Beware of Teenage Girls and Crew Members

[boulders]

You know, for years I've been telling parents on this, and other cruise forums, to not let their kids run willy nilly on cruise ships just for the reason the OP tells us. But many times, parents tell me I'm crazy, overreacting, don't know what I'm talking about, and they let their teen daughters run wild on these ships. Too many parents think that ships are safe environments where nothing can happen. Even though I tell them that ships are the same as any city, and that perverts, sexual predators and God-knows-what else, are on cruise ships, they still refuse to see reality.

 

Sam, PLEASE, post this on the Family Cruising Board and maybe wake up some of these parents who refuse to believe that their daughters are untouchable.

 

I doubt that the OP let her daughter "run wild". I would not label the crew member in the OP a "pervert" or a "sexual predator" either. I frequent the family board and I have never seen anyone say that they let their teens "run wild" either. It is OK to let your daughter out of your sight after a certain age. My dd15 right now (middle of the day, summer vacation), off with her friends at the local fair. (and no parent) :eek:

[boulders]

You know, for years I've been telling parents on this, and other cruise forums, to not let their kids run willy nilly on cruise ships just for the reason the OP tells us. But many times, parents tell me I'm crazy, overreacting, don't know what I'm talking about, and they let their teen daughters run wild on these ships. Too many parents think that ships are safe environments where nothing can happen. Even though I tell them that ships are the same as any city, and that perverts, sexual predators and God-knows-what else, are on cruise ships, they still refuse to see reality.

 

Sam, PLEASE, post this on the Family Cruising Board and maybe wake up some of these parents who refuse to believe that their daughters are untouchable.

 

I doubt that the OP let her daughter "run wild". I would not label the crew member in the OP a "pervert" or a "sexual predator" either. I frequent the family board and I have never seen anyone say that they let their teens "run wild" either. It is OK to let your daughter out of your sight after a certain age. My dd15 right now (middle of the day, summer vacation), off with her friends at the local fair. (and no parent) :eek:

[Elaine5715]

This could be a good example for parents who think "aging up" kids for the clubs is okay.

 

There may have been prior incidents with this crew member or they may have a no tolerance policy.

[notentirelynormal]

My 16 year old daughter and I just returned from a cruise on Oasis of the Seas. My daughter is a very naive 16 years old (mentally much younger). She does have some comprehension issues and attends a school for children with learning disabilities. Even though I've repeatedly told her to beware of strangers, it's very difficult on a cruise ship because everyone is being so friendly. On a previous cruise, she was contacted afterwards on FB by our server. I messaged him then blocked him telling him it was inappropriate. It happened again this time only it went further. My daughter received a phone call from the Pool Towel Attendant. After intense grilling, I found out she had been talking to him all week on the ship. He wrote notes to her professing enternal love. I was livid. I just want to warn all parents to watch your teenagers. My daughter will never leave my side again on a ship. I reported the person involved. He texted my daughter and I responded telling him to never contact her again. I will be changing her telephone number this weekend. The only day she was alone by the pool was the last day. We knew many people on this cruise so I foolishly thought she'd be safe in a crowd. I did not allow her out on her own in the evenings. No matter how careful you are, there are predators everywhere. Do not be lulled into complacency thinking it couldn't happen to your child.

 

Let's clear something up. The first employee contacted her and the parent said to stop. There is no indication that the first employee tried to contact her after the father asked it to stop. The second guy should have stopped after the phone call IF the father had talked to him then. He does not say that he knew about the phone call. He knew about the text message and that is when his daughter told him about the notes. He stopped after the text message. Once the crew members were informed they both stopped.

 

We weren't there and don't know how this went down. She could have been flirting, could have told them that she was older.... we simply don't know and neither does he. The OP says his daughter is emotionally younger then her 16 years. Let's for the fun of it say she is at the "10" mental age group. I would not let my 10 YO be alone with someone long enough for them to exchange numbers without finding out what is going on.

