Carol Marlow leaving

[kevinyork]

I wonder how long it will take P&O to recover. All it has done is go downhill continually. The price schemes, cancelling cruises like the failed Azura world cruise, poor marketing, the miserable new loyalty scheme. The whole line seems to be dumbed down more and more. Ships missing refits and sailing with maintenance issues. I think the recent world cruise Aurora has it had mechanical problems and had to be repaired during the voyage. Is the company avoiding necesarry maintenance to save a few $$$ here and there and then making repairs as things break.

 

It used to be my favourite line. Now I have no cruises booked with them for the forseeable future. The sounds of all this make it look like the managing directors were pushed out rather than sacked.

 

I do agree. However the changes that people have been unhappy about have all occurred due to bean counting. With the financial issues faced by Carnival there is nothing to suggest they wont wish to make more cuts.

Edited June 6, 2013 by kevinyork

[Eboracum_d]

There are similar problems on Cunard.

 

A relative was on QE a fortnight ago staying in a Suite. It took her 4 trips to the desk to get a card that worked in the lock and then when she tried to leave the ship she was told the card was invalid as it was not showing her photograph. It was actually her first time on Cunard and there is unlikely to be another.

[NSWP]

So, at the end of the day did Carol resign or was she dismissed? Big difference.

[Cosmic Rays]

I get the impression both she and Shanks were pushed and may well have gone already - on 'gardening leave'. Their nests will, I am sure, have been feathered and new jobs elsewhere already in the pipeline.............

[David&Heather]

P&O Were getting it right by appealing to separate markets by creating the Ocean Village brand but then upset most of the newly attracted customers by closing down the brand in what appeared to be managerial infighting at Southampton as opposed to any strategic planning of ship utilisation.

I was one of those customers and now cruise with Princess which is part of the Carnival group so I an probably not counted as a lost customer but many others transferred their loyalties to RCL, NCL or just stopped cruising.

 

P&O have been concentrating on a dying market of traditional cruises based from Southampton, a failed strategy as this is a diminishing market. Compounded by a policy of trying to be all things to all people and upsetting both loyal and new customers as a result, reducing port time to save costs, introducing a pricing policy that does not make sense, alienating travel agents who then actively discourage your brand as other brands are more financially viable for them and add to that P&O have upset their loyal and hard working workforce with several well publicised disputes on board their ships.

 

P&O were working towards their ideal cruise which would be 14 nights ex Southampton with NO ports of call, 10 of those nights would probably be spent bobbing about in the Bay of Biscay - trouble is the customer does not want that.

What I cannot understand is how Ms Marlowe retained her position for so long.

 

From what I can see P&O have not got any better since closing down the OV brand and have done nothing to attract my custom, it will be interesting to see what happens now.

Edited June 7, 2013 by David&Heather
typo

[daiB]

Sorry but I cannot agree with this statement below.

 

"P&O have been concentrating on a dying market of traditional cruises based from Southampton, a failed strategy as this is a diminishing market. Compounded by a policy of trying to be all things to all people and upsetting both loyal and new customers as a result, reducing port time to save costs, introducing a pricing policy that does not make sense, alienating travel agents who then actively discourage your brand as other brands are more financially viable for them and add to that P&O have upset their loyal and hard working workforce with several well publicised disputes on board their ships."

 

 

You have no evidence at all of this. All of the new cruisers I have met in the past 5 years have come from this very age group. Indeed only yesterday it was reported in The Telegraph that the UK cruise business was booming and this was because the main cruisers had not been effected so much by the downturn. The Quote is "many older consumers - traditionally the target market for cruise operators - have also weathered the credit crunch better than younger families" that seems to blow your argument out of the water. It look as if P&O are in fact concentrating on the correct market, the one with money.

 

If I may add an interesting comment from someone who appears not to have sailed with P&O.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

 

Dai

[daiB]

The link to the Telegraph article.on cruising is here.

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/10104450/Cruise-industry-booming-as-UK-sailing-forecast-to-hit-all-time-high.html

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[jessybell]

We have done over 30 cruises since 1978 with P&O. We came off Arcadia this year having sailed to Brisbane happy but not ecstatic about our holiday...we noticed too many cutbacks and that many of the crew seemed unhappy.

 

We then did three weeks on Fred Olsens Balmoral....never having done a Fred Olsen cruise before.....and how refreshing it was...not glitzy, not pretentious. Very happy and friendly crew and passengers, great food and lots of little nice touches like free champagne at breakfast on the days of a formal night. OK the cabins were basic, but the bathroom was spacious and the ship is need of a makeover. But.......we will go on Balmoral again and probably give P&O a miss until they start listening to what customers want!

