HONESTY poll (YES, about tipping!)

[Karysa]

Autotips should only be allowed to be taken off prior to 48 hours before debarkation. In the last daily cruise newspaper there should be a list of which cabins removed their autotips. I think that this would deter most of these cheap buggers and if not, I am quite sure that they would not stiff the crew on their next cruise.;)

[Out to sea!]

Autotips should only be allowed to be taken off prior to 48 hours before debarkation. In the last daily cruise newspaper there should be a list of which cabins removed their autotips. I think that this would deter most of these cheap buggers and if not, I am quite sure that they would not stiff the crew on their next cruise.;)

 

This day and age, very few people have humility so I think some people would brag they made the Funship Times. :(

 

At the school I work in, kids high 5 each other when we tell them how much debt they have. :mad:

[Out to sea!]

But if every passenger adopted the current policies, it would all just even out and then the workers would stop getting screwed over just so some people could save a few bucks by cheating them out of their tips.

 

True, if people did what was right instead of breaking rules, stiffing hard workers, hogging chairs, etc..... we'd have cruise Utopia! But alas, in the real world, we have cheapskates, smugglers, and CHOGS. :(

[Aplmac]

Autotips should only be allowed to be taken off prior to 48 hours before debarkation.

In the last daily cruise newspaper there should be a list of which cabins removed their autotips.

I think that this would deter most of these cheap buggers and if not,

I am quite sure that they would not stiff the crew on their next cruise.;)

Excellent idea!

Not only cabin numbers but surnames too!

 

 

.

[DirtyDawg]

Excellent idea!

Not only cabin numbers but surnames too!

 

 

.

 

Why don't we just flog them, then make them walk the plank.:rolleyes:

 

As long as the cruise lines insist that this is a tip, and therefore voluntary, or suggested some people will tip less or not tip at all whether any of us like it or not. As I said before, if this non-tipping ever became a real issue for the cruise lines or their employees, the system would change. Of course these non issues get beaten to death here on the good old ship CC, but let's now move on, shall we, to some real cruise problems, like those awful scrambled eggs in the breakfast buffet.:D

[AZbeachboy]

Are there SERIOUSLY 3 people that don't tip at ALL? How CHEAP can you possibly be? All of these people on the cruise ship, work their tails off for you, and their pay is minimal, and you give them NOTHING??????? If you give them nothing for tips, clearly you cannot afford to cruise. Unreal!:mad::mad:

 

Some faulty reasoning here. First of all, I tip. However people who do not, are not necessarily unable to pay the tip, but find it offensive.

 

Why don't more people blame the employer for low wadges. They are the one that set the standard.

 

When they included the head waiter and Maitre' d, into the equation many stopped leaving auto tips.

 

Many who argue for auto tips want to keep it that way so they continue to have low fares. This brings up the point that this is not a scientific poll and the numbers might be very corrupted and skewed.

 

It could be that only people who auto tip are mostly involved and others were not going to get involved in another fight over tips. If you look at the number of posters it seems most who don't auto tip are not involved in the discussion.

 

I also imagine that some who argue against tipping, do tip because it is expected, but think of it as a archaic way of employers to get around paying wages.

 

You should find an agreement that shows what their minimum amount owed by the cruise line is before talking about not getting payed.

 

Most Maitre' D's make 60-70,000 dollars per year. Why should we tip them for doing their job.

[KirkNC]

Wow, 1.74 don't tip a all :eek:, I feel sorry for their cabin steward and waiters.

[boogs]

Why don't more people blame the employer for low wadges. They are the one that set the standard.

 

So, your solution is to increase their wages so tips are not necessary? Then fares would have to be increased to be able to pay those increased wages. In the end, we would not save any money as we would still pay the wages, just as we do for every company we purchase products and services from. The employee's wages come from our payments to make purchases from that company. It certainly doesn't come from a magic tree growing in the backyard.

