Wheres the new ships ?

[SeaBands]

Just more interesting itineraries and different menus. Seems that all their cruises are competely filled and isn't that better than sailing with empty cabins and losing money?

[RedmondCruiser]

Really,,, Really! Sorry, but I think your observation is so off base. Have you read any of the reviews of the Epic? I read a lot of complaints about vibration and noise from many different people. I also read an interesting thread about the Epic not having sufficent power to get off a windy dock when Carnival and RCI left without issue.

 

 

I guess in fairness... I am not an engineer, but it seems to me that the largest and most succesful cruise line (CCL) in the world would have ships equal or better than NCL.

 

Lisa, please don't take this the wrong way. I usually agreee with most of your postings, but I have respectfuly disagree with you on this one.

 

I'm not an engineer either but the Epic suffers from a design that puts too much above the water line and therefore acts like a sail. I the ships superstructure acts too much like a sail then the engines can't compensate. Sadly these ships don't have graceful lines and, in my opinion, are ugly.

The lines will go to the lowest bidder for ship construction, thats business.

[sail7seas]

I'm not an engineer either but the Epic suffers from a design that puts too much above the water line and therefore acts like a sail. I the ships superstructure acts too much like a sail then the engines can't compensate. Sadly these ships don't have graceful lines and, in my opinion, are ugly.

 

The lines will go to the lowest bidder for ship construction, thats business.

 

Given Carnival Corp's dominance in the industry, I imagine they have very strong bargaining position. When they are purchasing ships for so many lines, it's hard to think they don't get 'best price' wherever they choose to go.

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Really,,, Really! Sorry, but I think your observation is so off base. Have you read any of the reviews of the Epic? I read a lot of complaints about vibration and noise from many different people. I also read an interesting thread about the Epic not having sufficent power to get off a windy dock when Carnival and RCI left without issue.

 

 

I guess in fairness... I am not an engineer, but it seems to me that the largest and most succesful cruise line (CCL) in the world would have ships equal or better than NCL.

 

Lisa, please don't take this the wrong way. I usually agreee with most of your postings, but I have respectfuly disagree with you on this one.

OK first I never mentioned Epic, I stated NCL Pearl

Epic was a big mistake and NCL knows that now. That ship was built by Chantiers de l'Atlantique in France. My comparison of ships was the Pearl which was built in Germany by Meyer Werft which has also built ALL of the Celebrity Solstice ships and NCL has gone back to them to build their new Breakaway and Getaway ships. Maybe the commercials about German engineering is true ;)

If anyone has sailed on any of the Solstice Class ships or the Gem Class of NCL, think about it. How was the ride? Did you hear the normal HAL noises you hear especially at night?:D I have grown accustom to the sounds of HAL and find it almost shocking when I do cruise on another ship that is so darn quiet.

CCL has made all their money by being shrewd, nothing wrong with that. Many big companies make big money by cutting corners. Most of the time they get away with it while other times it hurts.

What I was getting at in my statement was that these other ships definitely feel different.

[sail7seas]

I've read no mention of the Asian boat yards. Some fine shipbuilding goes on there.

 

[Copper10-8]

Norwegian Epic, one of the ugliest ships around:eek:

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Norwegian Epic, one of the ugliest ships around:eek:

 

Copper, I have to agree with you on that one :D She looks so Top Heavy. I do think that the new NCL ships coming out will look much better.

I am also not a fan of the exterior Paint Jobs either but when cruising you really do not see what is on the outside as much as you might think ;)

[Boytjie]

Norwegian Epic, one of the ugliest ships around:eek:

 

Please stop posting pictures of that ugly thing! :mad: :eek:

[sail7seas]

That ship is awful looking. There is no feature about it that is pleasing to the eye. IMO

I will never understand those horrid paint jobs.

[Sbilko]

Vista Hull:

This hull design was one of the best in recent times. The ability of Vista Hulls to move through the water, with speed and stability, is second to none. When combined with a diesel-electric propulsion system, with azipods, these ships are much more economical to operate then conventional diesel driven motor ships. They also run quieter. Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam are Vista Hulls, but are called Signature Class. Now I know there were problems with the first azipods, but they are now considered the way to go, especially for fuel efficiency. This is why this hull design and propulsion systems were used by so many cruise lines, no matter what the class name is.

