Canceling gratuity

[Typhoon1]

That's called Mobility Assist Team or MAT team. It's shared in ports (both when docked and tender ports) among Housekeeping, Dining Room and Beverage, usually two crew from each Dept. on one hour shifts

 

Those guys bust their tails in the hot sun, then go back to waiting tables at the end of the day. Talk about dedication.

[sail7seas]

HAL's website explains tipping/Hotel Service Charge very clearly. We know what is expected of us when we book our cruises. When we choose to book, aren't we agreeing to what is expected of us?

 

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

According to an article in our newspaper today, beginning in Jan, the IRS is going to count Auto Service charges as tips & they will count as regular wages..Employment taxes will have to be withheld & they will have to be reported as regular wages..According to a local employment attorney, in order for it to be called a tip, the Customer has to have complete discretion over it..

 

Wonder how it will affect the cruise lines?

 

Betty

 

 

If the ship is not flagged in U.S. and the employee is not from or paying taxes to U.S. (such as stewards etc from Indonesia and Phillipines), I don't think it has any impact on the cruise line.

 

Anyone who pays U.S. Income Taxes and is recipient of a piece of Hotel Service Charge (which isn't all that many people on HAL ships), will have to report that income. But I suspect they probably are supposed to report it now anyway.

 

[souredtocruising]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us. Have people forgotten what tipping is for? To me it has always represented appreciation for service received over and above what is normally expected. The cruise line has made this charge mandatory so that they can pass their obligation to pay their employees what they feel is reasonable. I will not be bullying into paying something that the cruise line should buck up. And please please do not sympathize with the cruise line....it is a billion dollar profitable industry - just look up the stats. They would have us all believe that they are operating on a shoe string.

If a staff member provides exceptional service I will tip otherwise I am paying up front what the cruise is worth. The other note I would like to make here is that I have been cruising for 14 years and in the beginning (when tipping was voluntary) you would always get the sob stories from the staff about how far away from home they are, how they miss their families, how little they have and on and on and on. Funny how all these sad faces and stories disappeared when you watched the same staff getting off the ship in various ports with big smiling faces carrying their expensive cell phones, computers, wearing their designer watches, hats and clothing (often much better dressed than we were). Did we feel duped? You Bet! Remember they are living on the ship. They are getting their room and board. They are making multiple times the income they would be making if they were at home. They end their contracts and return home with more money than most of their fellow countrymen will see in their lifetime. That is why so many of them come to work for the cruise lines! It is not them that I feel sorry for. It is the uninformed, uneducated passengers who get suckered in.

[serendipity1499]

HAL's website explains tipping/Hotel Service Charge very clearly. We know what is expected of us when we book our cruises. When we choose to book, aren't we agreeing to what is expected of us?

 

Absolutely!

 

If the ship is not flagged in U.S. and the employee is not from or paying taxes to U.S. (such as stewards etc from Indonesia and Phillipines), I don't think it has any impact on the cruise line.

 

Anyone who pays U.S. Income Taxes and is recipient of a piece of Hotel Service Charge (which isn't all that many people on HAL ships), will have to report that income. But I suspect they probably are supposed to report it now anyway.

 

You are probably right but HAL's Headquarters is in Seattle..

Doesn't HAL have to report their total income to the IRS when they collect the total bill including the Service Charge from us? Then when they dole it out to the crew, wouldn't that come under business expenses?

Imagine someone who is familiar with our Tax code would know the answer to this question..

Betty

[OVgirl]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us. Have people forgotten what tipping is for? To me it has always represented appreciation for service received over and above what is normally expected. The cruise line has made this charge mandatory so that they can pass their obligation to pay their employees what they feel is reasonable. I will not be bullying into paying something that the cruise line should buck up. And please please do not sympathize with the cruise line....it is a billion dollar profitable industry - just look up the stats. They would have us all believe that they are operating on a shoe string.

If a staff member provides exceptional service I will tip otherwise I am paying up front what the cruise is worth. The other note I would like to make here is that I have been cruising for 14 years and in the beginning (when tipping was voluntary) you would always get the sob stories from the staff about how far away from home they are, how they miss their families, how little they have and on and on and on. Funny how all these sad faces and stories disappeared when you watched the same staff getting off the ship in various ports with big smiling faces carrying their expensive cell phones, computers, wearing their designer watches, hats and clothing (often much better dressed than we were). Did we feel duped? You Bet! Remember they are living on the ship. They are getting their room and board. They are making multiple times the income they would be making if they were at home. They end their contracts and return home with more money than most of their fellow countrymen will see in their lifetime. That is why so many of them come to work for the cruise lines! It is not them that I feel sorry for. It is the uninformed, uneducated passengers who get suckered in.