 

At least with the current policies, the cheapskates in the world have the ability to stiff the employees and fell all sanctimonious about how right they are for doing so. Do you really want to deny them such an important part of their miserly lives. :D

[LMaxwell]

So, your solution is to increase their wages so tips are not necessary? Then fares would have to be increased to be able to pay those increased wages.

 

That's true. And that is why ships are NOT flagged in the U.S.; they would be required to pay at least minimum wage to its workers and be subject to US labor laws. The ships operate as their own foreign based company and CCL in the U.S. is basically just a hotel management and logistics company.

 

All of the cruise lines do this, if they were U.S. flagged you could kiss goodbye to your $159 three day getaways.

 

I don't begrudge back of the house workers being tipped for their hard and unseen work. I leave auto tips in place. But there is nothing wrong with someone removing their tips and tipping the staff they deal with directly with cash. Those tips are pooled and the appropriate parties all receive their cut.

 

Until such time that cruise lines call the gratuities what they really are, which is a daily resort fee, this will continue to happen. A daily resort fee would have to be disclosed as part of the cruise fare, and again, you would not see low fares being advertised. The flip side to being able to advertise such low fares is the cruise line has to leave in place mechanisms where a guest can elect not to pay the gratuities because they are suggested and not mandatory.

 

If marketing thought people were smart enough to compare like to like, they'd raise the fares, make tips into resort fees and advertise higher rates and advertise something like "No tips necessary on our ships!" But people would just see the resort fee and throw a fit and not want to pay it.

 

I absolutely blame the cruise lines for these games and shenanigans. In many foreign cultures tipping is not expected, nor is it normal. So someone may remove auto tips because it is not customary to them never thinking they are stiffing anyone or being "cheap". Do they deserve to have their name printed for shaming? Absolutely not.

[swsfrail]

Wow, 1.74 don't tip a all :eek:, I feel sorry for their cabin steward and waiters.

 

And their family and friends. These no-tippers must be pretty selfish with their money.

[LMaxwell]

And their family and friends. These no-tippers must be pretty selfish with their money.

 

If you tip someone 0% or 50%, it really is not my business and does not affect my vacation. Maybe we should all feel sorry for the people that analyze the rate at which others tip?

[swsfrail]

I absolutely blame the cruise lines for these games and shenanigans. In many foreign cultures tipping is not expected, nor is it normal. So someone may remove auto tips because it is not customary to them never thinking they are stiffing anyone or being "cheap". Do they deserve to have their name printed for shaming? Absolutely not.

 

Right! Always blame the big bad corporations. Never blame the cheaters, cheapskates, or other self serving types for their bad behavior, manners, and attitudes. :rolleyes:

 

And that tired "it's not their custom" argument needs to be shot and buried. They are NOT in the place where their customs are. I find it extremely arrogant of any traveler to not take even the tiniest of effort to learn what the customs of the places they will be visiting - and by spending time on a cruise ship, they are indeed visiting a place - and follow them. To think that wherever they go the should be able to behave just like they do at home defeats the whole purpose of travelling to visit new places and cultures.

 

Wherever a person is, they should be aware of the local customs and graciously follow them. Be a polite visitor. Otherwise, they would be better off staying at home practicing the customs they are so insistent of following.

[boogs]

If you tip someone 0% or 50%, it really is not my business and does not affect my vacation. Maybe we should all feel sorry for the people that analyze the rate at which others tip?

 

I feel sorry for the hard working staff that get's cheated out of their income by these cheapskates. I never remove the autotips, and generally give even more because I almost always get better service than is needed. Sorry that you feel that my caring about the staff is meddling into other people's business. I guess I take being a decent human being too seriously. :rolleyes:

[LMaxwell]

I feel sorry for the hard working staff that get's cheated out of their income by these cheapskates. I never remove the autotips, and generally give even more because I almost always get better service than is needed. Sorry that you feel that my caring about the staff is meddling into other people's business. I guess I take being a decent human being too seriously. :rolleyes:

I feel sorry for them too in that case. But I don't waste my time looking for the cheapskates on board and trying to shame them. What a waste of ones life. Good for you for tipping more if you feel it is earned by the staff. But don't waste your breaths trying to shame people who think differently than you.

