Flights changed, what can I do?

[6rugrats]

Had similar problems. Flew out of Tn via Atanta direct to Venice and back via Delta. Stayed in Venice one night coming and going but Delta changed the flights 4 plus times and mostly no problem. Didn't go thru choice air but thru my TA, and when some of the changes were a conflict called my TA who contacted Delta and took care of it. Main problem came one time when flight back I knew there wasn't enough time to go thru customs in Atlanta. I was more stressed out with the ongoing flight changes than the cruise.

But OP booked through Choice Air, so your experience does not apply to him/her in any way.

[negc]

I don't see how I'm being cynical when I say a for-profit company is motivated by keeping the profit they made off the customer. And I guarantee you, as someone very familiar with the aviation industry and aviation business specifically, that if Choice Air offered tickets at $30 or $50 less than the airline, people would go to them even if they had a previously "not so ideal" experience. A quick perusal of the Cruise Air section on CC will prove that price is the motivating factor in 90% of poster.

 

I suggest they deal with BA too...BUT, I said that BA would possibly refer them back to the cruiseline since the cruiseline is the travel agent for the OP.

 

The price difference we have experienced with Choice Air is considerably more than $30 or $50, more like $400 +. I agree that profit is a large motivator for any "for-profit" corporation but so is repeat business and there is a considerable difference between "not so ideal" and outright poor and unresponsive experiences.

[Zach1213]

The price difference we have experienced with Choice Air is considerably more than $30 or $50, more like $400 +. I agree that profit is a large motivator for any "for-profit" corporation but so is repeat business and there is a considerable difference between "not so ideal" and outright poor and unresponsive experiences.

 

I'd say that even strengthens my argument. Even if the first experience turns out poorly, $400 (x 2 or 3 or 4 people) can do a lot to bring a customer back. Headaches can go away quickly when many hundreds of dollars are at stake ;)

[negc]

I'd say that even strengthens my argument. Even if the first experience turns out poorly, $400 (x 2 or 3 or 4 people) can do a lot to bring a customer back. Headaches can go away quickly when many hundreds of dollars are at stake ;)

 

Perhaps it depends on one's definition of "poorly". If the experience includes missing the sailing, or some of the other serious headaches you cited when you advised people to avoid Choice Air, the monies saved won't be enough to bring customers back. However, if the headaches are few and relatively minor in consequence, perhaps avoiding Choice Air wasn't the such great advice in the first place.:)

[FLACRUISER99]

Where did you find this price? The prices I've found are several times that.

 

Paul

 

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2

 

http://Www.itasoftware.com

[villauk]

Paul,

 

The first time we cruised, several years ago, our flights were booked through RCI and we had a similar experience. The airline actually pulled out from our local airport and we were offered alternatives flights by RCI that got us into BCN at about the same time as your quoting, maybe even slightly later. They wouldn't change when we asked several times as we didn't want a connecting flight. After persisting, we did get a better routing (virtually half the travelling time but still a late flight). However by the time we boarded, we were probably one of the last ones on the ship. We had to go straight to muster drill! RCI insisted they wouldn't deviate from their usual carriers. I realise it wasn't their fault the carrier pulled out, however it was a very stressful morning :eek:, especially as we're only two hours from BCN and it took us over 6 hours to get there! Since then, we book our own flights and travel in the day before.

[Zach1213]

Perhaps it depends on one's definition of "poorly". If the experience includes missing the sailing, or some of the other serious headaches you cited when you advised people to avoid Choice Air, the monies saved won't be enough to bring customers back. However, if the headaches are few and relatively minor in consequence, perhaps avoiding Choice Air wasn't the such great advice in the first place.:)

 

I'm struggling to find someplace on this thread where I told people to avoid Choice Air. I don't think I ever once said that, but if I did, please point me to it. I said that situations like this could be more difficult because of booking via Choice Air versus booking directly with the cruise line. I didn't even say it absolutely would be...I said it often is.