 

That sounds like a very sad story about your cruise experience. My sympathies.

[serendipity1499]

Hi, coming from the UK we have a different take on this subject.

The principle of tipping is not as set in stone as in the States.

We do tip over here but often round up and if that's 10% or 2% then so be it.

We are aghast when we see 15 to 18% added to a bill as we saw in New York.

We went on a HAL back to back 3 week cruise in January and reduced the tips to about 75% of the recommend. We do that because our perception that 12$ each per day or whatever it was is too much, even if the service is fantastic.

On all our cruises we leave the automatic tip on if we think the amount is right. Usually we leave it on when we cruise with Fred Olsen, Thompson or P and O.

These are UK lines and the automatic tip is no where near what they are on HAL.

Now if it is true that they have to pool the tips then that may make me reconsider if I ever cruise with HAL again.

We do tip bar staff at the end of a cruise if they have looked after us over and above what we expect as standard.

Interesting reading all these posts, nearly as intense as dress codes.

Happy cruising.

 

Actually tipping began in ancient Rome & then it was established in England in the 16th century, way before it came to the U.S.

Just read an article in our local newspaper that tipping began in the Roman era when feudal lords met beggars along the way & tossed them coins in an attempt to buy safe passage..

Then in 16th century England, brass urns with the inscription "To insure Promptitude" were placed in coffee houses & later in Pubs.. People would tip in advance by putting money in the urns..

Toward the end of the 1890's, tipping was firmly established in the United States..They tried to ban tipping in the U.S. & Washington became the first state to pass a law to this effect..But since many people were still tipping those laws were repealed between 1913 & 1926..

The above info comes from the "History of tipping from sixteenth century England to the United States in 1910" Ofer H. Azar, Dept. of Economics, Northwestern University..

Betty

[serendipity1499]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us. Have people forgotten what tipping is for? To me it has always represented appreciation for service received over and above what is normally expected. The cruise line has made this charge mandatory so that they can pass their obligation to pay their employees what they feel is reasonable. I will not be bullying into paying something that the cruise line should buck up. And please please do not sympathize with the cruise line....it is a billion dollar profitable industry - just look up the stats. They would have us all believe that they are operating on a shoe string.

If a staff member provides exceptional service I will tip otherwise I am paying up front what the cruise is worth. The other note I would like to make here is that I have been cruising for 14 years and in the beginning (when tipping was voluntary) you would always get the sob stories from the staff about how far away from home they are, how they miss their families, how little they have and on and on and on. Funny how all these sad faces and stories disappeared when you watched the same staff getting off the ship in various ports with big smiling faces carrying their expensive cell phones, computers, wearing their designer watches, hats and clothing (often much better dressed than we were). Did we feel duped? You Bet! Remember they are living on the ship. They are getting their room and board. They are making multiple times the income they would be making if they were at home. They end their contracts and return home with more money than most of their fellow countrymen will see in their lifetime. That is why so many of them come to work for the cruise lines! It is not them that I feel sorry for. It is the uninformed, uneducated passengers who get suckered in.

 

What a shame that you did not enjoy your cruise! Am I correct in assuming that you remove all service charges in restaurants, resorts, & hotels when you travel, even when you have good service?

[jtl513]

We went on a HAL back to back 3 week cruise in January and reduced the tips to about 75% of the recommend. We do that because our perception that 12$ each per day or whatever it was is too much, even if the service is fantastic.

Once again, the HSC is NOT a tip, it is a CHARGE for services. Would you expect that you could walk into a hotel in London and decide for yourself to pay 75% of the room rate charge, or 75% of the meal charge in a restaurant because you thought it was "too much"?

 

An establishment may agree to reduce their charges if you convince them their product was unsatisfactory, but if it was satisfactory then you are simply lying and cheating by asking them reduce it.

 

If you don't want to pay what is being charged, then go to a cheaper cruise line! :mad:

 

Then in 16th century England, brass urns with the inscription "To insure Promptitude" were placed in coffee houses & later in Pubs..

Sorry, IF that was true it would have to be TEP, because you are not insuring anything.

[RJ2002]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us.

 

Hmmm, quite a first post.

[Wakepatrol]

Hmmm, quite a first post.

 

Yes... And paragraph free as well

[sail7seas]

Absolutely!

 

 

 

You are probably right but HAL's Headquarters is in Seattle..

 

Doesn't HAL have to report their total income to the IRS when they collect the total bill including the Service Charge from us? Then when they dole it out to the crew, wouldn't that come under business expenses?

 

Imagine someone who is familiar with our Tax code would know the answer to this question..

