Aussies being ripped off, price gorging and the ACCC.

[dingoboy]

Exactly . Thats why they are always shown as a seperate item.

 

 

In New Zealand yes.

 

But again we are not talking about NZ.

 

As many others have pointed out to you.

[dingoboy]

Welcome to the WWW

 

Celebrity's website is not in Australia and therefore does not have to comply with Australian consumer laws regards all inclusive pricing.

 

When you go to Celebrity's website, it will detect your IP's location then direct you to a region specific page on their international website. Whilst it may be displaying a page specific to Australian based consumers, the website itself is NOT in Australia and the website need only comply with all relevant local laws of the state/country it is based in.

 

Different to the Celebrity Cruises Travel brochure printed for the Australian market that DOES have all inclusive room prices (port fees and taxes included. Not hidden or added after).

 

The law is very specific. And applies in this case because they are selling directly to Australian consumers.

 

Proof of the scope and reach of the law is in the fine handed out to Air Asia.

 

A foreign owned and operated company selling directly to Australians.

 

I agree many online transactions are not covered by Australian consumer law.

 

But in this case, as with Air Asia they law does indeed apply. The website is tailored specifically so that Australians can purchase from it.

 

Which is different to Aussies buying products from online stores set up to sell only to say the US domestic market.

 

We are talking multinational cruise lines here not little eBay stores.

 

Hence why the ACCC and the federal court threw the book at Air Asia. It simply would happen if there was no breech of Australian law.

[Beejay4016]

Air Asia Berhad to pay $200,000 penalty for breaching the Australian Consumer Law

The Federal Court in Melbourne has imposed a penalty of $200,000 against Air Asia Berhad for contravening the single pricing provision of the Australian Consumer Law.

 

Air Asia Berhad, for a period of 10 months, did not display on its website (www.airasia.com) some airfare prices inclusive of all taxes, duties, fees and other mandatory charges in a prominent way and as a single figure. The conduct was in relation to the following flights between:

 

Melbourne and Macau, London, Ho Chi Minh City, New Delhi, Hangzhou and Chengdu;

Perth and Taipei, Phuket, Osaka, London, Ho Chi Minh City, and Hangzhou; and

Gold Coast and Ho Chi Minh City.

Air Asia Berhad is a foreign corporation that carries on a business in Australia as a supplier of international air travel services to the Australian public.

 

Under section 48 of the Australian Consumer Law (ACL), businesses that choose to advertise a part of the price of a particular product or service must also prominently specify a single total price.

 

“This ACCC action vindicates the importance of all inclusive pricing. Consumers must have accurate price information, and in turn, airlines require a level playing field on price representations in this competitive industry where consumers are price sensitive,” ACCC chairman Rod Sims said.

 

His Honour Justice Tracey stated that “The principal vice to which s 48 of the ACL is directed is the seductive effect of a quoted price which is lower than the actual amount which the consumer will have to pay in order to receive the relevant service.”

 

“Unless the full price is prominently displayed the consumer may well be attracted to a transaction which he or she would not otherwise have found to be appealing and grudgingly pay the additional imposts rather than go to the trouble of withdrawing from the transaction and looking elsewhere.”

 

“The company which is seeking to attract business in contravention of s 48 will also obtain an advantage over competitors who are compliant.”

 

In addition to the penalty, Justice Tracey made a declaration by consent that Air Asia Berhad contravened section 48 of the Australian Consumer Law. Justice Tracey also accepted a court undertaking from Air Asia Berhad restraining it from engaging in similar conduct for 3 years.

 

But you are still talking about Air Asia. The previous poster was asking you to detail examples of cruise companies or travel agents within Australia engaging in the same practice. I don't think they do. I think it's fairly open here as far as pricing goes, and most people do realise that the "from" price in any category is for the most undesirable cabin within that category, or for a triple. We recently had just that situation where I queried why a cabin seemingly of the same class which we have booked is so much cheaper. The answer, I should have realised, was that the cheap price advertised is for a triple, and so you have to multiply that price by three passengers, not just two. Ditto when you see those cheap as chips P&O prices - they are invariably for quad cabins. I don't think your Air Asia or "from" prices arguements are really relevant to the situation with cruising.

 

Also, you don't need to fudge a fake international ISP to get overseas prices. There are various TAs in the USA and UK which will do bookings for Australians at those cheaper fares. However, they can't do it for all cruise lines. Some cruise lines - Celebrity, RCI for instance - will allow it, but others - HAL, Princess - won't.

