Man Overboard? - Grand Princess

[elliair]

This sounds a bit topsy turvy. If this is mental illness and they are unable to think clearly, or they genuinely believe that they are doing everyone a favor, or, for that matter, they are driven by forces completely outside their control, all of which can and does happen, it is beyond judgmental to call them self absorbed.

 

You didn't know the person who killed himself. No one had a clue, there was no clues that he would do such a thing. No one sensed mental illness, he was a husband, a football coach, a father, an uncle, a coworker and had many friends. No one knows what force he was driven with because no one suspected. What's done is done and life goes on, but it still hurts those that are left asking the only question Why? The same as the person who accompanied the passenger. Why?

Edited November 16, 2013 by elliair

[Love.II.Cruise]

Hi All

 

Never been on ship when this has happened, but feel for the crew and passengers on board, it must change the on board feeling, and what about the stress on the crew trying to find the person.

 

yours Shogun

 

You are right Shogun. We were on a B2B cruise where a young man went overboard around 3am in the morning (on our first cruise). He wasn't declared missing until around 9/10am, so at that point the ship didn't turn around but authorities were notified. The whole ship seemed quite, crew and passengers, after the accident (later suspected as suicide). The crew didn't have to search, but they gave the impression they wish they would have discovered it sooner to try and find the person.

 

On the next cruise, it was a complete different vibe and was like what I would describe as a normal cruise. It could have been just the different demographics on board, but I do think the missing person on the first cruise had some factor.

[greenie082756]

Ever since I first read of this incident I have been in deep thought over it. I have, as I'm sure most have, had bad times in my younger years when my head was so wrapped up I couldn't see through it all.

After reading about this and with what others have said, I can say that my thoughts were for the person who jumped, the emotions the family and friends that are left to deal with a new turn of events (loss of a love one) and the crew and passengers aboard the ship. It is indeed a very sad day when one feels there is no other choice but to stop their existence.

My sympathies to the family.

[kaykay51]

We had a man jump overboard on our Hawaii cruise last year. He was witnessed to jump off the lido deck at approximately 1:00pm. The ship turned around and the captain asked all passengers to go on deck and help spot the passenger. He was spotted about an hour after jumping and successfully rescued! There were many rumors floating around thd ship. There were many cheers as the rescue boat arrived back to the ship.

My heart goes out to the passenger from the Grand and her family.

[Tee706]

Is there a better example of self-absorption than those who would deem to know what awareness the mentally ill might have of their actions and its consequences?

 

Unless you've been the one that LOVED and NEEDED the person that committed suicide, and you're left with a life full of guilt about what you might have said or done to prevent it, don't judge my feelings.

[TracieABD]

The whole situation is so tragically sad, on so many levels.

 

Now that they have determined the woman can not be found, it is probably time we turn our attention to the survivors.

I wish for them the ability to find peace in the face of the unknown.

I wish for the crew of the Grand the ability to find "normal" as quickly as possible.

I wish for the passengers the ability to find a little extra joy in each day of their vacation.

And I wish for us the ability to view the suffering and weak with compassion and kindness.

[jrzebird]

Unless you've been the one that LOVED and NEEDED the person that committed suicide, and you're left with a life full of guilt about what you might have said or done to prevent it, don't judge my feelings.

 

Very well said, Tee. I've been reading this thread and have wanted to scream several times. My life has never been the same since my nephew's suicide a few years ago. He was loved, cherished and often told this. He was smart and funny, but he waged a war inside of himself that none of us could help or change. I tell myself there was nothing we could have done, and there really wasn't, but it's sometimes hard to believe.

 

My prayers and love to those who remain. We are survivors, you know.

 

Maureen

 

PS, I have a friend who is on this sailing.

[jrzebird]

The following eulogy helped me enormously when my nephew died. Perhaps it will help others to understand, or at least accept, that this is not a selfish act. We can never understand what goes on in someone's mind who commits suicide.

 

"Our friend died on his own battlefield. He was killed in action fighting a civil war. He fought against adversaries that were as real to him as his casket is real to us. They were powerful adversaries. They took toll of his energies and endurance. They exhausted the last vestiges of his courage and his strength. At last these adversaries overwhelmed him. And it appeared that he had lost the war. But did he? I see a host of victories that he has won! For one thing, he has won our admiration, because even if he lost the war, we give him credit for his bravery on the battlefield.