 

Owners Specifications:

This is the big one. It is impossible to buy a brand new Cadillac for the same price as a brand new VW Beatle. The owner sets the standard of the construction above the minimum requirements. These increased standards cost money, and so the balancing act begins between the builder and the owner to arrive at a satisfactory price and a satisfactory standard of construction and Quality. Like everything in life, you only get what you pay for.

[sail7seas]

The hope is that you DO get what you paid for.

 

How many times does someone pay but not receive what they bought?

[sppunk]

Eurodam is not a Vista Class ship. Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam are Signature Class ships and I prefer them to the three vista ships I have been on. (I have yet to sail the Noordam--but I will) I could see them adding a deck or two on a new build. Perhaps a lower Veranda and a lower Rotterdam deck and make it a bit taller than the Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam. I would also think they might have to make the main DR on three decks rather than two decks. Maybe HAL should contact me for help in planning the new ship!

Himself

Maybe I didn't word that well, but I know Eurodam and NA aren't Vistas. I was just saying I like both designs. :)

[hypercafe]

I think CCL is in the position GM was, they have too many brands that overlap. At this point HAL has no advantage over anybody, they have an old fleet that really hasn't been invested in and poorly maintained. I think they are just going to run HAL into the ground for as long as they can with no new ships.

[eroller]

There was a Carnival Corp. earnings call just today. During it Howard Frank, vice chairman and COO stated that most growth within the corporation will go to the brands with the highest ROI's, as well as emerging markets such as Asia.

 

The best performing European brand for Carnival is AIDA. They are building ships at a fast past. P&O is doing well too which is why they are getting a Royal Princess class newbuild.

 

In North America, which many experts say has reached a saturation point, the new building pace is much slower. I'm guessing Carnival Cruise Lines and Princess Cruises have the best ROI in the Carnival Corp. portfolio of brands (for North America). Both have new builds on order that will largely serve the North American market.

 

I can only surmise that HAL is not a brand with one of the higher ROI's, which is why there are currently no new builds on order. Even if one were to be ordered this year, it would be at least a few years before building would be completed. If and when HAL orders a new ship, it will be interesting to see if it's a from scratch design, or the more likely scenario of a modified Royal Princess design. Carnival Corp. generally likes to use one platform across several brands.

 

Ernie

[sail7seas]

There was a Carnival Corp. earnings call just today. During it Howard Frank, vice chairman and COO stated that most growth within the corporation will go to the brands with the highest ROI's, as well as emerging markets such as Asia.

 

The best performing European brand for Carnival is AIDA. They are building ships at a fast past. P&O is doing well too which is why they are getting a Royal Princess class newbuild.

 

In North America, which many experts say has reached a saturation point, the new building pace is much slower. I'm guessing Carnival Cruise Lines and Princess Cruises have the best ROI in the Carnival Corp. portfolio of brands (for North America). Both have new builds on order that will largely serve the North American market.

 

I can only surmise that HAL is not a brand with one of the higher ROI's, which is why there are currently no new builds on order. Even if one were to be ordered this year, it would be at least a few years before building would be completed. If and when HAL orders a new ship, it will be interesting to see if it's a from scratch design, or the more likely scenario of a modified Royal Princess design. Carnival Corp. generally likes to use one platform across several brands.

 

Ernie

 

Thanks, Ernie.

 

That doesn't sound so encouraging for us HAL lovers.

 

[eroller]

Thanks, Ernie.

 

That doesn't sound so encouraging for us HAL lovers.

 

 

 

You're welcome!

 

Sometimes it's not a bad thing for a line not to have newbuilds on order. It provides the line with the opportunity to focus solely on the product at hand, hopefully enhancing it for both the customer and shareholders. It's a delicate balance that sometimes gets skewed when the focus is always on the next newbuild.

 

I'm hoping HAL will take this opportunity to truly improve the brand.

 

Ernie

[sail7seas]

I fully agree.... a 15 ship fleet is plenty large enough.

I wouldn't be so unhappy if when they decide to sell a ship or two or three, if they do not necessarily replace it with a new build. Maybe shrinking the fleet might be a good idea?