[cassamanda]

I have just done a dummy booking on the RCL website on the first Australian cruise that came up on the search results pages. The lowest cruise available is quoted as "from $880". I continued with the booking, selecting the room category (interior) and checked the price total quoted was $1760.80 (2 people). Clicked on the summary of charges which shows the Cruise Fare as $742 pp and Taxes/Fees as $139.40 pp = $880.40 pp. No component pricing here, unless you want to quibble about 40 cents.

 

BTW dirt cheap for a 10 day cruise.

[The_Big_M]

Port charges are generally refunded if a port is missed for any reason.

 

Sue

 

That's not correct. The implementation varies line by line and even cruise by cruise, but many do not refund or credit missed port charges.

[rugbypopsie]

That's not correct. The implementation varies line by line and even cruise by cruise, but many do not refund or credit missed port charges.

 

I did say generally in any case how can any cruise line justify port charges for a port not visited...do they incur charges when they are berthed that port?

 

Sue

[Oz_Steve]

I just got off the Radiance and I can tell you that discriminatory pricing is not only alive and well at the Crown and Anchor booking facility but rigidly (and quite rudely) enforced. The guy at the desk was rude and was only interested in 'taking an order' ie he would book you if you knew exactly which cruise you wanted. He wasn't at all interested in helping you find what might suit you and the parameters available. I was ready to book 4 cabins on a Celebrity Cruise but I wanted some detail on the various cabin levels and wanted to book via the US conditions (the same as I had for the cruise I was actually on via their international desk).

[thied]

its very simple pay or if you not like the price dont pay

[dougo in oz]

I seem to recall that cruise lines don't pay tax to the Australian Government (? Carnival annual report).

 

Until the recently announced increase, port fees were very low.

 

Can you please post a link to the Carnival Annual Report ... I haven't found it as yet !!!

 

Port charges and taxes have never been , and will never be included in the cruise fares.

A port could easily be missed due weather, breakdown, political instability etc ?

 

Good heavens , next you will be wanting all Visas to be included in the cruise fare as well...:eek:

 

 

 

Funny that ... months in advance P&O took a port off the itinerary and did not reduce the cost of the cruise (ie, the total amount due was not reduced by the deletion of a port).

 

And at another time when we missed two ports, no port charges were re-imbursed.

[The_Big_M]

I did say generally in any case how can any cruise line justify port charges for a port not visited...do they incur charges when they are berthed that port?

 

Sue

 

I know you wrote generally, but from what I've seen it's in the minority so I don't agree that's accurate.

 

As for justification they just refer to their terms and conditions...

[rugbypopsie]

I understand that the terms and conditions cover missed ports and I also realise they are not under any obligation to provide compensation (although they often do on US cruises) but to still charge port charges for missed ports seems very unreasonable...like paying for parking when you are not parked in the space?

 

Sue

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I understand that the terms and conditions cover missed ports and I also realise they are not under any obligation to provide compensation (although they often do on US cruises) but to still charge port charges for missed ports seems very unreasonable...like paying for parking when you are not parked in the space?Sue

 

My understanding is that it all depends on the port Sue.

Many ports have to be booked many years ahead and so to make sure that booking is held for them, the line has to pay a hefty deposit that in many cases is not refundable.

That is why the cruise lines do not like missing a port as it would/could cost them many thousands of dollars.

 

 

[rugbypopsie]

My understanding is that it all depends on the port Sue.

Many ports have to be booked many years ahead and so to make sure that booking is held for them, the line has to pay a hefty deposit that in many cases is not refundable.

That is why the cruise lines do not like missing a port as it would/could cost them many thousands of dollars.

 

 

 

That is clearer (that they have to pay in advance and the port cant rebook the berth) fair enough. My main gripe with some bookings in Australia is the booking conditions...as I have said it IS getting better with some posters reporting that they have been given price drops etc. but its still not common.

But there are still too many penalties for Aus bookings and lack of flexibility.

It will only change when enough complaints are made to influence the powers that be.. and that will be a happy day for Aus customers and agencies alike. I would encourage everyone booking in Australia to ask the relevant questions...

Will I be given a price drop if the cruise line advertises a lower price?

Can I cancel and rebook if the lower price is only for new bookings?

Can I amend my booking i.e. change names or transfer to a new booking what will be the charges if any.

