Toronto to Rome: advice for comfort options

[QuattroRomeo]

We've only flown to Europe twice- once in 2004 on Alitalia to Milan/Genoa, where we found the economy seats to be completely devoid of any cushioning.. very uncomfortable. Then in 2012 we flew Air Transat to Barcelona..the seats were terribly cramped, no leg room and awful when the seat in front of you reclined.

I've been pouring over seat guru and other sites trying to find a better alternative to Rome this time. It appears that Lufthansa has a good following for coach, and British Airways for premium economy. Does this sound correct to those who have more TA experience?

We go in November. Lufthansa has a 2hr layover in Frankfurt while BA has a 1 hr in Heathrow. Or have I missed better options? Any opinions appreciated!

[RickT]

I've never had a complaint about Air Canada's seats, much better than Air Transat.

 

As far as Lufthansa I've flown some of their smaller planes in Europe and found them OK but no better than AC. Pay attention to any Lufthansa booking you are looking at however as they have many code share flights with Air Canada.

 

Unless I'm mistaken you should also be able to get direct flights from Toronto to Rome which would definitely be better than any layover in Frankfurt (just my 2 cents).

[Twickenham]

We've only flown to Europe twice- once in 2004 on Alitalia to Milan/Genoa, where we found the economy seats to be completely devoid of any cushioning.. very uncomfortable. Then in 2012 we flew Air Transat to Barcelona..the seats were terribly cramped, no leg room and awful when the seat in front of you reclined.

I've been pouring over seat guru and other sites trying to find a better alternative to Rome this time. It appears that Lufthansa has a good following for coach, and British Airways for premium economy. Does this sound correct to those who have more TA experience?

We go in November. Lufthansa has a 2hr layover in Frankfurt while BA has a 1 hr in Heathrow. Or have I missed better options? Any opinions appreciated!

 

Well, I would be surprised if you can't find a better connection on BA thru LHR... In 2012 we did YUL-LHR-FCO in BA Premium Economy - and vowed never to go across an ocean in anything less!

 

Air France also offers premium economy, and Air Canada is slowly introducing it at well - worth a look-see.

[QuattroRomeo]

I've never had a complaint about Air Canada's seats, much better than Air Transat.

 

As far as Lufthansa I've flown some of their smaller planes in Europe and found them OK but no better than AC. Pay attention to any Lufthansa booking you are looking at however as they have many code share flights with Air Canada.

 

Unless I'm mistaken you should also be able to get direct flights from Toronto to Rome which would definitely be better than any layover in Frankfurt (just my 2 cents).

 

Thanks! I have been on Air Canada's site and there are no direct flights from Toronto, plus the connections are all Lufthansa! Just checked Montreal, and it isn't direct either. Is it too early?

 

Well, I would be surprised if you can't find a better connection on BA thru LHR... In 2012 we did YUL-LHR-FCO in BA Premium Economy - and vowed never to go across an ocean in anything less!

 

Air France also offers premium economy, and Air Canada is slowly introducing it at well - worth a look-see.

 

I am glad to hear that the premium for BA is worth considering! What do you mean by a better connection? Is it not enough time between Heathrow and Rome? There are flights with longer layovers in Heathrow but they arrive hours later in Rome.

(I am searching Oct 29-Nov 14). Thank you.

[scottbee]

You should also consider Air Transat Club Class. Often a little less than other airlines premium economy.

[em-sk]

You should also consider Air Transat Club Class. Often a little less than other airlines premium economy.

 

I have never been in Club Class on Air Transat but the photos of the seats look like the old business class from years ago. Better than Premium Economy. Air Transat in economy is quite crowded.

 

You can try searching http://matrix.itasoftware.com select "Premium Economy".

 

I don't think Air Canada does Rome year round. In either case Lufthansa and Air Canada operate on a joint venture basis between Canada and Europe.

[LHT28]

We found KLM Economy Comfort seats to be very nice or first class if you can get it

They connect in AMS

I try to avoid connections at LHR

Edited February 10, 2014 by LHT28

[em-sk]

I have never been in Club Class on Air Transat but the photos of the seats look like the old business class from years ago. Better than Premium Economy. Air Transat in economy is quite crowded.

 

You can try searching http://matrix.itasoftware.com select "Premium Economy".

 

I don't think Air Canada does Rome year round. In either case Lufthansa and Air Canada operate on a joint venture basis between Canada and Europe.

