Wheres the new ships ?

[jtl513]

Why do people complain about these sounds?

Repetitive sounds keep me awake ... and I don't like wearing ear plugs. :(

[HamOp]

Norwegian Epic, one of the ugliest ships around:eek:

 

Mom always said beauty was only skin deep, but even I wouldn't want a date with that!:D

[3rdGenCunarder]

Mom always said beauty was only skin deep, but even I wouldn't want a date with that!:D

 

The first time I saw a picture of that ship, I thought it was a photoshop joke!

[Typhoon1]

Norwegian Epic, one of the ugliest ships around:eek:]

 

What an abomination.

[MR NW GUY]

What an abomination.

Let's just call the Epic what she really is...

 

A BARGE painted white. - Not a classic ship in any respect.

[Typhoon1]

Let's just call the Epic what she really is...

 

A BARGE painted white. - Not a classic ship in any respect.

 

It can't get any uglier than that.

[CostaSmurfette]

As Copper said earlier in the thread, Fincantieri do offer a decent product...BUT...they are in turmoil at the moment with strikes, lay-off's and Italy is not healthy in the financial department over the Euro. Those issues push up prices and the once set in stone delivery guarantee's cannot be held...look at recent delayed newbuilds for Oceania and the rebuild for Saga, all caught up in the labour squabbles in the yards throughout Italy.

 

I would hazard a guess that one of two yards will grab a HAL order in the next couple of years...Mitsubishi Heavy (who built Sapphire & Diamond Princess's and who are building two ships for AIDA)...or Meyer Werft in Germany who have taken care of AIDA, Celebrity, NCL and others for many years and who build extremely decent ships to a very high quality.

 

Fincantieri need to sort out their situation with the workforce before a cruise line will make serious moves to make future orders. The Super-Costa, the Princess and P&O newbuilds could be the last for those yards if things do not improve...cruise lines do not like, nor can they afford, delays in delivery or substandard work, both have shown themselves in recent months.

 

Mitsubishi Heavy have an excellent record, as do Meyer Werft...other yards, especially in Asia are up and coming and have already started courting cruise lines and corporations for orders....

 

See here, from SeaTrade Insider...

 

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/News/News-Headlines/Experts-spar-on-Asias-clout-as-a-cruise-ship-builder.html

 

So apart from Meyer Werft, I would look to Asia for a newbuild order for HAL...such as Mitsubishi Heavy or one of the other yards out there.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

As Copper said earlier in the thread, Fincantieri do offer a decent product...BUT...they are in turmoil at the moment with strikes, lay-off's and Italy is not healthy in the financial department over the Euro. Those issues push up prices and the once set in stone delivery guarantee's cannot be held...look at recent delayed newbuilds for Oceania and the rebuild for Saga, all caught up in the labour squabbles in the yards throughout Italy.

 

I would hazard a guess that one of two yards will grab a HAL order in the next couple of years...Mitsubishi Heavy (who built Sapphire & Diamond Princess's and who are building two ships for AIDA)...or Meyer Werft in Germany who have taken care of AIDA, Celebrity, NCL and others for many years and who build extremely decent ships to a very high quality.

 

Fincantieri need to sort out their situation with the workforce before a cruise line will make serious moves to make future orders. The Super-Costa, the Princess and P&O newbuilds could be the last for those yards if things do not improve...cruise lines do not like, nor can they afford, delays in delivery or substandard work, both have shown themselves in recent months.

 

Mitsubishi Heavy have an excellent record, as do Meyer Werft...other yards, especially in Asia are up and coming and have already started courting cruise lines and corporations for orders....

 

See here, from SeaTrade Insider...

 

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/News/News-Headlines/Experts-spar-on-Asias-clout-as-a-cruise-ship-builder.html

 

So apart from Meyer Werft, I would look to Asia for a newbuild order for HAL...such as Mitsubishi Heavy or one of the other yards out there.