And do your research...there are many other opportunities to snag a good deal, half price deposits, FCC letters, flash sales...and your network of cruisie friends all on the look out for bargains.

 

Merry Christmas to all the CC'rs thanks for all the great information and company you have been in 2012.

Happy Cruising in 2013

 

Sue

[paddingtonbear]

I am not sure which cruiseline you are referring to with your comment on price drops.

 

Years ago, Aussies weren't able to get price drops with Princess Cruises, but I believe that policy changed a year or two ago and we now have the same opportunity for price drops as Americans. However, a lot of Aussies misunderstand the way this works (for Americans as well as us) - The reduced price is only if the cruiseline drops the price for the category booked and only prior to final payment. The customer has to request the price drop, and it does not apply to "new bookings only" or what the Americans call "flash sales". From what I have seen in the US that is the way it works there, and Princess announced a year or two ago, that this would apply also in Aust.

 

Maybe this poster is referring to other cruiselines (Royal Caribbean?).

 

We were on the 47 night Indian Ocean cruise in May 2011 and paid around $4,990 (tips included) each. When we were on board, we had a few separate people grandly inform us that if we had booked through an American TA we would have saved a lot of money. Oh yeah? :D I told them, with the price we paid, if it was any cheaper, Princess would have been paying us to cruise.:D

 

Because we cruise a lot on Princess I read the Princess forum that is made up mainly of Americans with a few Brits and a couple of Aussies thrown in. People here complain about different pricing because we are in Aust, but the Americans complain about different pricing for different states in the US. I think the term they use is "regional pricing".

 

Yes I was referring to Princess. For the cheapest cabins on the ship I have seen prices as low as $57 per night per person offered to Americans and Canadians.

[kate59]

I get some of the American email updates and yes the prices look cheap till you check and they don't include the taxes nor the gratuities, so these need to be added to any overseas deals to see if they really are comparable.

 

Agree with Aus Traveller that on that cruise we got much better deals than some of our overseas visitors when it was worked out all inclusive.

[Kamloops50]

I get some of the American email updates and yes the prices look cheap till you check and they don't include the taxes nor the gratuities, so these need to be added to any overseas deals to see if they really are comparable.

 

Agree with Aus Traveller that on that cruise we got much better deals than some of our overseas visitors when it was worked out all inclusive.

About a year ago Princess started posting prices with port fees and taxes included. They include gratuities in their prices. Most Princess PVP's are pretty telling that gratuities are not included. Some TA's are poor in telling clients what is extra and not included in thefare.

[Painter]

Princess was having problems with staffing the Australian cruises since many were removing the autotip and not giving cash tips. So for Australians, the dropped the autotip and increased the fare.

 

I cruised the Carribean for 10 days on the Queen Mary. Hubby and I paid $2200 each for outside cabin. We did not do automatic tipping by did give $100 between cabin boy and dining staff.

I found out when onboard that the USA residents were paying between $800 and $1100 for the same cabin. So yes... were are paying more!

[keagle]

Looks like America will have some new residence soon.

I bet the prices for food and fuel are not the same in America as they are in Australia either.

If you do not like the cost of a cruise do not book it. It's not rocket science and we do not live in any other country other than Australia. Take the good and the good and move on in your life. The stress can not be worth it.

[Pushka]

I think you're oversimplifying the issue. When booking a cruise it's reasonable to assume in non sale periods that everyone around the world pays the same price. When that doesn't happen simply because our ISP indicates we are in Australia rather than the USA then we are right to feel aggrieved.

 

It's irrelevant the price of food/service in either USA or Australia when the cruise location is the same for everyone but the prices differ just because of citizenship or location of the country when the cruise is booked.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GandM-nq]

Looks like America will have some new residence soon.

I bet the prices for food and fuel are not the same in America as they are in Australia either.

If you do not like the cost of a cruise do not book it. It's not rocket science and we do not live in any other country other than Australia. Take the good and the good and move on in your life. The stress can not be worth it.

 

Obviously you have no idea what this post is about. What the hell has what you say got to do with anything?

 

Example from Painters post above: If a cruise company sells a US citizen a room on a cruise for $1100 and they sell us (the dumb aussies) the room next door to him (same cruise, same floor, same room type) for $2200, you think we should suck it and not complain?

 

Your right, it is not rocket science. And yet it is still beyond your comprehension.

[The_Big_M]

I think some make out like it's a special case though when so many businesses do it in some form or another.