[ARCruisinNana]

It is not Choice Air or RCCL that caused the problem. It was the airline. They should be responsible for correcting any problems that occurred due to a schedule change. If Choice Air changes a flight there probably is an additional charge depending on the type of ticket. Please contact the airline as they caused the problem or potential problem.

[temple1]

It is not Choice Air or RCCL that caused the problem. It was the airline. They should be responsible for correcting any problems that occurred due to a schedule change. If Choice Air changes a flight there probably is an additional charge depending on the type of ticket. Please contact the airline as they caused the problem or potential problem.

 

If Choice Air was acting as the agent for the OP - then it is probably only Choice Air that can make the change to their reservation. Similar to using a TA to book a cruise. No matter what the cruise line does to the itenerary - you must go through your TA to make changes.

[negc]

I'm struggling to find someplace on this thread where I told people to avoid Choice Air. I don't think I ever once said that, but if I did, please point me to it. I said that situations like this could be more difficult because of booking via Choice Air versus booking directly with the cruise line. I didn't even say it absolutely would be...I said it often is.

I apologize for misstating your comments. Nowhere do I find that you posted what I claimed. I can only offer a "senior moment" as a defense.:o

[greatam]

Perhaps it depends on one's definition of "poorly". If the experience includes missing the sailing, or some of the other serious headaches you cited when you advised people to avoid Choice Air, the monies saved won't be enough to bring customers back. However, if the headaches are few and relatively minor in consequence, perhaps avoiding Choice Air wasn't the such great advice in the first place.:)

 

You fail to realize that the CHEAPEST of the tickets on Choice Air are generally NOT the same tickets you would purchase directly from the airline. May be the same plane, same flight #, same time, you get a PRN, you can pick your seats, you may even get FF miles. BUT if there is a problem (such as the OP's), the underlying FARE RULES governing the Choice Air tickets VERY often prevent re-routing, re ticketing, re arranging ANYTHING. A BIG difference in tickets.

[cruisenfever]

If Choice Air was acting as the agent for the OP - then it is probably only Choice Air that can make the change to their reservation. Similar to using a TA to book a cruise. No matter what the cruise line does to the itenerary - you must go through your TA to make changes.

We used Choice Air last December when we booked our upcoming flights to London next month. We booked our cruise through our TA, but I booked the flights directly with Choice Air and paid for them at the time of booking. I have always been in complete control of our reservation since we booked.

[greatam]

We used Choice Air last December when we booked our upcoming flights to London next month. We booked our cruise through our TA, but I booked the flights directly with Choice Air and paid for them at the time of booking. I have always been in complete control of our reservation since we booked.

 

You may be in complete control of your reservation on the Choice Air website and being able to pick your seats. BUT IF there is a problem AND you got one of the "cheap" flights on Choice Air, you will most likely have to deal with Choice Air for changes or problems. YOU are NOT the airline customer. Choice Air is.

[cruisenfever]

You may be in complete control of your reservation on the Choice Air website and being able to pick your seats. BUT IF there is a problem AND you got one of the "cheap" flights on Choice Air, you will most likely have to deal with Choice Air for changes or problems. YOU are NOT the airline customer. Choice Air is.

I actually manage my flight on the United website as that is where we selected our seats last December. As far as being a cheap flight, we are flying Business Class, and even though they were expensive, we saved $5000+ by using Choice Air.

[ollienbertsmum]

So what can the OP do ? I have looked where his TA goes (I wanna go too) and actually it is not that far from Barcelona to Cartagena his next stop.

He can assume that he is more than likely going to make the ship, and if he doesn't he will join the next day. Will he be looked after by anyone if there is a hitch? Or should he be researching plan b options now just so he knows what to do in the event of a slow plane?

[waterbug123]

The price difference we have experienced with Choice Air is considerably more than $30 or $50, more like $400 +. I agree that profit is a large motivator for any "for-profit" corporation but so is repeat business and there is a considerable difference between "not so ideal" and outright poor and unresponsive experiences.

