Cunard experience reduced? T & L rank 8th

[blaze14]

Many of you have read Travel and Leisure World's Best awards Aug 2013 issue:

 

1. Crystal 2. Regent 3. Azamara 4. Oceana 5. Holland America 6. RCI

7. Princess 8. Cunard 9, Celebrity 10. Norwegian

 

Those who have been on the other lines as well as Cunard recently, do you think that Holland America, Princess and RCI have improved their cruse experience to rise above the Cunard ships or do you think Cunard experience is not what it was some years ago?

 

I think it might be both. At one time they were rated luxury line and maybe the experience is not the quality of many of the competition. And maybe the price is not as much different since the top two include tips, drinks, coffee card, specialty restaurants etc. ?

 

What do you think of the Travel and Leisure rankings????

[BlueRiband]

Corporate should be worried that they were ranked behind RCI!. I just submitted a review for my July 21 day QM2 voyage and, long story short, it fell short of my experience just two years ago.

 

There is a world wide drop in bookings for all cruise lines right now. (Even the Seabourn board is looking for price drops.) But Cunard is making changes to the point where one cannot confidently book in advance without worry that something will be quite different by the time of sailing. In two years they left the British registry, eliminated the chaplaincy (recently restored), changed how CWC discounts are applied, requied payment in advance for excursions, and altered the dress code and smoking policy. And I can't wait until we get the first "live from" rants from the upcoming "Rocker Cruise."

 

It seems like Cunard is on a vicious cycle of price cutting to fill their ships. That pricing cannot support a luxury experience so the early bookers get pissed and look elsewhere, resulting in more cuts to go after an even lower demographic, and so on.

[Salacia]

Corporate should be worried that they were ranked behind RCI!. I just submitted a review for my July 21 day QM2 voyage and, long story short, it fell short of my experience just two years ago.

 

There is a world wide drop in bookings for all cruise lines right now. (Even the Seabourn board is looking for price drops.) But Cunard is making changes to the point where one cannot confidently book in advance without worry that something will be quite different by the time of sailing. In two years they left the British registry, eliminated the chaplaincy (recently restored), changed how CWC discounts are applied, requied payment in advance for excursions, and altered the dress code and smoking policy. And I can't wait until we get the first "live from" rants from the upcoming "Rocker Cruise."

 

It seems like Cunard is on a vicious cycle of price cutting to fill their ships. That pricing cannot support a luxury experience so the early bookers get pissed and look elsewhere, resulting in more cuts to go after an even lower demographic, and so on.

 

 

Blue Riband, the points you made resonate with me, sadly. May I add that I have also noticed that with increasingly frequency, there are less Cunard employees, both with the on-shore and on-board personnel. Franchises, consessions, and outside labor contracts leads me to wonder who actually works for Cunard? When Cunard/CCL UK says "We are Cunard" - who comprises the "we"?

 

As for early bookers, I will not be amongst those ranks again. Been there done that!

 

Regards,

Salacia

[fishywood]

Those who have been on the other lines as well as Cunard recently, do you think that Holland America, Princess and RCI have improved their cruse experience to rise above the Cunard ships or do you think Cunard experience is not what it was some years ago?

 

Having sailed Princess in December and a 22 day B2B on QM2 in May, I am well befuddled by these rankings. Yes there have been cutbacks on Cunard but not total elimination of what makes them stand out. Comparing my voyages on QM2 and QV in 2011 to this year I noticed not so much a dropoff in quality, just fewer opportunities to savor it. The Queens Room orchestra played barely more than half the evenings. Guest entertainers performing in the Theatre were up to standard, but the redundancies were annoying: in the 15 days between turnarounds in Southampton every one of them appeared twice--some thrice if you count the welcome and goodbye shows. Many sea days still featured interesting guest speakers and lovely classical musicians, yet some did not: there were days at sea with nothing scheduled in Illuminations between the 11:00 lecture and the 8:00 film. However this is just nitpicking: Cunard still offers one of the best spas at sea, one of the best afternoon teas, and the opportunity each evening to sit back with a well-mixed adult beverage and enjoy whatever live music your mood craves, be it a big band, jazz band, string quartet or pianist--even though one must now examine the Daily Programme closely to know precisely when and where.