[AZbeachboy]

So, your solution is to increase their wages so tips are not necessary? Then fares would have to be increased to be able to pay those increased wages. In the end, we would not save any money as we would still pay the wages, just as we do for every company we purchase products and services from. The employee's wages come from our payments to make purchases from that company. It certainly doesn't come from a magic tree growing in the backyard.

 

At least with the current policies, the cheapskates in the world have the ability to stiff the employees and fell all sanctimonious about how right they are for doing so. Do you really want to deny them such an important part of their miserly lives. :D

 

You make my point. Instead of having a discussion about the cruise lines responsibility, you head straight for cheapskates and blame them for all the problems. I just asked about making the cruise lines accountable.

 

And why is increased fares so abhorrent if you pay the same thing? The cruise line would then have to stop lying about what the total cruise fare is.

I see nothing wrong with higher fares that include paying workers. It is time to stop the hedge of the cruise lines.

 

I sailed with HA when tipping was included in the fare you pay. I still tipped a bit more for good cabin service. I did not tip extra when we received bad service in the DR. I did have to pay more on HA than other lines, but not having the worry or hassle was worth it.

[LMaxwell]

Right! Always blame the big bad corporations. Never blame the cheaters, cheapskates, or other self serving types for their bad behavior, manners, and attitudes. :rolleyes:

 

 

Okay, well, tell CCL, NCL, Royal, Celebrity, Cunard, HAL, Princess, etc. to flag their ships in the United States and be subject to US labor laws. They won't, because it's a lot cheaper to pick some pinhole island in the middle of nowhere that has lax labor laws.

 

obviously I'm not opposed to the foreign flagging of ships, I pay the low fares and go on vacation, and I tip the recommended amount (and on occasion, when it is warranted, MORE). But the FACT of the matter is that corporations circumvent US labor laws in order to pay their staff disgustingly low wages. If they didn't do this, we would all pay much more for our cruises.

 

And I also stated that if they changed gratuities into mandatory resort charges (because, let's face it, that is what they REALLY are) then no one would have to worry about someone "removing tips". We'd all just pay increased mandatory fares. I'd be fine with that. Sounds like you would too. Maybe you wouldn't take pot shots at me if you understood exactly what I had said.

 

As far as customs of other regions goes; what if a European not accustomed to tipping got onto a Carnival ship that did a European itinerary where tipping is not customary? Carnival can "suggest" all they want; would the guest still be wrong for removing it when the ship is nowhere near the US?

 

There's always going to be cheapskates and those that try to get away with freebies. All you can do is live your life the way you see fit, in a way that you find above reproach, and be secure in the knowledge that you are doing what you feel is right and good for others. Don't waste your energy on the cheapskates, you will have a stroke. But the fact remains at the end of the day that "suggested tips" should be "mandatory resort fees" if the cruiseline really cared about their staff being paid properly, because the cruiseline does not want to be responsible for it coming out of their wallet.

[AZbeachboy]

I feel sorry for the hard working staff that get's cheated out of their income by these cheapskates. I never remove the autotips, and generally give even more because I almost always get better service than is needed. Sorry that you feel that my caring about the staff is meddling into other people's business. I guess I take being a decent human being too seriously. :rolleyes:

 

What business of is it of yours what other people do. Your idea of being a decent human being is different from others. If more people were concerned about their own actions, rather than the actions of other, we would come closer to that utopia that others have mentioned in this thread.

 

People grow up in different environments and different circumstances. They have different feelings about the things that go around in this world because of that. They may very well be giving time and talent to volunteer for others. You do not know that. But yet because they do not believe in tipping you make yourself out to be better and more caring than them? Better think twice and twice more about that statement.