 

But, if the fleet gets so much older than the competition, cruisers are bound to drift off to the newer ships. We all like shiny, brand new especially if they have a new design. :)

 

[eroller]

 

But, if the fleet gets so much older than the competition, cruisers are bound to drift off to the newer ships. We all like shiny, brand new especially if they have a new design. :)

 

 

 

 

Good point, but the good news is that all North American lines have drastically slowed down the new build pace. Celebrity will soon take delivery of its last new build on order, and Royal Caribbean hasn't had a new build since ALLURE and won't have another for a good two years. It will be longer than that for Celebrity to have another new build as nothing is on order. Even Carnival Cruise Lines has nothing on order, and that is very rare for them. I do expect that to change shortly and expect a new build announcement soon. Princess was probably past due for a new build as their last new ship was RUBY PRINCESS and they have done exactly what I hope HAL will do ... focus on the brand and ships at hand. During their new build dry spell, they really updated some of their older ships with new features and innovation. Royal Caribbean and Celebrity have done the same. HAL has also to a certain extent, but honestly their revitalization plan was not well thought through. Case in point ... The Retreat. Huge failure. Hopefully they reevaluate and figure out exactly what is important to the their core customers, while determining what will attract future customers as well. That is the only way we will see HAL continue to grow.

 

Ernie

[Himself]

Up until I started to try other cruise lines I personally did not think there would be a difference in the physical ship themselves but think of it in this way a Yugo to a Mercedes in workmanship and attention to detail. ( I know Yugo's don't exist any more but I did not want to offend any of the other lower priced car manufacturers :D )

After taking a hard look at other ships and comparing to ships built at Fincantieri this is just my opinion but have found others agree with me that they are not considered to be on the high end. Many can agree that have been on the Inaugural sailings.

I love the Officer and Crew of HAL, I love the HAL product and decor, the physical ships.... Not so much. We started to really notice the difference especially in the ride on ships like the NCL Pearl the ship is close to the same size but there is a huge difference. Basically HAL has the noisest ships with the most rattling and creeking than any other ships out there. It all comes down to the builder. But again this is just my opinion, it has not stopped me from sailing HAL but in the long run it would certainly save HAL money if a new ship was built some where else.

 

Lisa:

 

I agree with you on German Engineering BUT HAl is owned by Carnival and after that we went to the Italian firm as has every other cruise company that Carnival has purchased.

[Pettifogger]

To me it seems counterintuitive that no one can make a profit with ships carrying less than 2,000 passengers; my experience in a different industry was that, regardless of the policy choice between big or small, the profits went to those who best executed either policy.

 

But I have no relevant experience in the cruise industry, so if we grant, for the sake of argument, the assertions of those who do have experience and believe that, we're left with the problem of a cruise public of whom many prefer smaller ships. Of those many would reluctantly cruise on larger ships if that was all that was available. Many others would not.

 

Since no one has any very useful numbers, if we arbitrarily assume that it would be one-half each time, we have one-quarter of the cruise population who would be left unbooked. Maybe instead it's only one-fifth or even less, but it's thousands and thousands of people. Conceivably, the cruise industry could just abandon that many of its prospective customers, but I'd expect that instead they'd devote their efforts to finding a new way, if necessary, to profitably serve that segment.

 

In the meantime, everything considered, the tentative answer to the question of what size new ships to build would seem to be not to build any new ships of any size. There doesn't seem to be an unserved population out there clamoring for more cabins and probably won't be for longer than it takes to build a ship.Those passengers who like their ships so new that their cabin hasn't been previously occupied would be disappointed, but better they than the shareholders.

 

While we wait, careful handling of the existing ships, passengers and crew would help preserve the assets needed for decisive action when it eventually becomes advisable.

[CoronaCRZR]

There was a Carnival Corp. earnings call just today. During it Howard Frank, vice chairman and COO stated that most growth within the corporation will go to the brands with the highest ROI's, as well as emerging markets such as Asia.

 

The best performing European brand for Carnival is AIDA. They are building ships at a fast past. P&O is doing well too which is why they are getting a Royal Princess class newbuild.

 

In North America, which many experts say has reached a saturation point, the new building pace is much slower. I'm guessing Carnival Cruise Lines and Princess Cruises have the best ROI in the Carnival Corp. portfolio of brands (for North America). Both have new builds on order that will largely serve the North American market.