 

And what many fail to understand is that there is a potential trade off for getting such a discount. In the case of Choice Air, that trade off is often something along the lines of not being able to change the ticket, as the terms and conditions of that super discounted (i.e. "specially negotiated" or consolidator rate) ticket is that changes can't be made. There is a certain truth to "you get what you pay for."

Caveat Emptor

[waterbug123]

It is not Choice Air or RCCL that caused the problem. It was the airline. They should be responsible for correcting any problems that occurred due to a schedule change. If Choice Air changes a flight there probably is an additional charge depending on the type of ticket. Please contact the airline as they caused the problem or potential problem.

 

You fail to realize that the CHEAPEST of the tickets on Choice Air are generally NOT the same tickets you would purchase directly from the airline. May be the same plane, same flight #, same time, you get a PRN, you can pick your seats, you may even get FF miles. BUT if there is a problem (such as the OP's), the underlying FARE RULES governing the Choice Air tickets VERY often prevent re-routing, re ticketing, re arranging ANYTHING. A BIG difference in tickets.

 

What Greatam said. Yes, ordinarily, when buying regular tickets from the airline, if the airline makes a schedule change, you can have it changed again to something more suitable. That is not always allowed when buying the super discounted Choice Air tickets. Restrictions like that are in the terms/conditions/fare rules of the ticket that you essentially agree to by buying the ticket (even though you will likely never actually see or read them)

 

I actually manage my flight on the United website as that is where we selected our seats last December. As far as being a cheap flight, we are flying Business Class, and even though they were expensive, we saved $5000+ by using Choice Air.

 

Being able to select your seats via the airline's website doesn't mean a thing. And if you saved that much on your tickets, you can bet that you got a "specially negotiated" rate. If everything goes off without a hitch, you will never know the difference and will have saved a bunch of money. Yippee! But if things go haywire on travel day, well, that's when you find out exactly what restrictions may be attached to your ticket. THAT could be a costly lesson.

[kenish]

It is not Choice Air or RCCL that caused the problem. It was the airline. They should be responsible for correcting any problems that occurred due to a schedule change. If Choice Air changes a flight there probably is an additional charge depending on the type of ticket. Please contact the airline as they caused the problem or potential problem.

 

Yes, the airline schedule changed. It happens all the time as a search of this board as well as personal experience will attest. But it's not a problem because the airline will change to a workable flight free of charge when the schedule change is more than a few hours. All it takes is a phone call, but it has to be a published-fare ticket.

 

The situation became a problem due to Choice Air and/or the customer being deceived or myopic to what they were buying. The airline's customer is Choice Air, who bought "scratch and dent" or "gray market" tickets in bulk. They got them cheap because the airline received revenue early-on, and knew they had no further duties to service a customer other than transporting SLF (self-loading freight, aka passenger) from A to B.

 

I put the blame on Choice Air for using "ad copy" wording to make customers think they are buying something that is very different when the contractual fine print is dissected. But, the purpose of this board is to inform and educate...so anyone who did even a little reading of this board has to take some responsibility for causing themselves a problem.

 

That said, it will be interesting and informative to all to know how things play out for OP's situation. Seems to be "radio silence" which I hope doesn't mean that OP is in a real pickle due to conso tickets (it wasn't confirmed that's what OP purchased).

[greatam]

I put the blame on Choice Air for using "ad copy" wording to make customers think they are buying something that is very different when the contractual fine print is dissected. But, the purpose of this board is to inform and educate...so anyone who did even a little reading of this board has to take some responsibility for causing themselves a problem.

 

 

 

In the vein of further education, I offer the following (which is EXACTLY the same as my sticky on Cruise Air and Air Deviation in the cruise air forum except with more detail):

 

Let me put it in the simplest terms: Tickets bought from agencies like CheapoAir, Vayama, BestFares.com AND the CHEAPEST of the Choice Air tickets are purchased like this:

 

Any time between a year and 6 months before the flight schedule becomes available (so almost two years before the flight), negotiation with the airlines start. The BUYER (CheapO, Vayama, Choice Air, Princess EZ Air, etc. etc.) states this premise: we need 200 tickets from LAX to Barcelona on July 10.