[boogs]

And why is increased fares so abhorrent if you pay the same thing? The cruise line would then have to stop lying about what the total cruise fare is.

I see nothing wrong with higher fares that include paying workers. It is time to stop the hedge of the cruise lines.

 

Not abhorrent, but it could end up being even more costly in the long run. I see the tips as just another item I pay extra for on the cruise. Using your reasoning, then all extra cost items or activities should be included in the fare - alcohol, premium coffees, spa treatments, ship excursions, specialty restaurants, etc. All of these additional costs would be included in the "lies" you claim the cruise line is telling us since they aren't included in the fare. We would then end up with an all inclusive, luxury level pricing cruise fare that most of us couldn't afford.

 

I will bet that you are chomping on the bits to challenge my inclusion of adding those additional fees as part of the fare. You might be thinking: they let us know that these extra fare items cost extra, so they don't count. Well, they also let us know that auto tips will be added to our on board account, just as they let us know that any purchases on board will be added, so there isn't any lying going on there. The cruise lines don't hide the auto tip details. If a person is too foolish to learn what is included and what is not before they book, how can the cruise line be blamed for their lack of research?

 

Besides, if the tips were included in the fare, the cost of the cruise could be even higher. Any taxes and fees that may be associated with the total fare would now be higher as well - costing us more money. If a person decided to insure their trip, which many people choose to do, the total fare to be insured will now be higher, potentially coasting them higher premiums for the coverage - costing us more money.

 

The way I see it, there is no lying going on by the cruise lines about tips. And adding it to the fare could end us costing us more than just the cost of the tips due to increased fees, taxes and premiums.

 

The only improvement the cruise lines can make is to make the auto tips mandatory without the option of removing them. Then all would be equal for everyone.

[AZbeachboy]

Not abhorrent, but it could end up being even more costly in the long run. I see the tips as just another item I pay extra for on the cruise. Using your reasoning, then all extra cost items or activities should be included in the fare - alcohol, premium coffees, spa treatments, ship excursions, specialty restaurants, etc. All of these additional costs would be included in the "lies" you claim the cruise line is telling us since they aren't included in the fare. We would then end up with an all inclusive, luxury level pricing cruise fare that most of us couldn't afford.

 

I will bet that you are chomping on the bits to challenge my inclusion of adding those additional fees as part of the fare. You might be thinking: they let us know that these extra fare items cost extra, so they don't count. Well, they also let us know that auto tips will be added to our on board account, just as they let us know that any purchases on board will be added, so there isn't any lying going on there. The cruise lines don't hide the auto tip details. If a person is too foolish to learn what is included and what is not before they book, how can the cruise line be blamed for their lack of research?

 

Besides, if the tips were included in the fare, the cost of the cruise could be even higher. Any taxes and fees that may be associated with the total fare would now be higher as well - costing us more money. If a person decided to insure their trip, which many people choose to do, the total fare to be insured will now be higher, potentially coasting them higher premiums for the coverage - costing us more money.

 

The way I see it, there is no lying going on by the cruise lines about tips. And adding it to the fare could end us costing us more than just the cost of the tips due to increased fees, taxes and premiums.

 

The only improvement the cruise lines can make is to make the auto tips mandatory without the option of removing them. Then all would be equal for everyone.

 

Paying tips wither auto tips or by cash is not the same. People are expected to pay the service charge (I do not use gratuity because it is not voluntary nor is the service necessarily appreciated), but they are not expected to drink alcohol or buy excursions in the same way.

 

What is the difference in making a service charge mandatory and raising prices of the cruise, none. So why not have the cruise line advertise the true price of the cost of the cruise. That is why I mentioned Holland American and what they use do do.

