Aussies being ripped off, price gorging and the ACCC.

[fishtaco]

You need to get your facts straight!

 

I have recently sailed on 3 Cunard ships - and you can indeed have the "automatic" gratuities removed from your onboard account. I have also recently booked an RCCL cruise and there are no "automatic" gratuities applied, except for those choosing to do "anytime dining"

 

Barry

 

Yes and Carnival USA allows you to remove them as well.!

 

Den

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

If someone discusses how much they've paid and mention a figure less than mine I feel it not right to announce to them that mine was cheaper.

 

We were talking to these two lovely ladies one morning. It was their first cruise and they were thrilled with everything, and said 'and we only paid $2100.00 each for our Inside cabin because we're travelling with a large group. The cruise was only for 11 days, and in my book that's way too expensive but I wasn't going to burst their bubble.

 

Jilly:)

 

Yep.... on our first cruise we were jipped! I think we paid $3300AU (we booked through HWT) each for balcony on a 12 night to the islands :eek: We thought we were so lucky to be able to purchase an upgrade into a mini suite for another $500 (total $3520 each). We learnt reaaaaally fast, now we aim for pricing around $100US for insides and go from there.

[Aus Traveller]

Yep.... on our first cruise we were jipped! I think we paid $3300AU (we booked through HWT) each for balcony on a 12 night to the islands :eek: We thought we were so lucky to be able to purchase an upgrade into a mini suite for another $500 (total $3520 each). We learnt reaaaaally fast' date=' now we aim for pricing around $100US for insides and go from there.[/quote']

Don't worry - I think most people pay too much for their first cruise.

 

We cruised for years on the Fairstar, and the only way to book that we found was to pay the brochure fare. That was around $200 pp per night (twin share) 28 years ago. Fares are much lower now if you take inflation into account and we can get prices significantly lower than brochure fare by shopping around.:)

[Oz_Steve]

If I make a booking it's because I am happy with the price vs product supplied.

 

If there is a sale then I will attempt to get a better deal but if I don't then I'm still happy as I was satisfied with the original price.

 

If you don't think your getting a good deal then don't book! The prices will drop or the ships will leave if passengers are not buying tickets. It's all about supply and demand.

 

I used to work for an international 5 Star hotel chain, my rates to stay in the top of the line hotels ($400 + a night) was $69 but if it was peak season then I risked being bumped or to guarantee the accom I might be required to pay the best available rate.

 

It's always my choice whether I book and pay and the conditions under which I do it. it's always a trade off between price and conditions. I travel solo most of the time so I'm paying double what most people pay twin share, and I'm happy with what I get.

 

So to be blunt stop your complaining and get out and enjoy your holiday. If you don't think it's worth it then don't book it.

 

To be blunt if you are stupid enough to be happy with inferior conditions (always) and pricing (almost always) then good luck to you. If others aren't then good luck to them. That is the advantage of a free society. People are free to talk about inequity as much as they like, if you aren't happy about it exercise your democratic right to go elsewhere.

 

Have a nice day.

[GHDPeter]

Fair enough OZSteve, but after 14 pages of posts I don't see any evidence being put forward inline with the OP.

 

Just alot of people complaining about the pricing variations of different cruises in different countries by different companies to different passengers.

 

I hope you have a fantastic day too.:D

[Oz_Steve]

You must have missed the bits where there was discussions about different terms and conditions (and pricing) for the same cruises at the same time. It might have been on another thread but there was also discussion about arbitrary 'deposits' and 'cancellation fees' applied by Ausie TAs but not by US ones. Do you also think it is right that it costs more to download a song on iTunes in Aus than in the US off the same infrastructure? Globalisation is a two way street.

[paddingtonbear]

Fair enough OZSteve, but after 14 pages of posts I don't see any evidence being put forward inline with the OP.

 

Just alot of people complaining about the pricing variations of different cruises in different countries by different companies to different passengers.

 

I hope you have a fantastic day too.:D

 

You haven't been reading the thread very thoroughly. We are talking about the difference between the same cruise, same cabin, same day of purchase bought through Princess Australia or bought through an American or Canadian TA being between $50 to $200 a night less (including taxes, port fees etc). If I get more specific this thread will be deleted. It won't change until Australians stop accepting the discrepancy.

 

The ACCC says they can't stop anyone charging Australians whatever they want but they suggest Australians vote with their feet and make the most of the internet to maximise their opportunities.

[NSWP]

Ah, was that you waiving frantically to us on the Radiance to be rescued:)

Passing Arcadia off Portland between Adelaide and Melbourne 12 Mar 2012

Twas me waving, I recollect passing Radiance. Thanks for the pic.

