Flights changed, what can I do?

[6rugrats]

Everyone is free to believe what they want.

 

RCCL offers nearly all of the same fares offered on consumer and airline websites

Key words here - NEARLY

 

On many routes, you will also find some special RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines

Key words here - SPECIAL RATES

 

when many published fares are more expensive

Key words here - PUBLISHED FARES

 

All ChoiceAir fares carry the standard airline rules, and even the contracted ones are similar.

Key words here - CONTRACTED and SIMILAR

 

What is the definition of an airline ticket consolidator:

 

Buy blocks of airline tickets directly from the carriers at a

heavily discounted prices (wholesale)

- Negotiate and buy direct from airlines.

- Sign and negotiate own contracts with the airlines.

 

Sound familiar?

 

I don't care from whom you purchase your tickets. You should just not buy into the hype and you should be aware of what you are purchasing.

 

 

 

Troy specifically emphasized that RCCL does not use consolidator-type fares

Uh huh.

[Jimnbigd]

All passengers must be checked in 90 minutes prior to departure, so it looks like you will be checked in, you'll just miss a few hours in the afternoon on the ship.

I'm not sure, but I think the 90-minute-check-in rule is for USA departures. I'm not sure when you have to check in for Europe departures. Still, I would not want to cut it too close. The airline should allow you to change with no change fees. As it is now, you little room for error. Be sure to cross-pack your bags in case a bag is lost, so you have something to wear on the ship.

[waterbug123]

I'm not sure, but I think the 90-minute-check-in rule is for USA departures. I'm not sure when you have to check in for Europe departures. Still, I would not want to cut it too close. The airline should allow you to change with no change fees. As it is now, you little room for error. Be sure to cross-pack your bags in case a bag is lost, so you have something to wear on the ship.

 

Unless the rules of the (Choice Air) ticket you bought (and agreed to by buying it) say "no changes without charge, even if the flight times are changed by the airline to something unfeasible." Read the entire thread to get more info on what you may be getting with Choice Air.

[pltag]

Now that we've beaten the Choice Air fine print like a dead horse, I'd like to address this situation from a different angle:

 

my flight won't arrive in Barcelona until 12:25 so by the time we've been through baggage collection, got the transfer to ship and boarded we probably won't get to our stateroom till about 15:30 - 16:00. The ship departs at 17:00.

 

 

Is the Barcelona airport a considerable distance from the airport?? I'm just curious why you think it will take 3+ hours from your plane landing to your arrival at your stateroom.

 

I just returned from a trip through out Europe, and we were surprised to discover that you do NOT have to clear customs when you fly between certain European countries. I'm guessing England >>> Spain is the same.

 

If you went with Choice Air ..... I'm afraid you also went with RCI airport transfers. If so, consider other options.

 

Again, unless the drive to the port is some huge distance, I'm guessing you'll be on board by 2:30 p.m., or so. Not ideal, but certainly not a problem.

 

Have a Great Cruise! :)

[Shak]

Now that we've beaten the Choice Air fine print like a dead horse, I'd like to address this situation from a different angle:

 

 

 

Is the Barcelona airport a considerable distance from the airport?? I'm just curious why you think it will take 3+ hours from your plane landing to your arrival at your stateroom.

 

I just returned from a trip through out Europe, and we were surprised to discover that you do NOT have to clear customs when you fly between certain European countries. I'm guessing England >>> Spain is the same.

 

If you went with Choice Air ..... I'm afraid you also went with RCI airport transfers. If so, consider other options.

 

Again, unless the drive to the port is some huge distance, I'm guessing you'll be on board by 2:30 p.m., or so. Not ideal, but certainly not a problem.

 

Have a Great Cruise! :)

 

I went on a cruise from Barcelona last Nov and as I recall it was about 30 minutes away. Even if you do have RCI transfers it is not required you use them but I would think if the representive was there to greet you that you have a great chance make the cruise with the transfers.

 

We weent in 2 days early for this trip and had Choice Air.