[John Bull]

Not abhorrent, but it could end up being even more costly in the long run. I see the tips as just another item I pay extra for on the cruise. Using your reasoning, then all extra cost items or activities should be included in the fare - alcohol, premium coffees, spa treatments, ship excursions, specialty restaurants, etc. All of these additional costs would be included in the "lies" you claim the cruise line is telling us since they aren't included in the fare. We would then end up with an all inclusive, luxury level pricing cruise fare that most of us couldn't afford.

Sorry, boogs, but your own reasoning here is very flawed.

Alcohol, excursions, speciality dining & such are optional. I've never seen anyone flamed for choosing not to use them.

But those who complain about tipping are subjected to abuse on every tipping thread. Although it's not mandatory, it's certainly seen by the vast majority - including me - as a "must do".

 

The cruise lines don't hide the auto tip details. If a person is too foolish to learn what is included and what is not before they book, how can the cruise line be blamed for their lack of research?

I totally agree with you that cruise lines are very good at telling folk what's included.

Shame they're so darned poor at telling what's not included :rolleyes:

 

Seems you didn't bother to read my first post on this thread, so here's the relevant bit all over again:

"Cruise lines & T/As are coy about tipping expectations - please don't tell me that it's clear on cruise line websites, cos on most it certainly isn't.

I gave up looking for it on Celebrity's website, even though there was a page specifically for "New to Cruising". In the end I had to type it into the search box. It was under "manage my booking" .

On Cunard I also had to resort to the ten pages of FAQ. Apparently it's under "Life On Board" though I couldn't find that section from the home page menu.

Carnival's website has a "Beginners' Guide". But again, I had to dig into the FAQ.

On HAL, from the home page click "on board our ships", click "new to cruising", click "FAQ", click "shipboard life", click "money matters", click "is there a hotel charge?".

It's simpler on RCI. From the home page, click "why cruise", click "before your cruise", click "top 20 FAQ."

Can be difficult to find anything about tips if you're looking for it, practically impossible if you don't even know it exists.:rolleyes: "

 

Can you really put your hand on your heart & say the cruise lines don't hide the auto-tips?

 

(bear in mind this comment in support of unwitting non-US newbies, who are being mugged into paying an unexpected significant extra cost)

 

Besides, if the tips were included in the fare, the fare would now be higher. Any taxes and fees that may be associated with the total fare would now be higher as well - costing us more money. If a person decided to insure their trip, which many people choose to do, the total fare to be insured will now be higher, potentially coasting them higher premiums for the coverage - costing us more money.

No, no, & probably no.

What difference is it going to make to taxes?

The only fee I'm aware of would be the T/As commission, easily resolved by adjusting the percentage to suit. For example 9% of $1100 instead of 10% of $1000.

I'm not acquainted with US insurance policies, my own provides cover of pre-set maximums in each category, I don't ask for different amounts based on what I actually paid for my cruise, my clothes etc. Is it not the same in the US? And my premium has just doubled, because I've gone from one age category to another that's because most of the money going out as claims relate to medical costs, not re-imbursements for cruise tickets. Again, is not this also the case in the US?

 

If the tips (wages) were included in the ticket price, or even if they were mandatory (which obliges cruise lines to clearly advise prospective cruisers of the auto-tip), there would be no opportunity to cheapskate. So more folk contributing into the pot either reduces the individual contributions or makes the pot bigger.

 

The only improvement the cruise lines can make is to make the auto tips mandatory without the option of removing them. Then all would be equal for everyone.

A mandatory add-on makes life complicated, though I do understand that add-ons are a way-of-life in the US. On the other hand, increasing the ticket-price means a bigger loss for the uninsured cruiser who has to cancel. I guess there's other pros & cons between the two, and I'd be happy if the cruise lines did either.

 

But I'll not hold my breath, it'd be a brave US or Italian CEO who unilaterally chose to do either - they all aim to keep base advertised costs as competitive as possible & make their money on the extras.

 

 

The questions I've asked aren't rhetorical. I'd really appreciate answers.