[NSWP]

But how would the Aussies have felt if the Poms paid less than they did?? The Aussies would have been less than impressed and then they would have complained on CC and anywhere else they could. :)

You are right. That is why I kept my mouth shut on Arcadia re pricing, but some did not, hence our British friends getting a little cranky with us Colonials. 'Not our fault' I said..P&O set the prices.

[iRate]

OK as the OP my apologies for not having updated this thread of late as I've been away cruising along with waiting for replies from the ACCC and the management of the cruises lines concerned.

 

All of which have now arrived and I am now in a position to give you all an update along with providing documentary evidence that many of you have asked for.

 

We now getting to the 'business end' of this issue.

 

The ACCC have just stepped in and hauled Air Asia before the Federal Court. for advertising fares for transportation exclusive of taxes, fees and charges - (component pricing) which is specifically banned by Australian Consumer Protection Legislation. The ACCC was successful and Air Asia has just been fined $200000.00.

 

I'm elated by this because the facts in that Air Asia case are exactly what I've talking about here in this thread - that some of the cruise lines have been engaged in exactly the same conduct.

 

Some back ground - for those who don't want to go back and read the whole thread - basically over the last couple of years a number of cruise lines have been advertising on the initial pages of their Australian websites fares as being 'from' a certain price.

 

(NB the figures below are used only by way as an example - not exact figures)

 

EG 10 night cruise - Interior Cabin 'From' $1000.

 

So then as you work your way through the booking process you click through a number of pages to select the cheapest Interior Cabin still listed at $1000 per person.

 

All good so far.

 

Then just prior to the payment stage the Total fare magically jumps to $2700.

 

When you look at a summary of the charges you see they added as additional amounts - Government Fees, Taxes and Charges.

 

This is called 'Component Pricing' and this exactly what Air Asia was doing and got fined for.

 

I've got loads of screen captures about all of this which I will post when I get time.

 

For now here is an article published yesterday in Plane Talking (An amazing blog worth a read everyday) which details what happened in the Air Asia case.

 

___________________________________________________________

 

Author: Ben Sandilands

 

AirAsia fined for obvious attempt to screw Australian consumers with illegal on-line fare offers.

 

AirAsia has been fined $200,000 in the Federal Court in Melbourne for contravening the single pricing provision of the Australian Consumer Law.

 

The prosecution, instigated by the ACCC, established that the trans border low fare franchise did not for almost a year display on its website some of its airfares inclusive of all taxes, duties, fees and other mandatory charges in a prominent way and as a single figure.

 

This looked like an A-grade deliberate attempt to screw Australian consumers, given that it is both implausible and indefensible for a company as experienced and successful as AirAsia to be ignorant of Australian law.

 

It is also a reminder that in many other parts of the world, bait pricing is legal, and airfares sold on-line often appear with prominent or headline fares that are totally misleading in that they do not include a range of statutory fees and charges which must be collected by airline at the moment of purchase.

 

They can be additionally misleading if the airline fails to prominently disclose extra charges which in some cases cannot be avoided by the passenger, such a charge for printing out your own boarding pass, and an even bigger charge at the airport if you have don’t turn up with it. The weasel words to look out for in English include ‘convenience charges’, and at times lend themselves to a Jonathan Clees type parody about charging fee fees, or Fifi’s.

 

This case is interesting in Australia because of the rise of opt in fees for checked luggage, pre-purchased meals, entertainment packages and so forth. At the moment it could be argued that Qantas, which includes entertainment, refreshments, and even the odd meal, in all its fares, is disadvantaged compared to those airlines which list them as extras.

 

The disadvantage is said to be overcome by the way in which Virgin Australia, for example, places a $ amount and symbol on its booking screens to indicate checked luggage charges. But at the point where longer haul flights on say Scoot or Jetstar or AirAsiaX come with seat only, seat with bag, seat with meals + bag and so forth, the legally displayed prominent fare isn’t directly comparable to the full service inclusive fares on Singapore Airlines, or Qantas, or Cathay Pacific to name but a few.

 

At some point in the future the difference between the base fare on some carriers, and the all inclusive fare on others, could get to a stage where the fare display rules need to be revisited to give some more meaningful way of assessing equivalent value.

 

How urgent that need might become depends on whether or not the full service carriers here start to fragment their fare calculations the way Air New Zealand does with its spectrum of fare options from ‘seat only’ to ‘the works’, all of them seated in economy.

[dingoboy]

Couldn't agree more!

 

Lets hope the ACCC take similar action in this case.