 

Shak

We went in 2 days early and had choice air.

[greatam]

I just returned from a trip through out Europe, and we were surprised to discover that you do NOT have to clear customs when you fly between certain European countries. I'm guessing England >>> Spain is the same.

 

Most countries (but not all) in the Euro Union are part of the Schengen agreement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

 

The UK is NOT part of Schengen. So Customs and Immigration WILL be required upon arrival from Spain.

 

I have always found the easiest way to remember which countries are part of Schengen is the country's currency. Those that use Euros are primarily Schengen members. The UK does not use Euros as their standard currency.

[FLACRUISER99]

And what many fail to understand is that there is a potential trade off for getting such a discount. In the case of Choice Air, that trade off is often something along the lines of not being able to change the ticket, as the terms and conditions of that super discounted (i.e. "specially negotiated" or consolidator rate) ticket is that changes can't be made. There is a certain truth to "you get what you pay for."

Caveat Emptor

I think almost everyone understands that.

[Donray]

All passengers must be checked in 90 minutes prior to departure, so it looks like you will be checked in, you'll just miss a few hours in the afternoon on the ship.

 

Where did you get this information? You positive that ships leaving Barcelona require this? Where in Europe do they send the list?

[cruisenfever]

Where did you get this information? You positive that ships leaving Barcelona require this? Where in Europe do they send the list?

From the RCI website http://www.royalcaribbean.com/beforeyouboard/whatToKnow/topTenFAQs/detail.do?pagename=top_10_faqs&pnav=4&snav=2&faqId=1166&faqSubjectName=Top+10+FAQ&

 

However, you didn't read down far enough to see that my statement was already questioned. I was going by what is required here in the US.

 

I don't see why embarkation at a foreign port would be any different than embarkation at a US port.

[TheD1gitalMe]

Thank you for all your responses.

 

I didn't have any luck first time phoning RCI. I bought my flights at the same time that we booked this cruise (May 2011) so no schedules were available, I assume my flights are booked with Choice Air even though i didn't book them directly with them but with RCI?

 

Is the Barcelona airport a considerable distance from the airport?? I'm just curious why you think it will take 3+ hours from your plane landing to your arrival at your stateroom.

 

I am guessing about 3 hours just from previous experiences with airports, transfers and embarkation. My flight Departs London Heathrow at 9:20am and arrives in Barcelona at 12:25pm. I'm thinking towards 1pm by the time the plane is at the gate and people are actually getting off, 2pm to clear customs and go through baggage collection and then 3pm - 3:30 for the transfer bus to fill up, transfer to ship and go through the embarkation process.

 

I hope I'm wrong and it doesn't take so long. I've been told I have the 'Assured Arrival' cover so they will get me to the ship even if it is at the next port. I would just rather not have to worry in the first place.

 

Time to try Royal again...

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[greatam]

Thank you for all your responses.

 

I didn't have any luck first time phoning RCI. I bought my flights at the same time that we booked this cruise (May 2011) so no schedules were available, I assume my flights are booked with Choice Air even though i didn't book them directly with them but with RCI?

 

Choice Air is DIY and if you (or a TA) didn't book the flights separately on the Choice Air website and pay in advance for those tickets, I am making a guess that you bought a European "package"-pay for cruise and flights all at one time.

 

Different rules apply for European passengers under EU rules covering air delays and package tours. You SHOULD be protected for transport to the next port if you miss the ship. Here is a pretty good run down of air transport rules for EU passengers. The first-a "newsy" easy to read version. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4267095.stm

 

The second-with all the citations and references.

http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/contact_us/faq/air_travel/index_en.htm

 

You still have to deal with the "packager", which in this case is RCI. Good luck but I sure wouldn't count on getting that flight changed without a fee.