Great post and I agree with you 100%

 

I remember a post here on the HAL board where in a review (may have even been a Live From) stating they heard from crew that there was going to be a new HAL ships and it was being built in Japan. That was written several months ago and we all kind of wrote it off. I for one do believe there could be some truth to this.

[kazu]

I fully agree.... a 15 ship fleet is plenty large enough.

I wouldn't be so unhappy if when they decide to sell a ship or two or three, if they do not necessarily replace it with a new build. Maybe shrinking the fleet might be a good idea?

 

But, if the fleet gets so much older than the competition, cruisers are bound to drift off to the newer ships. We all like shiny, brand new especially if they have a new design. :)

 

 

In all honesty Sail, I have sailed the newest ship and I far prefer the older, smaller ships. If HAL was to sink some money into them to keep them in top notch condition, they could easily charge a premium IMO.

 

there is definitely a market for the smaller ships and for some these are an ideal size - not too large, not too small.:D

 

If there are no builds, this is the ideal time to put it to the test. Put the ships in top notch condition so we never see another Veendam thread and make people want to go on ships not floating hotels:D

 

It just could work;) JMVHO though

[CostaSmurfette]

Cruise Business highlighted this question of the older ships and their use by dates being forefront (potentially) when it came to orders for newbuilds across the Carnival Corp companies.

 

They are getting rid of their older stock, and sadly that means the smaller and more initmate ships such as Costa's Marina & Allegra....Arison sees it as a natural progression to get rid of the old and small and replace with the big & glitzy (something I, for one, disagree with but our voices do not count in the grand scheme of things).

 

http://www.cruisebusiness.com/index.php/news-section/top-headlines-category/top-headlines-archive-category/2812-arison-reiterates-newbuilding-pace-focus-on-emerging-markets-says-old-ships-could-be-sold

 

Looking at HAL's older ships...Veendam could well be being groomed to go, hence why she has issues that have been summarily overlooked, others that could potentially fall into the "beyond use by date" would be Prinsendam, Maasdam, Volendam, Statendam....all have great repeat followings BUT that does not count for anything in real terms, ie the bank balancing act of upkeep vs viability...popularity rarely, if ever, enters the equation.

 

The corporation need to put bums on sunloungers in sufficient numbers to survive...small ships do not cut the mustard anymore, they do not have the bells and whistles that the target audience/potential future bookers want and desire. Sadly gone are the days where we cruised for the cruise...now its all down to labelled treats, big screens and 24/7 activities....it is a money making issue, not the old fashioned romance of yesteryear that fills the corporation coffers.

 

The corporation could easily replace 4 or 5 older ships with 2 mega ships and still come out at a profit in their income...not forgetting that the older ships are usually more expensive to maintain (Veendam), less fuel efficient and with the emissions changes afoot, they fall foul of that legislation too.

 

I hate seeing the small ships biting the dust...I spent a total of 8 weeks aboard Costa Allegra in 2008 & 2010 and she will always be my favourite little ship...she was like a pair of comfy slippers or that old squishy armchair...nothing fancy, but oh so welcoming and comfortable and friendly...she is about to be scrapped ahead of her time.

 

There are certainly moves afoot to replace the older ships, the winding down of general maintenance is often the first sign...Veendam springs to mind.

 

The old ships have life left in them but they no longer fit the corporate image or the chequebook when it comes to taking care of them.

 

The Mitsubishi Heavy ships being built for AIDA are so ahead of their time in the use of technology, they will be amazing & big vessels...and since they are prototypes, you can probably bank on them sprouting up for the other lines in the family too if proven to be successful...and that would include HAL.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

In all honesty Sail, I have sailed the newest ship and I far prefer the older, smaller ships. If HAL was to sink some money into them to keep them in top notch condition, they could easily charge a premium IMO.