 

Betty

 

I think that is the point of not flagging the ships in U.S.

Taxes and employee minimum wage etc and it's all about the $$

 

I don't think a steward from Indonesia has any tax liability to U.S. if they work on the ships and return directly home from the ship. No U.S. residency; no U.S. Income tax consequence.

 

Please....... any accountants who know different, kindly help us out here. :)

 

[cruz chic]

HAL's website explains tipping/Hotel Service Charge very clearly. We know what is expected of us when we book our cruises. When we choose to book, aren't we agreeing to what is expected of us?

 

 

Apparently not...and then come up with every excuse in the book to justify not paying it. Sure hope karma comes and bites a few people.

 

Getting sorta off the subject, I just came back from having a pedicure. The nail tech does an awesome job and she is the sweetest person. She finished me and moved to the next customer. This customer said she likes to bake. She told the nail tech she'll bring her a couple of cinnamon twists next time instead of a tip. I couldn't believe my ears. I wonder if she'd like a meal instead of a paycheque:rolleyes:.

[jtl513]

No U.S. residency; no U.S. Income tax consequence.

I think states can collect taxes on money earned in their state even if there is no residency, so maybe a case could be made for wages earned while in some US ports.

 

Many years ago when we lived in a suburb of St Louis the city tried to impose a city earnings tax on visiting professional sports teams, but that idea went sour when the visitors refused to come, and the home teams threatened to move outside city limits!

 

I worked at a government facility which sat on the city limits and had buildings on both sides of the line. Everyone wanted their offices in buildings outside the line in order to avoid the city earnings tax. :p

[Jo-Bob]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us. Have people forgotten what tipping is for? To me it has always represented appreciation for service received over and above what is normally expected. The cruise line has made this charge mandatory so that they can pass their obligation to pay their employees what they feel is reasonable. I will not be bullying into paying something that the cruise line should buck up. And please please do not sympathize with the cruise line....it is a billion dollar profitable industry - just look up the stats. They would have us all believe that they are operating on a shoe string.

If a staff member provides exceptional service I will tip otherwise I am paying up front what the cruise is worth. The other note I would like to make here is that I have been cruising for 14 years and in the beginning (when tipping was voluntary) you would always get the sob stories from the staff about how far away from home they are, how they miss their families, how little they have and on and on and on. Funny how all these sad faces and stories disappeared when you watched the same staff getting off the ship in various ports with big smiling faces carrying their expensive cell phones, computers, wearing their designer watches, hats and clothing (often much better dressed than we were). Did we feel duped? You Bet! Remember they are living on the ship. They are getting their room and board. They are making multiple times the income they would be making if they were at home. They end their contracts and return home with more money than most of their fellow countrymen will see in their lifetime. That is why so many of them come to work for the cruise lines! It is not them that I feel sorry for. It is the uninformed, uneducated passengers who get suckered in.

 

Pathetic.

[sapper1]

no'love boats' anymore; just charity cruises. well, i contribute to charities for the poor here at home through my church. these staff and crew do not constitute 'charities.' if they do their work, no tip. if they go beyond, then tip left on. really excellent, friendly, etc, then extra tips. so i'm not buying anyone's attempt at a guilt trip. and if 'they' push me to it on the last night of the cruise to have to justify removing the 'voluntary' 'auto-tip', i'll be ready with lots of reasons. and if they refuse or put up a fight, well, say hi to my lawyer. and as far as making public any list of those who remove the tips, well, defamation comes easily to mind. i pay for my cruise and abide by the mandatory 'rules.' i am not an inmate.

 

Somehow I am not at all surprised by your post.

[jtl513]

deleted

[sail7seas]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us. Have people forgotten what tipping is for? To me it has always represented appreciation for service received over and above what is normally expected. The cruise line has made this charge mandatory so that they can pass their obligation to pay their employees what they feel is reasonable. I will not be bullying into paying something that the cruise line should buck up. And please please do not sympathize with the cruise line....it is a billion dollar profitable industry - just look up the stats. They would have us all believe that they are operating on a shoe string.

If a staff member provides exceptional service I will tip otherwise I am paying up front what the cruise is worth. The other note I would like to make here is that I have been cruising for 14 years and in the beginning (when tipping was voluntary) you would always get the sob stories from the staff about how far away from home they are, how they miss their families, how little they have and on and on and on. Funny how all these sad faces and stories disappeared when you watched the same staff getting off the ship in various ports with big smiling faces carrying their expensive cell phones, computers, wearing their designer watches, hats and clothing (often much better dressed than we were). Did we feel duped? You Bet! Remember they are living on the ship. They are getting their room and board. They are making multiple times the income they would be making if they were at home. They end their contracts and return home with more money than most of their fellow countrymen will see in their lifetime. That is why so many of them come to work for the cruise lines! It is not them that I feel sorry for. It is the uninformed, uneducated passengers who get suckered in.