 

A remarkably civilised thread, considering the subject. Great if we can keep it that way. :cool:

 

JB :)

[AZbeachboy]

The questions I've asked aren't rhetorical. I'd really appreciate answers.

 

A remarkably civilised thread, considering the subject. Great if we can keep it that way. :cool:

 

JB :)

 

Nice Answer.

[Out to sea!]

I feel sorry for them too in that case. But I don't waste my time looking for the cheapskates on board and trying to shame them. What a waste of ones life. Good for you for tipping more if you feel it is earned by the staff. But don't waste your breaths trying to shame people who think differently than you.

 

If it's enjoyable, it's not a waste! :D

[Out to sea!]

Okay, well, tell CCL, NCL, Royal, Celebrity, Cunard, HAL, Princess, etc. to flag their ships in the United States and be subject to US labor laws. They won't, because it's a lot cheaper to pick some pinhole island in the middle of nowhere that has lax labor laws.

 

obviously I'm not opposed to the foreign flagging of ships, I pay the low fares and go on vacation, and I tip the recommended amount (and on occasion, when it is warranted, MORE). But the FACT of the matter is that corporations circumvent US labor laws in order to pay their staff disgustingly low wages. If they didn't do this, we would all pay much more for our cruises.

 

And I also stated that if they changed gratuities into mandatory resort charges (because, let's face it, that is what they REALLY are) then no one would have to worry about someone "removing tips". We'd all just pay increased mandatory fares. I'd be fine with that. Sounds like you would too. Maybe you wouldn't take pot shots at me if you understood exactly what I had said.

 

As far as customs of other regions goes; what if a European not accustomed to tipping got onto a Carnival ship that did a European itinerary where tipping is not customary? Carnival can "suggest" all they want; would the guest still be wrong for removing it when the ship is nowhere near the US?

 

There's always going to be cheapskates and those that try to get away with freebies. All you can do is live your life the way you see fit, in a way that you find above reproach, and be secure in the knowledge that you are doing what you feel is right and good for others. Don't waste your energy on the cheapskates, you will have a stroke. But the fact remains at the end of the day that "suggested tips" should be "mandatory resort fees" if the cruiseline really cared about their staff being paid properly, because the cruiseline does not want to be responsible for it coming out of their wallet.

 

Why shouldn't they? How many Americans work on the ships (hardly none)? Why should Turks, Filipinos, Hungarians, etc be subject to or benefit from US labor law?

 

Many other countries tip as well as Americans. It is not just an American custom. But it is immaterial as in this case, it is a Carnival custom. And if a cruiser does due diligence and read what they are actually purchasing on the Carnival website, they know what is expected of them, including the tips.

 

Based on your logic, when in Germany, I should drive in the left lane of the autobahn 10 mph below the speed limit since that is customary here in the US. :rolleyes:

[Out to sea!]

What business of is it of yours what other people do. Your idea of being a decent human being is different from others. If more people were concerned about their own actions, rather than the actions of other, we would come closer to that utopia that others have mentioned in this thread.

 

People grow up in different environments and different circumstances. They have different feelings about the things that go around in this world because of that. They may very well be giving time and talent to volunteer for others. You do not know that. But yet because they do not believe in tipping you make yourself out to be better and more caring than them? Better think twice and twice more about that statement.

 

Based on this line of thought, if someone is robbing you or beating your butt, we should just look the other way and carry on, correct? Because, what business is it of mine what someone else does to your or your family, right? Is this the ethic you expect people to have......."make sure I'm good and to hell with everyone else."?

[helpthejuggler]

 

Based on your logic, when in Germany, I should drive in the left lane of the autobahn 10 mph below the speed limit since that is customary here in the US. :rolleyes:

 

The major difference is that driving like c this would be illegal.... against policy.

 

Removing auto tips is permitted by the cruise company policy. To alter the policy is within the capability of the company of they thought it would serve their staffs interests better.