 

there is definitely a market for the smaller ships and for some these are an ideal size - not too large, not too small.:D

 

If there are no builds, this is the ideal time to put it to the test. Put the ships in top notch condition so we never see another Veendam thread and make people want to go on ships not floating hotels:D

 

It just could work;) JMVHO though

Jacqui, I understand where you are coming from and know that there is a percentage of HAL cruisers that feel strongly about this but I do not believe that is the direction that Holland America will take. They need to take a direction that brings in profit as well as brings in new cruisers. HAL really is the only Mass Market Cruise line that has not had a new ships come out in a few years and at the moment does not have any projected. So basically HAL has the oldest ships out there, then with what happened with the Veendam and the media ran with this, that did nothing to help HAL :( I honestly have heard in this past week 9 different people state no I am not interested in HAL their ships are too old and they cannot pass inspections. Once something like that is said I shut my mouth because I know there is no changing their minds.

We all know that is not true but the general public of non frequent cruisers do not know that. The only way HAL has out of this hole is to get rid of their older ships and start to build new. With doing that HAL has to decide the direction and I am pretty sure that direction will be bigger with being able to maximize profits and build a whole new FUTURE Cruise Base.

[kazu]

Costasmurfette,

 

thanks for the post. depressing but thanks. The Prinsendam has a lot of life left in her if she is taken care of. She demands higher prices most times (smaller ship) and has gotten them.

 

if that's what Mickey wants to do thats his business - but he better test his market first and see who is spending the money and where (JMO);)

 

I know Bruzz Muzz said they don't make money (the smaller ships that is) - but here's my problem - if they all don't make money - why are they sailing them? anyone with any business sense knows if you are losing money you cut your losses.

 

so, somehow I think some of them are making money. sorry, not in the cruise business just have a bit of business common sense;)

 

If HAL dumps all of it's smaller ships, then that is going to leave us with few options. don't get me wrong we loved the zuiderdam when we were on and the Oesterdam and I am hoping to try the Westie - so we would still sail HAL most likely - but we would also be looking elsewhere.

 

I hope they take a hard look at their market. Are they catering to people who book last minute to steal a deal or people who are willing to book earlier? If they go to strictly big ships and what that entails then they had better staff them properly or they will lose big time. The "HAL" charm does not come through as clearly on some of them and most people who are just looking to get a cruise don't know/care.

 

Hal needs to differntiate themselves as they used to do. They were known for their smaller ships, the intimate feel, etc.

 

I hope their marketing/survey people have the wherewithall to see who is doing what and which is driving the bottom line.

 

Just my two cents - but I honestly think this move would be a mistake (but I'm prejudiced):)

[CostaSmurfette]

Lisa:

 

I agree with you on German Engineering BUT HAl is owned by Carnival and after that we went to the Italian firm as has every other cruise company that Carnival has purchased.

 

Some of the early Vista's were built in Finland at Kvaerner Masa-Yards...Costa Atlantica, Costa Mediterranea, Carnival Miracle, Carnival Legend & Carnival Spirit all hail from Finland.

 

The design was then taken to Fincantieri and they took it over, building P&O Arcadia and the remainder of the Vista 1 and Vista 2 class ships...that highlight much of the HAL fleet.

[CostaSmurfette]

Costasmurfette,

 

thanks for the post. depressing but thanks. The Prinsendam has a lot of life left in her if she is taken care of. She demands higher prices most times (smaller ship) and has gotten them.

 

if that's what Mickey wants to do thats his business - but he better test his market first and see who is spending the money and where (JMO);)

 

I know Bruzz Muzz said they don't make money (the smaller ships that is) - but here's my problem - if they all don't make money - why are they sailing them? anyone with any business sense knows if you are losing money you cut your losses.

 

so, somehow I think some of them are making money. sorry, not in the cruise business just have a bit of business common sense;)

 

If HAL dumps all of it's smaller ships, then that is going to leave us with few options. don't get me wrong we loved the zuiderdam when we were on and the Oesterdam and I am hoping to try the Westie - so we would still sail HAL most likely - but we would also be looking elsewhere.