 

And we give him credit for the courage and pride and hope that he used as his weapons as long as he could. We shall remember not his death, but his daily victories gained through his kindness and thoughtfulness, through his love for family and friends, for animals and books and music, for all things beautiful, lovely and honorable.

 

We shall remember not his last day of defeat, but we shall remember the many days that he was victorious over overwhelming odds. We shall remember not the years we thought he had left, but the intensity with which he lived the years that he had.

 

Only God knows what this child of His suffered in the silent skirmishes that took place in his soul. But our consolation is that God does know, and understands"

 

 

the Reverend Weston Stevens, quoted by Norman Vincent Peale

[Love.II.Cruise]

The following eulogy helped me enormously when my nephew died. Perhaps it will help others to understand, or at least accept, that this is not a selfish act. We can never understand what goes on in someone's mind who commits suicide.

 

"Our friend died on his own battlefield. He was killed in action fighting a civil war. He fought against adversaries that were as real to him as his casket is real to us. They were powerful adversaries. They took toll of his energies and endurance. They exhausted the last vestiges of his courage and his strength. At last these adversaries overwhelmed him. And it appeared that he had lost the war. But did he? I see a host of victories that he has won! For one thing, he has won our admiration, because even if he lost the war, we give him credit for his bravery on the battlefield.

 

And we give him credit for the courage and pride and hope that he used as his weapons as long as he could. We shall remember not his death, but his daily victories gained through his kindness and thoughtfulness, through his love for family and friends, for animals and books and music, for all things beautiful, lovely and honorable.

 

We shall remember not his last day of defeat, but we shall remember the many days that he was victorious over overwhelming odds. We shall remember not the years we thought he had left, but the intensity with which he lived the years that he had.

 

Only God knows what this child of His suffered in the silent skirmishes that took place in his soul. But our consolation is that God does know, and understands"

 

 

the Reverend Weston Stevens, quoted by Norman Vincent Peale

 

That brought tears to my eyes… thank you for sharing.

[trbarton]

I read many times on this thread the question "WHY" something you never will have the answer to.

 

In 2011 I was involved in an attempted murder/suicide as my wife of almost 4 years wanted to die and take me with her. After being in jail and being released in August of this year, 2 weeks later she was found dead in her house by I assume her daughter. We still don't know the cause of her death, I assume it was suicide as she was able to hide things and appear that everything was OK and normal. The answer of "WHY" is something that I and her family will never know. So I have learned to move on and do the best that I can. You will see me cruising and with my upbeat attitude will never realize the pain that I have gone through even though we could never be together again I was still saddened by what happened.

 

Yes her family is still going through a lot and her daughter still cannot talk about what happened.

 

Yes I feel that my wife was in a lot of pain, pain that we will never understand or know the reason why. I wish that something could have been done to prevent this but that chance never happened.

 

In court my wife tearfully expressed her remorse as to what she had done to me and her family. The first court appearance of my wife in hand cuffs was extremely painfully for me and I was emotionally in shock by what I was seeing. There is nothing that can prepare you for something like this. The D/A office had never seen a case like this and had to determine what next?

 

I am blessed by my many friends and family that supported me then and still support me.

 

So if you ever see or meet me on a cruise, all HUGS are welcome.

 

Tom

Edited November 17, 2013 by trbarton

[secretcastle]

Tom,

 

I don't know you, but I have felt a connection as I have enjoyed your posts, especially as I will be on the Grand next spring.

I find your positive outlook very inspiring!

Hugs,

Julia

[MsSoCalCruiser]

I read many times on this thread the question "WHY" something you never will have the answer to.

 

In 2011 I was involved in an attempted murder/suicide as my wife of almost 4 years wanted to die and take me with her. After being in jail and being released in August of this year, 2 weeks later she was found dead in her house by I assume her daughter. We still don't know the cause of her death, I assume it was suicide as she was able to hide things and appear that everything was OK and normal. The answer of "WHY" is something that I and her family will never know. So I have learned to move on and do the best that I can. You will see me cruising and with my upbeat attitude will never realize the pain that I have gone through even though we could never be together again I was still saddened by what happened.