 

AND because you are on a transatlantic arriving in the USA, USA rules for disposition of the manifest apply (90 minutes to 2 hours, depending on cruise line rules). The USA wants to know EXACTLY who is on the ship and the manifest must be run through DHS databases before the ship departs. Same thing with airline manifests and why once in a while a NY/PH/ATL/MIA, etc. etc. bound plane from Europe ends up landing in Maine or Nova Scotia with law enforcement surrounding the plane. One of the many, many USA databases turned up a passenger name after the plane was cleared for take off. The USA government wants that passenger off the plane and not allowed entry into the USA. The most famous example is Cat Stevens but it happens about 10-15 times per year according to my internal airline sources. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3678694.stm

 

It could totally reek havoc with a sailing to have to divert the ship to Nova Scotia or Quebec because someone hadn't been cleared before boarding.

 

Check with RCI to find out if your tickets were booked on one ticket or two (UK to Spain, separate ticket from MIA to UK). IF two, you may do better purchasing your own ticket from the UK to Spain than trying to get RCI to do anything for other than FREE. But if it is one ticket, you don't take the first flight segment, your entire ticket will be cancelled.

 

I wish you well.

[waterbug123]

And what many fail to understand is that there is a potential trade off for getting such a discount. In the case of Choice Air, that trade off is often something along the lines of not being able to change the ticket, as the terms and conditions of that super discounted (i.e. "specially negotiated" or consolidator rate) ticket is that changes can't be made. There is a certain truth to "you get what you pay for."

Caveat Emptor

 

I think almost everyone understands that.

 

Apparently not, based on many of the posts in this thread and other similar threads about Choice Air. There seem to be MANY people who think they can buy a ticket from Choice Air for half the price the airline is charging to book directly, but fail to see that the ticket is any different, i.e. that there are potential trade offs.

[Giorgi-one]

Never fly to port on same day you cruise!

[greatam]

Apparently not, based on many of the posts in this thread and other similar threads about Choice Air. There seem to be MANY people who think they can buy a ticket from Choice Air for half the price the airline is charging to book directly, but fail to see that the ticket is any different, i.e. that there are potential trade offs.

 

I have to laugh. They are at it again in this thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1678660

 

LOVE the reference to the Choice Air sticky.

[Kellie Poodle]

Choice Air is not the most helpful of ways to book a flight. If something changes (like here) or goes wrong, you're often in a lot stickier of a situation than if you booked directly with the airline. RCI probably has little desire to help because they've already made their money off of you.

 

I had booked a flight with Choice Air for a Cape Horn sailing in January. When, on the return trip, our luggage got waylayed in Lima, Peru, the airline's lost luggage people were in Asia and I could not understand them. I called Choice Air took they care of everything and had the airlines call me directly with information on my luggage.

 

I have to say I got better service from Choice Air than I got from the airline and from any local travel agent, either.

 

YMMV but I am totally satisfied with them

[Kellie Poodle]

You may be in complete control of your reservation on the Choice Air website and being able to pick your seats. BUT IF there is a problem AND you got one of the "cheap" flights on Choice Air, you will most likely have to deal with Choice Air for changes or problems. YOU are NOT the airline customer. Choice Air is.

 

 

If that is true, than why did the Choice Air rep give me the phone number of Air France to call if I had any problems with getting seats assigned.

 

For the flight I just booked, I had to go on the web site and choose my own seats. Since the flight is ticketed through Delta, I did it on the Delta site, but the Air France site also let me in to change seats if I wanted to.

 

Both airlines allowed me to enter extra data regarding wheel chairs.

 

I have read over every tiny detail of the Choice Air documents for my RT flight to Venice in October and there is no small print that says anything like what you state. It definitely directs the ticket holder to go through the airlines for everything.

 

Choice Air also has a phone number for their "Emergency Travel Team" that is toll-free.

 

I keep seeing these admonitions and they are not making sense with the information I have and the experience I have had. I must be missing something.

[Kellie Poodle]

We must have lucked out, because our tickets, purchased through Choice Air, in Business/First for our upcoming flight over to London are refundable, but with a cancellation fee of $175pp. Not bad when you consider the cost of the tickets.:D

 

 

I just bought RT tickets to Venice for our 10/15/12 sailing and they are also refundable for $175pp.