 

I hope they take a hard look at their market. Are they catering to people who book last minute to steal a deal or people who are willing to book earlier? If they go to strictly big ships and what that entails then they had better staff them properly or they will lose big time. The "HAL" charm does not come through as clearly on some of them and most people who are just looking to get a cruise don't know/care.

 

Hal needs to differntiate themselves as they used to do. They were known for their smaller ships, the intimate feel, etc.

 

I hope their marketing/survey people have the wherewithall to see who is doing what and which is driving the bottom line.

 

Just my two cents - but I honestly think this move would be a mistake (but I'm prejudiced):)

 

I agree with you...there IS a market for the small ships...but it seems that one mega ship can bring in more and cost less to run than 2-4 older ships...

 

It is down to basic demographics...families want to be entertained 24/7, they want big labelled goods and services....I hate it myself but we small ship lovers are fast becoming the minority.

 

I suspect the merging of the Seabourn and HAL products is a roundabout way of gradually phasing out the smaller ships of HAL and telling those who want the small ship experience to move to Seabourn....Prinsendam could even end up back there.

 

I sincerely hope that the big ship bubble will burst...again I am in a minority in that view, but I wish the cruise lines would return to smaller ships, maybe not the entire fleet but just a couple of them so that we have a choice once again.

 

This December I shall be sailing on Costa Pacifica for a week, she will be my first big ship...previous largest being Norwegian Gem & Jewel. I have mixed emotions about Pacifica...as in will it be enjoyable or purgatory...I intend to make the best of it and it will answer my question as to whether or not the big ships can compete with the smaller ones....I know the answer but I want to see it for myself.

 

Arison wants big, glitzy ships and no amount of noises from those of us who do not want them will make any difference...unless we vote with our feet and go in search of small ship operators....but even then the corporation cannot lose financially since there are plenty others to take our places on the sunloungers.

 

It is a sad progression and one that has many victims....service, maintenance and (in many cases) peace & quiet all suffer.

[HamOp]

Deleted

[HamOp]

Norwegian Epic, one of the ugliest ships around:eek:

 

Looks kind of like it's made out of Lego's, doesn't it?

[LAFFNVEGAS]

 

The Prinsendam has a lot of life left in her if she is taken care of. She demands higher prices most times (smaller ship) and has gotten them.

 

if that's what Mickey wants to do thats his business - but he better test his market first and see who is spending the money and where (JMO);)

 

 

Jacqui, I just wanted to also state that I do not for see HAL getting rid of the Prinsendam any time soon. But then anything is always for sale for a price :rolleyes:

I do see them attempting to get rid of Veendam and Statendam soon the problem is no one wants them Many years ago when Europe was much stronger there would always be a small cruise line out there that might be interested in buying HAL ships because they were well taken care and nicely appointed. Basically a turn key ship. But sadly that is currently not the case either for the ship being Turn Key or smaller cruise lines having the need and money to purchase. I think if economy had not tanked 2 or maybe even all 4 of the S Class ships would have been long gone.

 

What I do see HAL doing in the future will be pushing those who prefer the smaller ships to the Mini Me of HAL which is now Seabourn. I predict that HAL will copy basically what RCI/Celebrity did with Azamara. It will remain separate yet will have many similarities and will eventually include credit with your HAL Mariner Status.

[CostaSmurfette]

Jacqui, I just wanted to also state that I do not for see HAL getting rid of the Prinsendam any time soon. But then anything is always for sale for a price :rolleyes:

I do see them attempting to get rid of Veendam and Statendam soon the problem is no one wants them Many years ago when Europe was much stronger there would always be a small cruise line out there that might be interested in buying HAL ships because they were well taken care and nicely appointed. Basically a turn key ship. But sadly that is currently not the case either for the ship being Turn Key or smaller cruise lines having the need and money to purchase. I think if economy had not tanked 2 or maybe even all 4 of the S Class ships would have been long gone.