 

momofmeg: you are often very opinionated on many issues so kind of the pot calling the kettle black here. Every autistic child is different. We work continually to teach her in all areas. It is a 24/7 job. If we were on a cruise and I felt that she couldn't respond properly she would be by our sides or in the kid's center. It is plain and simple. What I "expect" is that if the parent doesn't think she is capable then as a parent he should not have taken down his guard and let her wonder by herself because everyone was so friendly. A parent's responsibility is never "on vacation" and blaming it 100% on the crew members and 0% on his daughter is wrong. There were two people involved - three if you count the father. The OP said they knew many people on the cruise. Maybe there should have been a "buddy system" set up. Also, if the father knew that it happened on the first time, should he not have been more aware of the second cruise?

[kitty9]

I doubt that the OP let her daughter "run wild". I would not label the crew member in the OP a "pervert" or a "sexual predator" either. I frequent the family board and I have never seen anyone say that they let their teens "run wild" either. It is OK to let your daughter out of your sight after a certain age. My dd15 right now (middle of the day, summer vacation), off with her friends at the local fair. (and no parent) :eek:

 

I NEVER said the OP let his daughter run wild. Neither did I say the crew member in question was a pervert. Where did you get this idea? I SAID some parents don't understand that there are unsavory characters on every cruise, just like there are unsavory characters in every city. And even though one tries to warn parents that there can be nasty characters on ships, they still let their kids run wild.

 

Please read my post again with different comprehension.

[jamessemaj]

This isn't really a cruise issue. What happens on the ship happened before boarding and will continue after on dry land. I see no connection between the girl's ship experience and how she is otherwise. This is frivolous law suit talk.

[gerif]

Let's clear something up. The first employee contacted her and the parent said to stop. There is no indication that the first employee tried to contact her after the father asked it to stop. The second guy should have stopped after the phone call IF the father had talked to him then. He does not say that he knew about the phone call. He knew about the text message and that is when his daughter told him about the notes. He stopped after the text message. Once the crew members were informed they both stopped.

 

We weren't there and don't know how this went down. She could have been flirting, could have told them that she was older.... we simply don't know and neither does he. The OP says his daughter is emotionally younger then her 16 years. Let's for the fun of it say she is at the "10" mental age group. I would not let my 10 YO be alone with someone long enough for them to exchange numbers without finding out what is going on.

 

momofmeg: you are often very opinionated on many issues so kind of the pot calling the kettle black here. Every autistic child is different. We work continually to teach her in all areas. It is a 24/7 job. If we were on a cruise and I felt that she couldn't respond properly she would be by our sides or in the kid's center. It is plain and simple. What I "expect" is that if the parent doesn't think she is capable then as a parent he should not have taken down his guard and let her wonder by herself because everyone was so friendly. A parent's responsibility is never "on vacation" and blaming it 100% on the crew members and 0% on his daughter is wrong. There were two people involved - three if you count the father. The OP said they knew many people on the cruise. Maybe there should have been a "buddy system" set up. Also, if the father knew that it happened on the first time, should he not have been more aware of the second cruise?

 

Very well written and echoes my thoughts precisely. Nowhere does OP state that the employee continued contact after being told to stop nor does he state what messages might have been sent by his daughter. Many people on these boards report that they keep in touch with cruiseline employees via Facebook and other social media. Do all of these employees deserve to lose their livelihoods because a passenger provided them with contact information?

 

OP, in light of all you reported, and assuming the employee ceased contact when asked to, I feel you totally overreacted and possibly destroyed someone's life because your daughter led him on. Maybe she did not understand the ramifications of giving out personal information. After the first instance, it was your job as a parent to see that it didn't happen again.

[imouer]

I really disagree with this. I've taken my teens on Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Disney and HAL. The ONLY cruise line they did not like was Carnival. Their favourite is HAL. Second is Royal Caribbean.

 

I guess everyone is different... I just showed my girls this reply and they got indignant LOL.. I sent them with my mother on a HAL cruise 1.5 years ago and they now call HAL "the geriatric ward" and told me I wasted my money sending them.

[imouer]

 

OP, in light of all you reported, and assuming the employee ceased contact when asked to, I feel you totally overreacted and possibly destroyed someone's life because your daughter led him on. Maybe she did not understand the ramifications of giving out personal information. After the first instance, it was your job as a parent to see that it didn't happen again.