 

Princess is a whole other story. They have cut fares nearly down to the level of mainstream lines, and the onboard experience now reflects it. I believe its remaining in the top ten of T&L rankings reflects that it is now being judged against the other lines at the bottom of the mainstream-premium-luxury continuum. (For the record, that is where they now should be placed, having fallen from the high end of premium. And it appears that Cunard still is [and in my opinion, still should be] judged as a luxury line, though it is certainly well known that Cunard is nowhere near as all-inclusive as the others). As Princess struggles to attract new customers through downward rebranding, it is foundering at sea in search of an identity. Without belaboring the specifics, I will just say that Princess' cutbacks in dining, entertainment and especially live music are truly jarring to someone who has been sailing them regularly since 1997 and as recently as 2009 had what I considered my finest cruising experience to that point on one of their ships.

 

So while I do sympathize with long time Cunarders who (justifiably) still expect the best, the "cutbacks" we all find lamentable at Cunard's end of the spectrum pale in comparison to those at the other end. Perhaps ratings remain high for HAL, Princess and RC simply because expectations among the mainstream lines have reached their nadir. However, when you look at Cunard's changes such as the obvious contradiction of aggressively promoting Hamburg as the start and end of voyages while at the same time announcing a stricter smoking policy one must clearly worry. Pray that this and the other changes are not the start of a complete rebranding a la Princess: when you try to offer something for everybody, you risk ending up with nothing for nobody.

[PLEIKU68]

Cunard is no longer a luxury line. That ship sailed when they were bought by CCL . It is a true pity that the Grand Dame of Luxury lines has fallen prey to the " Fun Ships ". I rather do fear further cutbacks are in the offering.

[Cruachan]

Cunard is no longer a luxury line. That ship sailed when they were bought by CCL .

 

But, as has been pointed out on here many many times, had it not been bought by CCL, Cunard would no longer exist.

 

It is a true pity that the Grand Dame of Luxury lines has fallen prey to the " Fun Ships "...

 

Fun Ships? Are there some Cunard ships on which I have yet to sail? Last time I looked the fun element on a Cunarder seemed to be playing a fast paced game of "dodge the mobility scooters"

 

:D:D:D

 

J

[Wordzz]

Cunard is no longer a luxury line. That ship sailed when they were bought by CCL . It is a true pity that the Grand Dame of Luxury lines has fallen prey to the " Fun Ships ". I rather do fear further cutbacks are in the offering.

 

I don't know if Cunard is a 'luxury line' - to be honest, I don't really know what that means, and I haven't done enough cruising to be able to compare with any real authority.

 

What I do know is that I first sailed Cunard (QM2) only last year (2012) on a TA, and this year have done another TA plus a Fjords cruise on QV. What we found each time was an experience that in our view was far, far superior to anything we experienced on either Princess or Celebrity in every way - food, service, ambiance,...

 

And as to Cunard operating 'fun ships' - well, certainly not in my limited experience they don't. Anything but, thank heavens.

 

There are things I would have otherwise, not least the recent dumbing down of the dress code, and who knows where that may lead. I'm a non-smoker, but I also think the smoking ban on balconies is a pity, though probably reflects a trend. But for the moment at least - at least, this was the case as of July this year - Cunard still offers an experience that more than matches any other holiday experience I've had, anywhere. And one which keeps me returning - we are booked for 14 nights on QV in 2014. I can't say that about the other lines we've used.

[pepperrn]

Cunard cost cutting?

 

I had a leaflet delivered to me this week;

"Princess Cruises. Seven nights cruising in the Caribbean, return flights from the UK included, from £399 pp".

Even allowing for the "from" bit (I'll bet one cabin, on one cruise was £399 pp for a nano-second before it sold out), these sort of crazy low prices are surely commercial suicide?