 

What I do see HAL doing in the future will be pushing those who prefer the smaller ships to the Mini Me of HAL which is now Seabourn. I predict that HAL will copy basically what RCI/Celebrity did with Azamara. It will remain separate yet will have many similarities and will eventually include credit with your HAL Mariner Status.

 

As with Prinsendam, for example, her fares are slightly higher than standard HAL cos you are buying into the small ship experience with the older ship tag on top...higher running costs, less backsides on loungers = higher fares for the priviledge of sailing on her.

 

The others...Volendam, Veendam, Maasdam, Statendam etc...they have been added onto within an inch of their lives, the cannot be extended economically any further...age, equipment etc are against them.

 

Your "mini-me" in Seabourn is absolutely spot on...when the lines were effectively merged into the same offices, it certainly looked like that was the step they were taking in the long run.

 

As to where the older ships would move to...sideways transfer to Costa Group's Iberocruceros (following Carnival's Holiday & Celebration) could be workable, they are the right size/age and with what was done to Holiday & Celebration in regard to interior refitting, the older HAL ships are ideal candidates.

 

Other than that line, they could go to Olsen, Thomson (who have two ex HAL's already), Saga...the marketplace is small but very active and popular.

 

The game of cruise ship chess is often a complex one but should HAL drop the older, smaller ships they are good enough to go sideways to Iberocruceros or be sold to the highest bidder...which potentially would include scrappers unfortunately since scrap steel is still a valuable commodity, especially for "problem" ships that might require too much work needed to make them economically viable. That said, there is a growing market for secondhand cruise ships in Asia, so all is definitely not lost in that respect.

 

The point above in another post about the "lego brick" approach to building is a simple one to explain....cheap and quick to build, use the same basic footprint and mould it to suit the operator. Conveyor belt shipbuilding has come of age and, except when workforce problems prevail, yards like Fincantieri, AKER France (who built Epic), Meyer-Werft and AKER Finland have got the system off pat and they are very successful at turning out ships in fast succession.

[bishop84]

Azamara

Seabourn

Silversea

Oceania

Regent

Crystal

 

Assuming that you are inferring that small ships can make a profit. I haven't dug to deep but remember the following from business and industry news over the last few months/year:

 

Azamara is losing money for RCCL

 

Seabourn is losing money for Carnival

 

Prestige Cruise Holdings (Oceania/Regent) nothing has been heard of their proposed new build for Regent for several months and they have chartered out Insignia to a German company instead of expanding Oceania with their newly built ships.

 

Crystal have transferred one of their ships to Asuka (?) which is a Japanese marketed line belonging to their parent company, NYK.

[MR NW GUY]

Assuming that you are inferring that small ships can make a profit. I haven't dug to deep but remember the following from business and industry news over the last few months/year:

 

Azamara is losing money for RCCL

 

Seabourn is losing money for Carnival

 

Prestige Cruise Holdings (Oceania/Regent) nothing has been heard of their proposed new build for Regent for several months and they have chartered out Insignia to a German company instead of expanding Oceania with their newly built ships.

 

Crystal have transferred one of their ships to Asuka (?) which is a Japanese marketed line belonging to their parent company, NYK.

I would be interested in knowing your references and sources for the Seabourn comment. The Annual Report for CCL does not break down profits by cruise lines. I wish they did and I would also enjoy seeing the specifics behind the numbers you have referenced.

 

Thanks!

[3rdGenCunarder]

Cruise Business highlighted this question of the older ships and their use by dates being forefront (potentially) when it came to orders for newbuilds across the Carnival Corp companies.

 

They are getting rid of their older stock, and sadly that means the smaller and more initmate ships such as Costa's Marina & Allegra....Arison sees it as a natural progression to get rid of the old and small and replace with the big & glitzy (something I, for one, disagree with but our voices do not count in the grand scheme of things).