 

OMG this is such BS! this mentally challenged KID "led" (your words) on an adult and its HER fault that he "fell in love" with her??? REALLY??!? Further more "ruining HIS life" [losing job] is a lot more desirable an outcome than him ruining MY girls [mentally traumatizing] life on the next cruise! THANKS OPS for taking care of this bad actor and helping to protect our children!

[gerif]

OMG this is such BS! this mentally challenged KID "led" (your words) on an adult and its HER fault that he "fell in love" with her??? REALLY??!? Further more "ruining HIS life" [losing job] is a lot more desirable an outcome than him ruining MY girls [mentally traumatizing] life on the next cruise! THANKS OPS for taking care of this bad actor and helping to protect our children!

 

I speak as the grandmother of two mentally challenged teens. One is profoundly autistic but the 17 year old is on the Aspergers spectrum and extremely socially immature (but not physically). She is a National Honor Society student but does not do well in social situations. She would think nothing of giving out personal information to anyone who paid her a little attention. So, yes, I do know what I'm talking about and hope OP watches his daughter more carefully and teaches her what is and is not acceptable behavior.

[imouer]

I speak as the grandmother of two mentally challenged teens. One is profoundly autistic but the 17 year old is on the Aspergers spectrum and extremely socially immature (but not physically). She is a National Honor Society student but does not do well in social situations. She would think nothing of giving out personal information to anyone who paid her a little attention. So, yes, I do know what I'm talking about and hope OP watches his daughter more carefully and teaches her what is and is not acceptable behavior.

 

OPs specifically says in the first post that he DOES teach her this but obviously some kids may not be too teachable and you cannot keep kids on a leash either. The fact is this guy was the ADULT. It is HIS duty to act appropriately with CHILDREN and its the cruise lines duty to act appropriately with their staff that seek to abuse our children. Ops did his job to protect his kid and he took the next step to protect mine and YOUR grand children too... How can you fault him or make her, the victim, the perpetrator? I find that really disturbing. It reminds me of people that blame the victims for being raped by sickos... it is wrong, I am sorry, I cannot agree with you on this

[momofmeg]

I speak as the grandmother of two mentally challenged teens. One is profoundly autistic but the 17 year old is on the Aspergers spectrum and extremely socially immature (but not physically). She is a National Honor Society student but does not do well in social situations. She would think nothing of giving out personal information to anyone who paid her a little attention. So, yes, I do know what I'm talking about and hope OP watches his daughter more carefully and teaches her what is and is not acceptable behavior.

 

I have Aspergers myself. I can tell you that as a teen I was emotionally immature but FAR from mentally challenged like your GD. In my case, I would not have given out information but I was terrified of everything as a teen. My mom had taught me well I guess, but I can't blame her for being overly protective.

 

My friend's daughter on the other hand whom I mentioned earlier (autism and not Aspergers) was fired from a job for disappearing into the back room of the store she worked in with a male employee for too long a period. (age 18) Her parents were upset because they had taught her better.They also told the store that they knew she was special needs as the store got some kind of compensation from the government for hiring her and they should have kept a better eye on her. Her parents were told by the store that they were not babysitters. This girl has not held a job since.

 

My point-many people function fairly well on the autism spectrum, others do not. You can't put everyone on the autism spectrum under one label. what one is capable of doing/understanding is not necessarily what another is capable of doing/understanding.

[momofmeg]

No flaming from me because I tend to agree with you. In todays world it is never the fault of a parent and certainly the child is never wrong. If you don't believe that just ask any teacher! Plus there are several variables that come into play here-all of which only the daughter knows the answers. Here's one.....while the OP says his daughter is "mentally younger" than 16 she may very well be "physically older" than 16. Perhaps she told them she was 18. I'm not saying she did or didn't.....just saying maybe.

 

Yes, my daughter teaches and she would agree and yes I do believe the parents should have kept a better eye on her.

 

Just like my friends in my above post, they felt because the store knew their daughter was autistic,they should have kept a better eye on her. The store let them know THAT was not their responsibility, that she was still responsible for her actions, not them, and if she was not responsible then she should not be working. She has been on disability ever since.