 

Airlines state: We will sell you 200 tickets for $400 each. We may route the tickets through DFW, ORD, JFK, ATL, MIA, AMS, MUC, LHR, FRA, etc. etc. Routings will be advised when schedules are firmed up. BUT the following restrictions will apply (these are negotiated between the buyer and the airlines and are generally NOT found on airline purchased tickets) These are the tickets Choice Air calls "specially negotiated fares" and are the CHEAPEST of the available tickets.

 

1.ALL tickets are NON ENDORSABLE (can't be used on another airline).

 

2. ALL tickets are NON REROUTABLE (when schedules are released, the tickets we issue to you MUST be used on the routing they are issued for).

 

3. Rebooking in case of irops (irregular operations) will be handled on fare class/fare code/fare rules priority. The tickets we sell to you have the LOWEST priority for rebooking.

 

4. SOME agencies (BestFares and Vayama in particular) negotiate THIS provision: Use it or loose it. If the flight changes in any way, we accept any changes.

 

5. And of course, the tickets carry the SAME non refundable, non transferable restrictions as 99% of the discount fare tickets people purchase direct from the airline.

 

Once schedules are released, the airlines "hold" 200 seats with various routings to Barcelona. The confirmation is sent to the "agency" and the tickets are essentially "sitting on a shelf" at the "agency" waiting for a passenger name to be attached. The airline could care less how much the "agency" sells the ticket for. The airline has already been paid for the ticket and YOU are no longer their customer. The cruise line or consolidator agency is the airline's customer. You have now become the customer of the cruise line or consolidator agency.

 

Benefits to the cruise line: They sell CHEAP tickets that 99% of the passengers THINK are the same as airline issued tickets. They make a profit because they are selling those $400 tickets for $550 or more (plus part of the "booking fee"). If you get a ticket at the same price as what the cruise line paid for the ticket, you got a "scratch and dent" sale on an already heavily discounted "specially negotiated rate" ticket. The cruise line was STUCK with tickets they already paid for.

 

Benefits to the airline: They sold 200 tickets. Those tickets were paid for at least 3 months BEFORE the schedules were even released (generally 330 days pre flight). The airline gets CASH far in advance of the actual flight. In the case of Choice Air, the airlines get a small percentage of the "booking fee".

 

Downsides to the consumer: IF there is a glitch and you miss a connection or a flight is canceled, you are essentially STUCK with VERY few options. You MUST fly on the originating airline. You MUST fly the ORIGINAL routing. Due to the provisions negotiated well in advance of a consumer buying the ticket, even if there is space available on another airline or you can be re-routed through ORD to make your connection when your original ticket routed you through JFK, you CANNOT reroute you flight. The RESTRICTIONS/RULES negotiated far in advance say so.

 

That is the reason why the airline sold the tickets so cheap. They are NOT going to endorse tickets or spend hours re-routing tickets that have specific provisions PROHIBITING those very actions. It is NOT worth their time and trouble. And in addition, you are NOT their customer.

 

The "use it or loose it" provision is very, very detrimental and not only could it make you miss the start of your cruise, important business meeting, wedding, etc. etc, but you could be FORCED to pony up a very large amount of money at the airport.

 

A LOT of travel insurance policies state 'if you don't make an effort to catch up with your cruise, make your business meeting, etc., etc., WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE GOOD ON THE POLICY.' So not only are you out your cruise/wedding/vacation but you also lost your money even with travel insurance unless you are willing to pony up the BIG BUCKS for a last minute walk up ticket.

 

This is how the use it or loose it provision works: Customer booked a return flight at noon. Flight changes to 9AM. This provision FORCES you to make the 9AM flight. You are still on the ship or in transit to the airport. Flight leaves-your ticket is NO good. You are now buying a NEW ticket to get home.

 

If you can't read the ENTIRE fare rules, you have NO idea what you are buying and what help you may get in case of irops (or in the case of the OP, whose flight was changed to an unacceptable time).

