila through swimming noodles directly into people's mouths. This was offered and encouraged by the crew to just about everybody on board the catamaran. One crew member was actaully trying to encourage my sixteen year old son until I told the guy to backoff. They were serving young girls that looked to be no more than fourteen, and the parents were cheering them on. One guy next to me had a drink spilled all over him by one kid who was well on his way and was being encouraged by his parents to do more shots. My daughter had a drink spilled all over her camera case by another, and my wife had a drink dumped on her by one of the mothers in the group. Then all liquored up, the excursion ends and the partying continues back on the ship on the pool deck. We witnessed one guy have a bartender fill a bucket with ice and water and he intended to douse one of his friends with the contents of the bucket. Instead the idiot threw the bucket, water and ice included, coldconked his buddy, soaked everybody around them including my wife and I and the guy never even apologized. Crew staff were standing there watching and did nothing. NCL really needs to crack down on under age drinking and excessive drinking...lawsuit waiting to happen.

[camz]

I agree with the OP. This is one area that NCL is really lacking in control. We were on the Dawn last week and underage drinking was rampant. We witnessed two large groups of families traveling together and both groups were just out of control most of the time and completely oblivious to the other passengers. We went on a day trip on a catamaran that included snorkeling, kayaking, etc. The crew on the catamaran stated that there was plenty of time and booze for drinking but not until after scuba diving. This one group of parents and kids (many under the age of eighteen) got into the water for about twenty minutes then all climbed back on board the catamaran to start boozing it up. My wife and I like a good time but not when it puts other peoples' safety at risk. I blame the crew on the "Rising Son" exersion as much as the parents. After pouring gallons of rum punch, the crew proceeded to pour straight tequila through swimming noodles directly into people's mouths. This was offered and encouraged by the crew to just about everybody on board the catamaran. One crew member was actaully trying to encourage my sixteen year old son until I told the guy to backoff. They were serving young girls that looked to be no more than fourteen, and the parents were cheering them on. One guy next to me had a drink spilled all over him by one kid who was well on his way and was being encouraged by his parents to do more shots. My daughter had a drink spilled all over her camera case by another, and my wife had a drink dumped on her by one of the mothers in the group. Then all liquored up, the excursion ends and the partying continues back on the ship on the pool deck. We witnessed one guy have a bartender fill a bucket with ice and water and he intended to douse one of his friends with the contents of the bucket. Instead the idiot threw the bucket, water and ice included, coldconked his buddy, soaked everybody around them including my wife and I and the guy never even apologized. Crew staff were standing there watching and did nothing. NCL really needs to crack down on under age drinking and excessive drinking...lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

WOW! I have no problems with people drinking, as long as they know how to handle their consumption. I am not a fan of wearing anyones drink and would be totally annoyed if this happened to me. I have never seen minors drinking during our previous NCL cruises although it may have been happening. However, this problem needs to be forwarded to Mr. Kevin Sheehan immediately before something horrible happens. I am no kill joy, however, inexperienced young drinkers have no business indulging in the middle of the ocean. This is a recipe for disaster.

[francina]

This is simply not true. The law varies depending on the state. In some states, parents are allowed to supply alcohol to their children under the age of 21 (usually while under their supervision).

 

No, I think if an adult is found giving their child alcohol...someone will be going to jail.:eek: In United States....it is 21 unless you are in the service.

Bite my words. Looked it up and found this:

"http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act

Edited July 13, 2012 by francina
Correcting statment

[thebooler]

Have you considered that the parents might be Europeans and have bought the drinks for their offspring? There are significant cultural differences between Europe and the US and these parents may well see this as perfectly normal. I am not condoning them breaking NCL's rules but some of the posts on here are bordering on the hysterical.

 

Maybe the officers were taking a pragmatic approach - supervised responsible drinking - no big deal - too much drink and the ton of bricks drops.

 

Just to clarify. Getting drunk is not responsible drinking. No adults were supervising these kids. And they were not European kids.

Edited July 14, 2012 by thebooler

[thebooler]

On board a ship it's the law of the sea, not the law of the land!

 

So 18 it is then?

[thebooler]

This is simply not true. The law varies depending on the state. In some states, parents are allowed to supply alcohol to their children under the age of 21 (usually while under their supervision).

 

This happened last week. The Epic is in Europe.