[momofmeg]

I speak as the grandmother of two mentally challenged teens. One is profoundly autistic but the 17 year old is on the Aspergers spectrum and extremely socially immature (but not physically). She is a National Honor Society student but does not do well in social situations. She would think nothing of giving out personal information to anyone who paid her a little attention. So, yes, I do know what I'm talking about and hope OP watches his daughter more carefully and teaches her what is and is not acceptable behavior.

 

One thing autism and Aspergers is NOT mentally challenged; as you said your one granddaughter is an honor student. Usually this is true, people on the spectrum are exceptionally intelligent.

 

Mentally challenged is associated with IQs under 70 so please do not use that term as your grandchildren and their parents will be hurt. They and myself have trouble COMMUNICATING with people. That is a different part of the brain.

 

I know you would never call a stroke patient mentally challenged, although they may not walk or talk well because part of their brain was damaged with the stroke. Please do the same for your grandchildren.

[swsfrail]

 

... I found out she had been talking to him all week on the ship...

 

....I did not allow her out on her own in the evenings.....

 

Above are two comments that have me conflicted about this entire situation. If the OP knew that his daughter had a propensity to meet crew members and share contact information, who was keeping an eye on her during the daytime? That she had been "talking to him all week" and no one knew concerns me greatly. How could she have had the opportunity to communicate with a crew member "all week" if she hadn't been left alone and unsupervised during the day. And why only prevent her from going out alone in the evenings and not during the day? Wouldn't the opportunities that she had to be protected from be the same no matter what time of the day?

 

I don't know who to blame more: the crew members involved, or the parents who should have been more aware of what was going on from the beginning.

[wscott52]

Friend of mine was taken on a 3 day Carnival cruise by his GF's parents. In addition to the parents the GF's 14 yo sister also went. They had two adjoining rooms. One afternoon my friend and GF returned to the room in the middle of the afternoon and found the 14 yo and the room steward going at in flagrante delecto. The 14 yo's reaction was annoyance at being interrupted and the room steward fled in terror. As far as I know they never told the parents or the ship. My friend rationalized the 14 yo was the aggressor and instigator and the room steward wasn't really at fault. I disagreed but understood his point. I had the 14 yo in several classes as a substitute teacher. The school liked assigning me special ed classes because the boys couldn't intimidate me. The 14 yo sister was very pretty, extremely well built, and highly sexualized bordering on inappropriate in casual settings. If you have teenage girls on a ship you need to watch them closely. Predators are everywhere.

[momofmeg]

Friend of mine was taken on a 3 day Carnival cruise by his GF's parents. In addition to the parents the GF's 14 yo sister also went. They had two adjoining rooms. One afternoon my friend and GF returned to the room in the middle of the afternoon and found the 14 yo and the room steward going at in flagrante delecto. The 14 yo's reaction was annoyance at being interrupted and the room steward fled in terror. As far as I know they never told the parents or the ship. My friend rationalized the 14 yo was the aggressor and instigator and the room steward wasn't really at fault. I disagreed but understood his point. I had the 14 yo in several classes as a substitute teacher. The school liked assigning me special ed classes because the boys couldn't intimidate me. The 14 yo sister was very pretty, extremely well built, and highly sexualized bordering on inappropriate in casual settings. If you have teenage girls on a ship you need to watch them closely. Predators are everywhere.

 

Teens do a lot of hooking up and although I do not approve, when one is 14 and the other is an adult, that is STILL statutory rape.

 

OT but I am surprised that steward did not put on that extra lock. There is a lock you can put on that cards can't open. We use it to not be interrupted by the stewards-lol!

[gerif]

One thing autism and Aspergers is NOT mentally challenged; as you said your one granddaughter is an honor student. Usually this is true, people on the spectrum are exceptionally intelligent.

 

Mentally challenged is associated with IQs under 70 so please do not use that term as your grandchildren and their parents will be hurt. They and myself have trouble COMMUNICATING with people. That is a different part of the brain.