[Ray66]

Cunard cost cutting?

 

I had a leaflet delivered to me this week;

"Princess Cruises. Seven nights cruising in the Caribbean, return flights from the UK included, from £399 pp".

Even allowing for the "from" bit (I'll bet one cabin, on one cruise was £399 pp for a nano-second before it sold out), these sort of crazy low prices are surely commercial suicide?

 

There is a banner flashing that advertisement presently, sometimes at the bottom and sometimes at the top of the "Tipping for drinks - Commodore Club" thread. Also a 15 night Hawaii cruise from £799pp. It also states free OBC and free balcony upgrades.

 

Edit to add: it's also at the top of this thread now as well. :)

[Ray66]

Blue Riband, the points you made resonate with me, sadly. May I add that I have also noticed that with increasingly frequency, there are less Cunard employees, both with the on-shore and on-board personnel. Franchises, consessions, and outside labor contracts leads me to wonder who actually works for Cunard? When Cunard/CCL UK says "We are Cunard" - who comprises the "we"?

 

As for early bookers, I will not be amongst those ranks again. Been there done that!

 

Regards,

Salacia

 

Franchises/concessions is nothing new on the ships. I know someone who used to work in a hairdressing concession years ago on the QE2. Harding Bros who run the shops have been with Cunard since 2002 and P&O since 1999.

[Ray66]

Corporate should be worried that they were ranked behind RCI!. I just submitted a review for my July 21 day QM2 voyage and, long story short, it fell short of my experience just two years ago.

 

There is a world wide drop in bookings for all cruise lines right now. (Even the Seabourn board is looking for price drops.) But Cunard is making changes to the point where one cannot confidently book in advance without worry that something will be quite different by the time of sailing. In two years they left the British registry, eliminated the chaplaincy (recently restored), changed how CWC discounts are applied, requied payment in advance for excursions, and altered the dress code and smoking policy. And I can't wait until we get the first "live from" rants from the upcoming "Rocker Cruise."

 

It seems like Cunard is on a vicious cycle of price cutting to fill their ships. That pricing cannot support a luxury experience so the early bookers get pissed and look elsewhere, resulting in more cuts to go after an even lower demographic, and so on.

 

From what I've read in other CC forums, other cruise lines have been doing this for a while. Next thing could be pre-paid gratuities which is what I believe RCI do. And you forgot paying for shuttles if you've bought a Getaway fare (which is also something other Cruise lines do).

[seasidegal]

Having sailed Princess in December and a 22 day B2B on QM2 in May, I am well befuddled by these rankings. Yes there have been cutbacks on Cunard but not total elimination of what makes them stand out. Comparing my voyages on QM2 and QV in 2011 to this year I noticed not so much a dropoff in quality, just fewer opportunities to savor it. The Queens Room orchestra played barely more than half the evenings. Guest entertainers performing in the Theatre were up to standard, but the redundancies were annoying: in the 15 days between turnarounds in Southampton every one of them appeared twice--some thrice if you count the welcome and goodbye shows. Many sea days still featured interesting guest speakers and lovely classical musicians, yet some did not: there were days at sea with nothing scheduled in Illuminations between the 11:00 lecture and the 8:00 film. However this is just nitpicking: Cunard still offers one of the best spas at sea, one of the best afternoon teas, and the opportunity each evening to sit back with a well-mixed adult beverage and enjoy whatever live music your mood craves, be it a big band, jazz band, string quartet or pianist--even though one must now examine the Daily Programme closely to know precisely when and where.

 

Princess is a whole other story. They have cut fares nearly down to the level of mainstream lines, and the onboard experience now reflects it. I believe its remaining in the top ten of T&L rankings reflects that it is now being judged against the other lines at the bottom of the mainstream-premium-luxury continuum. (For the record, that is where they now should be placed, having fallen from the high end of premium. And it appears that Cunard still is [and in my opinion, still should be] judged as a luxury line, though it is certainly well known that Cunard is nowhere near as all-inclusive as the others). As Princess struggles to attract new customers through downward rebranding, it is foundering at sea in search of an identity. Without belaboring the specifics, I will just say that Princess' cutbacks in dining, entertainment and especially live music are truly jarring to someone who has been sailing them regularly since 1997 and as recently as 2009 had what I considered my finest cruising experience to that point on one of their ships.