 

The complete FARE RULES (which most of the time on the consolidator sites and Choice Air tickets you can't even see) are what you need to read FIRST. They govern WHAT and HOW the airline can help you in the case of irops.

 

Then check the T & C's of the "agency" you are purchasing the tickets from. It is under the T & C's of Vayama that I found the "use it or loose it" provision a few years ago. The non endorsable, non reroutable provision is posted in the fine print on the Celebrity website for Choice Air: "Airline tickets we issue are highly restrictive and you may find that your ticket cannot be exchanged, reissued or revalidated for another carrier or routing."

 

And for a real shocker, read through the cruise contract in relation to shore excursions, TRANSPORTATION (including airline tickets), hotels and anything NOT directly connected to the ship. All ancillary activities are done as a CONVENIENCE for the passenger and the cruise line has NO responsibility nor liability. Check out Paragraph 5 of Celebrity's cruise contract. Most cruise lines have the same provision in their cruise contracts.

 

http://media.celebritycruises.com/ce...y_04_23_08.pdf

[cruisenfever]

5. And of course, the tickets carry the SAME non refundable, non transferable restrictions as 99% of the discount fare tickets people purchase direct from the airline.

We must have lucked out, because our tickets, purchased through Choice Air, in Business/First for our upcoming flight over to London are refundable, but with a cancellation fee of $175pp. Not bad when you consider the cost of the tickets.:D

[greatam]

We must have lucked out, because our tickets, purchased through Choice Air, in Business/First for our upcoming flight over to London are refundable, but with a cancellation fee of $175pp. Not bad when you consider the cost of the tickets.:D

 

I wouldn't worry too much about business/first tickets almost any place they are purchased. Those tickets are the airline's profit makers and they will generally bend over backwards to accommodate business/first passengers even IF there are unknown restrictions. The airlines look at it this way-no matter where you purchased the ticket, you generally spent 10 times as much as the "specially negotiated rate"/consolidator tickets most purchase. And if you can afford it this time, maybe you can afford it next time. And we want you back in business/first.

 

The Choice Air discussions are VERY rarely about business/first class tickets. 99% are "we got the BEST price" from Choice Air. And then "we got to pick our seats, the flight number is the same as posted on the airline website, etc. etc." It is those nasty little underlying RULES governing those cheap tickets that can trap an unwary consumer and cause major havoc to a trip.

 

Enjoy your flight and cruise.

[cruisenfever]

I wouldn't worry too much about business/first tickets almost any place they are purchased. Those tickets are the airline's profit makers and they will generally bend over backwards to accommodate business/first passengers even IF there are unknown restrictions. The airlines look at it this way-no matter where you purchased the ticket, you generally spent 10 times as much as the "specially negotiated rate"/consolidator tickets most purchase. And if you can afford it this time, maybe you can afford it next time. And we want you back in business/first.

 

The Choice Air discussions are VERY rarely about business/first class tickets. 99% are "we got the BEST price" from Choice Air. And then "we got to pick our seats, the flight number is the same as posted on the airline website, etc. etc." It is those nasty little underlying RULES governing those cheap tickets that can trap an unwary consumer and cause major havoc to a trip.

 

Enjoy your flight and cruise.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand it a little better now.:)

[scottbee]

Hi

 

I booked flights through Choice Air from Heathrow - Barcelona for a Transatlantic cruise. We fly out the same day as we cruise but RCI have just emailed me to tell me that my flight won't arrive in Barcelona until 12:25 so by the time we've been through baggage collection, got the transfer to ship and boarded we probably won't get to our stateroom till about 15:30 - 16:00. The ship departs at 17:00.

 

My real question is where do I stand if i phone up to change my flight? should I be able to change it without paying a deviation fee as it is RCI who changed the flight or do I have to put up with what I've got and really hope my flight isn't delayed?