 

I know you would never call a stroke patient mentally challenged, although they may not walk or talk well because part of their brain was damaged with the stroke. Please do the same for your grandchildren.

 

You are absolutely right. I guess I should have said socially challenged as neither she nor her brother is intellectually challenged (while he cannot communicate except very basic needs, he can always find favorite videos on the iPad). She is not shy and will strike up a conversation with strangers but has difficulties with her peers. My thought was that this was the case with OPs daughter who was grateful for the attention.

[imouer]

I had to google "flagrante delecto" LOL

 

OK maybe I am a bad parent but.. I take cruises and set my girls free on the ship all week... I give them a basic lecture and not they are neither challenged in any way nor overtly sexual or over interested in boys in their nature soo.. maybe I am OK.

 

One reason that we cruise is BECAUSE we feel that it is a comparatively safe, contained environment for our kids! Allowing creeps to work there is an extreme violation of our trust. I would have hoped that the screening process would be better.

 

:confused:

[imouer]

They had two adjoining rooms. One afternoon my friend and GF returned to the room in the middle of the afternoon and found the 14 yo and the room steward going at in flagrante delecto.

 

OK, I didnt know what flagrante delecto meant so I did a Google image search and literally came up with this image:

 

 

I think I get it now :)

[Arzeena]

Someone contact my baby girl inappropriately they better hope the worse thing that happens to them is the loss of their job.

 

I am a nice and easy going guy...but mess with my kids, especially my daughter, and I will hunt you down like a dog.

 

BTW, my "baby girl" is almost 25...and the above still applies.

 

I would also warn "baby girl" to not give out cell phone numbers to crew/"strangers" or facebook them....not that baby girls listen:rolleyes:, but still.

[janetz]

I had to google "flagrante delecto" LOL

 

OK maybe I am a bad parent but.. I take cruises and set my girls free on the ship all week... I give them a basic lecture and not they are neither challenged in any way nor overtly sexual or over interested in boys in their nature soo.. maybe I am OK.

 

One reason that we cruise is BECAUSE we feel that it is a comparatively safe, contained environment for our kids! Allowing creeps to work there is an extreme violation of our trust. I would have hoped that the screening process would be better.

 

:confused:

 

A cruise ship is a small town. Are your girls set free at home? No judgement here but the creeps are everywhere!

[Arzeena]

While I agree these crew members should not have contacted your underage daughter - who takes responsibility for giving these crew members her face book name and private phone number? I mean, they didn't pull them out of a hat. She had to tell them. I think instead of blaming them 100% you need to have a sit down with your daughter and do some more parenting on what she should and shouldn't say. Again, I DO NOT think they should have contacted her BUT she should not be giving out her personal information either. Without that information none of this would have happened.

 

Before you flame me - my teenage daughter cruised (32 now) and yes she had contact with crew members. SHE gave them her personal information. We remained friends with some for years - even to them coming to our house. The key thing though - they didn't go into our records. They were given the information - just like the two crew members by the OP had to have been.

 

My 5 YO DGD is autistic and we spend countless hours teaching her what is ok to say and do with strangers and others outside our immediate family. It sounds like your naive (mentally younger) daughter - the OP's words - needs some more time spent on this issue. Again, NOT excusing the crews action but some responsibility has to fall on the person that gave them her personal information.

 

TOTALLY AGREE you. The crew member had no excuse and was dealt with appropriately by the company, but WHO takes the responsibility of giving out personal phone numbers and facebook info?

[Kezzie62]

We all talk about our 16 year olds as children. In most of Europe 16 is the age of consent. I have sat and watched girls of this age and they can be unbelievable. Maybe a stronger talk is needed with the daughter to point out the dangers of sharing info with someone you don't know. The guy has paid his price for the contact he had.

 

 

 

 

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[Porthopper101]

We all talk about our 16 year olds as children. In most of Europe 16 is the age of consent. I have sat and watched girls of this age and they can be unbelievable. Maybe a stronger talk is needed with the daughter to point out the dangers of sharing info with someone you don't know. The guy has paid his price for the contact he had.

 

 

 

 

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And some Asian countries people marry at age 16 or younger.