 

So while I do sympathize with long time Cunarders who (justifiably) still expect the best, the "cutbacks" we all find lamentable at Cunard's end of the spectrum pale in comparison to those at the other end. Perhaps ratings remain high for HAL, Princess and RC simply because expectations among the mainstream lines have reached their nadir. However, when you look at Cunard's changes such as the obvious contradiction of aggressively promoting Hamburg as the start and end of voyages while at the same time announcing a stricter smoking policy one must clearly worry. Pray that this and the other changes are not the start of a complete rebranding a la Princess: when you try to offer something for everybody, you risk ending up with nothing for nobody.

 

Excellent post.

 

I am well befuddled by these rankings

 

Me, too. :confused:

 

Not sure how Cunard got ranked below RC.

 

We enjoy RC's ships for what they do well and that is have many activities for children and teens that keep them very active while on board. I would say, the food is comparable with QM2 (good-excellent food) but not quite on a par with what we experienced on QE. However, the non-stop loud

announcements i.e. the selling of gold by the inch and 'time for bingo', etc. should immediately put it below Cunard. Nothing says classy like a non-stop barker barking their wares.:eek:

 

RC does have a better guest relation department (in our experience) and better refund policies.

 

Cunard has peaceful and relaxing sea days (hard to get that on a RC ship), classier interiors, evening meals that still require passengers to dress above 'gym wear', libraries that meet that definition and interiors that are superior in decor.

 

RC floats land based activities at sea and Cunard allows the sea to be the star attraction.

 

Comparing RC and Cunard is like comparing Holiday Inn with the Four Seasons.

 

Re: Cost-cutting - Do not understand how they cannot cost-cut when their fares are getting so much cheaper in an age of more expensive fuel and food costs. Our last few cruises, we have joked that it would be almost cheaper to say on a ship than to live on land (and cooking and cleaning is included on a ship :) ) Cheaper fares come with the added cost of possibly getting a less enjoyable experience. Sad to say, you can't have one without the other.

 

best regards,

seasidegal

[Jim Avery]

If you really want evidence of the end of the world, go over to the Carnival boards and read the complaints over there about lowering standards and cheapening the food.:eek::eek::eek:

[Glammy Grammy]

I can only comment on the experience of our last Cunard cruise in December 2012 - we had a superb time, and would sail Cunard again without hesitation. Never tried RC as it appears too family orientated, with lots of fun in the sun, where we prefer something a little less frantic! Sounds great for families though.

 

We have friends who love RC, went on Cunard in June for the first time and were less than impressed. It's finding what suits you, wouldn't do for us all to be the same.

[LadyL1]

in the past 12 months I have been on 5 cruises. 2 Cunard, 2 Celebrity & 1 P&O. The latter a big mistake and never again.

 

With regard to Cunard, one journey was in the Grills the other Britannia. In the Grills I can only say that the size of the pillow chocolates are now smaller, everything else was as expected. Last week on the QE, I had a most enjoyable cruise and found very little "dumbing down" In fact some of the lunchtime specialities in the Lido were tremendous, especially on the seafood days. I think it is fair to say that the meal portions in the restaurant might be slightly smaller, but the waste I have seen from some people's greed perhaps precipitated that. Sadly the lobster portions are less generous now on the final formal night, but the beef wellington or chateaubriand appears to much the same and my husband always says it is delicious. As has been said on this thread, what is given is surely reflected by the prices which in real terms have plummeted. I am sure a lot of the whingers re so called cuts will not admit to having booked a "Getaway fare" at a rock bottom price.