[dingoboy]

Another way that we are ripped off is in price loading: If you have booked and paid via a cruise line Australian based website chances are you have paid many hundreds of dollars extra.

 

As far as I can determine all of the cruise lines operating in Australia are engaged in price gorging.

 

I've just done a few quick searches and celebrity for one are adding at the very least $400 per person to fares they charge Australians for exactly the same cruise and category to what they charge on their own overseas websites.

 

In other categories its many times more. But even on the basis of the just $400 p/p that means Aussies are being slugged almost $1000 per cabin extra.

 

On the bigger ships now based here with say 1500 cabins filled predominately with Aussies that means we are being ripped off potentially to the tune of $1500000.

[GHDPeter]

Which Australian websites of cruise lines are doing component pricing?

[Aus Traveller]

Some back ground - for those who don't want to go back and read the whole thread - basically over the last couple of years a number of cruise lines have been advertising on the initial pages of their Australian websites fares as being 'from' a certain price.

 

(NB the figures below are used only by way as an example - not exact figures)

 

EG 10 night cruise - Interior Cabin 'From' $1000.

 

So then as you work your way through the booking process you click through a number of pages to select the cheapest Interior Cabin still listed at $1000 per person.

 

All good so far. Then just prior to the payment stage the Total fare magically jumps to $2700. When you look at a summary of the charges you see they added as additional amounts - Government Fees, Taxes and Charges.

When I have seen a cruise fare advertised with the word "from" it means the cheapest fare - a four-berth inside cabin in the cheapest category. I understand and accept that. I haven't seen a cruise advertised in Aust where the "from (base) price" then has Government fees, taxes and charges added. Could you please tell me which cruiseline here advertised in this way. I know that this form of advertising is common on cruises advertised in USA, although I believe they are changing over to a complete price.

[rugbypopsie]

The other common practice which I am sure contravenes Australian consumer protection laws is the "40% off" you frequently see on brochures, emails etc. Australian law says they have to display the cost that the 40% off is based on...otherwise the discount is pure fiction...which it usually is.

 

None of this takes away from consumers needing to do their homework, you need to take everything into account before you part with your money, including the cancellation fees etc.

 

By the way "tip" is an optional additional payment...I wish it would be called what it is...."wage subsidy". If I book in Australia and its included in the fare cost, that's fine, if I am booked on an overseas line or through an overseas agent then I leave the "hotel charge/tip/wage subsidy" in place as do many many other Australians. Absolutely sick to death of having our culture pilloried because what we see as a "tip" and what the US have come to see as necessary to ensure their workers get a reasonable wage..its entirely different.

Please bear in mind when you think Australia is expensive...you wont need to put your hand in your pocket every time someone opens a door, picks up a bag or drops a plate in front of you...gratuities are included when you travel here..if you want to additionally reward excellent service that is fine too.

 

This discussion is important please don't let it degenerate into nastiness.

Sue

 

 

 

[bazzaw]

I have never seen "component pricing" used in cruise fares here in Australia.

 

Barry

[Kiwi Kruzer]

No one is being forced to go on a cruise.

 

Its actually your own money and you have the discretion to spend it as you wish.

 

While you are on the net buying your so called cheap cruise , and doing your fellow countrymen out of jobs,

why not place an order for a new car in the States as well . Americans can buy cars a lot cheaper than we can.

 

I don't see anyone whinging about that.

 

Cruise fares ...even in Australian dollars , are the cheapest they have ever been.

 

Get out there and enjoy , instead of throwing your toys out of the pram .

 

 

 

 

[bazzaw]

No one is being forced to go on a cruise.

 

Its actually your own money and you have the discretion to spend it as you wish.

 

While you are on the net buying your so called cheap cruise , and doing your fellow countrymen out of jobs,

why not place an order for a new car in the States as well . Americans can buy cars a lot cheaper than we can.

 

I don't see anyone whinging about that.

 

Cruise fares ...even in Australian dollars , are the cheapest they have ever been.

 

Get out there and enjoy , instead of throwing your toys out of the pram .

 

 

 

 

 

AGREE!! - and also be very, very careful what you wish for !!!

 

Barry

[rugbypopsie]

I would much prefer to spend my money with local agents...but while cruise lines do not give our local agents the same flexibility with booking conditions and prices I don't see why I should part with more money that I need to.....

 

Good service gets your loyalty..but if all a local agent is going to do is to phone up and place a booking...I can do that.

 

I do check prices and if they are close I do go with a local..just for convenience.