 

http://www.cruisebusiness.com/index.php/news-section/top-headlines-category/top-headlines-archive-category/2812-arison-reiterates-newbuilding-pace-focus-on-emerging-markets-says-old-ships-could-be-sold

 

Looking at HAL's older ships...Veendam could well be being groomed to go, hence why she has issues that have been summarily overlooked, others that could potentially fall into the "beyond use by date" would be Prinsendam, Maasdam, Volendam, Statendam....all have great repeat followings BUT that does not count for anything in real terms, ie the bank balancing act of upkeep vs viability...popularity rarely, if ever, enters the equation.

 

The corporation need to put bums on sunloungers in sufficient numbers to survive...small ships do not cut the mustard anymore, they do not have the bells and whistles that the target audience/potential future bookers want and desire. Sadly gone are the days where we cruised for the cruise...now its all down to labelled treats, big screens and 24/7 activities....it is a money making issue, not the old fashioned romance of yesteryear that fills the corporation coffers.

 

The corporation could easily replace 4 or 5 older ships with 2 mega ships and still come out at a profit in their income...not forgetting that the older ships are usually more expensive to maintain (Veendam), less fuel efficient and with the emissions changes afoot, they fall foul of that legislation too.

 

I hate seeing the small ships biting the dust...I spent a total of 8 weeks aboard Costa Allegra in 2008 & 2010 and she will always be my favourite little ship...she was like a pair of comfy slippers or that old squishy armchair...nothing fancy, but oh so welcoming and comfortable and friendly...she is about to be scrapped ahead of her time.

 

There are certainly moves afoot to replace the older ships, the winding down of general maintenance is often the first sign...Veendam springs to mind.

 

The old ships have life left in them but they no longer fit the corporate image or the chequebook when it comes to taking care of them.

 

The Mitsubishi Heavy ships being built for AIDA are so ahead of their time in the use of technology, they will be amazing & big vessels...and since they are prototypes, you can probably bank on them sprouting up for the other lines in the family too if proven to be successful...and that would include HAL.

 

I hate what you've posted here because I fear it is true! The trend is toward either (a) bigger and jazzier ships or (b) smaller and more expensive ships. HAL's ships fit neither profile (except maybe Prinsendam for size and potential to be a small/luxury ship).

 

Forget onboard questionnaires. HAL doesn't care about what the long-time Mariners want. Hey, they're old, how many cruises do they have left to buy? Cruise companies want to grab the newbies, with many cruising (and spending!) years ahead of them. Get those bums on the sunloungers and barstools! So it's a competition to have the newest ships with the most bells and whistles. Offer the most dining options and the least dressing up. Lots of shops onboard! A parade, an ice show, a diving exhibition.

 

Many younger cruisers actually might enjoy the more laid-back and formal cruise that HAL offers. But if they start with a mega-ship with 24/7 activities, wear what you want to dinner, etc, they "learn" that style of cruising. Imagine you're 30 again. (Come on, we HAL oldies can do that) After you've had a climbing wall and a skating rink, and ziplined across a megaship, would you be enticed by HAL's activities?

 

If HAL is allowed to wither on the vine, so to speak, I'd better win the lottery because Cunard and those small-ship lines are expensive.

 

K

[Boytjie]

But a ship is a moving object, and creaks and groans are natural. I love to hear a ship "talk" to me like that. It reminds me I'm riding in a magnificent machine, not staying in a hotel.

 

I agree!

[sail7seas]

Great post and I agree with you 100%

 

I remember a post here on the HAL board where in a review (may have even been a Live From) stating they heard from crew that there was going to be a new HAL ships and it was being built in Japan. That was written several months ago and we all kind of wrote it off. I for one do believe there could be some truth to this.

 

 

I heard that months ago. Not sure if I wrote it here but we definitely were told HAL's next ship was being built in Asia.