[Dthompso]

My understanding is that P&O were told by Carnival to move the Ocean Villages ships to P&O Australia to expand the market there.

 

DT

[kevinyork]

The link to the Telegraph article.on cruising is here.

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/10104450/Cruise-industry-booming-as-UK-sailing-forecast-to-hit-all-time-high.html

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

Dai, you are being somewhat selective there given the article concentrates on cruises starting in Britain or Round Britain cruises. Its not just talking about British passengers. Yes there is one line about the older generation not being hit by the recession.

 

Whilst you may meet new cruisers in your age group, we meet many new cruisers in our age group. If P&O continue to market themselves towards an ageing market then this will only diminish its customer base. (I cannot believe ALL the new cruisers you have met in 5 years are in an older age bracket unless you choose not to mingle with younger cruisers).

 

There was a time people only turned to cruises once retired. Its different now and people of all ages are open to the idea of cruising and P&O are a mass market cruise line and need to appeal to the mass market, not just one sector of it. Currently they dont seem to know who they want to appeal to.

 

However, clearly you are their target market and you are happy with them which is fine.

Edited June 7, 2013 by kevinyork

[daiB]

Dai, you are being somewhat selective there given the article concentrates on cruises starting in Britain or Round Britain cruises. Its not just talking about British passengers. Yes there is one line about the older generation not being hit by the recession.

 

Whilst you may meet new cruisers in your age group, we meet many new cruisers in our age group. If P&O continue to market themselves towards an ageing market then this will only diminish its customer base.

 

There was a time people only turned to cruises once retired. Its different now and people of all ages are open to the idea of cruising and P&O are a mass market cruise line and need to appeal to the mass market, not just one sector of it. Currently they dont seem to know who they want to appeal to.

 

 

Sorry Kevin that is not what it says It talks about South America Nd the Caribbean and does not discuss any cruise line in particular.

 

The over 60 age group is increasing far quicker than any other. The baby boomers are in the middle of getting there. It is this age gro who have the disposable income to be able to afford cruises. In fact they are the ones who have the time as well. Remember a cruise line cannot rely on summer holiday business. The increase in cruising is dependent on this group of people.

 

BTW I was not being selective at all. The link is only a couple of days old and relates to discussions which have happened on here. If no one is producing articles saying the opposite that is not my fault.

 

There are a number of people who dislike P&O for a range of reasons mainly personal and will say things which indicate that they are not doing well and that they will have to change. It is usually the thing they do not like that they want to change. If you read these boards and others you will see they cover a wide range. Dress code, Ocean Village and its loss, fly cruising. Cruising too expensive, cruising to cheap. Someone else getting a better deal than them. Tipping. The entertainment too many ports, too few ports. To long in ports, to short in ports. The cruises being same old, same old. The other lines being better. Small ships, large ships.

 

Now take you pick from that lot and come up with a cruise line which would suit everyone.

 

I like many others like what P&O provide so I cruise with them, it suits me. It seems to suit many others as well.

 

 

 

Hey ho

 

Gan Canny

 

 

 

Dai

 

 

:cool::cool:

[tillybilly321]

 

The over 60 age group is increasing far quicker than any other. The baby boomers are in the middle of getting there. It is this age gro who have the disposable income to be able to afford cruises. In fact they are the ones who have the time as well. Remember a cruise line cannot rely on summer holiday business. The increase in cruising is dependent on this group of people.

 

 

Dai, are these the same baby boomers who, it is reported in newspapers most weeks, are still laden down with huge mortgages or no savings as they have given them to their children for deposits on houses, or endowments which won't pay off their mortgage, or annuity's and pensions which have halved in value, or trying to pay their childrens Uni fees, or if all else fails, they are looking after grandchildren all week so the parents can work.

 

Must be true, as I read it in the newspaper :)

 

I don't think that any cruise line should be pinning their hopes on a generation that has so many problems to keep them afloat

[daiB]

 

The over 60 age group is increasing far quicker than any other. The baby boomers are in the middle of getting there. It is this age gro who have the disposable income to be able to afford cruises. In fact they are the ones who have the time as well. Remember a cruise line cannot rely on summer holiday business. The increase in cruising is dependent on this group of people.