 

One thing to point out is there is a difference between Premium Economy (European Airlines and Air Canada) and Economy Plus (Delta, United etc.). You should look closely at where it says who the operator of the flight is as there are lots of code shares.

 

What is offered as premium economy on the European carriers and Air Canada is an upgraded and wider seat usually with upgraded meals etc. What the US based airlines offer is simply the same economy seat with a bit more leg room.

[waterbug123]

We've only flown to Europe twice....we found the economy seats to be completely devoid of any cushioning.. very uncomfortable...the seats were terribly cramped, no leg room and awful when the seat in front of you reclined.

 

Nearly all airlines will be similar in terms of legroom and such on standard, economy flights. You're just not going to find a regular economy seat that allows you enough legroom (or recline) to sprawl out, unless you are able to select (likely for a fee) a preferred seat in the exit or bulkhead row.

 

However, as others have mentioned, many now offer a slightly enhanced economy experience for an additional fee. Delta calls theirs "economy comfort" and you get additional legroom, a little bit more seat recline, and earlier boarding. Other airlines have something similar seats with a similar name, like "economy plus." These seats are part of the economy cabin, albeit in front of it, but otherwise get the same cabin service as regular economy.

Beyond that, some have an entirely different class of service. For example, Air France and their "Premium Economy" cabin. It's not first class, but it's better than economy comfort, economy plus etc. as not only is the seating better but the cabin service is kicked up a notch as well.

[QuattroRomeo]

Thank you all very much, it has been quite a help to sift through all of the search sites I've been on!

Of the flights available for our dates, there is an Air France premium from Toronto with a 1hr 40 min layover at CDG. Will this be long enough? I've read so many reviews that say they detest CDG, but I don't know why!

[Twickenham]

Thank you all very much, it has been quite a help to sift through all of the search sites I've been on!

Of the flights available for our dates, there is an Air France premium from Toronto with a 1hr 40 min layover at CDG. Will this be long enough? I've read so many reviews that say they detest CDG, but I don't know why!

 

I would want more than that at CDG - and indeed, if I come back you your previous question about BA/LHR, I would want longer than an hour there... You'll have to go thru passport control upon arrival, and there can be a significant distance to travel to get to your onward flight, so 2 hours would be my minimum for either airports.

 

We had a 3-hour connection at LHR for our Rome trip, and I thought that was just about perfect - enough time to go thru all the official stuff, and have a proper fry-up (i.e., full English breakfast) before a little shopping and finding our way to our departure gate. No stress, and really, a T5 BA connection at LHR is very easy.

[Gardyloo]

I would want more than that at CDG - and indeed, if I come back you your previous question about BA/LHR, I would want longer than an hour there... You'll have to go thru passport control upon arrival, and there can be a significant distance to travel to get to your onward flight, so 2 hours would be my minimum for either airports.

 

We had a 3-hour connection at LHR for our Rome trip, and I thought that was just about perfect - enough time to go thru all the official stuff, and have a proper fry-up (i.e., full English breakfast) before a little shopping and finding our way to our departure gate. No stress, and really, a T5 BA connection at LHR is very easy.

There would be no passport control or customs at LHR; the UK is not within the Schengen zone. It would be an airside connection, with only a security check. This would NOT be the case at CDG, where the OP would have to go through passport control as France IS a Schengen country, like Italy.

 

(Note in either case bag claim and customs would be in Rome.)

[LiftLockCouple]

This past Nov I travelled BA ( Toronto - Marseille ) and connected T5 - T1 at LHR. No passport control but the 90 min ( incl airside bus) connection was to tight. It is a legal connection but does not allow for any delays along the connection route between terminals. If the connection is within the same terminal, no problem. The flight from T1 to Marseille was boarding when we got there, 15 mins later we were pushing back. On top of that my checked baggage did not make it to Marseille with me, it was still in LHR. My two traveling companions did get their baggage. Of the checked bags, mine was the smallest and lightest. Following the 11AM Wed morning arrival in Marseille I received my bag at 2PM on Friday at our location 90 mins from Marseille.

I have no experience at CDG so cannot comment.

[Twickenham]

There would be no passport control or customs at LHR; the UK is not within the Schengen zone. It would be an airside connection, with only a security check. This would NOT be the case at CDG, where the OP would have to go through passport control as France IS a Schengen country, like Italy.