 

The flights I have do show on the airline's web site for over $50 more per person, but did not show on any of the multiple line sites. Not even on ITA.

[Kellie Poodle]

OBVIOUSLY, you didn't comprehend this part. "SPECIAL RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines"

 

"PUBLISHED fares are MORE EXPENSIVE"

 

You are generally NOT getting the same ticket. You are NOT getting a published fare ticket with all the perks and benefits.

 

What "perks and benefits" am I missing? I get FF miles from Choice Air bookings. If they are giving out (so-called) meals, I get them, too. The flight attendant doesn't know I got my ticket through Choice Air or 'Mom & Pop Travel Agency down the street.

 

I'm flying with Air France. They usually serve wine with dinner. Are they not going to serve me wine because I got my ticket through Choice Air?

 

I'm really at a loss here trying to understand how my tickets are inferior. I understand how Choice Air can sell them cheaper than "published rates" but what I don't understand is why it's bad for ME when I save money.

[waterbug123]

What "perks and benefits" am I missing? I get FF miles from Choice Air bookings. If they are giving out (so-called) meals, I get them, too. The flight attendant doesn't know I got my ticket through Choice Air or 'Mom & Pop Travel Agency down the street.

 

I'm flying with Air France. They usually serve wine with dinner. Are they not going to serve me wine because I got my ticket through Choice Air?

 

I'm really at a loss here trying to understand how my tickets are inferior. I understand how Choice Air can sell them cheaper than "published rates" but what I don't understand is why it's bad for ME when I save money.

 

I believe the "perks and benefits" Greatam was referring to are things like the ability to be rerouted, the ability to have your ticket endorsed over to another airline etc., all things which CAN be very important in the event of flight disruptions, and things that are NOT allowed with ALL Choice Air tickets. It has nothing to do with getting a meal or not. If everything goes fine with the flights, then no- it's not bad for you to save money. And if your Choice Air ticket is one that doesn't not happen to have strict restrictions attached to it, that's not bad either. The problem is that you will probably never know if your ticket comes with such restrictions unless or until there are problems, and by then it's too late.

[Kellie Poodle]

I believe the "perks and benefits" Greatam was referring to are things like the ability to be rerouted, the ability to have your ticket endorsed over to another airline etc., all things which CAN be very important in the event of flight disruptions, and things that are NOT allowed with ALL Choice Air tickets. It has nothing to do with getting a meal or not. If everything goes fine with the flights, then no- it's not bad for you to save money. And if your Choice Air ticket is one that doesn't not happen to have strict restrictions attached to it, that's not bad either. The problem is that you will probably never know if your ticket comes with such restrictions unless or until there are problems, and by then it's too late.

 

Okay. It's getting a little clearer. Since I usually purchase the cheapest class of flights even when buying directly from the airlines, I'm not getting any of the abilities you cite anyway. That's what travel insurance is for.

 

Having spent some time working in the field of law, I cannot comprehend how a person can be bound by provisions that they have not specifically agreed to. Shouldn't the buyer be made aware of potential snafus with Choice Air tickets? The web site only speaks to non-refundable and non-transferable, just as do the web sites of the airlines when you buy low category tickets from them.

 

It would seem that a lot of people who had unhappy experiences would be litigating because they were kept in the dark about the provisions on their tickets. Tickets are contracts and it might be tortious to hide the ramifications of a contract from the purchaser, wouldn't you think?

[greatam]

Okay. It's getting a little clearer. Since I usually purchase the cheapest class of flights even when buying directly from the airlines, I'm not getting any of the abilities you cite anyway. That's what travel insurance is for.

 

Sorry, incorrect information. 99% of tickets sold direct from the airline are re-routable and endorsable. They are ALL published fare tickets. It is rare indeed that airline direct tickets prohibit those provisions. But quite a few of the Choice Air tickets do, especially the CHEAPEST that so many brag about purchasing.