 

 

 

 

Jacqui, I just wanted to also state that I do not for see HAL getting rid of the Prinsendam any time soon. But then anything is always for sale for a price :rolleyes:

I do see them attempting to get rid of Veendam and Statendam soon the problem is no one wants them Many years ago when Europe was much stronger there would always be a small cruise line out there that might be interested in buying HAL ships because they were well taken care and nicely appointed. Basically a turn key ship. But sadly that is currently not the case either for the ship being Turn Key or smaller cruise lines having the need and money to purchase. I think if economy had not tanked 2 or maybe even all 4 of the S Class ships would have been long gone.

 

What I do see HAL doing in the future will be pushing those who prefer the smaller ships to the Mini Me of HAL which is now Seabourn. I predict that HAL will copy basically what RCI/Celebrity did with Azamara. It will remain separate yet will have many similarities and will eventually include credit with your HAL Mariner Status.

 

 

I fully agree what you say about Seabourn.

 

 

[CostaSmurfette]

 

Many younger cruisers actually might enjoy the more laid-back and formal cruise that HAL offers. But if they start with a mega-ship with 24/7 activities, wear what you want to dinner, etc, they "learn" that style of cruising. Imagine you're 30 again. (Come on, we HAL oldies can do that) After you've had a climbing wall and a skating rink, and ziplined across a megaship, would you be enticed by HAL's activities?

 

If HAL is allowed to wither on the vine, so to speak, I'd better win the lottery because Cunard and those small-ship lines are expensive.

 

K

 

You hit the nail on the head for the bigger & glitzy ships....

 

Look anywhere on the internet and you will see comments to the effect that HAL ships are full of blue rinse pensioners who go to bed at 10pm and the ship's effectively die from 10.01pm....

 

That may or may not be true...BUT...it is not what the corporation want their HAL ships to be seen to be representing...they want the ships to be rocking all day and all night, have entertainment that keeps people on the edge of their seats, they want lively ships aimed at all ages and most importantly those 20 or 30 something, upwardly mobile pax with money to burn filling the line's coffers...

 

Now...that is not saying that the older generations are not spending money, cos they most definitely are...but the references to the ships closing down at 10.01pm have caused something of a worry for those wanting to try HAL and having the perceived notion that the ships are floating old peoples homes...

 

The corporation want to rid HAL of that perception, so big brassy ships with big screens, big capacities, big named outlets etc are on the cards to drag the ships into line with the others in the family...

 

Having a line with its own individuality isn't what the bosses want...they want earning power and the quieter, reflective decor and pax behaviour is not fitting the bill and its putting newbies off....so it has got to go.

 

Get rid of the old, stuffy, laid back ships...in with the jazzy Farcus Fantasies with all their glitz and revenue grabbing ability.

 

The corporation are doing it with Costa Crociere...out with the old ships, built swanky new ones that have as much connection to Italy aesthetically or traditionally wise as a hamburger at a royal garden party...the only thing Italian nowadays is the flag flying off the ship stern. The same could be said for the HAL ships with their Dutch flag off the stern...

 

Heritage, tradition and all that goes with it means nothing to the big pen pushers in suits...they want revenue and the smaller ships just do not deliver anymore....

[lidojohnny]

Hey let's take away the phrase Cruise ship and in the future call it Circus

ship. Are you going on a cruise? No, i'm going on a Circus run. Yes, you will have newbies, but you will also have the new 50's folks who will become the Blue rinse crowd and will be fed up with the newbie types and would want relief from that element. I think that there will always be

a defined market for voyagers; not cruisers, they are people who know and want the feel, the style, the panache and the finesse disassociated with the Duh, Circus

mentality. Can you believe that there are actually people who do not

get off ships while in port, don't care who the Captain is, how high the

zip line is and if the waiters dance on the tables. We have been on world

cruises and Grand Voyages and found no need for Ice rinks, Climbing Walls and CD's named Spanky or Buffy!:eek: