Veendam Norovirus Problem?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks, definitely feeling much better. Antibiotics got the pneumonia under control and I also got good news that one of the masses in my lungs we had been concerned about being new cancer went away. :)

I've spent so much time at the hospital this last month for scans, appointments and such that when I did get a fever no one even blinked until I was 6 days into it and still not getting better. My doctor was out with a very high fever as well and he had been taking his turn on rounds in the oncology group, when I saw him on Wednesday I actually lectured him about working sick and told him to go home... he looked about as good as I felt. Last week was a mess for so many places.

 

That is very good news.

[innlady1]

Anyone else think it ridiculous the way news stations jump all over any reports of Noro like virus on a cruise ship? They rarely mention it in a nursing home, dormitory, day care center, school, gym, hotel or anywhere but cruise ships.

 

I agree. It is ridiculous that the cruise industry is always the target.

[mamaofami]

I wonder if hotels, schools, day care centers, etc. have to report it?

[Krazy Kruizers]

That is a good question.

We have had schools completely shut down and be thoroughly cleaned for a couple of days. Even some nursing homes and hospitals restricted people from their facilities because of huge numbers of sick patients.

[dr.dawg]

mamaofami, no they don't under many circumstances, but cruise ships which are foreign-flagged must report noro to the cdc if more than five percent of passengers are confirmed with the illness. 114 out of, say, 1200 pax is a lot more than 5 percent. news sources monitor cdc.

[troywest]

We all benefit from the publicity and the media attention.

 

It motivates the cruise lines to try and "clean up" their acts.

 

Also, the CDC public information helps those wanting to avoid problems steer away from problem ships. (By way of example, anyone considering the Veendam who bothered to check the CDC web site, would find that it had a history that included recent failing test scores as well as other norovirus outbreaks.) I'd have picked another ship.

 

Norovirus is caused by a combination of passenger and cruiseline indifference. Passengers will push the elevator button, (usually very highly contaminated), go to the buffet area - and without washing their hands- handle serving tools that will then contaminate other passengers.

 

Cruiselines will keep their dining areas too warm. Usually to save fuel, (but when asked they'll say women complain it's too cold), most restaurant equipment is designed to operate at 20 degrees Celsius - about 68 degrees Fahrenheit. When you go to a major shoreside buffet - think Las Vegas - or even Golden Corral, it will be 68 degrees. Some ship buffets will be 78 or 80 degrees - incubators for disease.

 

Then there's the staff - some passenger will ask a member of the staff cleaning garbage from the tables to bring an ice tea. The ice tea will be delivered by the staff person by holding the rim, and the passenger will drink from the rim & not use a straw. (Just watch for 10 or 15 minutes - you'll see it happen).

 

My view: after a few more incidents, cruiselines during their "lifeboat drills" will spend less time fussing over lifejackets - a waste of time- and more time on sanitation and health issues.

[RuthC]

We all benefit from the publicity and the media attention.

 

It motivates the cruise lines to try and "clean up" their acts.

If what you say is true, then wouldn't it also be in everyone's best interest if schools, hospitals, nursing homes, and other institutions be required to report outbreaks of noro to the CDC, also?

Shouldn't those places also have media attention, and "clean up their acts", too? Why should they be exempt?

[mrsraggy]

My son and I came down with the Norovirus on a Sea Princess cruise in 2011. I have not been on a cruise since. I realize the percentage of passengers who become ill is very small, but it was the most miserable 4 days of our lives. Confined to an inside cabin. We about went out of our minds.

 

We are booked on a 2 week cruise this summer. Here's hoping everyone remains healthy throughout the voyage!

 

Wishing you all healthy trips.

 

Karin:)

[POA1]

If what you say is true, then wouldn't it also be in everyone's best interest if schools, hospitals, nursing homes, and other institutions be required to report outbreaks of noro to the CDC, also?

Shouldn't those places also have media attention, and "clean up their acts", too? Why should they be exempt?

 

Look at the CDC link I posted earlier in the thread. Cruise ships are pretty far down the list. A bunch of the other assertions are hooey . It's a virus. Primary transmission medium is food. Temperatures have little to do with it - at least the temperatures that people comfortably operate in.

 

If you don't want to get sick, stay away from people. Sterilize your environment.

[hammerman]

As Ruth suggests, it is important that all health care facilities report these outbreaks.

 

With a few exceptions, this reporting is mandated under state laws. For example, for New York's requirements, see:

 

https://www.health.ny.gov/professionals/diseases/reporting/communicable/

 

As Troy pointed out, the reporting and the media attention are what motivate efforts to clean up. This is as true for health care facilities as for cruise ships.

 

Both the health care industries and the cruise industry have very powerful lobbiests who spend lots of money "buying" politicians. Don't count on regulations to make any of these industries responsible.

[Marigold252]

We all benefit from the publicity and the media attention.

 

It motivates the cruise lines to try and "clean up" their acts.

 

Also, the CDC public information helps those wanting to avoid problems steer away from problem ships. (By way of example, anyone considering the Veendam who bothered to check the CDC web site, would find that it had a history that included recent failing test scores as well as other norovirus outbreaks.) I'd have picked another ship.

 

Norovirus is caused by a combination of passenger and cruiseline indifference. Passengers will push the elevator button, (usually very highly contaminated), go to the buffet area - and without washing their hands- handle serving tools that will then contaminate other passengers.

 

Cruiselines will keep their dining areas too warm. Usually to save fuel, (but when asked they'll say women complain it's too cold), most restaurant equipment is designed to operate at 20 degrees Celsius - about 68 degrees Fahrenheit. When you go to a major shoreside buffet - think Las Vegas - or even Golden Corral, it will be 68 degrees. Some ship buffets will be 78 or 80 degrees - incubators for disease.

 

Then there's the staff - some passenger will ask a member of the staff cleaning garbage from the tables to bring an ice tea. The ice tea will be delivered by the staff person by holding the rim, and the passenger will drink from the rim & not use a straw. (Just watch for 10 or 15 minutes - you'll see it happen).

 

My view: after a few more incidents, cruiselines during their "lifeboat drills" will spend less time fussing over lifejackets - a waste of time- and more time on sanitation and health issues.

 

Troy, have you ever seen any of this behavior by a HAL staff member? I bet not. Passengers, yes; staff, no. I was on this cruise and the staff did an outstanding job trying to halt the spread of whatever caused it and Captain Peter Bos continually reminded the pax by way of the pa system the need for washing hands. Early in the outbreak he berated us for how few had used the handwashing stations in the Lido. He even suggested we not put any food in our mouth by hand but to always use a fork or spoon. Except for a couple of days in the beginning, we were served all food and drink by the staff. The hand rails and elevators were washed down hourly and the hallways on the passenger decks every evening. We had to wear plastic gloves to touch merchandise. Passengers who admitted being sick were quarantined in their cabins for at least 48 hours depending on symptoms. The two people I knew who got sick were actually only ill for a few hours. We also had some rough seas a couple of days so I am sure a few of the cases were probably from motion sickness. Also, there were a lot of elderly people on board and the captain said that antacids (commonly taken by older people) keep the natural stomach acids from killing the virus. So I wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions just yet.

 

We had a wonderful cruise, the Panama Canal was amazing and there was no rain for the entire two weeks!

[sammygoose]

Anyone else think it ridiculous the way news stations jump all over any reports of Noro like virus on a cruise ship? They rarely mention it in a nursing home, dormitory, day care center, school, gym, hotel or anywhere but cruise ships.

 

Sail, I think this is an EXCELLENT question. My question is and I really hope that someone responds is:

land based resorts have the same type of guest turn over and yes those guests mainly take airplanes into those resorts. So why do cruise ships gets such a bad rap? Why aren't land based resorts targeted in the news like cruise ships?

I really want to know!

[cbr663]

We have seen things on the dam ships that left us shaking our heads. One night in the MDR we watched the wine steward take the same set of wine glasses and move them to 4 different tables. Twice we watched passengers sit down, move the glasses to one side on their tables, and then the wine steward remove them to her station and then within minutes place them on another table. Noro is known to surfaces on hard surfaces and I would have expected that once someone sat at a table, all cutlery and glasses would be washed again. Not so. The next time you are in the MDR try and think of how many people have touched your plate or glass.

 

We also sat one night by a wait station in the MDR and watched the waiter pull a pile of clean table clothes from the cupboard and lay them on the floor while he was searching for something else.

 

On our last cruise, we witnessed a passenger drop a plate in the Lido. Glass and food went everywhere and I was shocked that they did not remove all the food from the line. They just cleaned it all up and continued serving.

[cbr663]

Sail, I think this is an EXCELLENT question. My question is and I really hope that someone responds is:

land based resorts have the same type of guest turn over and yes those guests mainly take airplanes into those resorts. So why do cruise ships gets such a bad rap? Why aren't land based resorts targeted in the news like cruise ships?

I really want to know!

 

I think that one of the reasons is that it is really difficult for passengers to leave a ship if there is an outbreak. It is relatively easy on land to move to another hotel, but that option is rarely available when you are at sea. Even waiting to get to the next port and then exiting the ship can be cost prohibitive for many.

 

This is one of the major issues with crime on ships. If you are the victim of a crime while onboard, you cannot call 911 or call the police. You are at the mercy of the cruise line and must comply with their policies and procedures.

 

For most passengers, their options are very limited when illness or disaster strikes while on a ship.

[Salacia]

We all benefit from the publicity and the media attention.

 

It motivates the cruise lines to try and "clean up" their acts.

 

Also, the CDC public information helps those wanting to avoid problems steer away from problem ships. (By way of example, anyone considering the Veendam who bothered to check the CDC web site, would find that it had a history that included recent failing test scores as well as other norovirus outbreaks.) I'd have picked another ship.

 

Norovirus is caused by a combination of passenger and cruiseline indifference. Passengers will push the elevator button, (usually very highly contaminated), go to the buffet area - and without washing their hands- handle serving tools that will then contaminate other passengers.

 

Cruiselines will keep their dining areas too warm. Usually to save fuel, (but when asked they'll say women complain it's too cold), most restaurant equipment is designed to operate at 20 degrees Celsius - about 68 degrees Fahrenheit. When you go to a major shoreside buffet - think Las Vegas - or even Golden Corral, it will be 68 degrees. Some ship buffets will be 78 or 80 degrees - incubators for disease.

 

Then there's the staff - some passenger will ask a member of the staff cleaning garbage from the tables to bring an ice tea. The ice tea will be delivered by the staff person by holding the rim, and the passenger will drink from the rim & not use a straw. (Just watch for 10 or 15 minutes - you'll see it happen).

 

My view: after a few more incidents, cruiselines during their "lifeboat drills" will spend less time fussing over lifejackets - a waste of time- and more time on sanitation and health issues.

 

Troywest, not that I disagree with your comments in general, but I question your statement regarding Veendam's "recent failing test scores". As I mentioned previously on this thread, the most recent CDC inspection of the Veendam was 1/15/2014 and the score was 99. The previous inspection scores were 96 (8/24/1013) and 92 (10/12/2012). Veendam failed the inspection on August 19, 2012 with a well deserved failing score of 77.

 

I agree that passengers should check the CDC website for factual information, as you suggested

 

Regards,

Salacia

Edited February 26, 2014 by Salacia

[sherilyn70]

Also, the CDC public information helps those wanting to avoid problems steer away from problem ships. (By way of example, anyone considering the Veendam who bothered to check the CDC web site, would find that it had a history that included recent failing test scores as well as other norovirus outbreaks.) I'd have picked another ship.

I guess our definitions of "recent" are different from each others. I don't consider 2012 "recent" when it comes to a health score since several others have been reported as good since then. They had only 1 failing inspection since 1996... oh my!! As for noro outbreaks, I did check the CDC first and 3 outbreaks (including this current one) since 2008? That's pretty good in my opinion. I got noro in 2012 Royal Caribbean... should I avoid them or Oasis from now on as well based on that data?

 

I'm really scared for my health in June at this point. :rolleyes:

[whogo]

Anyone else think it ridiculous the way news stations jump all over any reports of Noro like virus on a cruise ship? They rarely mention it in a nursing home, dormitory, day care center, school, gym, hotel or anywhere but cruise ships.

Not ridiculous at all. Norovirus outbreaks are in the news regularly, but nobody outside of Texas cares about an Austin outbreak: http://kxan.com/2014/02/25/norovirus-outbreaks-on-the-rise-in-austin-area/

 

Nobody outside of North Carolina cares about an outbreak in Charlotte: http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-norovirus-outbreaks-nursing-homes/ndcHY/

 

Nobody outside the area cares about an outbreak in Memphis: http://wreg.com/2014/02/24/five-cases-of-norovirus-confirmed/

[cbr663]

Noro outbreaks are regularly reported in Canada also. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/norovirus-hits-st-john-s-nursing-home-1.878866

 

I happen to pay attention to any news regarding this senior's home as I have family members that reside there.