 

And airline direct tickets have a link to the COMPLETE FARE RULES. If in doubt, read through the COMPLETE fare rules BEFORE you click the box that says you accept these terms and condition or click pay. You generally CANNOT see the COMPLETE fare rules on Choice Air tickets. What is presented is a VERY abbreviated version. Did you read though my post that explains exactly how the CHEAPEST of the CHOICE AIR tickets are purchased by the cruise line and how they are sold to consumers?. The RULES on those tickets can be ANYTHING the airline and the cruise line agree to. Troy, in the Choice Air sticky, admitted as such. The wording was "even the contracted ones are similar.". Similar is a far cry from the same and those two provisions-endorsable and re-routable could be the difference between making it to your cruise and not.

 

If you don't know how long and involved COMPLETE fare rules are, take a look at this thread. There are two examples posted-one for AA and one for SWISS. The Swiss version is MUCH easier to read. And right in the FARE RULES is the rule-RE ROUTING PERMITTED. You won't find that in many of the Choice Air tickets. In fact, you are darn lucky to find much more on the Choice Air website than luggage is allowed, you may have to pay a fee for luggage and the ticket is non transferable. Those are NOT complete fare rules.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1674373

 

 

 

Having spent some time working in the field of law, I cannot comprehend how a person can be bound by provisions that they have not specifically agreed to. Shouldn't the buyer be made aware of potential snafus with Choice Air tickets? The web site only speaks to non-refundable and non-transferable, just as do the web sites of the airlines when you buy low category tickets from them.

 

It would seem that a lot of people who had unhappy experiences would be litigating because they were kept in the dark about the provisions on their tickets. Tickets are contracts and it might be tortious to hide the ramifications of a contract from the purchaser, wouldn't you think?

 

A lot of times you have to tick the box "I accept the terms and conditions" and when you do, you have relieved the seller of any liability.

 

There is a lot of info out there, just have to do some research to find it. Most of it has been posted verbatim on the Cruise Air forum over and over. But this, from the Celebrity Choice Air website should make everyone sit up and take notice:"Airline tickets we issue are highly restrictive and you may find that your ticket cannot be exchanged, reissued or revalidated for another carrier or routing." THAT little statement is in the fine print that very few read. All the mumbo jumbo on the various websites about Choice Air and in a font people do read contains a LOT of lawyer weasel words.

[Kellie Poodle]

The Cruise Air web site states that their tickets are "published fares"

 

I copied and pasted to another thread. Scroll down a couple.

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1678660&page=2

[ollienbertsmum]

right you say "what can I do?" Well I say you must stop worrying. You are being over generous with your timing, so on a typical day you will make the ship. If not - well you have been told that you will get to the next port. It is not a short cruise so missing the first day will be an irritation but don't let the thought spoil the build up for you. Maybe next time you will fly in the day before but not everyone can afford the dish or the time off work. So officially I am telling you - stop worrying, but do come back after the cruise and tell us how it went.

 

Thank you for all your responses.

 

I am guessing about 3 hours just from previous experiences with airports, transfers and embarkation. My flight Departs London Heathrow at 9:20am and arrives in Barcelona at 12:25pm. I'm thinking towards 1pm by the time the plane is at the gate and people are actually getting off, 2pm to clear customs and go through baggage collection and then 3pm - 3:30 for the transfer bus to fill up, transfer to ship and go through the embarkation process.

 

I hope I'm wrong and it doesn't take so long. I've been told I have the 'Assured Arrival' cover so they will get me to the ship even if it is at the next port. I would just rather not have to worry in the first place.

Paul

[greatam]

The Cruise Air web site states that their tickets are "published fares"

 

I copied and pasted to another thread. Scroll down a couple.

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1678660&page=2

 

Please re-read the ENTIRE sentence.

 

"Unlike the legacy air/sea model, customers select their own flights from all published airline schedules and fare types."