 

 

Dai, are these the same baby boomers who, it is reported in newspapers most weeks, are still laden down with huge mortgages or no savings as they have given them to their children for deposits on houses, or endowments which won't pay off their mortgage, or annuity's and pensions which have halved in value, or trying to pay their childrens Uni fees, or if all else fails, they are looking after grandchildren all week so the parents can work.

 

Must be true, as I read it in the newspaper :)

 

I don't think that any cruise line should be pinning their hopes on a generation that has so many problems to keep them afloat

 

It is not this group which are in trouble, according to the Telegraph in the article above our generation have survived the downturn quite well. the problem lies with those below us, 45 to 60 they are the ones with big mortgages etc.

 

Remember the cruise lines have to fill their ships all the year round. This is why the ships are full of the 60+ brigade.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[davecttr]

Another telegraph article

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/10107146/Two-chiefs-disembark-as-Carnival-targets-younger-cruisers.html

[t60]

I don´t think it helped either P&O or Princess when they changed their loyalty programmes. so that P&O & Princess ¨points¨ weren´t interchangeable between the cruise lines. I know we used to cruise on both lines, but since then have been staying with Princess (up till now anyway)

 

Sandy In Spain

Edited June 8, 2013 by t60

[Eboracum_d]

The picture of a PandO ferry shows a distinct lack of knowledge on the part of the Telegraph. That is operated by an entirely different company.

 

It would make more sense if loyalty schemes ran across the Carnival group -- not that I would expect many PandO or Cunard regulars finding their way to Carnival ships. It might encourage some to try Seabourn which is one of the likely beneficiaries if Dingle wants to continue the policy of taking the two brands further downmarket.

 

I would have thought there was a market for a UK based ship whose offer lay between those of Fred Olsen at the lower end and Hibernian at the other. I am sure there is also scope for Carnival to compete with Royal Caribbean to attract a younger, mass market which is attracted to a mobile theme park. Holland America ships seem to have been increasing embarkations from UK and might be Carnivals way of meeting my perceived niche.

[marylizcat]

Another telegraph article

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/10107146/Two-chiefs-disembark-as-Carnival-targets-younger-cruisers.html

 

It is excellent news if this is indeed part of a plan to attract younger cruisers. Recently, they have been moving in the opposite direction to this.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

I think it is obvious for all to see. David Dingle has been told to drag P&O and Cunard (kicking and screaming if necessary) into the 21st century. Both brands have a reputation of attracting pensioners and not appealing to the younger generation. It appears both Marlow and Shanks lack the qualities needed to market their respective brands aggressively to a wider customer base. Unless things change, in 20yrs time P&O clientelle will be under 6 ft and everyone else will be on RCI, Celebrity and Princess. I predicted this over 12 months ago, but was branded a troll by the P&O cheerleader squad.

[A Paladin]

David Dingle -v- Carol Marlow. Carol would get my shareholder vote. From personal experience, David Dingle's office better get their act together!

[daiB]

I think it is obvious for all to see. David Dingle has been told to drag P&O and Cunard (kicking and screaming if necessary) into the 21st century. Both brands have a reputation of attracting pensioners and not appealing to the younger generation. It appears both Marlow and Shanks lack the qualities needed to market their respective brands aggressively to a wider customer base. Unless things change, in 20yrs time P&O clientelle will be under 6 ft and everyone else will be on RCI, Celebrity and Princess. I predicted this over 12 months ago, but was branded a troll by the P&O cheerleader squad.

 

I do hope you do not mean me as someone else called you that, I simply thought he was correct.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[Sutho]

In my opinion P&O have to change quickly, they have made some changes in the past that only made them worst. Ten years ago the cruise line was not as big as it was now and people had less choice. Now with larger companies like Royal Caribbean and Celebrity making bigger mark P&O are losing passengers to them. I have recently tried Celebrity and while there are a lot of things Celebrity does better, P&O still does have their advantages.

 

P&O need to

• Define their market - They cant be all things to everyone.
  
• Become more inclusive - none of this "pay to use" crap that only panders to the likes of "precious darlings" that like to be wrapped in cotton wool. Things like "The Retreat" have to go, paying to use pools has to go. P&O are mass market. They are not premium. All this class distinction garbage will drive the younger market away. You don't see Royal Caribbean or Celebrity charging more for stupid areas on their ships like "The Retreat"
  
• Scrap the formality. Just have smart casual and formal. Join the 21st Century. Its time to force out the passengers who went to school on Noah's Ark and were born just about the time the dinosaurs became extinct.
  