 

However recently the two dayer on the Radiance was $500 USD booked in the US and $369 AUD for a balcony in Aus..even though I had booked o/s when the cruise was first listed I was able to cancel without any problem or penalty and rebook here...that is not always the case with local bookings. It is slowly changing and I think that is due to us saying we wont stand for being ripped off.

 

Sue

 

 

[dougo in oz]

Great to see the thread updated, but I don't know how successful it will be ... read this in Cruise Weekly (18 December 2012) yesterday :-See the cut and paste below :-

 

"Australia joins global cruise body

 

The International Cruise Council Australasia is one of nine national cruise industry associations that have today merged into a new united force.

 

THE new organisation, Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), has been formed to act as the voice of the global cruise industry, to improve coordination and communication, and to serve as a one-stop resource for the world's cruise lines and travel agents.

 

Under the move, ICCA will be rebranded next year as Cruise Lines International Association Australasia (CLIAA). The body's eight other members include North America's Cruise Lines International Association

 

(CLIA), the UK's Passenger Shipping Association (PSA/ACE), European Cruise Council (ECC), Asia Cruise Association (ACA), France's AFCC, Brazil's ABREMAR, Northwest and Canada Cruise Assn (NWCCA) and Alaska Cruise Association (ACA).

 

ICCA's Sydney-based Chairman Gavin Smith and GM Brett Jardine will maintain their roles and report to the Australasian board as well as to the new global CEO of CLIA, Christine Duffy.

 

Smith said the transformation of ICCA reflected the continuing growth of the cruise industry, both locally and globally. “Australasia is the fastest growing cruise market in the world, with cruise lines from around the globe sailing in our waters and carrying our passengers on cruises across the world, so it makes enormous sense for us to join with our international counterparts and create a cohesive global partnership,” he said.

 

“This new structure will strengthen the cruise industry's voice in Australia and NZ and provide greater resources for the benefit of our travel agent and cruise line members."

 

CLIA will be governed by a Global Executive Committee, chaired by Howard Frank, Vice Chairman, Chief Operating Officer of Carnival Corporation."

 

IMO, Carnival Corp has much to lose if the ACCC steps in as it has with Air Asia, and as for the "new structure will strengthen the cruise industry's voice in Australia and NZ and provide greater resources for the benefit of our travel agent and cruise line members" ... interesting that they forgot about the paying passengers.

[avalon007]

Timing is often a big factor in what you end up paying, our cruise in Jan 2013 was $800 more expensive when quoted to us in March on board Radiance, then 1 month later I noticed the price had dropped on the Royal web site, so I booked.

 

Since then the price went back up again.

 

I also got lucky & received a $200 discount using a C&A member cruise discount voucher.

 

Sure I would like to see a price drop overall, who wouldn't, but at the end of the day, I choose to cruise & choose wether to pay the price or not & won't hold my breath for any change soon.

 

Also, if it means less crusiing choices out of Australia if we get lower prices I would rather pay more & keep my options open.

 

Interesting comparison also is I have booked some cruises in Alaska, Hawaii & a repositioning cruise back to Sydney for later in 2013 & the daily cost for each of these cruises is well in excess of my cruise out of Sydney on the same cruise line. Plus I have to add on an airfare on top of that.

 

Gee, hope those C&A discount vouchers come out for those cruises as well!

[fishtaco]

G'day all,

 

As a big time cruiser I am getting more and more incensed by the big cruise lines coming down here to Australia expecting our patronage and loyalty while at the same time having a discriminatory pricing model that means that Australians are more times than not, being charged 'significantly more' than residents of north America.

 

By significant I refer to price gorging which in many cases represents thousands of dollars on what they expect Australians to pay compared to people who book from the USA.

 

And I'm talking here about comparing apples for apples, for exactly the same ship, itinerary and cabin category. And this price gorging is even happening on cruises that don't even touch Australian ports.

 

 

 

After several long chats to the ACCC help line I have determined that there are specific instances where the cruises lines are currently in breech of Australian corporate and competition law.

 

In other instances where their pricing policies are technically within the law they only get away with such practices because they figure that most Aussies won't actually be smart enough to figure out what they are doing - and even if we do, they have obviously made a calculated decision that there is not much we can do about it even if we do find out.

 

Well I'm here to tell them otherwise.

 

Someone once told me that sunlight is more times than not, the best medicine. And that's what I intend to do here, shine light on the dirty little secrets the cruise lines are hiding from Australians.

 

I want to use this thread to document the current (legal but dubious) price gorging practices of these cruise lines and more importantly get solid evidence of illegal practices that we can forward to the ACCC so that they can take action on our behalf.

 

This is the course of action recommended to me by the ACCC. Documentation will help them take action and obviously the more we can assemble the better.