 

(Note in either case bag claim and customs would be in Rome.)

 

A nice man in an official uniform at LHR asked to see my passport. Mine was not to ask why... :D

[Zach1213]

A nice man in an official uniform at LHR asked to see my passport. Mine was not to ask why... :D

 

 

Getting your passport checked to make sure you have the proper documentation to enter your destination country is different than immigration/passport control.

[QuattroRomeo]

Thanks to all for your help regarding layovers! I have re-checked all the airlines that I could. Air Transat club class timetable is not available for Oct-Nov. The ones that seem okay for the dates and arrival times, plus better seating, have longer, sometimes much longer, layovers:

 

Air France = 19:40-8:05-13:25-15:30 thru CDG

British Airways = 19:40-6:25-10:35-14:05 thru LHR

KLM = 19:30-7:45-9:50-12:05 thru AMS

 

Return is a different story, but I might just book a different airline than the one heading out, for optimum times. At least I feel much more comfortable with this as a short-list for heading to Rome!

[TJW]

Since you're in the Niagara region, have you considered flying BUF to JFK and a direct to FCO? Alitalia has introduced "premium economy".

 

Jet Blue has a number of flights to JFK and the only hassle is transferring terminals with luggage but the shuttle trains are easy to use.

 

Terry

[QuattroRomeo]

Thanks TJW, yes we did consider Buffalo airport, as we always use JetBlue for our Florida cruises. The transatlantic flights do not seem to be nearly the time or money saver though, that the FLL flights are!

 

We have decided to try British Airways this trip and are almost even looking forward to the flight! Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

[scottbee]

Thanks TJW, yes we did consider Buffalo airport, as we always use JetBlue for our Florida cruises. The transatlantic flights do not seem to be nearly the time or money saver though, that the FLL flights are!

 

We have decided to try British Airways this trip and are almost even looking forward to the flight! Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

 

The reason that BUF-FLL vs YYZ-FLL is a savings, is you avoid all of the US/Canadian (although mostly US) taxes on international flights such as customs,immigration and agriculture inspection fees, plus the extra charges the airport puts on because the US require major Canadian airports to have dedicated US departure wings w/ pre-clearance. Driving across the border (for free) avoids all these extra fees

 

US-Europe and Canada-Europe are both international, so it's a much more level playing field.

[skf]

I've never had a complaint about Air Canada's seats

We flew AC to Rome (thru Montreal, a slightly shorter flight than Toronto) and were very pleased.

A two-hour layover in Frankfurt would be better than only one hour in London, which may be too tight.

Steve

[FawnRiver]

You should also consider Air Transat Club Class. Often a little less than other airlines premium economy.

 

We flew to Gatwick in Club class and the service was excellent and the seats were very comfortable and roomy. We would fly with them again, but avoid the third row, middle set of seats (old seating set up). DH sat on the end and he kept getting jostled by people going past, I should have given him my middle seat so he could have had a chance at a better nights sleep (I can't sleep on planes regardless).

[thechicagoans]

Please be aware that KLM just offers extra legroom. I have done it before for ORD - AMS and it was nice. AMS is probably the best European airport to connect in other than TXL (Berlin).

 

Have fun on BA and learn about how to maximize Avoid points for short trips on American Airlines. ORD - YUL is often $700+ but only 15,000 Avoid and $57.50.

[Zach1213]

Please be aware that KLM just offers extra legroom. I have done it before for ORD - AMS and it was nice. AMS is probably the best European airport to connect in other than TXL (Berlin).

 

Have fun on BA and learn about how to maximize Avoid points for short trips on American Airlines. ORD - YUL is often $700+ but only 15,000 Avoid and $57.50.

 

Munich all the way!

 

Munich! Munich! Munich! Munich!

[QuattroRomeo]

Just thought I would come back and thank everyone who helped us decide on flights to Rome, for our November cruise! We very much enjoyed BA's premium economy flights..(Heathrow itself, not so much..!)

 

Now to decide on what to do for Copenhagen next year!

Thanks again.

[richstowe]

Just thought I would come back and thank everyone who helped us decide on flights to Rome, for our November cruise! We very much enjoyed BA's premium economy flights..(Heathrow itself, not so much..!)

 

Now to decide on what to do for Copenhagen next year!

Thanks again.

Does this mean you choose to fly BA with a London stopover rather then fly direct

to Rome with AC or whoever ? I try to fly direct if at all possible.