 

 

 

Do you mind my asking what you told the Front Office was your reason for removing HSC from your on board account?

 

I will certainly understand if you don't care to respond.

 

[swedish weave]

Keep in mind that ANYONE CAN POST ANYYHING WHETHER IT IS TRUTHFUL OR JUST TO AGITATE!!!!!

 

I would advise you to not let yourself be sucked into these silly arguments because they may be posted for just that purpose.

[kazu]

Hi Kazu

I think on reflection that you make a valid point.

I wasn't actually coming down on one side or the other just trying to explain the difference in mindset that we have.

As I say reading all the posts and thinking about "when in Rome", if I cruise on the American lines in the future then I will take your council.

Happy cruising.......

 

Happy cruising back to you - enjoy them all - fair winds and following seas:D:D

 

When I make a valid point it's a very scary moment in time:rolleyes::D:p;)

[Wakepatrol]

Apparently not...and then come up with every excuse in the book to justify not paying it. Sure hope karma comes and bites a few people.

 

Getting sorta off the subject, I just came back from having a pedicure. The nail tech does an awesome job and she is the sweetest person. She finished me and moved to the next customer. This customer said she likes to bake. She told the nail tech she'll bring her a couple of cinnamon twists next time instead of a tip. I couldn't believe my ears. I wonder if she'd like a meal instead of a paycheque:rolleyes:.

 

Let's hope she uses cannabis as an ingredient:)

[Skorpora]

I think the HSC is very reasonable, and that the crew members definitely should be tipped above and beyond the HSC.

 

Example: If you were to take a land vacation, you should be tipping for 3 (or more) meals at 15 - 20%, your housekeeping person, if you are staying in a hotel, the concierge if using their services, your bartender, your room service delivery, parking valet, and so on.

 

When you add all that up, the cost would be much higher than the ship's HSC IMO. A 7 day cruise for 2 in a non-suite cabin would be $11.50X2X7=$161.00 - that's not a lot of money.

[Wakepatrol]

I think the HSC is very reasonable, and that the crew members definitely should be tipped above and beyond the HSC.

 

Example: If you were to take a land vacation, you should be tipping for 3 (or more) meals at 15 - 20%, your housekeeping person, if you are staying in a hotel, the concierge if using their services, your bartender, your room service delivery, parking valet, and so on.

 

When you add all that up, the cost would be much higher than the ship's HSC IMO. A 7 day cruise for 2 in a non-suite cabin would be $11.50X2X7=$161.00 - that's not a lot of money.

 

Good point... But the cheapskates don't tip on land either. They don't all of a sudden arrive on the ship and become cheap in the salt air.

 

They are just genuinely cheap by land air or sea

[serendipity1499]

Sorry, IF that was true it would have to be TEP, because you are not insuring anything.

 

Only reported what was in the newspaper today & quoted from "The "History of tipping from sixteenth century England to the United States in 1910" Ofer H. Azar, Dept. of Economics, Northwestern University..

[jimmy2x]

Just returned from a two week alaska on Statendam. Absolutely and completely removed the daily hotel charge that the ship posted to our account for each of us. Have people forgotten what tipping is for? To me it has always represented appreciation for service received over and above what is normally expected. The cruise line has made this charge mandatory so that they can pass their obligation to pay their employees what they feel is reasonable. I will not be bullying into paying something that the cruise line should buck up. And please please do not sympathize with the cruise line....it is a billion dollar profitable industry - just look up the stats. They would have us all believe that they are operating on a shoe string.

If a staff member provides exceptional service I will tip otherwise I am paying up front what the cruise is worth. The other note I would like to make here is that I have been cruising for 14 years and in the beginning (when tipping was voluntary) you would always get the sob stories from the staff about how far away from home they are, how they miss their families, how little they have and on and on and on. Funny how all these sad faces and stories disappeared when you watched the same staff getting off the ship in various ports with big smiling faces carrying their expensive cell phones, computers, wearing their designer watches, hats and clothing (often much better dressed than we were). Did we feel duped? You Bet! Remember they are living on the ship. They are getting their room and board. They are making multiple times the income they would be making if they were at home. They end their contracts and return home with more money than most of their fellow countrymen will see in their lifetime. That is why so many of them come to work for the cruise lines! It is not them that I feel sorry for. It is the uninformed, uneducated passengers who get suckered in.

 

Living under a bridge is a miserable way to go through life.