 

Over coming days I will be posting here exact details of the current legislation.

 

My understanding of the law is that many people who have booked cruises over recent years from Australia and who have suffered a loss due to polices/procedures that are in breech of legislation could well be entitled to a refund.

 

A significant one.

 

More here shortly when I have time away from day job to start documenting the legislation and specific examples where the law has been breeched.

 

I for one agree with everything you are saying!

 

My story, I logged into RCI.com to book a cruise that i see advertises on line and I booked it!

 

unbeknownst to me I was swapped at booking stage from RCI.com to RCI.com.au:mad:

 

I thought this was just the "Internet" showing me the price in user friendly Australian dollars instead of US dollars:mad:

 

To cut a long story short I paid almost $400 per person including all taxes for an RCI cruise booked from Australia and leaving from an Australian port on RCI than I would have paid if I lived in North America!

 

I know the price difference is correct because i used (After booking) "a private VPN" (Virtual Private Network) to make a mock booking with RCI.com (north America) shortly after i parted with my money and thought something was astray.

 

Without my Knowledge and consent I was automatically switched from a cruise enquiry on RCI.com (north America) to the booking being handled through RCI.com.au (Australia)

 

$800 worse off I have fell victim to internet fraud devised by a cruiseline company plain and simple.

 

Anyone booking any cruise should without a doubt use a "Private VPN" and you will be able to secure the much lower "North American" price.

 

A private VPN will not allow the company to associate you with any demographic or area of the world by your internet servers location.

 

And I did say that both prices were with taxes added!:rolleyes:

 

RCI after many emails couldnt give a Sh@#.I will enjoy of course my overcharged RCI cruise but for RCI policy I dont give a SH@# and company policy like included or suggested tips, Well now thats their policy not mine.:p

 

Den

[The_Big_M]

Interesting comparison also is I have booked some cruises in Alaska, Hawaii & a repositioning cruise back to Sydney for later in 2013 & the daily cost for each of these cruises is well in excess of my cruise out of Sydney on the same cruise line. Plus I have to add on an airfare on top of that.

 

It's great to hear the other perspective too.

[Feen Machine]

G'day all,

 

As a big time cruiser I am getting more and more incensed by the big cruise lines coming down here to Australia expecting our patronage and loyalty while at the same time having a discriminatory pricing model that means that Australians are more times than not, being charged 'significantly more' than residents of north America.

 

By significant I refer to price gorging which in many cases represents thousands of dollars on what they expect Australians to pay compared to people who book from the USA.

 

And I'm talking here about comparing apples for apples, for exactly the same ship, itinerary and cabin category. And this price gorging is even happening on cruises that don't even touch Australian ports.

 

After several long chats to the ACCC help line I have determined that there are specific instances where the cruises lines are currently in breech of Australian corporate and competition law.

 

In other instances where their pricing policies are technically within the law they only get away with such practices because they figure that most Aussies won't actually be smart enough to figure out what they are doing - and even if we do, they have obviously made a calculated decision that there is not much we can do about it even if we do find out.

 

Well I'm here to tell them otherwise.

 

Someone once told me that sunlight is more times than not, the best medicine. And that's what I intend to do here, shine light on the dirty little secrets the cruise lines are hiding from Australians.

 

I want to use this thread to document the current (legal but dubious) price gorging practices of these cruise lines and more importantly get solid evidence of illegal practices that we can forward to the ACCC so that they can take action on our behalf.

 

This is the course of action recommended to me by the ACCC. Documentation will help them take action and obviously the more we can assemble the better.

 

Over coming days I will be posting here exact details of the current legislation and then we will use this lobby the ACCC to take action.

 

My understanding of the law is that many people who have booked over recent years from Australia and who have suffered a loss due to polices/procedures that are in breech of legislation could well be in titled to a refund.

 

A significant one.

 

More here shortly when I have time away from day job to start documenting the legislation and specific examples where the law has been breeched.

Hi

I support everything you say ,go for it ,I hope something can be done about this problem, it is not fare.:rolleyes:

[paddingtonbear]

Interesting comparison also is I have booked some cruises in Alaska, Hawaii & a repositioning cruise back to Sydney for later in 2013 & the daily cost for each of these cruises is well in excess of my cruise out of Sydney on the same cruise line. Plus I have to add on an airfare on top of that.

 

The important distinction is whether you booked the alaskan and hawaiian cruises through australian travel agents/websites or through US or Canadian travel agents/websites. For the same cruise the US and canadian travel agents can save you $000's per person at some stage in the lead up to the cruise (not talking about last minute deals).

 

The americans have price drops that we don't get.