• Stop p---ing people off by reducing the fares. Create a fare structure that will sell cruises and make the cruises interesting to go on. I am no longer booking ANY P&O cruise in advance anymore thanks to their last minute price drops months out from a cruise.
  
• Stop the cut-backs. This is only driving the loyal passengers away who find cruising is not what it once was. Trust me ten years ago P&O was much better than what it is now and I was only 20 when I did my first cruise with them.
  
• Bring back decent on board credit. That has reduced significantly since Carnival took over.
  
• Improve the World Cruise program. They are repeating too much of it now and not being very creative with different itineraries each year.
  
• With ships like Ventura and Azura they need to smash out a few hundred cabins and give the space back to the passengers. Those ships were only designed to cater to 2,600 and were drawn up in the early 90's. You cant turn a antiquated ship into a 21st century ship by slapping a few extra decks on top. Look at Celebrity and Royal Caribbean. They have much larger ships with less passengers and more passenger space. I know which ships I would rather be on. Trust me I will never book a cruise on Ventura or Azura ever again.
  

[NSWP]

Some good points there Sutho, I agree with most.

 

P&O UK need not be dragged down to the standard of P&O Australia though. But relaxing of formality, i.e. dress will attract the younger cruisers. I like the Princess dress code, about 1 formal night every 7 days and smart casual other nights, perhaps P&O should adopt this.

 

Just my two bobs worth.

[annieuk]

I agree that it's only sensible that P&O try to attract younger cruisers. However, I would imagine that the World Cruises, for example have many older passengers on them as do some of the cruises to places like the Fjords. The company cannot afford to alienate all the older cruisers by, for example getting rid of formal evenings and making it Smart and Casual only. We would not continue to cruise with P&O were they to do this. It will be very difficult to attract a new set of cruisers and still keep their loyal older cruisers. I don't think they would want to make the older cruisers - the ones who have the money to cruise more - to look to another cruise line.

 

Some of the ideas I have read on this thread seem to be saying, forget about the older cruisers, let's get rid of the formal dress and appeal to the youngsters. I would hope there is room for both older and younger people who like cruising. On our last cruise I was chatting with a young couple - early 30s I would think, and they loved the opportunity to dress up, the wife said it was the only chance to do this that she had and she loved it. The husband even said he thought he looked quite good in a James Bond sort of way!

 

I hope P&O will find a way ahead that doesn't alienate any particular age range.

[Sutho]

I have done plenty of World Cruises and the formality drives a lot of the passengers mad. They hate it under certain circumstances. The best example I can give you is the tropics. The Caribbean, The Equator, Asia, Top end Australia. All of these are in the tropics and the heat is intolerable. Many passengers resent getting dressed up in these climates particularly when the ships air conditioning is turned up to please the women in skimpy dresses. The men are forced to swelter in the heat. It is no use going on deck in the tropics when you are dressed up in formal gear.

 

The cross between casual and formal is the biggest problem for P&O. It is ridiculous and annoying and only complicates packing.

 

World Cruises will always be popular. They will not drive their passengers away. If people want to defect to Fred Olsen or Saga then let them, P&O needs to set their standards higher than those lines and not aim to compete with the bottom feeders.

[littlesteelo]

I agree that it's only sensible that P&O try to attract younger cruisers. However, I would imagine that the World Cruises, for example have many older passengers on them as do some of the cruises to places like the Fjords. The company cannot afford to alienate all the older cruisers by, for example getting rid of formal evenings and making it Smart and Casual only. We would not continue to cruise with P&O were they to do this. It will be very difficult to attract a new set of cruisers and still keep their loyal older cruisers. I don't think they would want to make the older cruisers - the ones who have the money to cruise more - to look to another cruise line.

 

Some of the ideas I have read on this thread seem to be saying, forget about the older cruisers, let's get rid of the formal dress and appeal to the youngsters. I would hope there is room for both older and younger people who like cruising. On our last cruise I was chatting with a young couple - early 30s I would think, and they loved the opportunity to dress up, the wife said it was the only chance to do this that she had and she loved it. The husband even said he thought he looked quite good in a James Bond sort of way!

 

I hope P&O will find a way ahead that doesn't alienate any particular age range.

 

I perfectly agree with this. Royal Caribbean have the right idea if you have ever sailed with them. They have formal nights, a good mix of activities for old and young, and a variety of itineraries around the world.

 

The only thing which is limiting P&O from doing the same is the number of ships they have.