 

As for Celebrity, we have again once been in the suites, the other a balcony cabin. Quite frankly there is no comparison to Cunard with the food if you are paying top prices for top cabins! OK you do get a couple (depending on cruise length) a complimentary meals in the premium restaurants, but the rest of the voyage you eat in the MDR with vastly more tightly packed tables. The good thing with Celebrity is the "anytime dining" which they use the upper floor of the restaurant. However, it does not always work smoothly! Also I do feel that now they are offering so many free drinks packages, it is certainly starting to attract a different type of clientele!

 

I still say Cunard is my favourite line. We have been tempted to try one of the smaller luxury ships, but see little point in paying for inclusive tours when we prefer to do our own shore trips, even by if local transport. Also would miss the Queens Room venue and the formality that remains. Celebrity cannot compare with the ambiance of a Cunard ship, and it is quite common to see the pax totally disregard the dress code.

 

When we left S'ton this month the Independence of the Seas crossed our bow and the noise/music from the partying on the outer decks was horrendous; I will not be moving up to RCL!!!

 

From other posts with regards to Princess, I think Cunard are maintaining a very good standard for what we pay. Long may it continue, and I certainly cannot understand their 8th position in T&L. The 3 Queen suit us, and I will readily sail on any of them without preference for a cruise, but nothing beats the QM2 for a TA crossing.

[rafinmd]

I think T&L is primarily a US magazine. I have felt and think I have seen evidence of others feeling that current Cunard itineraries are not very attractive to Americans and that might have something to do with the lower rankings. My favorite line is Crystal and I enjoy both Cunard and HAL. I somewhat prefer the Cunard experience to the HAL experience but much prefer HAL's smaller ships. If given a choice of the same itinerary on QE/QV or Eurodam/Neiuw Amsterdam, I'd want the Queen but would still prefer the smaller ship.

 

Roy

[capnpugwash]

Strangely this 8th ranking is for "large ships" category, in the "mega ships" category Cunard came 3rd. It seems that QM2 must be perceived by this publication as a mega ship in spite of having a passenger capacity of a mere 2,620/3,090.

[seasidegal]

in the past 12 months I have been on 5 cruises. 2 Cunard, 2 Celebrity & 1 P&O. The latter a big mistake and never again.

 

With regard to Cunard, one journey was in the Grills the other Britannia. In the Grills I can only say that the size of the pillow chocolates are now smaller, everything else was as expected. Last week on the QE, I had a most enjoyable cruise and found very little "dumbing down" In fact some of the lunchtime specialities in the Lido were tremendous,

especially on the seafood days.

 

We loved the QE and found their food to collectively be above what we have experienced on other ships. I agree with your comments about the Lido, for a ship's buffet area it is top-notch. The Chef on the QE the end of March was on board the QM2 in May. Very happy to see him on any ship that we are on. :)

 

 

I think it is fair to say that the meal portions in the restaurant might be slightly smaller, but the waste I have seen from some people's greed perhaps precipitated that. Sadly the lobster portions are less generous now on the final formal night, but the beef wellington or chateaubriand appears to much the same and my husband always says it is delicious. As has been said on this thread, what is given is surely reflected by the prices which in real terms have plummeted. I am sure a lot of the whingers re so called cuts will not admit to having booked a "Getaway fare" at a rock bottom price.

 

 

Comparing to cruises we took even a few years ago, the prices are far better. (not to mention the OBC's are also higher). On the other hand, we travel back and forth from Canada to Florida frequently and comparing the rates now for a nightly (decent) hotel, food prices while traveling and gas, land travel costs have gone up and while cruising costs have gone down. If one 'gets what they pay for', I would say that one gets far more value for their dollar when they cruise.

 

 

I still say Cunard is my favourite line. We have been tempted to try one of the smaller luxury ships, but see little point in paying for inclusive tours when we prefer to do our own shore trips, even by if local transport. Also would miss the Queens Room venue and the formality that remains. Celebrity cannot compare with the ambiance of a Cunard ship, and it is quite common to see the pax totally disregard the dress code.