[cbr663]

I guess our definitions of "recent" are different from each others. I don't consider 2012 "recent" when it comes to a health score since several others have been reported as good since then. They had only 1 failing inspection since 1996... oh my!! As for noro outbreaks, I did check the CDC first and 3 outbreaks (including this current one) since 2008? That's pretty good in my opinion. I got noro in 2012 Royal Caribbean... should I avoid them or Oasis from now on as well based on that data?

 

I'm really scared for my health in June at this point. :rolleyes:

 

Please keep in mind that the CDC only reports an outbreak as occurring once a certain percentage or passengers or crew have been reported. Numbers below this percentage may not warrant being identified as an outbreak, but may cause concern for fellow passengers. For instance, I know of someone who just retuned from a cruise where noro was present in a number of passengers but has yet to be reported by the CDC.

 

You should be very concerned about your health. I would suggest that you inform yourself of the risks and dangers of noro from the CDC website and take all necessary precautions. For our upcoming cruise, this means disinfecting our cabin as soon as we enter, avoiding the elevators, sitting away from crowds, trying not to touch anything like hand rails, not eating greens, fruits and shell fish, washing our hands a lot, avoiding the pools, hot tubs and deck lounge chairs, and inquiring with the hotel services if we can limit the number of times that housekeeping enters our cabin (as cruise staff can carry the virus also).

 

We have been lucky so far that we haven't contracted it on any of our cruises, so I am confident that our extra steps will help.

[igraf]

A bit overly dramatic. I face the same situation every time some inconsiderate person shows up at work sick because they don't want to use a vacation day and stay at home.

 

Ships have security personal and even a holding cell. I would say that security on a ship is much better than on land. I don't know you think that there would be no one responding to a serious crime situation on a ship.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

I think that one of the reasons is that it is really difficult for passengers to leave a ship if there is an outbreak. It is relatively easy on land to move to another hotel, but that option is rarely available when you are at sea. Even waiting to get to the next port and then exiting the ship can be cost prohibitive for many.

 

This is one of the major issues with crime on ships. If you are the victim of a crime while onboard, you cannot call 911 or call the police. You are at the mercy of the cruise line and must comply with their policies and procedures.

 

For most passengers, their options are very limited when illness or disaster strikes while on a ship.

[igraf]

Here is the latest news regarding the norovirus outbreak on the Veendam:

 

http://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/holland-americas-veendam-cleared-after-outbreak.html?u=7CA10471-E27E-4793-AA42-F81FCE99B705

 

We are going on the next Veendam voyage. Glad to hear that the problem has been cleared up.

 

igraf

[sjn911]

We have lost young adults in my tiny area to the flu this year from school system my sisters teach in..I am so glad that this thread is sanity..and yes nice to know if your ship has recently had a noro etc. bug but.......just use good shared space precautions..God bless all here fighting and surving any illness...Sarah

Edited March 1, 2014 by sjn911

[BruceMuzz]

EVERY - and I mean EVERY - single ship sailing from a US port this time of year has passengers with Norovirus onboard.

Some of them know they have it and are trying to hide it; some of them caught it on the airplane or in the hotel on their way to the ship and do not yet have any symptoms.

 

My colleagues at CDC estimate that EVERY cruise ship that sails from a US port at any time of the year has an average of 60 passengers with Norovirus onboard.

 

It is only because the ships are so carefully cleaned that we all do not come down with it.

[serendipity1499]

If what you say is true, then wouldn't it also be in everyone's best interest if schools, hospitals, nursing homes, and other institutions be required to report outbreaks of noro to the CDC, also?

Shouldn't those places also have media attention, and "clean up their acts", too? Why should they be exempt?

 

In some states Nursing homes are required to report such outbreaks.. Its probably up to individual State Health Depts. to issue these orders..

 

Just read on-line about several nursing homes in the Carolinas closing doors to guests & family of residents..

 

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-norovirus-outbreaks-nursing-homes/ndcHY/

 

Also one of our local Nursing Homes has been closed due to Noro:

 

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/24855709/fort-myers-facility-closed-due-to-norovirus#.UxIYBmePI5s

 

Betty

Edited March 1, 2014 by serendipity1499

[jtl513]

EVERY - and I mean EVERY - single ship sailing from a US port this time of year has passengers with Norovirus onboard.

How's the record for European ports ... specifically Copenhagen? And what is the lowest period of occurrence, mid-summer?