 

Thanks

 

Paul

 

Most people are missing a crucial point here:

 

Self purchased airline ticket:

Seller: British Airways

Buyer: YOU

 

Cruise Air ticket:

Seller: British Airways

Buyer: Choice Air

 

BA's obligation is to Choice Air, so when they asked the buyer (Choice Air) if there's a problem with the new times, Choice Air said "Fine". You as a designee of Choice Air, don't really have much pull.

 

Greatam (as usual) has explained the difference between a Choice Air (consolidator) ticket and a normal airline ticket. Bottom Line:

 

• The ship won't wait for you
  
• Your ticket is not endorsable to another carrier in the case of irregular ops by the original carrier.
  
• Choice Air may (or may not) get you to another city if you miss the cruise
  

The tradeoff? you might save some money on the ticket.

[FLACRUISER99]

Most people are missing a crucial point here:

 

Greatam (as usual) has explained the difference between a Choice Air (consolidator) ticket and a normal airline ticket. Bottom Line:

 

Did you ever read the sticky on Choice Air especilly this part.

"RCCL offers nearly all of the same fares offered on consumer and airline websites - typically referred to as published fares, and some web fares. As is typical on the various websites, occasionally you will find a lower fare on one that is not available on the other. This is usually due to timing and airline inventory fluctuations, but for the most part you will see parity. On many routes, you will also find some special RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines. These rates are especially good when shopping closer in, traveling internationally - and even more-so on open jaw (Fly into one city and out of a different city) or one way trips, when many published fares are more expensive. So while there may be some anomalies, you will typically find the same published fares - or better - on ChoiceAir. A frequent topic on Cruise Critic is the value and challenges with Consolidator tickets/fares. Those are not available through ChoiceAir. All ChoiceAir fares carry the standard airline rules, and even the contracted ones are similar. The travelers have all of the airline and RCCL services available to them, and are subject to the airlines rules and restrictions. Troy specifically emphasized that RCCL does not use consolidator-type fares.

[greatam]

Did you ever read the sticky on Choice Air especilly this part.

"RCCL offers nearly all of the same fares offered on consumer and airline websites - typically referred to as published fares, and some web fares. As is typical on the various websites, occasionally you will find a lower fare on one that is not available on the other. This is usually due to timing and airline inventory fluctuations, but for the most part you will see parity. On many routes, you will also find some special RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines. These rates are especially good when shopping closer in, traveling internationally - and even more-so on open jaw (Fly into one city and out of a different city) or one way trips, when many published fares are more expensive. So while there may be some anomalies, you will typically find the same published fares - or better - on ChoiceAir. A frequent topic on Cruise Critic is the value and challenges with Consolidator tickets/fares. Those are not available through ChoiceAir. All ChoiceAir fares carry the standard airline rules, and even the contracted ones are similar. The travelers have all of the airline and RCCL services available to them, and are subject to the airlines rules and restrictions. Troy specifically emphasized that RCCL does not use consolidator-type fares.

 

OBVIOUSLY, you didn't comprehend this part. "SPECIAL RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines"

 

"PUBLISHED fares are MORE EXPENSIVE"

 

You are generally NOT getting the same ticket. You are NOT getting a published fare ticket with all the perks and benefits. CALL them what you want. Troy was very evasive when regular posters on the cruise air forum tried to pin him down on his very wording.

 

Some of these Choice Air tickets are booked under cruise package/vacation package rates (which are essentially consolidator rates). Pay for the ticket up front. BUT if you cancel the cruise, your air ticket is NO good. Can't use it to take a land trip on the same dates to the same destination. This happened to 3 or 4 people who canceled their cruises BECAUSE Egypt was taken off the itinerary. One was going to fly to Egypt and use the air they had paid for months in advance. Couldn't do it. Cost them $200pp cancellation fee with their Choice Air tickets because they were NOT taking a chance with another cruise to Egypt.

 

The RULES governing tickets purchased under "specially negotiated rates" are ONLY between the airline and Choice Air. You really have NO IDEA what you are buying because you cannot read the ENTIRE fare rules. As Kenish posted, "ad copy" and lawyer weasel words (and I am a non practicing transportation attorney) to sell tickets to the unsuspecting.