 

Yes her family is still going through a lot and her daughter still cannot talk about what happened.

 

Yes I feel that my wife was in a lot of pain, pain that we will never understand or know the reason why. I wish that something could have been done to prevent this but that chance never happened.

 

In court my wife tearfully expressed her remorse as to what she had done to me and her family. The first court appearance of my wife in hand cuffs was extremely painfully for me and I was emotionally in shock by what I was seeing. There is nothing that can prepare you for something like this. The D/A office had never seen a case like this and had to determine what next?

 

I am blessed by my many friends and family that supported me then and still support me.

 

So if you ever see or meet me on a cruise, all HUGS are welcome.

 

Tom

I'm sorry this happened to you. Hugs.

[bigenna]

Tom, my husband and I met you on the Golden at the meet and greet you arranged at Skywalker's. So sorry for all you have gone through recently, we never knew, or I would have given you a hug then.

Anne and Gib

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forums mobile app

Edited November 17, 2013 by bigenna

[BassettMom]

Unfortunately, this thread was referred to in Cruise Law News in an article discussing automatic man overboard systems (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/11/articles/disappearances-1/miami-herald-looks-at-cruise-ship-overboards/index.html):

 

"Cruise fan sites like Cruise Critic were quick to bash the woman as selfish and responsible for ruining everyone else's cruise."

 

 

(Not sure why, but the link doesn't work, but you can Goggle the article.)

Edited November 17, 2013 by BassettMom

[jrzebird]

Unfortunately, this thread was referred to in Cruise Law News in an article discussing automatic man overboard systems (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/11/articles/disappearances-1/miami-herald-looks-at-cruise-ship-overboards/index.html):

 

"Cruise fan sites like Cruise Critic were quick to bash the woman as selfish and responsible for ruining everyone else's cruise."

 

 

(Not sure why, but the link doesn't work, but you can Goggle the article.)

 

This is very unfortunate and reflects poorly on our mostly compassionate community. There were only a few who opined in that manner and it's sad that the media focused on them. Let this be a lesson that, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing.

[RickEk]

Unfortunately, this thread was referred to in Cruise Law News in an article discussing automatic man overboard systems (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/11/articles/disappearances-1/miami-herald-looks-at-cruise-ship-overboards/index.html):

 

"Cruise fan sites like Cruise Critic were quick to bash the woman as selfish and responsible for ruining everyone else's cruise."

 

 

(Not sure why, but the link doesn't work, but you can Goggle the article.)

 

Yes, they ignored the 98% of the posts that lamented the loss of this woman's life in such a needless act.

[trbarton]

Unfortunately, this thread was referred to in Cruise Law News in an article discussing automatic man overboard systems (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/11/articles/disappearances-1/miami-herald-looks-at-cruise-ship-overboards/index.html):

 

"Cruise fan sites like Cruise Critic were quick to bash the woman as selfish and responsible for ruining everyone else's cruise."

 

 

(Not sure why, but the link doesn't work, but you can Goggle the article.)

 

 

Try this link...http://www.cruiselawnews.com, lots of news about what cruise lines are not doing.

 

Tom:)

[Tee706]

Unfortunately, this thread was referred to in Cruise Law News in an article discussing automatic man overboard systems (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/11/articles/disappearances-1/miami-herald-looks-at-cruise-ship-overboards/index.html):

 

"Cruise fan sites like Cruise Critic were quick to bash the woman as selfish and responsible for ruining everyone else's cruise."

 

 

(Not sure why, but the link doesn't work, but you can Goggle the article.)

 

Well, you have to take this article with a grain of salt... it was written by an attorney whose only focus is to profit off of others pain and loss. The only way he can get to the money is to blame the one that has the money. Everyone who has cruised these massive ships know that it is impossible to fall overboard unless you are doing something that you should not be doing -- but that won't stop an attorney hellbent on blaming somebody else to get to the money.

 

And, yes, my earlier post mentioned selfishness and ruining the cruise for others. I couldn't care less what anyone's opinion of my post was, but will state that "ruining the cruise for others" had absolutely NOTHING to do with missing ports or being late to ports. Had I been on that ship, I would have been so devastated that I probably wouldn't have even left the ship when it did arrive in port, hence ruining the cruise.