 

What it states is you can select your flight from "all published SCHEDULES and fare TYPES", NOT all published FARES.

 

As Waterbug123 stated in that thread- "They do a great job of implying that, but if you read what's really written, rather than what you would like to assume it means, it doesn't say that at all."

 

Even the Sticky that was posted about Choice Air admits that the BARGAINS are on the "specially negotiated fares" and that NOT ALL the options offered are PUBLISHED FARES.

 

"On many routes, you will also find some special RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines. These rates are especially good when shopping closer in, traveling internationally - and even more-so on open jaw (Fly into one city and out of a different city) or one way trips, when many published fares are more expensive."

 

You can believe the mumbo jumbo posted on a website (as Kenish calls it in this thread-"ad copy").

 

You can believe what is posted on the Celebrity Choice Air website-"Airline tickets we issue are highly restrictive and you may find that your ticket cannot be exchanged, reissued or revalidated for another carrier or routing."

 

Or you can believe the overriding contract which covers ALL things related to your cruise-"All arrangements made for or by Passenger for transportation (other than on the

Vessel or on any Transport owned or operated by RCT in connection with a RCT

Land Tour) before, during or after the Cruise or CruiseTour of any kind whatsoever, as well as air arrangements, shore excursions, tours, hotels, restaurants,attractions and other similar activities or services, including all related conveyances,products or facilities, are made solely for Passenger’s convenience and are at Passenger’s risk".

 

The cruise contract is what one would go to court on. And once you pay for the cruise, you ACCEPTED the cruise contract.

 

If you STILL don't believe the provisions of endorsement and re-routing are VERY, VERY important please read through this thread. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1398770&highlight=us+airways

 

When we finally figured out that the lady had Choice Air tickets, we KNEW she just had to wait in Omaha UNTIL there was another US Air flight to Philadelphia. The FARE RULES on her tickets prevented the airline from putting her on another airline (as others on the same flight were) OR re-routing her any place other than Philadelphia (others were also re-routed on US Air flights).

 

None of the frequent posters on the Cruise Air forum care less where anyone buys their airline tickets. But we all believe that consumers should be educated and KNOW what they are buying. All airline tickets are NOT alike, even in the same fare category-ie, not all L, Q, S. O, T, U, etc. etc. tickets are the same. It is all the numbers and letters AFTER the fare category that designate the RULES. So when you buy strictly on price, you may have underlying fare rules which leave you in deep doo doo. And if you can't read the ENTIRE fare rules, how do you even know what you are buying??

[EGG]

First I would call the cruise line and find out what the latest time you can board is. Then you should know that it is about 20 minutes from the airport to the pier if you take a taxi. (I know nothing about rush hour, I just remember it is a short drive). Find out if you have to clear customs. Add time to get off plane which can be 20 minutes if you are in the back and add time to walk through the airport.

 

Pack as much as you can in carryons. You should clear onto the plane with a roller carryon and a large backpack. Carefully choose the essentials to stuff in those bags. You can buy t-shirts, sweatshirts and sweatpants on board. Wear your heaviest sneakers, jeans/pants, and layer a t-shirt, top, and jacket on the plane. If you have one larger bag between you and spouse, I wonder if the plane is late landing and you do not see the cruiseline rep at the luggage pickup, if you can leave the luggage at the airport rather than wait for luggage. Grab a cab. Call the airline before you get on the ship and tell them you couldn't find your luggage and you panicked and didn't stop to fill out paperwork because you would miss your cruise. Of course make sure you have all the phone numbers with you and your bags are properly labeled, with your itinerary inside the bag. Know there is the possibility you may not get your bag for the cruise.

 

I met 2 separate couples on a 15 day HAL Hawaii cruise and 1 on a 15 day Princess Panama Canal cruise that travel with nothing but carryons. The big difference is that Royal does not have a laundry and you would be washing in the sink constantly and spending more than you probably want on ships laundry.

 

Curious if anyone else thinks this could work if the flight is delayed an hour or two.