 

I can only surmise that HAL is not a brand with one of the higher ROI's, which is why there are currently no new builds on order. Even if one were to be ordered this year, it would be at least a few years before building would be completed. If and when HAL orders a new ship, it will be interesting to see if it's a from scratch design, or the more likely scenario of a modified Royal Princess design. Carnival Corp. generally likes to use one platform across several brands.

 

Ernie

 

 

I certainly hope that lower ROI does not automaticaly mean less maintenance and upkeep of the existing fleet.

Based on what I have been reading on the various posts lately it seems to me that there appears to be no money to fix much on the HAL ships anymore.

If you read the Veendam CDC report quite a number of refrigirators were inop etc.

I surely hope that CCL will allow HAL to continue to improve the cruise experience, but by the looks of it, it will take some money which CCL may not be willing to part with.

[sail7seas]

To me it seems counterintuitive that no one can make a profit with ships carrying less than 2,000 passengers; my experience in a different industry was that, regardless of the policy choice between big or small, the profits went to those who best executed either policy.

 

But I have no relevant experience in the cruise industry, so if we grant, for the sake of argument, the assertions of those who do have experience and believe that, we're left with the problem of a cruise public of whom many prefer smaller ships. Of those many would reluctantly cruise on larger ships if that was all that was available. Many others would not.

 

Since no one has any very useful numbers, if we arbitrarily assume that it would be one-half each time, we have one-quarter of the cruise population who would be left unbooked. Maybe instead it's only one-fifth or even less, but it's thousands and thousands of people. Conceivably, the cruise industry could just abandon that many of its prospective customers, but I'd expect that instead they'd devote their efforts to finding a new way, if necessary, to profitably serve that segment.

 

In the meantime, everything considered, the tentative answer to the question of what size new ships to build would seem to be not to build any new ships of any size. There doesn't seem to be an unserved population out there clamoring for more cabins and probably won't be for longer than it takes to build a ship.Those passengers who like their ships so new that their cabin hasn't been previously occupied would be disappointed, but better they than the shareholders.

 

While we wait, careful handling of the existing ships, passengers and crew would help preserve the assets needed for decisive action when it eventually becomes advisable.

 

 

Azamara

Seabourn

Silversea

Oceania

Regent

Crystal

 

[Essiesmom]

OK first I never mentioned Epic, I stated NCL Pearl

Epic was a big mistake and NCL knows that now. That ship was built by Chantiers de l'Atlantique in France. My comparison of ships was the Pearl which was built in Germany by Meyer Werft which has also built ALL of the Celebrity Solstice ships and NCL has gone back to them to build their new Breakaway and Getaway ships. Maybe the commercials about German engineering is true ;)

If anyone has sailed on any of the Solstice Class ships or the Gem Class of NCL, think about it. How was the ride? Did you hear the normal HAL noises you hear especially at night?:D I have grown accustom to the sounds of HAL and find it almost shocking when I do cruise on another ship that is so darn quiet.

CCL has made all their money by being shrewd, nothing wrong with that. Many big companies make big money by cutting corners. Most of the time they get away with it while other times it hurts.

What I was getting at in my statement was that these other ships definitely feel different.

 

The noisiest cabin we have ever had was 9310, concierge class on Solstice. that cabin squeaked, groaned, and rattled even when the sea was calm. Second noisiest was Oosterdam 1115 in rough seas. EM

[3rdGenCunarder]

The noisiest cabin we have ever had was 9310, concierge class on Solstice. that cabin squeaked, groaned, and rattled even when the sea was calm. Second noisiest was Oosterdam 1115 in rough seas. EM

 

Why do people complain about these sounds? Joggers on the deck above, music from a showroom below, that I understand completely. Rattles can be annoying if they're loud. But a ship is a moving object, and creaks and groans are natural. I love to hear a ship "talk" to me like that. It reminds me I'm riding in a magnificent machine, not staying in a hotel. (Not picking on you specifically Essiesmom, just commenting in general about such complaints)

[3rdGenCunarder]

Jumbodam:eek:

 

Megadam:confused:

 

Monsterdam:(

 

Giganticdam:mad:

 

And if they build these, I'll be sailing on the Idontgiveadam.