[BassettMom]

This is very unfortunate and reflects poorly on our mostly compassionate community. There were only a few who opined in that manner and it's sad that the media focused on them. Let this be a lesson that, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing.

 

Yes, they ignored the 98% of the posts that lamented the loss of this woman's life in such a needless act.

 

I agree it's unfortunate folks (and this particular attorney) do focus on the negative. It does go to show that those of us who cruise aren't the only ones on these boards.

Edited November 17, 2013 by BassettMom

[Tee706]

Very well said, Tee. I've been reading this thread and have wanted to scream several times. My life has never been the same since my nephew's suicide a few years ago. He was loved, cherished and often told this. He was smart and funny, but he waged a war inside of himself that none of us could help or change. I tell myself there was nothing we could have done, and there really wasn't, but it's sometimes hard to believe.

 

My prayers and love to those who remain. We are survivors, you know.

 

Maureen

 

PS, I have a friend who is on this sailing.

 

So terribly sorry for your loss.

 

I should never comment in these situations... I guess it's obvious that it brings out a lot of anger in me.

[BassettMom]

Try this link...http://www.cruiselawnews.com, lots of news about what cruise lines are not doing.

 

Tom:)

 

 

Well, you have to take this article with a grain of salt... it was written by an attorney whose only focus is to profit off of others pain and loss. The only way he can get to the money is to blame the one that has the money. Everyone who has cruised these massive ships know that it is impossible to fall overboard unless you are doing something that you should not be doing -- but that won't stop an attorney hellbent on blaming somebody else to get to the money.

 

.....

 

 

 

I do read his articles, but also realize that he takes a negative viewpoint of the cruiselines, so his comments are biased. I don't necessarily agree with his comments, but do learn some things from his discussions.

[tlatrice]

Had I been on that ship, I would have been so devastated that I probably wouldn't have even left the ship when it did arrive in port, hence ruining the cruise.

 

:eek: Really? So devastated at the death of someone you don't know?

 

The decision to not leave the ship would be your choice. Thus, the ruined cruise would be on you.

[Tee706]

:eek: Really? So devastated at the death of someone you don't know?...

 

The decision to not leave the ship would be your choice. Thus, the ruined cruise would be on you.

 

Yes! Untimely death bothers me terribly. It doesn't matter if I knew them or not... there are people that loved them and they are suffering horribly. If you can't empathize, that's on YOU...

[redtogo]

My heart sank - just reading about the incident. We were on a Princess cruise at the time and reading this is the first I have heard of it. Not being depressed, not being extremely ill - I pause to wonder what influences a person to such despair. Brings to mind saying: "There, but for the Grace of God, go I".

[billie5]

Unless you've been the one that LOVED and NEEDED the person that committed suicide, and you're left with a life full of guilt about what you might have said or done to prevent it, don't judge my feelings.

 

I certainly feel very sad about what you have gone through, and continue to go through. I hope you find a way to achieve peace.

 

However, I believe you miss my point. We do not know what this lady's reasoning was, but if mental illness was involved, it is completely unfair (and usually false) to attribute it to self-absorption. For all we know, she might have been convinced that her suicide would save her loved ones, and not necessarily herself, great pain, and was therefore doing the exact opposite of a self-absorbed person. Remember, if one is dealing with the thinking of the mentally ill, gosh, just about anything might be possible. That is why judging the actions of those who might be mentally ill is so unfair.

 

I dealt with the mentally ill for 9 years (until this July) as my county's representative on the multi-county agency required to deal with this issue. Your implied conjecture is, in fact, correct. In my family I have been lucky in suicide not having been a problem. However, on the other side of the coin, it is something I have had to think deeply about over the past 10 months. Please don't call the police. I found that we currently live in an enlightened age where hospice and physician attitudes have changed to the point that end-of-life is not nearly so frightening as when doctors acted like they were afraid of turning you into a dope addict. (And, on the plus side, I have already nearly doubled my median life expectancy, and still no immediate end-of-life symptoms -- looks like I will be around to bug you all for a while longer)

Edited November 21, 2013 by billie5