[luddite]

The ship's personnel are not the police. Their only concern in re an underage drinker would be from a liablilty issue if the kid has a problem.

The waiters and crew are not interested in a confrontation that could ultimatelt cost them a paycheck.

 

It's the kid's vacation and they should be able to do whatever they want, however they want to and it's none of anyone's business what they do or how they behave.

 

Well, that's in the dining room. Up at the pool or near a bar might be different.

[Urban trekker]

Here's a chart showing the drinking age by country.

 

http://www.youthrights.net/index.php?title=Drinking_Age

 

Even in Europe many of the countries allow some sort of consumption as young as 15 or 16 and some have no set minimum age for consumption but do have a legal purchase age so while they may be violating the ships policy they may have there parents consent etc.

 

Only 5 or 6 countries besides the US have a 21 drinking age and most of them are Muslim.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[johnql]

This happened last week. The Epic is in Europe.

 

Your original statement - that it's illegal to supply minors with alcohol - is probably even less true in Europe than the U.S. I stand by my statement that your generality is simply untrue. The law varies by country and it is often permissible for parents to supply alcohol to their minor children.

[thebooler]

Your original statement - that it's illegal to supply minors with alcohol - is probably even less true in Europe than the U.S. I stand by my statement that your generality is simply untrue. The law varies by country and it is often permissible for parents to supply alcohol to their minor children.

 

In the privacy of their own home, yes.

 

I know in the UK it is against the law to provide alcohol to a junior. You can be arrested and charged for supplying 1 bottle of beer to a junior, even buying it from a take away store.

The bar person or waiter who serves alcohol to a junior can also be charged as its their responsibility to ensure any customer being sold alcohol is of the legal age.

 

I'm actually quite surprised at the amount of people who seem to be ignoring the OP, and the consequences it has for children, adults and NCL.

 

Just to clarify, for the purpose of the debate:

These kids were NOT 18 years old.

They were NOT with parents.

They were NOT Europeans.

They were NOT drinking responsibly.

The ships Officers were NOT enforcing their employer's rules.

 

Hope this makes things a bit more clear.

[sparks1093]

No, I think if an adult is found giving their child alcohol...someone will be going to jail.:eek: In United States....it is 21 unless you are in the service.

Bite my words. Looked it up and found this:

"http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act

 

Being in the service has nothing to do with it.

 

In the privacy of their own home, yes.

 

I know in the UK it is against the law to provide alcohol to a junior. You can be arrested and charged for supplying 1 bottle of beer to a junior, even buying it from a take away store.

The bar person or waiter who serves alcohol to a junior can also be charged as its their responsibility to ensure any customer being sold alcohol is of the legal age.

 

I'm actually quite surprised at the amount of people who seem to be ignoring the OP, and the consequences it has for children, adults and NCL.

 

Just to clarify, for the purpose of the debate:

These kids were NOT 18 years old.

They were NOT with parents.

They were NOT Europeans.

They were NOT drinking responsibly.

The ships Officers were NOT enforcing their employer's rules.

 

Hope this makes things a bit more clear.

 

NCL allows 18 year olds to purchase alcohol on European sailings. I always see NCL's enforcement of its policies as a "bend, don't break" kind of thing- they will tolerate infractions of the rules until they become big problems. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's NCL's liability, not mine. It is said that in the Bahamas they will serve you if you can see over the bar, so norms for drinking definitely vary by country.

[johnmpcny]

Your original statement - that it's illegal to supply minors with alcohol - is probably even less true in Europe than the U.S. I stand by my statement that your generality is simply untrue. The law varies by country and it is often permissible for parents to supply alcohol to their minor children.

 

In most of the USA a PARENT can allow their kids to have a drink they hand them.

 

We have at times like new years allowed our kids a toast and a taste of wine with our family meals. Our 16 yo has a Mike's when helping to dig a ditch with our Judge friend and even toasted his win.

 

On NCL they clip the corner of his card, this is the key NCL uses to show they are underage on the ship.

 

That said I know after the last cruise we found out he met some friends who were 18 and could get drinks, he said he had a beer they bought him. I was happy he told us but also told he was not to accept drinks from anyone again.

 

Look I was not born yesterday, underage happens and will happen. My job as a parent is to prevent it and control it. I would hope the staff would help me with this and from what I have seen they do.

Edited July 14, 2012 by johnmpcny

[johnql]

In most of the USA a PARENT can allow their kids to have a drink they hand them.