 

It can range from the more commonly accepted pensioner discount, which became senior discounts. Why should age cause someone to pay less for the same number of people (aside from say essentials when they're on a pension)? Then you have things like petrol stations from the same chain selling for vastly different prices just a few km apart when rent isn't the issue. Why do those driving through Rushcutters Bay pay 20c/l more for fuel than those in Redfern? Airlines do it. Supermarkets and veggie shops do it. And many others do it, in various forms.

 

Basically it happens everywhere and, while it's annoying, it's just a factor of demand and companies seeking to maximise their profit.

 

OTOH, some people make massive bargains out of it when the companies sell below cost for the same reason. People don't get het up about that, but that's not sustainable for business either, so it's just swings and roundabouts to me. If you're happy with the price, you pay and if you're not you don't. Getting stressed because you didn't get the absolutely best deal isn't worth it.

[GCHAN]

I think some make out like it's a special case though when so many businesses do it in some form or another.

 

It can range from the more commonly accepted pensioner discount, which became senior discounts. Why should age cause someone to pay less for the same number of people (aside from say essentials when they're on a pension)? Then you have things like petrol stations from the same chain selling for vastly different prices just a few km apart when rent isn't the issue. Why do those driving through Rushcutters Bay pay 20c/l more for fuel than those in Redfern? Airlines do it. Supermarkets and veggie shops do it. And many others do it, in various forms.

 

Basically it happens everywhere and, while it's annoying, it's just a factor of demand and companies seeking to maximise their profit.

 

OTOH, some people make massive bargains out of it when the companies sell below cost for the same reason. People don't get het up about that, but that's not sustainable for business either, so it's just swings and roundabouts to me. If you're happy with the price, you pay and if you're not you don't. Getting stressed because you didn't get the absolutely best deal isn't worth it.

 

I agree with the people who think everybody should get the same deal regardless of where they live. I think that is reasonable.

 

To have different pricing for different zones is ludicrous.

 

Fair enough if you book early to get a set room you could pay more but surely because somebody is from a different country they shouldn't have to pay a different price.

 

I think it is fair enough for people to join together to try to get this inequality or discrimination outlawed.

[keagle]

 

This is from the Celebrity Cruises Australian based website.

 

Note the line 'Fares starting from' $979.00

 

Do you see the little * after the AUD?

 

When you scroll down to the bottom of the page, guess what is there.

 

*Price shown in Australian Dollar. Relevant taxes and fees are additional.

 

 

 

As you work through the booking an inside cabin is still quoted as:

 

"Stateroom Total" $1958.00

 

 

 

And then magically only at the end of the process Taxes and Fees of $191.93 are added to the total. This is what is illegal.

 

Those Taxes and Fess are and were quantifiable when Celebrity quoted the initial $979.00 fare and as such they should have been included in the headline fare.

 

They were not. This is illegal and this is what the ACCC and the Federal Court consider bait advertising.

 

And it was this exact conduct that saw the Federal Court fine Air Asia $200000.

Are there any lawyers here that can tell us if the little * make it legal or not?

[keagle]

Obviously you have no idea what this post is about. What the hell has what you say got to do with anything?

 

Example from Painters post above: If a cruise company sells a US citizen a room on a cruise for $1100 and they sell us (the dumb aussies) the room next door to him (same cruise, same floor, same room type) for $2200, you think we should suck it and not complain?

 

Your right, it is not rocket science. And yet it is still beyond your comprehension.

If you do not like the simplistic view I take on life and a holiday, then fine, I can live with that.

 

What do you do when you go to the car dealer to buy a new car? Jump up and down to get the same car price as other countries or pay what you think is an acceptable cost?

 

The cruise industry in Australia is increasing at a great rate, more than 30% in 2011. So regardless of what may look as unfair to some, it is not making cruise companies change their fare structure as Australians are cruising in greater numbers. Maybe if cruise numbers where increasing less, then fares may come down, but why charge less when people pay more.

 

The ACCC might be a bit more concerned if a person who lives in Sydney was paying half the cost of someone that lives in Brisbane, but that is not the case as they pay the same for the cruise.

 

Again, this is just the way I see things. No one is being forced to like my view on the subject, or anything else that LTUAE throws at me.

[Aussieflyer]

One of the issues, though, is that we as Australian residents, are prevented from buying cruises online from cheaper OS agents. A number of lines expressly forbid agents from selling but others can be bought by us. What we would like is the same opportunity to take our business to the most competitive agent.