 

Sadly, it sounds like Celebrity is going the way of their sister company RC regarding the dress code. There are only so many notches you can take the dress code down before the 'anything goes' becomes the code. :eek: (not a pretty sight)

 

 

I think Cunard are maintaining a very good standard for what we pay. Long may it continue, and I certainly cannot understand their 8th position in T&L. The 3 Queen suit us, and I will readily sail on any of them without preference for a cruise, but nothing beats the QM2 for a TA crossing.

 

Agree!

 

best regards,

seasidegal

[BlueRiband]

...I think Cunard are maintaining a very good standard for what we pay. Long may it continue, and I certainly cannot understand their 8th position in T&L. The 3 Queen suit us, and I will readily sail on any of them without preference for a cruise, but nothing beats the QM2 for a TA crossing.

 

Thank you for your excellent comparison summary based on you personal observations. T&L is published in the States by American Express. Their cards (generally) require payment in full each month so those travelers are more upscale and not looking for low monthly payments. Not having read how they did the rankings I'll presume it was a card member/reader survey.

 

I worry that the serene sea day experience on Cunard will disappear if deeper price cuts mean that they have to offset lost fare revenue by spewing constant announcements for revenue generating activities and promotions.

 

Shanks mused about "loosening up" the dress code and we got what I observed last month. Next we may next hear Gerard Tempest musing that the ship's formal surroundings make vacationers "uncomfortable" and we'll get waiters in "smart" polos and chinos. You'll know all is lost when the tacky door decorations so prevalent on the "fun ships" start to make an inroad. (I find this crap about as fun and artistic as spray paint graffiti on a subway wall. And just about as degrading to an elegantly appointed ship.)

[pepperrn]

You'll know all is lost when the tacky door decorations so prevalent on the "fun ships" start to make an inroad. (I find this crap about as fun and artistic as spray paint graffiti on a subway wall. And just about as degrading to an elegantly appointed ship.)

Hi BlueRiband,

Sadly, I've seen this rubbish/tacky junk, in cabin passageways on several occasions already.

I happened to mention it (in all innocence, not knowing that I was sharing the table with two perpetrators) over lunch on one QM2 cruise at a table for eight, saying (as a conversation opener, expecting to hear agreement) that I “found it intrusive and tasteless”.

I was immediately told, quite firmly, by two ladies at the table; "I do it so I can find my cabin easily, all the doors look the same" & "I paid for the door, I'll do with it what I want, it's my cruise and none of your business!".

I wanted to reply "look at the cabin numbers like everyone else" & "then decorate the inside of the door, the bit you've paid for"... but wisely thought better of it and said "Really? How interesting".

It was a conversation stopper :o .

[Cruachan]

Hi BlueRiband,

Sadly, I've seen this rubbish/tacky junk, in cabin passageways on several occasions already.

I happened to mention it (in all innocence, not knowing that I was sharing the table with two perpetrators) over lunch on one QM2 cruise at a table for eight, saying (as a conversation opener, expecting to hear agreement) that I “found it intrusive and tasteless”.

I was immediately told, quite firmly, by two ladies at the table; "I do it so I can find my cabin easily, all the doors look the same" & "I paid for the door, I'll do with it what I want, it's my cruise and none of your business!".

I wanted to reply "look at the cabin numbers like everyone else" and "then decorate the inside of the door, the bit you've paid for"... but thought better of it and said "Really? How interesting".

It was a conversation stopper :o .

 

Damn! I went out this afternoon and bought all my door decorations for next month. Does that mean I'll have to leave it all at home now?

 

:(:(:(

 

J

[pepperrn]

Damn! I went out this afternoon and bought all my door decorations for next month. Does that mean I'll have to leave it all at home now?:(:(:(J

But your's will only be a sign directing the stewards as to where to deliver the first breakfast... That hardly counts ;) .

[Cruachan]

But your's will only be a sign directing the stewards as to where to deliver the first breakfast... That hardly counts ;) .

 

You've just given me an idea! :D

 

J

[pepperrn]

You've just given me an idea! :DJ

Oh noooooooo.....

[Cruachan]

Oh noooooooo.....

 

Watch this space!

 

J