 

We have at times like new years allowed our kids a toast and a taste of wine with our family meals. Our 16 yo has a Mike's when helping to dig Ia ditch with our Judge friend and even toasted his win.

 

On NCL they clip the corner of his card, this is the key NCL uses to show they are underage on the ship.

 

That said I know after the last cruise we found out he met some friends who were 18 and could get drinks, he said he had a beer they bought him. I was happy he told us but also told he was not to accept drinks from anyone again.

 

Look I was not born yesterday, underage happens and will happen. My job as a parent is to prevent it and control it. I would hope the staff would help me with this and from what I have seen they do.

I'm confused. You quoted me and the title of your reply is "not true". What part of my post is not true?

[johnmpcny]

I was using your quote to add to mine, it did look I like I said you wrong. I should have been more clear in that it was anyone who said as a parent cannot in USA give your own kid a drink.

 

Add to that anyone can be arrested for child abuse if you provide them with booze and will be if you giving your 12 yo shots of JD. The gray area is when does a sip a wine for a ceremony (family dinner or even church) morph into getting your kid drunk.

[LadyShiva]

Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, but what are you trying to accomplish by posting this thread, thebooler? You have posted no discernible proof of age, or even proof that this happened LAST WEEK. You're off the ship, and while you were on the Epic, you talked to security personnel about your perception of underage drinking (you didn't check ID, from your story of being a fellow traveler). As Prem puts it, "Tell him about the problem when you're on the ship!"

 

Are you just trying to get NCL's attention that you believe you saw an incident of uncontrolled underage drinking and that the trained Security personnel did not take the action you believed warranted?

 

I'm not saying NCL shouldn't look into this... but you haven't given NCL Oversight much to work with via this post on a public forum. If you have children's names and pictures of the underage drinking, you really need to take that to a private communication method with the actual NCL communication channels (not Facebook).

 

If you don't have proof, then you really need to "tsk tsk, NCL Security!" and move on with the realization that you've raised a flag in person on the ship with the Security personnel, and they didn't take the action you would have preferred.

 

There's really nothing CC posters can do to address a possible situation in the past (that may or may not be substantiated) that was referred to NCL Security at the time of occurrence, other than clutch our pearls and exclaim.

[yakdaddy42]

No, I think if an adult is found giving their child alcohol...someone will be going to jail.:eek: In United States....it is 21 unless you are in the service.

Bite my words. Looked it up and found this:

"http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act

 

But once you step on the ship your not in the United States anymore. It is a big world out there, with different country's having different laws than ours. instead of projecting our closed minded views, maybe while traveling open your views a bit and enjoy the trip. US laws are only good in the US.

[scubagoil]

The OP stated that girls as young as 14 were drinking in plain site of NCL officers... I would like to know how the age was determined...

 

On my last cruise, I was with my daughter who was 24 at the time... She looks like she is about 12. She drank and I felt like a lot of people thought I was an irresponsible parent for buying her drinks because they assumed she was younger. We got a lot of condescending, tsk tsk tsk looks and it made us laugh!

 

By the way... If I ordered her drink, the crew always asked for her card to prove she was old enough. I am guessing the European cruises are more lax on this issue due to cultural differences.

[thebooler]

Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, but what are you trying to accomplish by posting this thread, thebooler? You have posted no discernible proof of age, or even proof that this happened LAST WEEK. You're off the ship, and while you were on the Epic, you talked to security personnel about your perception of underage drinking (you didn't check ID, from your story of being a fellow traveler). As Prem puts it, "Tell him about the problem when you're on the ship!"

 

Are you just trying to get NCL's attention that you believe you saw an incident of uncontrolled underage drinking and that the trained Security personnel did not take the action you believed warranted?

 

I'm not saying NCL shouldn't look into this... but you haven't given NCL Oversight much to work with via this post on a public forum. If you have children's names and pictures of the underage drinking, you really need to take that to a private communication method with the actual NCL communication channels (not Facebook).

 

If you don't have proof, then you really need to "tsk tsk, NCL Security!" and move on with the realization that you've raised a flag in person on the ship with the Security personnel, and they didn't take the action you would have preferred.

 

There's really nothing CC posters can do to address a possible situation in the past (that may or may not be substantiated) that was referred to NCL Security at the time of occurrence, other than clutch our pearls and exclaim.

What a load of absolute bull.

 

This is a public forum for discussing all things cruises, which includes making fellow cruisers aware of potential problems they may face on their cruise.

 

FYI I e mailed NCL with the details. Not to get a child into trouble, but to make them aware of a problem on their ship, which they should be dealing with before it escalates.

 

There was a lot of talk on the ship among guests that if this problem were to escalate, people would go elsewhere with their custom.

 

Is it so wrong to flag these things up?

 

If you don't like the thread, or don't feel it's worth posting, then don't bother contributing.

 

Simples.

[JohnIreland]

Several people have asked how you knew they were 14.

 

I don't see an answer,

[sdmike]

NCL can set any rules they want. If they want the drinking and gambling ages to be 5 years old, they can do that. What they SHOULDN'T do is ignore the enforcement of the rules they have already set, or ignore safety issues. A child drinking is both against their rules and likely a safety issue, and they are responsible for addressing this IMO. They have set rules on gambling, so they should enforce those as well. If some a-hole parent disagrees, they can leave too.

 

My two cents

Edited July 14, 2012 by sdmike

[ColinIllinois]

Several people have asked how you knew they were 14.

 

I don't see an answer,

 

 

She had her Barbie dolls in one hand and a Margarita in the other. 'Nuff said.

[thebooler]

Several people have asked how you knew they were 14.

 

I don't see an answer,

 

When I say one of the girls was 14, I did state that I was giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I've also stated that had she been 18, she wouldn't have needed to ask a friend to go to the bar and get her drinks.

I've also stated that the ones who were 18 were asking for 2 straws for their drink. They were sharing.

When an officer did eventually confront them, not one of them disputed the officer, and they moved on.

[thebooler]

NCL can set any rules they want. If they want the drinking and gambling ages to be 5 years old, they can do that. What they SHOULDN'T do is ignore the enforcement of the rules they have already set, or ignore safety issues. A child drinking is both against their rules and likely a safety issue, and they are responsible for addressing this IMO. They have set rules on gambling, so they should enforce those as well. If some a-hole parent disagrees, they can leave too.

 

My two cents

 

Thanks.

[sjbdtz]

What a load of absolute bull.

 

This is a public forum for discussing all things cruises, which includes making fellow cruisers aware of potential problems they may face on their cruise.

 

FYI I e mailed NCL with the details. Not to get a child into trouble, but to make them aware of a problem I PERCEIVED on their ship, which they should be dealing with before it escalates.

 

There was a lot of talk on the ship among guests that if this problem were to escalate, people would go elsewhere with their custom.

 

Is it so wrong to flag these things up?

 

If you don't like the thread, or don't feel it's worth posting, then don't bother contributing.

 

Simples.

 

You missed a thought, which I inserted above, to save you the trouble.

Also curious....were you the instigator of the "lot of talk"?

 

 

When I say one of the girls was 14, I did state that I was giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I've also stated that had she been 18, she wouldn't have needed to ask a friend to go to the bar and get her drinks.

I've also stated that the ones who were 18 were asking for 2 straws for their drink. They were sharing.

When an officer did eventually confront them, not one of them disputed the officer, and they moved on.

 

 

I thought your complaint was that nobody challenged the girls?

 

But then somebody did.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I'd LOVE to speak with some of the people who would choose not to travel on an incredible cruiseship just because on one occasion some girls got away with drinking underage (and ONLY because someone who was OF age bought their drinks for them).

 

They were not served by NCL (according to you), and they were challenged (according to you).

 

So where's the beef? I'm confused.

[thebooler]

You missed a thought, which I inserted above, to save you the trouble.

Also curious....were you the instigator of the "lot of talk"?

 

 

 

 

 

I thought your complaint was that nobody challenged the girls?

 

But then somebody did.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I'd LOVE to speak with some of the people who would choose not to travel on an incredible cruiseship just because on one occasion some girls got away with drinking underage (and ONLY because someone who was OF age bought their drinks for them).

 

They were not served by NCL (according to you), and they were challenged (according to you).

 

So where's the beef? I'm confused.

 

Yes. You certainly seem confused.

 

And for the record, no, the underage drinking was actually pointed out to me by another guest. And then by another couple on the following night.

 

When I read some of the posts on here, it does make me wonder if some are by NCL staff.

Edited July 14, 2012 by thebooler